Go Red Sox! Beat the Dodgers!

[Pogo]

Go ahead and essplain to the class what it would be about pitching that makes hitting when the inning turns a challenge. Conversely what is it about playing 3B that "gives" that player power when he comes up to bat?

Does Not Follow. No reason other than perpetuating a mythology. What I listed above were those pitchers who don't buy into the mythology. You just quoted Kershaw as one of the better hitters; he's also one of the better pitchers. Shouldn't that work the opposite way? For that matter so are Greinke, Ohtani, Bumgarner, and in their day so were Lee and Ruth. Steve Carlton is another one.

Shouldn't a shitty pitcher be a better hitter than an effective pitcher? That should be the case if there's something about pitching that detracts from hitting. What is it?

Defense is out there to put the offense out, whether it's catching a fly ball, throwing out a grounder or an advancing runner, or serving up a strikeout. Then on the other side of the inning the job of those same players is to get on base and score runs. Doesn't matter what position you play; the 2B is expected to do that just as the C just as the RF etc. There's no logical reason to pick out one of the nine positions and declare "you get a pass, just go through the motions".

It's not a matter of "logical". It is a matter of the STATISICAL RECORD, as I showed in Post # 17. Point clearly made. No need to go over it again.

So you can't answer the question. Exactly.

 

[protectionist]

So you can't answer the question. Exactly.

Didn't see any question. Who cares ? The STATISICAL RECORD makes the point, period.

 

[Pogo]

So you can't answer the question. Exactly.

Didn't see any question. Who cares ? The STATISICAL RECORD makes the point, period.

--- which returns us right back to "self-fulfilling prophecy" where we started. If you muddle around in this mythology that "pitchers can't hit", then you don't expect pitchers to hit, and the pitchers themselves don't bother to hit since they know they'll get a pass.

The question however was, what about the action of pitching should make a player a poor hitter? As opposed to a 3B or a CF or a catcher? All your 'statistics' confirm is the mythology.

 

[EL Rich]

So you can't answer the question. Exactly.

Didn't see any question. Who cares ? The STATISICAL RECORD makes the point, period.

--- which returns us right back to "self-fulfilling prophecy" where we started. If you muddle around in this mythology that "pitchers can't hit", then you don't expect pitchers to hit, and the pitchers themselves don't bother to hit since they know they'll get a pass.

The question however was, what about the action of pitching should make a player a poor hitter? As opposed to a 3B or a CF or a catcher? All your 'statistics' confirm is the mythology.

I hate the DH, but it does is provide more offense and more fans.
To answer your question as to how pitching is different than fielding other positions; the pitcher is involved in every play unlike everybody else (except catcher) on the field. This means that while the leftfielder may see 4/5 plays where they are directly involved, they are for the most part watching the action. The physical and mental fatigue then manifests as the game continues. So while I agree there is nothing specific about pitchers athleticism that would translate to them being poor hitters, they are not focused on hitting and by the time they get an at bat they have been using at least one of their arms 30X per inning more than anybody else on the field. Catchers are also pulled into this but they are not exerting full effort on throws back to the pitcher. Though, please note that next to pitchers, catchers are traditionally the least productive hitters on their team. This is why when a catcher can hit .280 and pop 20 hrs a season they are a star. Those are good but not great numbers for any other position.
This might be sarcastic;
Basically, the DH is baseballs version of government stepping in to guide the game in a direction they want (more action). So, if you are a liberal you should be in favor of the DH and conservatives should see it as an overreaching central authority.

 

[Pogo]

So you can't answer the question. Exactly.

Didn't see any question. Who cares ? The STATISICAL RECORD makes the point, period.

--- which returns us right back to "self-fulfilling prophecy" where we started. If you muddle around in this mythology that "pitchers can't hit", then you don't expect pitchers to hit, and the pitchers themselves don't bother to hit since they know they'll get a pass.

The question however was, what about the action of pitching should make a player a poor hitter? As opposed to a 3B or a CF or a catcher? All your 'statistics' confirm is the mythology.

I hate the DH, but it does is provide more offense and more fans.
To answer your question as to how pitching is different than fielding other positions; the pitcher is involved in every play unlike everybody else (except catcher) on the field. This means that while the leftfielder may see 4/5 plays where they are directly involved, they are for the most part watching the action. The physical and mental fatigue then manifests as the game continues. So while I agree there is nothing specific about pitchers athleticism that would translate to them being poor hitters, they are not focused on hitting and by the time they get an at bat they have been using at least one of their arms 30X per inning more than anybody else on the field. Catchers are also pulled into this but they are not exerting full effort on throws back to the pitcher. Though, please note that next to pitchers, catchers are traditionally the least productive hitters on their team. This is why when a catcher can hit .280 and pop 20 hrs a season they are a star. Those are good but not great numbers for any other position.
This might be sarcastic;
Basically, the DH is baseballs version of government stepping in to guide the game in a direction they want (more action). So, if you are a liberal you should be in favor of the DH and conservatives should see it as an overreaching central authority.

Not a bad rant. But you got the last part directly backward.

The body flexes back. I don't buy the pitcher's arm motion, granted though it's substantial, being a detriment to batting. Different motion altogether. Methinks it's got way more to do with simply not being sharp, like the field positions are taking their batting practice and getting timing down. There's no reason pitchers shouldn't be doing that too. But that doesn't happen because --- again --- self-fulfilling prophecy. Once everybody buys the line "pitchers can't hit", pitchers, and their coaches, figure "what's the point?". Whelp --- they didn't have to buy that line in the first place, did they.

 

[protectionist]

--- which returns us right back to "self-fulfilling prophecy" where we started. If you muddle around in this mythology that "pitchers can't hit", then you don't expect pitchers to hit, and the pitchers themselves don't bother to hit since they know they'll get a pass.

The question however was, what about the action of pitching should make a player a poor hitter? As opposed to a 3B or a CF or a catcher? All your 'statistics' confirm is the mythology.

I see no myth. None.

Sometimes people overthink things.

 

[EL Rich]

So you can't answer the question. Exactly.

Didn't see any question. Who cares ? The STATISICAL RECORD makes the point, period.

--- which returns us right back to "self-fulfilling prophecy" where we started. If you muddle around in this mythology that "pitchers can't hit", then you don't expect pitchers to hit, and the pitchers themselves don't bother to hit since they know they'll get a pass.

The question however was, what about the action of pitching should make a player a poor hitter? As opposed to a 3B or a CF or a catcher? All your 'statistics' confirm is the mythology.

I hate the DH, but it does is provide more offense and more fans.
To answer your question as to how pitching is different than fielding other positions; the pitcher is involved in every play unlike everybody else (except catcher) on the field. This means that while the leftfielder may see 4/5 plays where they are directly involved, they are for the most part watching the action. The physical and mental fatigue then manifests as the game continues. So while I agree there is nothing specific about pitchers athleticism that would translate to them being poor hitters, they are not focused on hitting and by the time they get an at bat they have been using at least one of their arms 30X per inning more than anybody else on the field. Catchers are also pulled into this but they are not exerting full effort on throws back to the pitcher. Though, please note that next to pitchers, catchers are traditionally the least productive hitters on their team. This is why when a catcher can hit .280 and pop 20 hrs a season they are a star. Those are good but not great numbers for any other position.
This might be sarcastic;
Basically, the DH is baseballs version of government stepping in to guide the game in a direction they want (more action). So, if you are a liberal you should be in favor of the DH and conservatives should see it as an overreaching central authority.

Not a bad rant. But you got the last part directly backward.

The body flexes back. I don't buy the pitcher's arm motion, granted though it's substantial, being a detriment to batting. Different motion altogether. Methinks it's got way more to do with simply not being sharp, like the field positions are taking their batting practice and getting timing down. There's no reason pitchers shouldn't be doing that too. But that doesn't happen because --- again --- self-fulfilling prophecy. Once everybody buys the line "pitchers can't hit", pitchers, and their coaches, figure "what's the point?". Whelp --- they didn't have to buy that line in the first place, did they.

Have you ever played the game? Pitched? If you haven’t, it is more physically and emotionally exhausting than any other position. If you were correct that this is simply about not being as sharp, why wouldn’t NL teams give their pitchers the same batting practice as position players. On average they are giving away about 1 1/2 hits every 10 at bats. (This is looking at avg pitcher stats .100-.150 and avg position players .240-.270) Why would they do this? They could easily improve their lineups by almost 1/2 a run per game. Over a season, that is the difference between a .500 club and one competing for a playoff spot. I am not arguing the extremes here, yes some athletes are simply more gifted physically, but on average most pitchers can not withstand the rigors of pitching while also dealing with the challenges of hitting a baseball consistently. The statistics over every era show this. The AL originally did this as a gimmick to separate themselves from “the Senior Circuit” by creating more offense and more reasons for fans to cheer.
So while I love a1-0 game, I am a dying breed. Most fans would certainly prefer a 11-10 game. In the end, this is entertainment and whatever gets “butts in seats” - in this case more offense- is going to be embraced.
I don’t think you got the joke at the end, probably my bad.

 

[protectionist]

Have you ever played the game? Pitched? If you haven’t, it is more physically and emotionally exhausting than any other position. If you were correct that this is simply about not being as sharp, why wouldn’t NL teams give their pitchers the same batting practice as position players. On average they are giving away about 1 1/2 hits every 10 at bats. (This is looking at avg pitcher stats .100-.150 and avg position players .240-.270) Why would they do this? They could easily improve their lineups by almost 1/2 a run per game. Over a season, that is the difference between a .500 club and one competing for a playoff spot. I am not arguing the extremes here, yes some athletes are simply more gifted physically, but on average most pitchers can not withstand the rigors of pitching while also dealing with the challenges of hitting a baseball consistently. The statistics over every era show this. The AL originally did this as a gimmick to separate themselves from “the Senior Circuit” by creating more offense and more reasons for fans to cheer.
So while I love a1-0 game, I am a dying breed. Most fans would certainly prefer a 11-10 game. In the end, this is entertainment and whatever gets “butts in seats” - in this case more offense- is going to be embraced.
I don’t think you got the joke at the end, probably my bad.

Slugfest is more entertaining than...………..



the chess game.

 

[Pogo]

So you can't answer the question. Exactly.

Didn't see any question. Who cares ? The STATISICAL RECORD makes the point, period.

--- which returns us right back to "self-fulfilling prophecy" where we started. If you muddle around in this mythology that "pitchers can't hit", then you don't expect pitchers to hit, and the pitchers themselves don't bother to hit since they know they'll get a pass.

The question however was, what about the action of pitching should make a player a poor hitter? As opposed to a 3B or a CF or a catcher? All your 'statistics' confirm is the mythology.

I hate the DH, but it does is provide more offense and more fans.
To answer your question as to how pitching is different than fielding other positions; the pitcher is involved in every play unlike everybody else (except catcher) on the field. This means that while the leftfielder may see 4/5 plays where they are directly involved, they are for the most part watching the action. The physical and mental fatigue then manifests as the game continues. So while I agree there is nothing specific about pitchers athleticism that would translate to them being poor hitters, they are not focused on hitting and by the time they get an at bat they have been using at least one of their arms 30X per inning more than anybody else on the field. Catchers are also pulled into this but they are not exerting full effort on throws back to the pitcher. Though, please note that next to pitchers, catchers are traditionally the least productive hitters on their team. This is why when a catcher can hit .280 and pop 20 hrs a season they are a star. Those are good but not great numbers for any other position.
This might be sarcastic;
Basically, the DH is baseballs version of government stepping in to guide the game in a direction they want (more action). So, if you are a liberal you should be in favor of the DH and conservatives should see it as an overreaching central authority.

Not a bad rant. But you got the last part directly backward.

The body flexes back. I don't buy the pitcher's arm motion, granted though it's substantial, being a detriment to batting. Different motion altogether. Methinks it's got way more to do with simply not being sharp, like the field positions are taking their batting practice and getting timing down. There's no reason pitchers shouldn't be doing that too. But that doesn't happen because --- again --- self-fulfilling prophecy. Once everybody buys the line "pitchers can't hit", pitchers, and their coaches, figure "what's the point?". Whelp --- they didn't have to buy that line in the first place, did they.

Have you ever played the game? Pitched? If you haven’t, it is more physically and emotionally exhausting than any other position. If you were correct that this is simply about not being as sharp, why wouldn’t NL teams give their pitchers the same batting practice as position players. On average they are giving away about 1 1/2 hits every 10 at bats. (This is looking at avg pitcher stats .100-.150 and avg position players .240-.270) Why would they do this? They could easily improve their lineups by almost 1/2 a run per game. Over a season, that is the difference between a .500 club and one competing for a playoff spot. I am not arguing the extremes here, yes some athletes are simply more gifted physically, but on average most pitchers can not withstand the rigors of pitching while also dealing with the challenges of hitting a baseball consistently. The statistics over every era show this. The AL originally did this as a gimmick to separate themselves from “the Senior Circuit” by creating more offense and more reasons for fans to cheer.
So while I love a1-0 game, I am a dying breed. Most fans would certainly prefer a 11-10 game. In the end, this is entertainment and whatever gets “butts in seats” - in this case more offense- is going to be embraced.
I don’t think you got the joke at the end, probably my bad.

OK I didn't read it as a joke. I got the analogy but it just came out backward.

Your points that it's all about marketing are well taken and I agree with them. But I also agree that that dishonors the game. Seems to me when there are rules established, in this case that defensive players bat, it's not OK to monkey them up. That's a joke right there.

I'm a traditionalist I guess. For that matter I'm still incensed that they did away with physically throwing the ball on intentional walks, and with the a-few-years-older "defensive indifference". Both of those are IMHO bullshit. We could go on --- in the minors I understand if a game goes extra innings they start creating a runner on 2B out of thin air. On and on.

If you were correct that this is simply about not being as sharp, why wouldn’t NL teams give their pitchers the same batting practice as position players

That's my point -- they don't do that because they've bought into the whole "pitchers can't hit" mythology, which then feeds itself. I listed numerous examples of Bumgarner, Greinke, Carlton, Ruth, Lee, Lorenzen et al who definitely are/were both good hitters and good pitchers, starters (except Lorenzen) whose arms get considerable work during the defensive half, and it doesn't seem to slow down their bats, nor does their hitting seem to impair their pitching. If teams would quit buying into this inevitability of expectations, sure your pitcher might still be your weakest hitter but at least he wouldn't be up there giving away outs, which I believe dishonors the game.

And on the other end, I don't think a DH earns an at-bat just sitting on the bench until his turn comes up. That ain't baseball.

Oh and back to the top, I have played the game but not usually pitching. My delivery isn't deceptive at all, I'd get lit up. But I'm a good hitter.

 

[Pogo]

--- which returns us right back to "self-fulfilling prophecy" where we started. If you muddle around in this mythology that "pitchers can't hit", then you don't expect pitchers to hit, and the pitchers themselves don't bother to hit since they know they'll get a pass.

The question however was, what about the action of pitching should make a player a poor hitter? As opposed to a 3B or a CF or a catcher? All your 'statistics' confirm is the mythology.

I see no myth. None.

Sometimes people overthink things.

That's true. I'm more concerned with when people underthink.

 

[EL Rich]

Fair points, but I still think you are looking at the extremes as far as listing off the very best hitting pitchers. The AL was addressing the vast majority. I think this also has to do with the teams evaluation that good pitchers have more value than good hitters. So while the Yankees could use CC Sabathia as a pinch hitter (he is surely a better hitter than most reserve utility infielder types), their evaluation says it is not worth the risk of injury.
Also, as you well know, squaring up a baseball is one of the hardest skills in sports. So, I don’t care if a DH spends the time between ABs, as their teammates are in the field, being massaged by 1,000 loving fingers, while being fanned by a troop of vestal virgins. Any hit at the major league level is an accomplishment.
The statistics over the history of the game show that pitchers batting averages and power production is well below the MLB averages. I can’t believe that teams would not use any competitive advantage they could get, and if most pitchers could produce on the same level as most every day players they would be getting ABs.
All of this said, I emphatically agree with you as far as what my personal preference is, let them hit! But MLB is a business and is run like one.

 

[Pogo]

Fair points, but I still think you are looking at the extremes as far as listing off the very best hitting pitchers. The AL was addressing the vast majority. I think this also has to do with the teams evaluation that good pitchers have more value than good hitters. So while the Yankees could use CC Sabathia as a pinch hitter (he is surely a better hitter than most reserve utility infielder types), their evaluation says it is not worth the risk of injury.
Also, as you well know, squaring up a baseball is one of the hardest skills in sports. So, I don’t care if a DH spends the time between ABs, as their teammates are in the field, being massaged by 1,000 loving fingers, while being fanned by a troop of vestal virgins. Any hit at the major league level is an accomplishment.
The statistics over the history of the game show that pitchers batting averages and power production is well below the MLB averages. I can’t believe that teams would not use any competitive advantage they could get, and if most pitchers could produce on the same level as most every day players they would be getting ABs.
All of this said, I emphatically agree with you as far as what my personal preference is, let them hit! But MLB is a business and is run like one.

On the whole, agreed. And I wonder (I don't know) -- does the DH require batting for a pitcher, or can it be used to bat for anybody? Suppose you have a Mad Bum pitching and a good-field-no-hit second baseman. Can you DH for the 2B and let Mad Bum bat?

For me pitching would be far more a challenge than hitting. It's just way easier to do the latter. Pitching is like a science where batting is just play.

 

[EL Rich]

Fair points, but I still think you are looking at the extremes as far as listing off the very best hitting pitchers. The AL was addressing the vast majority. I think this also has to do with the teams evaluation that good pitchers have more value than good hitters. So while the Yankees could use CC Sabathia as a pinch hitter (he is surely a better hitter than most reserve utility infielder types), their evaluation says it is not worth the risk of injury.
Also, as you well know, squaring up a baseball is one of the hardest skills in sports. So, I don’t care if a DH spends the time between ABs, as their teammates are in the field, being massaged by 1,000 loving fingers, while being fanned by a troop of vestal virgins. Any hit at the major league level is an accomplishment.
The statistics over the history of the game show that pitchers batting averages and power production is well below the MLB averages. I can’t believe that teams would not use any competitive advantage they could get, and if most pitchers could produce on the same level as most every day players they would be getting ABs.
All of this said, I emphatically agree with you as far as what my personal preference is, let them hit! But MLB is a business and is run like one.

On the whole, agreed. And I wonder (I don't know) -- does the DH require batting for a pitcher, or can it be used to bat for anybody? Suppose you have a Mad Bum pitching and a good-field-no-hit second baseman. Can you DH for the 2B and let Mad Bum bat?

For me pitching would be far more a challenge than hitting. It's just way easier to do the latter. Pitching is like a science where batting is just play.

In MLB the DH can only be used for pitchers, many youth leagues and colleges allow DH for any player. I agree that at even at the HS level hitting trumps pitching. But as soon as you try to hit someone who can throw in the high 80’s and has a decent breaking ball they can throw for strikes, that flips. By the time you get to the pros, good pitching can shut down great hitting. This is why even NCAA top hitters have batting averages around and above .400, in all levels of pro ball this is a freak occurrence.
This is a fun discussion, thanks.

 

[Pogo]

Fair points, but I still think you are looking at the extremes as far as listing off the very best hitting pitchers. The AL was addressing the vast majority. I think this also has to do with the teams evaluation that good pitchers have more value than good hitters. So while the Yankees could use CC Sabathia as a pinch hitter (he is surely a better hitter than most reserve utility infielder types), their evaluation says it is not worth the risk of injury.
Also, as you well know, squaring up a baseball is one of the hardest skills in sports. So, I don’t care if a DH spends the time between ABs, as their teammates are in the field, being massaged by 1,000 loving fingers, while being fanned by a troop of vestal virgins. Any hit at the major league level is an accomplishment.
The statistics over the history of the game show that pitchers batting averages and power production is well below the MLB averages. I can’t believe that teams would not use any competitive advantage they could get, and if most pitchers could produce on the same level as most every day players they would be getting ABs.
All of this said, I emphatically agree with you as far as what my personal preference is, let them hit! But MLB is a business and is run like one.

On the whole, agreed. And I wonder (I don't know) -- does the DH require batting for a pitcher, or can it be used to bat for anybody? Suppose you have a Mad Bum pitching and a good-field-no-hit second baseman. Can you DH for the 2B and let Mad Bum bat?

For me pitching would be far more a challenge than hitting. It's just way easier to do the latter. Pitching is like a science where batting is just play.

In MLB the DH can only be used for pitchers, many youth leagues and colleges allow DH for any player. I agree that at even at the HS level hitting trumps pitching. But as soon as you try to hit someone who can throw in the high 80’s and has a decent breaking ball they can throw for strikes, that flips. By the time you get to the pros, good pitching can shut down great hitting. This is why even NCAA top hitters have batting averages around and above .400, in all levels of pro ball this is a freak occurrence.
This is a fun discussion, thanks.

Yes it is, thanks back atchya. Why I ask is, if you can DH for any player doesn't that disprove the whole basis for the DH in the first place? And if you do that, why stop there? Why not have one lineup for offense and another for defense as NFL does, and only the occasional player would be a two-way? Rhetorical question.

On the other hand I've got some uh, creative ideas of my own. One: a lefthanded batter has an advantage being closer to first base, so when a righthanded hitter comes up, everything reverses -- he runs to third base and everything goes clockwise. Lefty comes up, you go back.

The second is: Winter baseball. In the snow. Paint the ball orange so everybody can see it and just go for it. Imagine the slides.

 

[EL Rich]

Fair points, but I still think you are looking at the extremes as far as listing off the very best hitting pitchers. The AL was addressing the vast majority. I think this also has to do with the teams evaluation that good pitchers have more value than good hitters. So while the Yankees could use CC Sabathia as a pinch hitter (he is surely a better hitter than most reserve utility infielder types), their evaluation says it is not worth the risk of injury.
Also, as you well know, squaring up a baseball is one of the hardest skills in sports. So, I don’t care if a DH spends the time between ABs, as their teammates are in the field, being massaged by 1,000 loving fingers, while being fanned by a troop of vestal virgins. Any hit at the major league level is an accomplishment.
The statistics over the history of the game show that pitchers batting averages and power production is well below the MLB averages. I can’t believe that teams would not use any competitive advantage they could get, and if most pitchers could produce on the same level as most every day players they would be getting ABs.
All of this said, I emphatically agree with you as far as what my personal preference is, let them hit! But MLB is a business and is run like one.

On the whole, agreed. And I wonder (I don't know) -- does the DH require batting for a pitcher, or can it be used to bat for anybody? Suppose you have a Mad Bum pitching and a good-field-no-hit second baseman. Can you DH for the 2B and let Mad Bum bat?

For me pitching would be far more a challenge than hitting. It's just way easier to do the latter. Pitching is like a science where batting is just play.

In MLB the DH can only be used for pitchers, many youth leagues and colleges allow DH for any player. I agree that at even at the HS level hitting trumps pitching. But as soon as you try to hit someone who can throw in the high 80’s and has a decent breaking ball they can throw for strikes, that flips. By the time you get to the pros, good pitching can shut down great hitting. This is why even NCAA top hitters have batting averages around and above .400, in all levels of pro ball this is a freak occurrence.
This is a fun discussion, thanks.

Yes it is, thanks back atchya. Why I ask is, if you can DH for any player doesn't that disprove the whole basis for the DH in the first place? And if you do that, why stop there? Why not have one lineup for offense and another for defense as NFL does, and only the occasional player would be a two-way? Rhetorical question.

On the other hand I've got some uh, creative ideas of my own. One: a lefthanded batter has an advantage being closer to first base, so when a righthanded hitter comes up, everything reverses -- he runs to third base and everything goes clockwise. Lefty comes up, you go back.

The second is: Winter baseball. In the snow. Paint the ball orange so everybody can see it and just go for it. Imagine the slides.

Love the winter ball idea! Maybe pile up some snowbanks as obstacles and allow players to chuck snowballs at each other. Imagine trying to hit a ball with three or four snowballs coming at you!
As for your shift to third for righties, would the defense be allowed to sub in left handed infielders?
The separate offensive unit and defensive units is far more than my traditionalist sediments even allow me to imagine.

 

[Pogo]

Fair points, but I still think you are looking at the extremes as far as listing off the very best hitting pitchers. The AL was addressing the vast majority. I think this also has to do with the teams evaluation that good pitchers have more value than good hitters. So while the Yankees could use CC Sabathia as a pinch hitter (he is surely a better hitter than most reserve utility infielder types), their evaluation says it is not worth the risk of injury.
Also, as you well know, squaring up a baseball is one of the hardest skills in sports. So, I don’t care if a DH spends the time between ABs, as their teammates are in the field, being massaged by 1,000 loving fingers, while being fanned by a troop of vestal virgins. Any hit at the major league level is an accomplishment.
The statistics over the history of the game show that pitchers batting averages and power production is well below the MLB averages. I can’t believe that teams would not use any competitive advantage they could get, and if most pitchers could produce on the same level as most every day players they would be getting ABs.
All of this said, I emphatically agree with you as far as what my personal preference is, let them hit! But MLB is a business and is run like one.

On the whole, agreed. And I wonder (I don't know) -- does the DH require batting for a pitcher, or can it be used to bat for anybody? Suppose you have a Mad Bum pitching and a good-field-no-hit second baseman. Can you DH for the 2B and let Mad Bum bat?

For me pitching would be far more a challenge than hitting. It's just way easier to do the latter. Pitching is like a science where batting is just play.

In MLB the DH can only be used for pitchers, many youth leagues and colleges allow DH for any player. I agree that at even at the HS level hitting trumps pitching. But as soon as you try to hit someone who can throw in the high 80’s and has a decent breaking ball they can throw for strikes, that flips. By the time you get to the pros, good pitching can shut down great hitting. This is why even NCAA top hitters have batting averages around and above .400, in all levels of pro ball this is a freak occurrence.
This is a fun discussion, thanks.

Yes it is, thanks back atchya. Why I ask is, if you can DH for any player doesn't that disprove the whole basis for the DH in the first place? And if you do that, why stop there? Why not have one lineup for offense and another for defense as NFL does, and only the occasional player would be a two-way? Rhetorical question.

On the other hand I've got some uh, creative ideas of my own. One: a lefthanded batter has an advantage being closer to first base, so when a righthanded hitter comes up, everything reverses -- he runs to third base and everything goes clockwise. Lefty comes up, you go back.

The second is: Winter baseball. In the snow. Paint the ball orange so everybody can see it and just go for it. Imagine the slides.

Love the winter ball idea! Maybe pile up some snowbanks as obstacles and allow players to chuck snowballs at each other. Imagine trying to hit a ball with three or four snowballs coming at you!
As for your shift to third for righties, would the defense be allowed to sub in left handed infielders?
The separate offensive unit and defensive units is far more than my traditionalist sediments even allow me to imagine.

Yeah that's true, you'd want a lefthanded "shortstop" and 2B available. Ambidexterity would be a big plus. Did you see the play where Vince Velasquez got hit on the right arm by a line drive, so he threw his glove off and threw a seed to first base lefthanded and got the guy out?

I love the snowball idea. Could also lead to some interesting rhubarbs.

 

[Snouter]

18 innings. I am routing for the Red Sox, but it was fine that the Dodgers win one game, obviously a must win or the series would be embarassing. Plus the Red Sox will win the series in Boston which is nice.

 

[protectionist]

That's true. I'm more concerned with when people underthink.

I'm concerned with both.

 

[Snouter]

The BoSox are punishing the Dodgers!

Red Sox vs. Dodgers | 10/27/18

 

[MarathonMike]

Dave Roberts snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with ridiculous pitching changes. He pulls Rich Hill who was throwing a no stress one hitter in the 7th! It was doubly stupid since they played a 'double header' the day before and the bullpen could have used the rest. After about 8 pitching changes they went from 4-0 up in the 7th and lost 9-6. Ouch!

I'm not a fan of either team but I am amazed how good the Boston hitters are. I see how they won so many games this year.