Gods Own Party Can’t Get Over Same Sex Marriage

[TheProgressivePatriot]

if liberals and LGBT argue for INCLUSION of same sex and transgender belief expression and practice,
then isn't it fair to open the door for Christian prayer, spiritual healing, and other faith based
beliefs and expressions in public schools and institutions?

No! That is ridiculous for the reasons that I have stated

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Shouldn't all creeds be treated equally under law?
Instead of endorsing one, rejecting the other, and penalizing
people of the other belief?

1. LGBT is NOT a creed
2.People are not penalized FOR BELIEFS
3 People are penalized for BEHAVIOR
4. The first amendment has to do with freedom of religion among other things ..We have a system of secular law and LGBT issues are not religious issues as far as the law is concerned. Your apparent position that if we are to protect LGBT rights, we must also allow religion to run amok in public places is absurd.

 

[EGR one]

You know, there are several things here......................

First off, Leviticus is actually a manual for the Jewish priests in the Temple. And yeah, Leviticus is going to say that if a man lies with another man, it's an abomination because if you are a priest in the Temple, you are supposed to be focused on your duties as a priest, not shagging each other in the back room. I mean, the Catholics tried it, and look how well it worked out for them.

As far as homosexuality being a "sin"? Really? There are only 2 places in the Bible where I am aware of God giving mankind commandments, and both of them say basically the same thing. That is either the 7 Noahide Commandments or the 10 Commandments given to Moses. I challenge anyone to show me where there is a commandment against homosexuality. For that matter, I challenge anyone to show me a Bible verse that actually calls homosexuality a "sin". There aren't any.

So, you good Christians on here are totally against someone being gay, but you are cool with someone who steps out on his wife who has just given birth to have a 6 month affair with a porno star? Some values you guys have there.

I am a Christian, not a good one, and I interpret the Bible as I see fit to interpret it. I am also an American, a fairly good one, and I believe strongly in religious freedom, and freedom of speech.

Christian, or not, you have the right to interpret any book, any way you see fit. Why you see a need to justify yourself, and/or your religion to others, is beyond my understanding.

 

[EGR one]

f you do not want to believe that God considers homosexuality to be an abomination, then, have at it. You have the religious freedom to believe what ever you want to believe. You do not have the right to tell the rest of us what to believe, or not to believe.

No one is telling you what to believe. No one is so foolish as to think that they can tell you what to believe . I do not care what you believe What you believe goes on between your two ears and unless someone id accomplished in some sort of advanced mind control , they cant change that. What I care about is how those beliefs translate into how you treat other people. If your behavior emanating from those beliefs result in discrimination and marginalization of other in the name of your god , I do indeed have a problem with that. If you think that your beliefs should determine how others love and live, the YOU have a problem

Live and let live is how I think of and treat other people. I am also convinced that my views on religion, politics and public policy, have as much right in the public square as yours do. What you do in your own home is your business. What you do in forming public policy is as much my business as it is yours.

Nor, do I care whether the union of two gays is called marriage or civil union. It takes no skin off my back. However, I suspect that the homosexual crowd's insistence on the word marriage has more to do with forcing acceptance of homosexuality than creating equity with bisexual marriage.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

f you do not want to believe that God considers homosexuality to be an abomination, then, have at it. You have the religious freedom to believe what ever you want to believe. You do not have the right to tell the rest of us what to believe, or not to believe.

No one is telling you what to believe. No one is so foolish as to think that they can tell you what to believe . I do not care what you believe What you believe goes on between your two ears and unless someone id accomplished in some sort of advanced mind control , they cant change that. What I care about is how those beliefs translate into how you treat other people. If your behavior emanating from those beliefs result in discrimination and marginalization of other in the name of your god , I do indeed have a problem with that. If you think that your beliefs should determine how others love and live, the YOU have a problem

Live and let live is how I think of and treat other people. I am also convinced that my views on religion, politics and public policy, have as much right in the public square as yours do. What you do in your own home is your business. What you do in forming public policy is as much my business as it is yours.

Nor, do I care whether the union of two gays is called marriage or civil union. It takes no skin off my back. However, I suspect that the homosexual crowd's insistence on the word marriage has more to do with forcing acceptance of homosexuality than creating equity with bisexual marriage.

You were doing so well until the last line: "I suspect that the homosexual crowd's insistence on the word marriage has more to do with forcing acceptance of homosexuality than creating equity " Why EXACTLY do you suspect that? Sure, gay folks want to be accepted, but they are also smart enough to know that they cannot force acceptance and accept the fact that not everyone will be accepting. Again, it is about how people treat one another, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[emilynghiem]

Shouldn't all creeds be treated equally under law?
Instead of endorsing one, rejecting the other, and penalizing
people of the other belief?

1. LGBT is NOT a creed
2.People are not penalized FOR BELIEFS
3 People are penalized for BEHAVIOR
4. The first amendment has to do with freedom of religion among other things ..We have a system of secular law and LGBT issues are not religious issues as far as the law is concerned. Your apparent position that if we are to protect LGBT rights, we must also allow religion to run amok in public places is absurd.

Dear TheProgressivePatriot
Beliefs about LGBT orientation being either
* natural
* unnatural
* changeable BEHAVIOR
* unchangeable and/or inborn
are all FAITH BASED and NOT proven by science.

They are all subjective and personal choices what to believe
very similar to spiritual or religious affiliations and identity.

Do you understand this is not proven by science?

Do you understand that transgender identity and homosexual orientation
have NOT been proven genetic (the most I've seen is possibly
proving a correlation between certain hormonal conditions
in the womb during neural development that COULD explain it,
but this could also be contested by the lack of matching
orientation in identical twins which points to social factors).

So TPP
if you BELIEVE that LGBT orientation is natural or unnatural
that's already a faith based BELIEF.

If you build an entire policy out of it that
"other people who promote the opposite"
are teaching false propaganda, then it
becomes much like a RELIGIOUS war between denominations
or factions, both pushing THEIR beliefs "as a policy" over the other group
they deem as a "Cult".

Then if you get whole PARTIES involved in taking sides
in an ideological WAR it becomes Political Religions vowing
to attack the members of the other group.

So yes TPP it has become a war of creeds.
BOTH discriminating against people of the OTHER creed.
Parties have gotten out of control like religions going to war to dominate the other
and try to convert "the whole nation" to their political creed by tearing down the other!

 

[flacaltenn]

being LGBT is not a belief- simply put it is what people are, For those that reason, trying to tie LGBT issues to the first amendment is absurd .

That's certainly a debatable assertion. What does the Q stand for in LGBTQ? What is this about Identifying as something rather than BEING something? Waking up and DECLARING a gender is not BEING a gender. Just as declaring yourself another race doesn't make it so.

DOn't push the idea that all those "lifestyles" are well determined. Most of them are not clear as in being BI-SEXUAL which is likely the LARGEST segment of LGBT members. Nor are they PERMANENT as seen by the numbers of folks "transitioning" from one state to another..

 

[emilynghiem]

being LGBT is not a belief- simply put it is what people are, For those that reason, trying to tie LGBT issues to the first amendment is absurd .

That's certainly a debatable assertion. What does the Q stand for in LGBTQ? What is this about Identifying as something rather than BEING something? Waking up and DECLARING a gender is not BEING a gender. Just as declaring yourself another race doesn't make it so.

DOn't push the idea that all those "lifestyles" are well determined. Most of them are not clear as in being BI-SEXUAL which is likely the LARGEST segment of LGBT members. Nor are they PERMANENT as seen by the numbers of folks "transitioning" from one state to another..

Thanks flacaltenn
Dear TheProgressivePatriot
AGREED people are!
And so are people Christian if they just are. Atheist if that's how they are. Buddhist or Muslim if that's their inherent identity. Liberal or Conservative.

All these identities and their related creeds can be treated with equal protection and respect by leaving them to free choice and not establishing or endorsing any of them through govt.

flacaltenn and you both demonstrate you have your own beliefs about what is going on with LGBT minded people, and so do I. This FURTHER demonstrates the importance of recognizing equal religious freedom and CHOICE for all three of us to receive equal treatment under law. None of us should be subjected to govt endorsing one of our viewpoints on LGBT and unequally discriminating against the other two beliefs.

Exactly!!!
Thank you BOTH for demonstrating by example how diverse the beliefs are on these issues that it isn't just two sided

 

[Lysistrata]

The idea that being LGBT is a "belief" is stupid beyond all imagining. People don't choose it. It's not a "side" in any ideological battle. People, do, however, choose their religions, some very poorly. If the people who make these poor choices "believe" as they do, why can't they change instead of trying to force LGBTs to?

 

[irosie91]

I suspect that the word

This word 'abomination', which the religious nutters keep bleating first appeared in the King James translation, and, like the 'virgin birth', is a clear mistranslation, and a corruption of the intent of the authors.
From Does the Bible Really Call Homosexuality an “Abomination”?
The word “abomination” is found, of course, in the King James translation of Leviticus 18:22, a translation which reads, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.” Yet this is a thoroughly misleading rendition of the word toevah, which, while we may not know exactly what it means, definitely does not mean “abomination".....
Deut. 12:31, 13:14, 17:4, 27:15, and 32:16 further identify idolatry, child sacrifice, witchcraft, and other “foreign” practices as toevah, and Deut. 20:18 says that avoiding toevah justifies the genocide of the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanaites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. So, toevah is serious, but it is serious as a particular class of cultic offense: a transgression of national boundary. It is certainly not “abomination.”

The general consensus of scholars (not bible-study pundits) is that the word means 'ritually impure', and is just another piece of religious propaganda.

Yeah except homosexuality is called a sin throughout the Bible.

Moron

actually----TOEVAH ----I think---means something with which
jews may not involve themselves----because it is some nasty
stuff which lousy people---like those friggen' Babylonians do.
Getting a tattoo is toevah which is tantamount to acting like
a barbarian. ----also no mummification----those lousy egytians do it. -------and homosexuality? well----should we bring up the case of those *** Persians and Greeks?

for Sassy, et al. Hubby translates the word "TOEVAH" as
"DISGUSTING" ----he does classical Hebrew well

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I suspect that the word

This word 'abomination', which the religious nutters keep bleating first appeared in the King James translation, and, like the 'virgin birth', is a clear mistranslation, and a corruption of the intent of the authors.
From Does the Bible Really Call Homosexuality an “Abomination”?
The word “abomination” is found, of course, in the King James translation of Leviticus 18:22, a translation which reads, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.” Yet this is a thoroughly misleading rendition of the word toevah, which, while we may not know exactly what it means, definitely does not mean “abomination".....
Deut. 12:31, 13:14, 17:4, 27:15, and 32:16 further identify idolatry, child sacrifice, witchcraft, and other “foreign” practices as toevah, and Deut. 20:18 says that avoiding toevah justifies the genocide of the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanaites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites. So, toevah is serious, but it is serious as a particular class of cultic offense: a transgression of national boundary. It is certainly not “abomination.”

The general consensus of scholars (not bible-study pundits) is that the word means 'ritually impure', and is just another piece of religious propaganda.

Yeah except homosexuality is called a sin throughout the Bible.

Moron

actually----TOEVAH ----I think---means something with which
jews may not involve themselves----because it is some nasty
stuff which lousy people---like those friggen' Babylonians do.
Getting a tattoo is toevah which is tantamount to acting like
a barbarian. ----also no mummification----those lousy egytians do it. -------and homosexuality? well----should we bring up the case of those *** Persians and Greeks?

for Sassy, et al. Hubby translates the word "TOEVAH" as
"DISGUSTING" ----he does classical Hebrew well

He wouldn't be wrong...it's disgsuting alright

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Just as they have been working to water down Roe v. Wade , with restrictions on abortion, they continue to concern themselves with another, more recent decision, Obergfelle v Hodges which made same sex marriage the law of the land.

They are obsessed with people private lives and social issues, while purporting to be the party of freedom and individual responsibility.

While the country is facing numerous threats and problems both foreign and domestic, they can’t keep their noses out of people’s bedrooms. While they are hell bent on allowing Wall Street to run amok, and letting corporations pollute the planet, women, gays and other who they disapprove of must be tightly controlled.

While they are not actively seeking to overturn Obergefell- that know that even with a conservative SCOTUS- it would be a long road to hoe. So as with Roe, they are finding ways to water down the gains that have been made with respect to choice, privacy, and equality. Consider:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-signorile-georgia-adoption_us_5a9c23e7e4b0a0ba4ad45681

Georgia is on its way to creating a law that would allow state-funded adoption agencies to turn away LGBTQ couples ― or, more specifically, to turn away any parents the agencies don’t approve of based on religious beliefs.

Make no mistake: This anti-LGBTQ adoption bill is part of a wide-reaching plan by religious conservatives ― backed by President Donald Trump and his administration ― to turn same-sex marriage into second-class marriage with a longer-term goal of overturning federal marriage rights for gays and lesbians entirely.

Adoption is only one of several fronts on which they are attacking:

By getting courts to rule that wedding-related businesses can turn away gay couples based on the business owners’ religious beliefs, by allowing governments to refuse to give the same benefits to spouses within same-sex marriages as they do to those within opposite-sex marriages, and by allowing adoption agencies to say no to LGBTQ parents.

I

t is really in those three major areas- adoption, public accommodation, and benefits- that equality is being assailed. I do not believe for a Nano second that this is about religion or religious freedom. It’s about bigotry-plain and simple. It is not about concern for the children either. It is about bigotry.

Furthermore, in the Huston Texas case where the Texas Supreme Court rules that married same sex couples on the city payroll were not necessarily entitle to employee benefits is clearly bigotry because it has nothing to do with religion and clearly is harmful to the children of those couples.

Is that what God would want? These issues, along wth the myriad of so call "bathroom bills " aimed at trans people make it clear that the GOP is hell bent on making life as difficult as possible for LGBT people in order to appease the religious right.

Ah, another day and another thread from our resident closet homosexual. Unfortunately, that closet has a screen door!

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

being LGBT is not a belief- simply put it is what people are, For those that reason, trying to tie LGBT issues to the first amendment is absurd .

That's certainly a debatable assertion. What does the Q stand for in LGBTQ? What is this about Identifying as something rather than BEING something? Waking up and DECLARING a gender is not BEING a gender. Just as declaring yourself another race doesn't make it so.

DOn't push the idea that all those "lifestyles" are well determined. Most of them are not clear as in being BI-SEXUAL which is likely the LARGEST segment of LGBT members. Nor are they PERMANENT as seen by the numbers of folks "transitioning" from one state to another..

So, you are also equating religion or faith with gender identity and sexual orientation? And why ? Because some people are seemingly gender fluid and others may change or not clearly and consistently adhere to a particular sexual preference? While on the surface, I will say that there appears to be certain similarities to “faith,” to say that they are the same is to dumbs down the issue and willfully ignore the enormous complexities of human sexuality. While the science is in it’s infancy there is strong evidence -although not proof- that there is a biological / genetic component to both sexual orientation and gender identity. I could provide links to discussions about what is known, and the research that supports it, but I do believe that it would be lost on you.

These are people who are experiencing internal struggles not of their making. While there may be a few who “wake up” and on a whim decide that they are another gender, the vast majority they are being swept along a path that is not yet well understood and that should be respected. Let me remind you that there are also people who “wake up” and decide that they are another religion, and in far greater numbers- but according to you people – they must be afforded the utmost respect for their choice, while viewing sexuality as something frivolous.

I will also point out that during the long court fight for marriage equality, amidst all of the bizarre and bogus issues that were raised by the states defending the marriage bans, one thing that was never raised was the idea that sexuality is a choice. The courts consistently treat it as an “innate and immutable characteristic- never allowing the issue of why someone is gay into the proceedings.

But hey, if you people want to treat it as a “faith” that’s fine with me. We can then extent first amendment rights to LQBTQ people

PS: I find it interesting that while you have taken the time to jump in here, you seem to be unable to deal with the questions that I posed to you in # 108 challenging your absurd theory that calling same sec marriage “marriage” has caused widespread legal problems and has put women at risk of domestic violence

 

[PredFan]

Just as they have been working to water down Roe v. Wade , with restrictions on abortion, they continue to concern themselves with another, more recent decision, Obergfelle v Hodges which made same sex marriage the law of the land.

They are obsessed with people private lives and social issues, while purporting to be the party of freedom and individual responsibility.

While the country is facing numerous threats and problems both foreign and domestic, they can’t keep their noses out of people’s bedrooms. While they are hell bent on allowing Wall Street to run amok, and letting corporations pollute the planet, women, gays and other who they disapprove of must be tightly controlled.

While they are not actively seeking to overturn Obergefell- that know that even with a conservative SCOTUS- it would be a long road to hoe. So as with Roe, they are finding ways to water down the gains that have been made with respect to choice, privacy, and equality. Consider:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-signorile-georgia-adoption_us_5a9c23e7e4b0a0ba4ad45681

Georgia is on its way to creating a law that would allow state-funded adoption agencies to turn away LGBTQ couples ― or, more specifically, to turn away any parents the agencies don’t approve of based on religious beliefs.

Make no mistake: This anti-LGBTQ adoption bill is part of a wide-reaching plan by religious conservatives ― backed by President Donald Trump and his administration ― to turn same-sex marriage into second-class marriage with a longer-term goal of overturning federal marriage rights for gays and lesbians entirely.

Adoption is only one of several fronts on which they are attacking:

By getting courts to rule that wedding-related businesses can turn away gay couples based on the business owners’ religious beliefs, by allowing governments to refuse to give the same benefits to spouses within same-sex marriages as they do to those within opposite-sex marriages, and by allowing adoption agencies to say no to LGBTQ parents.

I

t is really in those three major areas- adoption, public accommodation, and benefits- that equality is being assailed. I do not believe for a Nano second that this is about religion or religious freedom. It’s about bigotry-plain and simple. It is not about concern for the children either. It is about bigotry.

Furthermore, in the Huston Texas case where the Texas Supreme Court rules that married same sex couples on the city payroll were not necessarily entitle to employee benefits is clearly bigotry because it has nothing to do with religion and clearly is harmful to the children of those couples.

Is that what God would want? These issues, along wth the myriad of so call "bathroom bills " aimed at trans people make it clear that the GOP is hell bent on making life as difficult as possible for LGBT people in order to appease the religious right.

We are over it, you idiots can't stop bringing it up.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Shouldn't all creeds be treated equally under law?
Instead of endorsing one, rejecting the other, and penalizing
people of the other belief?

1. LGBT is NOT a creed
2.People are not penalized FOR BELIEFS
3 People are penalized for BEHAVIOR
4. The first amendment has to do with freedom of religion among other things ..We have a system of secular law and LGBT issues are not religious issues as far as the law is concerned. Your apparent position that if we are to protect LGBT rights, we must also allow religion to run amok in public places is absurd.

Dear TheProgressivePatriot
Beliefs about LGBT orientation being either
* natural
* unnatural
* changeable BEHAVIOR
* unchangeable and/or inborn
are all FAITH BASED and NOT proven by science.

They are all subjective and personal choices what to believe
very similar to spiritual or religious affiliations and identity.

Do you understand this is not proven by science?

Do you understand that transgender identity and homosexual orientation
have NOT been proven genetic (the most I've seen is possibly
proving a correlation between certain hormonal conditions
in the womb during neural development that COULD explain it,
but this could also be contested by the lack of matching
orientation in identical twins which points to social factors).

So TPP
if you BELIEVE that LGBT orientation is natural or unnatural
that's already a faith based BELIEF.

If you build an entire policy out of it that
"other people who promote the opposite"
are teaching false propaganda, then it
becomes much like a RELIGIOUS war between denominations
or factions, both pushing THEIR beliefs "as a policy" over the other group
they deem as a "Cult".

Then if you get whole PARTIES involved in taking sides
in an ideological WAR it becomes Political Religions vowing
to attack the members of the other group.

So yes TPP it has become a war of creeds.
BOTH discriminating against people of the OTHER creed.
Parties have gotten out of control like religions going to war to dominate the other
and try to convert "the whole nation" to their political creed by tearing down the other!

While you keep asking me if I understand “this or that” here seems to be much that you don’t understand. Let me direct you to my recent post # 133 directed at another member who is as confused as you are. I’ m not even going to try to decipher this repetitive word salad rant since nothing that I can say seems to sink in. You just blather on blindly about faith rather than actually try to address the points that I made in my last several posts to you

 

[emilynghiem]

being LGBT is not a belief- simply put it is what people are, For those that reason, trying to tie LGBT issues to the first amendment is absurd .

That's certainly a debatable assertion. What does the Q stand for in LGBTQ? What is this about Identifying as something rather than BEING something? Waking up and DECLARING a gender is not BEING a gender. Just as declaring yourself another race doesn't make it so.

DOn't push the idea that all those "lifestyles" are well determined. Most of them are not clear as in being BI-SEXUAL which is likely the LARGEST segment of LGBT members. Nor are they PERMANENT as seen by the numbers of folks "transitioning" from one state to another..

So, you are also equating religion or faith with gender identity and sexual orientation? And why ? Because some people are seemingly gender fluid and others may change or not clearly and consistently adhere to a particular sexual preference? While on the surface, I will say that there appears to be certain similarities to “faith,” to say that they are the same is to dumbs down the issue and willfully ignore the enormous complexities of human sexuality. While the science is in it’s infancy there is strong evidence -although not proof- that there is a biological / genetic component to both sexual orientation and gender identity. I could provide links to discussions about what is known, and the research that supports it, but I do believe that it would be lost on you.

These are people who are experiencing internal struggles not of their making. While there may be a few who “wake up” and on a whim decide that they are another gender, the vast majority they are being swept along a path that is not yet well understood and that should be respected. Let me remind you that there are also people who “wake up” and decide that they are another religion, and in far greater numbers- but according to you people – they must be afforded the utmost respect for their choice, while viewing sexuality as something frivolous.

I will also point out that during the long court fight for marriage equality, amidst all of the bizarre and bogus issues that were raised by the states defending the marriage bans, one thing that was never raised was the idea that sexuality is a choice. The courts consistently treat it as an “innate and immutable characteristic- never allowing the issue of why someone is gay into the proceedings.

But hey, if you people want to treat it as a “faith” that’s fine with me. We can then extent first amendment rights to LQBTQ people

PS: I find it interesting that while you have taken the time to jump in here, you seem to be unable to deal with the questions that I posed to you in # 108 challenging your absurd theory that calling same sec marriage “marriage” has caused widespread legal problems and has put women at risk of domestic violence

Great post TheProgressivePatriot
Thanks for arguing with content and citing substance.

Don't forget to include cases where SOME people have successfully changed orientation after going through deep spiritual healing. Such healing has also been used to change INBORN conditions such as people BORN with cancer "in some cases" or with hereditary tendencies to alcohol or other abuse addictions. And it still works to heal these conditions in SOME cases. Not all are like that, but because some ARE, that shows that SOME can change. If they are caused by internal spiritual conflicts that can be resolved, then it is possible in SOME cases for both the internal and the outward results and behavior to change as well. You can't change someone's genetic RACE, so orientation is not the same as race.

As for treating people's BELIEFS about orientation as faith based,
the point is to PROTECT these by law. You won't find Christians Constitutionalist or Conservatives willing to go against the First Amendment free exercise of religion.
So that would AUTOMATICALLY include and protect anyone's BELIEFS and freedom of exercise and expression. This does NOT require scientific proof, so it's an infalliable argument based on inalienable rights that even the right will not argue with.

Atheists Buddhists anyone may be right or wrong about their faith based beliefs,
and still have Equal Right to them Under Law. Even Constitutionalists have to respect that because it's what they believe and enforce as well.

So that's the best way I've found to defend LGBT beliefs equally as any other.
This allows me to treat all people equally and defend all beliefs, right or wrong,
proven or not, faith based or all of these.

I find even when they are proven they are still faith based.
So by invoking defense and equality by the First Amendment covers all cases, all arguments, all reasons that people believe what they believe or don't believe.

thanks TPP!
PS if homosexuality was genetic, how do you explain the lack of corresponding orientation in identical twins? Why aren't both twins always the same orientation if it's genetic??

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Great post TheProgressivePatriot
Thanks for arguing with content and citing substance.

I think that you're trying to be sarcastic here. Interesting that you should find #133 Informative since I see little evidence that you are learning anything or evolving........

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Don't forget to include cases where SOME people have successfully changed orientation after going through deep spiritual healing. Such healing has also been used to change INBORN conditions such as people BORN with cancer "in some cases" or with hereditary tendencies to alcohol or other abuse addictions

Case in point:

You can't seem to get your head around that fact that gay/ bi/ trans people do not need healing and to equate those people with those who have cancer or addictions is hateful. They not need" healing" They need to insulate themselves for the bigots and the morons who think that they need healing and surround themselves with positive life forces and people whop will support and accept them and help them to find their way wherever it leads. It is one thing for them to decide that they need healing. It is another thing for someone else to decide for them which is quite arrogant

 

[flacaltenn]

The idea that being LGBT is a "belief" is stupid beyond all imagining. People don't choose it. It's not a "side" in any ideological battle. People, do, however, choose their religions, some very poorly. If the people who make these poor choices "believe" as they do, why can't they change instead of trying to force LGBTs to?

When you can become a member of a legally protected just by mere DECLARATION and then renounce or edit that vow tomorrow -- for MANY --- it is a belief. Belonging to a protected class needs to be a LEGAL and MEDICAL (if neccessary) declaration. Other than that --- I don't care HOW many "declarations" anyone makes.

If you don't trust people to choose their religions --- how can we trust you to make your declarations and choices without legal/medical certification?

 

[Tilly]

You can't seem to get your head around that fact that gay/ bi/ trans people do not need healing

Some of them believe they do, and it’s NOT FOR YOU TO SPEAK FOR THEM.