Global Warming

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Newtonian

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Newtonian writes:

It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
It was at least that warm or warmer early in the interglacial period, but nothing terrible happened.

I have seen the claims of tipping points and feedback loops for years now, they are dumb today as they were 25 years ago.
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.

Do you actually believe what you post? Or are you simply trying to deceive people?
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Newtonian writes:

It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
It was at least that warm or warmer early in the interglacial period, but nothing terrible happened.

I have seen the claims of tipping points and feedback loops for years now, they are dumb today as they were 25 years ago.
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.

Do you actually believe what you post? Or are you simply trying to deceive people?
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.


Exactly!!!
And that's why we need to waste...err...invest trillions in less reliable, "green energy".
 
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Newtonian

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It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop? ... these things violate the laws of thermodynamics unless you can explain how they don't ... the main feedback loop here is clouds will be increasing which lowers temperatures, but this is a negative feedback ... reducing temperatures as time goes forward ... look at the ice core data ... why didn't these "tipping points" happen during previous inter-glaciations? ... what magic are you relying on with your claim? ...

You didn't say how this changes climate either ...
For example:
" 10. One of the most striking quantitative findings concerns the loss of biodiversity. It predicts the proportion of species that will lose half their geographic range. Out of 105,000 species studied, the rate doubles between 1.5C and 2C warming to 16% for plants and 8% for vertebrates, and triples to 18% for insects."
We can go through each of these 37 weasel statements if you'd like ... but you just copy/pasted one:

The main cause for species loss is habitat destruction ... cutting down a forest and planting corn ... and we are over-fishing our oceans ... and these are accelerated by increasing human populations ... global warming will only have a trivial effect on species loss as long as we continue farming and fishing ... more people to feed means more loss of species ...

Ever notice the great mega-fauna extinction events in the past 50,000 years were coincident with the arrival of humans? ... famously here in North America 15,000 years ago, but also Australia 40,000 years ago ... many many species have gone extinct long before industrial times ...

Sounds like you're okay with clear-cutting the rain forests, dumping toxic waste in our rivers and stripping the oceans of all life forms larger than a rat ... in your claim above, you say it's only the warming that's bad, everything else is fine ...

How many species are thriving behind human's destructiveness ... lampreys, coyotes, coronaviruses, Johnson grass, zebra mussels ... the list goes on ... plus the warmer temperatures and more abundant CO2 will benefit plants in general, and benefit human food plants specifically ... especially since rainfall will increase and be more evenly distributed ... slight increases in temperature means slight increases in rain, not near enough to solve our water problems or counter-act human procreation ...

Human population quadrupled in just the last 100 years ... it will not quadruple in the next 100 years ... if population only doubles, we still have negative outcomes for 16 billion people ... all this death and misery from causes completely unrelated to global warming ...

"A Bengal tiger. Global warming puts more species at risk of habitat loss and extinction"

Falsehood ... human predation and clearing the forests is what's killing off all the tigers, not global warming ... and of the panthers; lions, tigers and jaguars are in trouble; but leopards are growing in population and expanding their ranges ... ecological niches don't stay empty for long ...
Habitat destruction is linked to point 10 - the loss of biodiversity. I never posted global warming in earth's main problem. If you actually looked at the links to our literature on this you would have realized I believe global warming is just one of many serious ways man is ruining the earth.

You are partly correct and partly in error. Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming - obviously not in the same place at the same time.

There are many man-caused problems - here are a few that you posted about>

1. Overpopulation - though this is really only a problem because of the activities of said population. I could go into detail on that if you would like me to.

2. Habitat destruction. But global warming is one way habitats are being destroyed by man. Other ways include use of pesticides and herbicides in farming, and the failure to contain fertilizers on farmland. For example, huge dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico are caused by this.

Growing one crop also causes lack of biodiversity - not to mention other problems.

Slash and burn does not just add CO2 - it destroys whole ecosystems! Worse that clear-cutting though that is a problem as well. There are advantages to having a reasonable amount of old-growth forests.

3. Over fishing and human predation. Certainly another problem. There are actually health advantages to eating less meat (and fish) and more vegetation. Just having a few hundred types of fruits and vegetables is a related problem. There is an enormous amount of variety in edible plants. Two examples: the common violet (NOT the African violet) and common chickweed.

The more the variety of plants grown for food the more biodiversity. However, organic gardening is required.

Well, the list could go on - I will start a thread on the many ways man is ruining the earth. I have been posting on the subject of global warming because of the lies and deceptions about this being posted on this forum.

Are there threads on biodiversity, deforestation, over fishing, air pollution, water pollution, ocean pollution, loss of top soil, poisons in foods and food containers, thawing of pathogens due to the thawing of the arctic permafrost, hunting (especially for sport or poaching), fences, oil/petroleum produce pollution (e.g. oil spills, pipeline leaks, etc.)?

If you post a URL for a thread in this forum on any of these subjects or on any subject involving the environment - I will try to post on it.
I will certainly try to post on them.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop? ... these things violate the laws of thermodynamics unless you can explain how they don't ... the main feedback loop here is clouds will be increasing which lowers temperatures, but this is a negative feedback ... reducing temperatures as time goes forward ... look at the ice core data ... why didn't these "tipping points" happen during previous inter-glaciations? ... what magic are you relying on with your claim? ...

You didn't say how this changes climate either ...
For example:
" 10. One of the most striking quantitative findings concerns the loss of biodiversity. It predicts the proportion of species that will lose half their geographic range. Out of 105,000 species studied, the rate doubles between 1.5C and 2C warming to 16% for plants and 8% for vertebrates, and triples to 18% for insects."
We can go through each of these 37 weasel statements if you'd like ... but you just copy/pasted one:

The main cause for species loss is habitat destruction ... cutting down a forest and planting corn ... and we are over-fishing our oceans ... and these are accelerated by increasing human populations ... global warming will only have a trivial effect on species loss as long as we continue farming and fishing ... more people to feed means more loss of species ...

Ever notice the great mega-fauna extinction events in the past 50,000 years were coincident with the arrival of humans? ... famously here in North America 15,000 years ago, but also Australia 40,000 years ago ... many many species have gone extinct long before industrial times ...

Sounds like you're okay with clear-cutting the rain forests, dumping toxic waste in our rivers and stripping the oceans of all life forms larger than a rat ... in your claim above, you say it's only the warming that's bad, everything else is fine ...

How many species are thriving behind human's destructiveness ... lampreys, coyotes, coronaviruses, Johnson grass, zebra mussels ... the list goes on ... plus the warmer temperatures and more abundant CO2 will benefit plants in general, and benefit human food plants specifically ... especially since rainfall will increase and be more evenly distributed ... slight increases in temperature means slight increases in rain, not near enough to solve our water problems or counter-act human procreation ...

Human population quadrupled in just the last 100 years ... it will not quadruple in the next 100 years ... if population only doubles, we still have negative outcomes for 16 billion people ... all this death and misery from causes completely unrelated to global warming ...

"A Bengal tiger. Global warming puts more species at risk of habitat loss and extinction"

Falsehood ... human predation and clearing the forests is what's killing off all the tigers, not global warming ... and of the panthers; lions, tigers and jaguars are in trouble; but leopards are growing in population and expanding their ranges ... ecological niches don't stay empty for long ...
Habitat destruction is linked to point 10 - the loss of biodiversity. I never posted global warming in earth's main problem. If you actually looked at the links to our literature on this you would have realized I believe global warming is just one of many serious ways man is ruining the earth.

You are partly correct and partly in error. Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming - obviously not in the same place at the same time.

There are many man-caused problems - here are a few that you posted about>

1. Overpopulation - though this is really only a problem because of the activities of said population. I could go into detail on that if you would like me to.

2. Habitat destruction. But global warming is one way habitats are being destroyed by man. Other ways include use of pesticides and herbicides in farming, and the failure to contain fertilizers on farmland. For example, huge dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico are caused by this.

Growing one crop also causes lack of biodiversity - not to mention other problems.

Slash and burn does not just add CO2 - it destroys whole ecosystems! Worse that clear-cutting though that is a problem as well. There are advantages to having a reasonable amount of old-growth forests.

3. Over fishing and human predation. Certainly another problem. There are actually health advantages to eating less meat (and fish) and more vegetation. Just having a few hundred types of fruits and vegetables is a related problem. There is an enormous amount of variety in edible plants. Two examples: the common violet (NOT the African violet) and common chickweed.

The more the variety of plants grown for food the more biodiversity. However, organic gardening is required.

Well, the list could go on - I will start a thread on the many ways man is ruining the earth. I have been posting on the subject of global warming because of the lies and deceptions about this being posted on this forum.

Are there threads on biodiversity, deforestation, over fishing, air pollution, water pollution, ocean pollution, loss of top soil, poisons in foods and food containers, thawing of pathogens due to the thawing of the arctic permafrost, hunting (especially for sport or poaching), fences, oil/petroleum produce pollution (e.g. oil spills, pipeline leaks, etc.)?

If you post a URL for a thread in this forum on any of these subjects or on any subject involving the environment - I will try to post on it.
I will certainly try to post on them.

Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming


Sounds awful!!

What is the optimum temperature.....to minimize flooding and droughts? Link?
 

Sunsettommy

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Newtonian writes:

It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
It was at least that warm or warmer early in the interglacial period, but nothing terrible happened.

I have seen the claims of tipping points and feedback loops for years now, they are dumb today as they were 25 years ago.
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.

Do you actually believe what you post? Or are you simply trying to deceive people?
Ha ha, Greta is your warmist/alarmist mascot?

He he, you have yet to tell ReinyDays the answer to his post 58:

"Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop? ... these things violate the laws of thermodynamics unless you can explain how they don't ... the main feedback loop here is clouds will be increasing which lowers temperatures, but this is a negative feedback ... reducing temperatures as time goes forward ... look at the ice core data ... why didn't these "tipping points" happen during previous inter-glaciations? ... what magic are you relying on with your claim? ...

You didn't say how this changes climate either ... "

You have yet to tell me either.

Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop?

What is holding you back?

Waiting,
waiting.
waiting.....
 
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Newtonian

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Newtonian writes:

It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
It was at least that warm or warmer early in the interglacial period, but nothing terrible happened.

I have seen the claims of tipping points and feedback loops for years now, they are dumb today as they were 25 years ago.
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.

Do you actually believe what you post? Or are you simply trying to deceive people?
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.


Exactly!!!
And that's why we need to waste...err...invest trillions in less reliable, "green energy".
Interesting tangent. I have a number of questions and comments on that. A few:

1. The Antarctic Coast has the windiest regions on the planet - this is huge potential energy source - why isn't it being utilized more?

2. Why are there so few partly underground homes which lower the need for heating and cooling. Ever visited a cave during winter cold or summer heat?

3. Why are so many roofs dark colored instead of white - an easy way to slow global warming by reflecting solar energy back into space.

4. Related to that, why so few 'green roofs' where residents can grow food and flowers on their roofs?

5. Why so few cross-continent man-made rivers to alleviate flooding and drought? These could be partly underground btw.

Bottom line - we have the technology to solve most problems (not Corona virus however). The real problem is earth's moral breakdown including greed and lack of love.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Newtonian writes:

It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
It was at least that warm or warmer early in the interglacial period, but nothing terrible happened.

I have seen the claims of tipping points and feedback loops for years now, they are dumb today as they were 25 years ago.
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.

Do you actually believe what you post? Or are you simply trying to deceive people?
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.


Exactly!!!
And that's why we need to waste...err...invest trillions in less reliable, "green energy".
Interesting tangent. I have a number of questions and comments on that. A few:

1. The Antarctic Coast has the windiest regions on the planet - this is huge potential energy source - why isn't it being utilized more?

2. Why are there so few partly underground homes which lower the need for heating and cooling. Ever visited a cave during winter cold or summer heat?

3. Why are so many roofs dark colored instead of white - an easy way to slow global warming by reflecting solar energy back into space.

4. Related to that, why so few 'green roofs' where residents can grow food and flowers on their roofs?

5. Why so few cross-continent man-made rivers to alleviate flooding and drought? These could be partly underground btw.

Bottom line - we have the technology to solve most problems (not Corona virus however). The real problem is earth's moral breakdown including greed and lack of love.
The Antarctic Coast has the windiest regions on the planet - this is huge potential energy source - why isn't it being utilized more?

Because it would take a looooong fucking extension cord, idiot.


Why are there so few partly underground homes which lower the need for heating and cooling.


How much would it cost, how much would it save?

Why are so many roofs dark colored instead of white - an easy way to slow global warming by reflecting solar energy back into space.

You should definitely color your's white.

Related to that, why so few 'green roofs' where residents can grow food and flowers on their roofs?

Flat roofs on Chicago houses would be stupid. You should feel free.

Bottom line - we have the technology to solve most problems

You never answered, how many new nuclear plants should we build?

The real problem is earth's moral breakdown including greed and lack of love.

And ignorance of economics, but there is hope for you yet.
 
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Newtonian

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It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop? ... these things violate the laws of thermodynamics unless you can explain how they don't ... the main feedback loop here is clouds will be increasing which lowers temperatures, but this is a negative feedback ... reducing temperatures as time goes forward ... look at the ice core data ... why didn't these "tipping points" happen during previous inter-glaciations? ... what magic are you relying on with your claim? ...

You didn't say how this changes climate either ...
For example:
" 10. One of the most striking quantitative findings concerns the loss of biodiversity. It predicts the proportion of species that will lose half their geographic range. Out of 105,000 species studied, the rate doubles between 1.5C and 2C warming to 16% for plants and 8% for vertebrates, and triples to 18% for insects."
We can go through each of these 37 weasel statements if you'd like ... but you just copy/pasted one:

The main cause for species loss is habitat destruction ... cutting down a forest and planting corn ... and we are over-fishing our oceans ... and these are accelerated by increasing human populations ... global warming will only have a trivial effect on species loss as long as we continue farming and fishing ... more people to feed means more loss of species ...

Ever notice the great mega-fauna extinction events in the past 50,000 years were coincident with the arrival of humans? ... famously here in North America 15,000 years ago, but also Australia 40,000 years ago ... many many species have gone extinct long before industrial times ...

Sounds like you're okay with clear-cutting the rain forests, dumping toxic waste in our rivers and stripping the oceans of all life forms larger than a rat ... in your claim above, you say it's only the warming that's bad, everything else is fine ...

How many species are thriving behind human's destructiveness ... lampreys, coyotes, coronaviruses, Johnson grass, zebra mussels ... the list goes on ... plus the warmer temperatures and more abundant CO2 will benefit plants in general, and benefit human food plants specifically ... especially since rainfall will increase and be more evenly distributed ... slight increases in temperature means slight increases in rain, not near enough to solve our water problems or counter-act human procreation ...

Human population quadrupled in just the last 100 years ... it will not quadruple in the next 100 years ... if population only doubles, we still have negative outcomes for 16 billion people ... all this death and misery from causes completely unrelated to global warming ...

"A Bengal tiger. Global warming puts more species at risk of habitat loss and extinction"

Falsehood ... human predation and clearing the forests is what's killing off all the tigers, not global warming ... and of the panthers; lions, tigers and jaguars are in trouble; but leopards are growing in population and expanding their ranges ... ecological niches don't stay empty for long ...
Habitat destruction is linked to point 10 - the loss of biodiversity. I never posted global warming in earth's main problem. If you actually looked at the links to our literature on this you would have realized I believe global warming is just one of many serious ways man is ruining the earth.

You are partly correct and partly in error. Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming - obviously not in the same place at the same time.

There are many man-caused problems - here are a few that you posted about>

1. Overpopulation - though this is really only a problem because of the activities of said population. I could go into detail on that if you would like me to.

2. Habitat destruction. But global warming is one way habitats are being destroyed by man. Other ways include use of pesticides and herbicides in farming, and the failure to contain fertilizers on farmland. For example, huge dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico are caused by this.

Growing one crop also causes lack of biodiversity - not to mention other problems.

Slash and burn does not just add CO2 - it destroys whole ecosystems! Worse that clear-cutting though that is a problem as well. There are advantages to having a reasonable amount of old-growth forests.

3. Over fishing and human predation. Certainly another problem. There are actually health advantages to eating less meat (and fish) and more vegetation. Just having a few hundred types of fruits and vegetables is a related problem. There is an enormous amount of variety in edible plants. Two examples: the common violet (NOT the African violet) and common chickweed.

The more the variety of plants grown for food the more biodiversity. However, organic gardening is required.

Well, the list could go on - I will start a thread on the many ways man is ruining the earth. I have been posting on the subject of global warming because of the lies and deceptions about this being posted on this forum.

Are there threads on biodiversity, deforestation, over fishing, air pollution, water pollution, ocean pollution, loss of top soil, poisons in foods and food containers, thawing of pathogens due to the thawing of the arctic permafrost, hunting (especially for sport or poaching), fences, oil/petroleum produce pollution (e.g. oil spills, pipeline leaks, etc.)?

If you post a URL for a thread in this forum on any of these subjects or on any subject involving the environment - I will try to post on it.
I will certainly try to post on them.
Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming

Sounds awful!!

What is the optimum temperature.....to minimize flooding and droughts? Link?
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.


Article December 2018:

" While much climate research relies on complex models to make projections, this new work interprets already-observed monthly rainfall data from 50,000 weather stations around the world. “That’s not to say models are not good,” Dr. Lehmann said in an interview, but his observational data “fits what we expect from physics and what models also show.” "

"Stephanie C. Herring, a climate scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and an author of the report, said that, over the years, the attribution work has helped to establish the present-day effects of climate change.

“We’re taking out that factor of ‘climate change might impact us someday,’ ” she said. “Climate change is impacting us now.”

The message of the studies is “painfully clear,” said Heidi Cullen, a climate scientist with the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. “Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said. “And the more we burn coal, oil and gas, the worse it will get.”

" More records for both wet and dry weather are being set around the globe, often with disastrous consequences for the people facing such extremes, according to a study published Wednesday that offered new evidence of climate change’s impacts in the here and now. ..."
 

Toddsterpatriot

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It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop? ... these things violate the laws of thermodynamics unless you can explain how they don't ... the main feedback loop here is clouds will be increasing which lowers temperatures, but this is a negative feedback ... reducing temperatures as time goes forward ... look at the ice core data ... why didn't these "tipping points" happen during previous inter-glaciations? ... what magic are you relying on with your claim? ...

You didn't say how this changes climate either ...
For example:
" 10. One of the most striking quantitative findings concerns the loss of biodiversity. It predicts the proportion of species that will lose half their geographic range. Out of 105,000 species studied, the rate doubles between 1.5C and 2C warming to 16% for plants and 8% for vertebrates, and triples to 18% for insects."
We can go through each of these 37 weasel statements if you'd like ... but you just copy/pasted one:

The main cause for species loss is habitat destruction ... cutting down a forest and planting corn ... and we are over-fishing our oceans ... and these are accelerated by increasing human populations ... global warming will only have a trivial effect on species loss as long as we continue farming and fishing ... more people to feed means more loss of species ...

Ever notice the great mega-fauna extinction events in the past 50,000 years were coincident with the arrival of humans? ... famously here in North America 15,000 years ago, but also Australia 40,000 years ago ... many many species have gone extinct long before industrial times ...

Sounds like you're okay with clear-cutting the rain forests, dumping toxic waste in our rivers and stripping the oceans of all life forms larger than a rat ... in your claim above, you say it's only the warming that's bad, everything else is fine ...

How many species are thriving behind human's destructiveness ... lampreys, coyotes, coronaviruses, Johnson grass, zebra mussels ... the list goes on ... plus the warmer temperatures and more abundant CO2 will benefit plants in general, and benefit human food plants specifically ... especially since rainfall will increase and be more evenly distributed ... slight increases in temperature means slight increases in rain, not near enough to solve our water problems or counter-act human procreation ...

Human population quadrupled in just the last 100 years ... it will not quadruple in the next 100 years ... if population only doubles, we still have negative outcomes for 16 billion people ... all this death and misery from causes completely unrelated to global warming ...

"A Bengal tiger. Global warming puts more species at risk of habitat loss and extinction"

Falsehood ... human predation and clearing the forests is what's killing off all the tigers, not global warming ... and of the panthers; lions, tigers and jaguars are in trouble; but leopards are growing in population and expanding their ranges ... ecological niches don't stay empty for long ...
Habitat destruction is linked to point 10 - the loss of biodiversity. I never posted global warming in earth's main problem. If you actually looked at the links to our literature on this you would have realized I believe global warming is just one of many serious ways man is ruining the earth.

You are partly correct and partly in error. Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming - obviously not in the same place at the same time.

There are many man-caused problems - here are a few that you posted about>

1. Overpopulation - though this is really only a problem because of the activities of said population. I could go into detail on that if you would like me to.

2. Habitat destruction. But global warming is one way habitats are being destroyed by man. Other ways include use of pesticides and herbicides in farming, and the failure to contain fertilizers on farmland. For example, huge dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico are caused by this.

Growing one crop also causes lack of biodiversity - not to mention other problems.

Slash and burn does not just add CO2 - it destroys whole ecosystems! Worse that clear-cutting though that is a problem as well. There are advantages to having a reasonable amount of old-growth forests.

3. Over fishing and human predation. Certainly another problem. There are actually health advantages to eating less meat (and fish) and more vegetation. Just having a few hundred types of fruits and vegetables is a related problem. There is an enormous amount of variety in edible plants. Two examples: the common violet (NOT the African violet) and common chickweed.

The more the variety of plants grown for food the more biodiversity. However, organic gardening is required.

Well, the list could go on - I will start a thread on the many ways man is ruining the earth. I have been posting on the subject of global warming because of the lies and deceptions about this being posted on this forum.

Are there threads on biodiversity, deforestation, over fishing, air pollution, water pollution, ocean pollution, loss of top soil, poisons in foods and food containers, thawing of pathogens due to the thawing of the arctic permafrost, hunting (especially for sport or poaching), fences, oil/petroleum produce pollution (e.g. oil spills, pipeline leaks, etc.)?

If you post a URL for a thread in this forum on any of these subjects or on any subject involving the environment - I will try to post on it.
I will certainly try to post on them.
Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming

Sounds awful!!

What is the optimum temperature.....to minimize flooding and droughts? Link?
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.


Article December 2018:

" While much climate research relies on complex models to make projections, this new work interprets already-observed monthly rainfall data from 50,000 weather stations around the world. “That’s not to say models are not good,” Dr. Lehmann said in an interview, but his observational data “fits what we expect from physics and what models also show.” "

"Stephanie C. Herring, a climate scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and an author of the report, said that, over the years, the attribution work has helped to establish the present-day effects of climate change.

“We’re taking out that factor of ‘climate change might impact us someday,’ ” she said. “Climate change is impacting us now.”

The message of the studies is “painfully clear,” said Heidi Cullen, a climate scientist with the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. “Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said. “And the more we burn coal, oil and gas, the worse it will get.”

" More records for both wet and dry weather are being set around the globe, often with disastrous consequences for the people facing such extremes, according to a study published Wednesday that offered new evidence of climate change’s impacts in the here and now. ..."
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.

When was that? What was the optimum temperature? Link?

“Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said.

Baloney.
 
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Newtonian

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Newtonian writes:

It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
It was at least that warm or warmer early in the interglacial period, but nothing terrible happened.

I have seen the claims of tipping points and feedback loops for years now, they are dumb today as they were 25 years ago.
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.

Do you actually believe what you post? Or are you simply trying to deceive people?
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.


Exactly!!!
And that's why we need to waste...err...invest trillions in less reliable, "green energy".
Interesting tangent. I have a number of questions and comments on that. A few:

1. The Antarctic Coast has the windiest regions on the planet - this is huge potential energy source - why isn't it being utilized more?

2. Why are there so few partly underground homes which lower the need for heating and cooling. Ever visited a cave during winter cold or summer heat?

3. Why are so many roofs dark colored instead of white - an easy way to slow global warming by reflecting solar energy back into space.

4. Related to that, why so few 'green roofs' where residents can grow food and flowers on their roofs?

5. Why so few cross-continent man-made rivers to alleviate flooding and drought? These could be partly underground btw.

Bottom line - we have the technology to solve most problems (not Corona virus however). The real problem is earth's moral breakdown including greed and lack of love.
The Antarctic Coast has the windiest regions on the planet - this is huge potential energy source - why isn't it being utilized more?

Because it would take a looooong fucking extension cord, idiot.


Why are there so few partly underground homes which lower the need for heating and cooling.

How much would it cost, how much would it save?

Why are so many roofs dark colored instead of white - an easy way to slow global warming by reflecting solar energy back into space.

You should definitely color your's white.

Related to that, why so few 'green roofs' where residents can grow food and flowers on their roofs?

Flat roofs on Chicago houses would be stupid. You should feel free.

Bottom line - we have the technology to solve most problems

You never answered, how many new nuclear plants should we build?

The real problem is earth's moral breakdown including greed and lack of love.

And ignorance of economics, but there is hope for you yet.
Ah, you took the bait!


"

The world’s southern-most continent received its largest wind farm, powering antarctic stations Scott Base from New Zealand and the US McMurdo Station. The farm has three wind turbines, whereas Antarctica’s only other wind farm at Australia’s Mawson Station, only has two.

The farm sits on the base of Crater Hill, which is on the tip of Ross Island. The three wind turbines will take place of the base’s generators and will reportedly cut cost by 11%, saving 122 gallons of fuel. These specific turbines have been specifically engineered to endure the cold (temperatures can drop to as low as -76 Fahrenheit), and they tried to avoid using as many moving parts as possible; hence, these turbines do not have gearboxes."




Wind turbine
Wind power has low environmental impact
Two 300kW wind turbines were installed at Mawson in 2003 and now make a significant contribution to the station’s power requirements.
The Mawson wind turbine system ranks among the world’s most innovative, and is capable of providing 600kW of renewable power. Studies in the early 1990s revealed that the constant katabatic winds blowing from the inland of the continent make Mawson ideally situated to generate the bulk of its energy requirements with wind turbines. Australia is the first country to obtain a significant electricity supply for its Antarctic stations fuelled by the most powerful winds on the planet.

" When the wind resource exceeds around 40% of the station load, short-term energy storage systems such as fly-wheels, batteries or hydrogen powered fuel cells are required to hold the station load while different combinations of wind and diesel are switched onto the grid."

However, the winds in Antarctica are more fierce than any other place on the planet:


"The head of a wind turbine lies on the ground at Australia's Antarctic Division's Mawson station after it broke off narrowly missing a storage building
The blades of a wind turbine at an Australian Antarctic base broke off and narrowly missed a storage building as they crashed to the ground, officials said Wednesday, forcing the icy outpost to switch to backup power."
 
OP
N

Newtonian

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It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop? ... these things violate the laws of thermodynamics unless you can explain how they don't ... the main feedback loop here is clouds will be increasing which lowers temperatures, but this is a negative feedback ... reducing temperatures as time goes forward ... look at the ice core data ... why didn't these "tipping points" happen during previous inter-glaciations? ... what magic are you relying on with your claim? ...

You didn't say how this changes climate either ...
For example:
" 10. One of the most striking quantitative findings concerns the loss of biodiversity. It predicts the proportion of species that will lose half their geographic range. Out of 105,000 species studied, the rate doubles between 1.5C and 2C warming to 16% for plants and 8% for vertebrates, and triples to 18% for insects."
We can go through each of these 37 weasel statements if you'd like ... but you just copy/pasted one:

The main cause for species loss is habitat destruction ... cutting down a forest and planting corn ... and we are over-fishing our oceans ... and these are accelerated by increasing human populations ... global warming will only have a trivial effect on species loss as long as we continue farming and fishing ... more people to feed means more loss of species ...

Ever notice the great mega-fauna extinction events in the past 50,000 years were coincident with the arrival of humans? ... famously here in North America 15,000 years ago, but also Australia 40,000 years ago ... many many species have gone extinct long before industrial times ...

Sounds like you're okay with clear-cutting the rain forests, dumping toxic waste in our rivers and stripping the oceans of all life forms larger than a rat ... in your claim above, you say it's only the warming that's bad, everything else is fine ...

How many species are thriving behind human's destructiveness ... lampreys, coyotes, coronaviruses, Johnson grass, zebra mussels ... the list goes on ... plus the warmer temperatures and more abundant CO2 will benefit plants in general, and benefit human food plants specifically ... especially since rainfall will increase and be more evenly distributed ... slight increases in temperature means slight increases in rain, not near enough to solve our water problems or counter-act human procreation ...

Human population quadrupled in just the last 100 years ... it will not quadruple in the next 100 years ... if population only doubles, we still have negative outcomes for 16 billion people ... all this death and misery from causes completely unrelated to global warming ...

"A Bengal tiger. Global warming puts more species at risk of habitat loss and extinction"

Falsehood ... human predation and clearing the forests is what's killing off all the tigers, not global warming ... and of the panthers; lions, tigers and jaguars are in trouble; but leopards are growing in population and expanding their ranges ... ecological niches don't stay empty for long ...
Habitat destruction is linked to point 10 - the loss of biodiversity. I never posted global warming in earth's main problem. If you actually looked at the links to our literature on this you would have realized I believe global warming is just one of many serious ways man is ruining the earth.

You are partly correct and partly in error. Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming - obviously not in the same place at the same time.

There are many man-caused problems - here are a few that you posted about>

1. Overpopulation - though this is really only a problem because of the activities of said population. I could go into detail on that if you would like me to.

2. Habitat destruction. But global warming is one way habitats are being destroyed by man. Other ways include use of pesticides and herbicides in farming, and the failure to contain fertilizers on farmland. For example, huge dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico are caused by this.

Growing one crop also causes lack of biodiversity - not to mention other problems.

Slash and burn does not just add CO2 - it destroys whole ecosystems! Worse that clear-cutting though that is a problem as well. There are advantages to having a reasonable amount of old-growth forests.

3. Over fishing and human predation. Certainly another problem. There are actually health advantages to eating less meat (and fish) and more vegetation. Just having a few hundred types of fruits and vegetables is a related problem. There is an enormous amount of variety in edible plants. Two examples: the common violet (NOT the African violet) and common chickweed.

The more the variety of plants grown for food the more biodiversity. However, organic gardening is required.

Well, the list could go on - I will start a thread on the many ways man is ruining the earth. I have been posting on the subject of global warming because of the lies and deceptions about this being posted on this forum.

Are there threads on biodiversity, deforestation, over fishing, air pollution, water pollution, ocean pollution, loss of top soil, poisons in foods and food containers, thawing of pathogens due to the thawing of the arctic permafrost, hunting (especially for sport or poaching), fences, oil/petroleum produce pollution (e.g. oil spills, pipeline leaks, etc.)?

If you post a URL for a thread in this forum on any of these subjects or on any subject involving the environment - I will try to post on it.
I will certainly try to post on them.
Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming

Sounds awful!!

What is the optimum temperature.....to minimize flooding and droughts? Link?
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.


Article December 2018:

" While much climate research relies on complex models to make projections, this new work interprets already-observed monthly rainfall data from 50,000 weather stations around the world. “That’s not to say models are not good,” Dr. Lehmann said in an interview, but his observational data “fits what we expect from physics and what models also show.” "

"Stephanie C. Herring, a climate scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and an author of the report, said that, over the years, the attribution work has helped to establish the present-day effects of climate change.

“We’re taking out that factor of ‘climate change might impact us someday,’ ” she said. “Climate change is impacting us now.”

The message of the studies is “painfully clear,” said Heidi Cullen, a climate scientist with the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. “Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said. “And the more we burn coal, oil and gas, the worse it will get.”

" More records for both wet and dry weather are being set around the globe, often with disastrous consequences for the people facing such extremes, according to a study published Wednesday that offered new evidence of climate change’s impacts in the here and now. ..."
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.

When was that? What was the optimum temperature? Link?

“Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said.

Baloney.
I have been giving links - you either do not believe the sources I am quoting or have not read the scientific
articles. Does Greta Thunberg's reference to 1.5 degrees C global warming since before the industrial revolution ring a bell?
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Newtonian writes:

It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
It was at least that warm or warmer early in the interglacial period, but nothing terrible happened.

I have seen the claims of tipping points and feedback loops for years now, they are dumb today as they were 25 years ago.
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.

Do you actually believe what you post? Or are you simply trying to deceive people?
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.


Exactly!!!
And that's why we need to waste...err...invest trillions in less reliable, "green energy".
Interesting tangent. I have a number of questions and comments on that. A few:

1. The Antarctic Coast has the windiest regions on the planet - this is huge potential energy source - why isn't it being utilized more?

2. Why are there so few partly underground homes which lower the need for heating and cooling. Ever visited a cave during winter cold or summer heat?

3. Why are so many roofs dark colored instead of white - an easy way to slow global warming by reflecting solar energy back into space.

4. Related to that, why so few 'green roofs' where residents can grow food and flowers on their roofs?

5. Why so few cross-continent man-made rivers to alleviate flooding and drought? These could be partly underground btw.

Bottom line - we have the technology to solve most problems (not Corona virus however). The real problem is earth's moral breakdown including greed and lack of love.
The Antarctic Coast has the windiest regions on the planet - this is huge potential energy source - why isn't it being utilized more?

Because it would take a looooong fucking extension cord, idiot.


Why are there so few partly underground homes which lower the need for heating and cooling.

How much would it cost, how much would it save?

Why are so many roofs dark colored instead of white - an easy way to slow global warming by reflecting solar energy back into space.

You should definitely color your's white.

Related to that, why so few 'green roofs' where residents can grow food and flowers on their roofs?

Flat roofs on Chicago houses would be stupid. You should feel free.

Bottom line - we have the technology to solve most problems

You never answered, how many new nuclear plants should we build?

The real problem is earth's moral breakdown including greed and lack of love.

And ignorance of economics, but there is hope for you yet.
Ah, you took the bait!


"

The world’s southern-most continent received its largest wind farm, powering antarctic stations Scott Base from New Zealand and the US McMurdo Station. The farm has three wind turbines, whereas Antarctica’s only other wind farm at Australia’s Mawson Station, only has two.

The farm sits on the base of Crater Hill, which is on the tip of Ross Island. The three wind turbines will take place of the base’s generators and will reportedly cut cost by 11%, saving 122 gallons of fuel. These specific turbines have been specifically engineered to endure the cold (temperatures can drop to as low as -76 Fahrenheit), and they tried to avoid using as many moving parts as possible; hence, these turbines do not have gearboxes."



Wind turbineWind power has low environmental impact
Two 300kW wind turbines were installed at Mawson in 2003 and now make a significant contribution to the station’s power requirements.
The Mawson wind turbine system ranks among the world’s most innovative, and is capable of providing 600kW of renewable power. Studies in the early 1990s revealed that the constant katabatic winds blowing from the inland of the continent make Mawson ideally situated to generate the bulk of its energy requirements with wind turbines. Australia is the first country to obtain a significant electricity supply for its Antarctic stations fuelled by the most powerful winds on the planet.

" When the wind resource exceeds around 40% of the station load, short-term energy storage systems such as fly-wheels, batteries or hydrogen powered fuel cells are required to hold the station load while different combinations of wind and diesel are switched onto the grid."

However, the winds in Antarctica are more fierce than any other place on the planet:


"The head of a wind turbine lies on the ground at Australia's Antarctic Division's Mawson station after it broke off narrowly missing a storage building
The blades of a wind turbine at an Australian Antarctic base broke off and narrowly missed a storage building as they crashed to the ground, officials said Wednesday, forcing the icy outpost to switch to backup power."
saving 122 gallons of fuel.

We're saved!!
 

Toddsterpatriot

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It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop? ... these things violate the laws of thermodynamics unless you can explain how they don't ... the main feedback loop here is clouds will be increasing which lowers temperatures, but this is a negative feedback ... reducing temperatures as time goes forward ... look at the ice core data ... why didn't these "tipping points" happen during previous inter-glaciations? ... what magic are you relying on with your claim? ...

You didn't say how this changes climate either ...
For example:
" 10. One of the most striking quantitative findings concerns the loss of biodiversity. It predicts the proportion of species that will lose half their geographic range. Out of 105,000 species studied, the rate doubles between 1.5C and 2C warming to 16% for plants and 8% for vertebrates, and triples to 18% for insects."
We can go through each of these 37 weasel statements if you'd like ... but you just copy/pasted one:

The main cause for species loss is habitat destruction ... cutting down a forest and planting corn ... and we are over-fishing our oceans ... and these are accelerated by increasing human populations ... global warming will only have a trivial effect on species loss as long as we continue farming and fishing ... more people to feed means more loss of species ...

Ever notice the great mega-fauna extinction events in the past 50,000 years were coincident with the arrival of humans? ... famously here in North America 15,000 years ago, but also Australia 40,000 years ago ... many many species have gone extinct long before industrial times ...

Sounds like you're okay with clear-cutting the rain forests, dumping toxic waste in our rivers and stripping the oceans of all life forms larger than a rat ... in your claim above, you say it's only the warming that's bad, everything else is fine ...

How many species are thriving behind human's destructiveness ... lampreys, coyotes, coronaviruses, Johnson grass, zebra mussels ... the list goes on ... plus the warmer temperatures and more abundant CO2 will benefit plants in general, and benefit human food plants specifically ... especially since rainfall will increase and be more evenly distributed ... slight increases in temperature means slight increases in rain, not near enough to solve our water problems or counter-act human procreation ...

Human population quadrupled in just the last 100 years ... it will not quadruple in the next 100 years ... if population only doubles, we still have negative outcomes for 16 billion people ... all this death and misery from causes completely unrelated to global warming ...

"A Bengal tiger. Global warming puts more species at risk of habitat loss and extinction"

Falsehood ... human predation and clearing the forests is what's killing off all the tigers, not global warming ... and of the panthers; lions, tigers and jaguars are in trouble; but leopards are growing in population and expanding their ranges ... ecological niches don't stay empty for long ...
Habitat destruction is linked to point 10 - the loss of biodiversity. I never posted global warming in earth's main problem. If you actually looked at the links to our literature on this you would have realized I believe global warming is just one of many serious ways man is ruining the earth.

You are partly correct and partly in error. Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming - obviously not in the same place at the same time.

There are many man-caused problems - here are a few that you posted about>

1. Overpopulation - though this is really only a problem because of the activities of said population. I could go into detail on that if you would like me to.

2. Habitat destruction. But global warming is one way habitats are being destroyed by man. Other ways include use of pesticides and herbicides in farming, and the failure to contain fertilizers on farmland. For example, huge dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico are caused by this.

Growing one crop also causes lack of biodiversity - not to mention other problems.

Slash and burn does not just add CO2 - it destroys whole ecosystems! Worse that clear-cutting though that is a problem as well. There are advantages to having a reasonable amount of old-growth forests.

3. Over fishing and human predation. Certainly another problem. There are actually health advantages to eating less meat (and fish) and more vegetation. Just having a few hundred types of fruits and vegetables is a related problem. There is an enormous amount of variety in edible plants. Two examples: the common violet (NOT the African violet) and common chickweed.

The more the variety of plants grown for food the more biodiversity. However, organic gardening is required.

Well, the list could go on - I will start a thread on the many ways man is ruining the earth. I have been posting on the subject of global warming because of the lies and deceptions about this being posted on this forum.

Are there threads on biodiversity, deforestation, over fishing, air pollution, water pollution, ocean pollution, loss of top soil, poisons in foods and food containers, thawing of pathogens due to the thawing of the arctic permafrost, hunting (especially for sport or poaching), fences, oil/petroleum produce pollution (e.g. oil spills, pipeline leaks, etc.)?

If you post a URL for a thread in this forum on any of these subjects or on any subject involving the environment - I will try to post on it.
I will certainly try to post on them.
Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming

Sounds awful!!

What is the optimum temperature.....to minimize flooding and droughts? Link?
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.


Article December 2018:

" While much climate research relies on complex models to make projections, this new work interprets already-observed monthly rainfall data from 50,000 weather stations around the world. “That’s not to say models are not good,” Dr. Lehmann said in an interview, but his observational data “fits what we expect from physics and what models also show.” "

"Stephanie C. Herring, a climate scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and an author of the report, said that, over the years, the attribution work has helped to establish the present-day effects of climate change.

“We’re taking out that factor of ‘climate change might impact us someday,’ ” she said. “Climate change is impacting us now.”

The message of the studies is “painfully clear,” said Heidi Cullen, a climate scientist with the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. “Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said. “And the more we burn coal, oil and gas, the worse it will get.”

" More records for both wet and dry weather are being set around the globe, often with disastrous consequences for the people facing such extremes, according to a study published Wednesday that offered new evidence of climate change’s impacts in the here and now. ..."
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.

When was that? What was the optimum temperature? Link?

“Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said.

Baloney.
I have been giving links - you either do not believe the sources I am quoting or have not read the scientific
articles. Does Greta Thunberg's reference to 1.5 degrees C global warming since before the industrial revolution ring a bell?
I have been giving links

Yeah, that opinion piece from the New York Times was very impressive!!!

Didn't answer my questions though. Try again.

When was that? What was the optimum temperature? Link?

Does Greta Thunberg's reference to 1.5 degrees C global warming since before the industrial revolution ring a bell?

Yes, her whining rings a bell. So what?
 

Drop Dead Fred

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Global warming is real. Here are four scientifically proven facts about it:

1) According to this article from Live Science, back when the dinosaurs were alive, carbon dioxide levels in the air were five times as high as they are today. But the world did not end. On the contrary, life thrived, and the world had its biggest land animals of all time.

Source: Dinosaur Era Had 5 Times Today's CO2

2) According to this article from the BBC, back when the dinosaurs were alive, global temperatures were so high that there were no polar ice caps. But the world did not end. On the contrary, life thrived, and the world had its biggest land animals of all time.

Source: Secrets of Antarctica's fossilised forests

3) According to this article from the Ontario Ministry of Agricultural, Food, and Rural Affairs, the owners of commercial greenhouses deliberately pump extra carbon dioxide into the air inside their greenhouses. But this has not caused the world to end. On the contrary, it makes the plants inside the greenhouses grow better.

Source: Carbon Dioxide In Greenhouses

4) According to this article from NASA, humans’ burning of fossil fuels has caused an increase in the amount of carbon dioxide in the air. But the world did not end. On the contrary, the title of the NASA article is “Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds.”

Source: Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds
 

Sunsettommy

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It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop? ... these things violate the laws of thermodynamics unless you can explain how they don't ... the main feedback loop here is clouds will be increasing which lowers temperatures, but this is a negative feedback ... reducing temperatures as time goes forward ... look at the ice core data ... why didn't these "tipping points" happen during previous inter-glaciations? ... what magic are you relying on with your claim? ...

You didn't say how this changes climate either ...
For example:
" 10. One of the most striking quantitative findings concerns the loss of biodiversity. It predicts the proportion of species that will lose half their geographic range. Out of 105,000 species studied, the rate doubles between 1.5C and 2C warming to 16% for plants and 8% for vertebrates, and triples to 18% for insects."
We can go through each of these 37 weasel statements if you'd like ... but you just copy/pasted one:

The main cause for species loss is habitat destruction ... cutting down a forest and planting corn ... and we are over-fishing our oceans ... and these are accelerated by increasing human populations ... global warming will only have a trivial effect on species loss as long as we continue farming and fishing ... more people to feed means more loss of species ...

Ever notice the great mega-fauna extinction events in the past 50,000 years were coincident with the arrival of humans? ... famously here in North America 15,000 years ago, but also Australia 40,000 years ago ... many many species have gone extinct long before industrial times ...

Sounds like you're okay with clear-cutting the rain forests, dumping toxic waste in our rivers and stripping the oceans of all life forms larger than a rat ... in your claim above, you say it's only the warming that's bad, everything else is fine ...

How many species are thriving behind human's destructiveness ... lampreys, coyotes, coronaviruses, Johnson grass, zebra mussels ... the list goes on ... plus the warmer temperatures and more abundant CO2 will benefit plants in general, and benefit human food plants specifically ... especially since rainfall will increase and be more evenly distributed ... slight increases in temperature means slight increases in rain, not near enough to solve our water problems or counter-act human procreation ...

Human population quadrupled in just the last 100 years ... it will not quadruple in the next 100 years ... if population only doubles, we still have negative outcomes for 16 billion people ... all this death and misery from causes completely unrelated to global warming ...

"A Bengal tiger. Global warming puts more species at risk of habitat loss and extinction"

Falsehood ... human predation and clearing the forests is what's killing off all the tigers, not global warming ... and of the panthers; lions, tigers and jaguars are in trouble; but leopards are growing in population and expanding their ranges ... ecological niches don't stay empty for long ...
Habitat destruction is linked to point 10 - the loss of biodiversity. I never posted global warming in earth's main problem. If you actually looked at the links to our literature on this you would have realized I believe global warming is just one of many serious ways man is ruining the earth.

You are partly correct and partly in error. Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming - obviously not in the same place at the same time.

There are many man-caused problems - here are a few that you posted about>

1. Overpopulation - though this is really only a problem because of the activities of said population. I could go into detail on that if you would like me to.

2. Habitat destruction. But global warming is one way habitats are being destroyed by man. Other ways include use of pesticides and herbicides in farming, and the failure to contain fertilizers on farmland. For example, huge dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico are caused by this.

Growing one crop also causes lack of biodiversity - not to mention other problems.

Slash and burn does not just add CO2 - it destroys whole ecosystems! Worse that clear-cutting though that is a problem as well. There are advantages to having a reasonable amount of old-growth forests.

3. Over fishing and human predation. Certainly another problem. There are actually health advantages to eating less meat (and fish) and more vegetation. Just having a few hundred types of fruits and vegetables is a related problem. There is an enormous amount of variety in edible plants. Two examples: the common violet (NOT the African violet) and common chickweed.

The more the variety of plants grown for food the more biodiversity. However, organic gardening is required.

Well, the list could go on - I will start a thread on the many ways man is ruining the earth. I have been posting on the subject of global warming because of the lies and deceptions about this being posted on this forum.

Are there threads on biodiversity, deforestation, over fishing, air pollution, water pollution, ocean pollution, loss of top soil, poisons in foods and food containers, thawing of pathogens due to the thawing of the arctic permafrost, hunting (especially for sport or poaching), fences, oil/petroleum produce pollution (e.g. oil spills, pipeline leaks, etc.)?

If you post a URL for a thread in this forum on any of these subjects or on any subject involving the environment - I will try to post on it.
I will certainly try to post on them.
Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming

Sounds awful!!

What is the optimum temperature.....to minimize flooding and droughts? Link?
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.


Article December 2018:

" While much climate research relies on complex models to make projections, this new work interprets already-observed monthly rainfall data from 50,000 weather stations around the world. “That’s not to say models are not good,” Dr. Lehmann said in an interview, but his observational data “fits what we expect from physics and what models also show.” "

"Stephanie C. Herring, a climate scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and an author of the report, said that, over the years, the attribution work has helped to establish the present-day effects of climate change.

“We’re taking out that factor of ‘climate change might impact us someday,’ ” she said. “Climate change is impacting us now.”

The message of the studies is “painfully clear,” said Heidi Cullen, a climate scientist with the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. “Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said. “And the more we burn coal, oil and gas, the worse it will get.”

" More records for both wet and dry weather are being set around the globe, often with disastrous consequences for the people facing such extremes, according to a study published Wednesday that offered new evidence of climate change’s impacts in the here and now. ..."
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.

When was that? What was the optimum temperature? Link?

“Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said.

Baloney.
I have been giving links - you either do not believe the sources I am quoting or have not read the scientific
articles. Does Greta Thunberg's reference to 1.5 degrees C global warming since before the industrial revolution ring a bell?
I have been giving links

Yeah, that opinion piece from the New York Times was very impressive!!!

Didn't answer my questions though. Try again.

When was that? What was the optimum temperature? Link?

Does Greta Thunberg's reference to 1.5 degrees C global warming since before the industrial revolution ring a bell?

Yes, her whining rings a bell. So what?
This dude is a cut and paste artist, but can't write a post in his own words, he thinks people are going to read a bunch of links over and over, yet can't summarize his posts at all.

He is also smitten with a kid who has no original thought in her head about global warming, she is a parrot and a hypocrite, but he doesn't see it at all.
 

Sunsettommy

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Newtonian writes:

It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
It was at least that warm or warmer early in the interglacial period, but nothing terrible happened.

I have seen the claims of tipping points and feedback loops for years now, they are dumb today as they were 25 years ago.
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.

Do you actually believe what you post? Or are you simply trying to deceive people?
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.


Exactly!!!
And that's why we need to waste...err...invest trillions in less reliable, "green energy".
Interesting tangent. I have a number of questions and comments on that. A few:

1. The Antarctic Coast has the windiest regions on the planet - this is huge potential energy source - why isn't it being utilized more?

2. Why are there so few partly underground homes which lower the need for heating and cooling. Ever visited a cave during winter cold or summer heat?

3. Why are so many roofs dark colored instead of white - an easy way to slow global warming by reflecting solar energy back into space.

4. Related to that, why so few 'green roofs' where residents can grow food and flowers on their roofs?

5. Why so few cross-continent man-made rivers to alleviate flooding and drought? These could be partly underground btw.

Bottom line - we have the technology to solve most problems (not Corona virus however). The real problem is earth's moral breakdown including greed and lack of love.
1) Did you account for the cost of installing transmission lines to South America, and the sheer distance it requires?

2) There are so few because people are unaware, even those ecoloonies never seem to notice it. I have been in one, my own Uncle in Colorado (west side) had one built to specification. He was a 40 year Biologist veteran.

3) The savings is minor for the trouble.

4) Flat roofs are a bad idea in most parts of the world. When I was working, I had to help clean up, drain and repair a flat roof a large public Library, in a dry climate it was still hard to prevent flooding and leaks. Two different years there were over 6" deep of water on the flat roof! My brother had a house where part of the roof was flat, this is SEATTLE! He had to make numerous repairs to stop the leaks, with a LOT of tar used there, I helped him one year (1983) he finally gave up and moved far away to a hot city, one of the hottest in California.

5) Waaay too expensive, a lot of the floods are CAUSED by our use of the rivers in the first place, we try hard to PREVENT flooding, thus reduced its ability to shed excessive water when it is needed, instead we try to force all the water into the rivers themselves, thus is fails over and over.
 
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It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
Which tipping point? ... what feedback loop? ... these things violate the laws of thermodynamics unless you can explain how they don't ... the main feedback loop here is clouds will be increasing which lowers temperatures, but this is a negative feedback ... reducing temperatures as time goes forward ... look at the ice core data ... why didn't these "tipping points" happen during previous inter-glaciations? ... what magic are you relying on with your claim? ...

You didn't say how this changes climate either ...
For example:
" 10. One of the most striking quantitative findings concerns the loss of biodiversity. It predicts the proportion of species that will lose half their geographic range. Out of 105,000 species studied, the rate doubles between 1.5C and 2C warming to 16% for plants and 8% for vertebrates, and triples to 18% for insects."
We can go through each of these 37 weasel statements if you'd like ... but you just copy/pasted one:

The main cause for species loss is habitat destruction ... cutting down a forest and planting corn ... and we are over-fishing our oceans ... and these are accelerated by increasing human populations ... global warming will only have a trivial effect on species loss as long as we continue farming and fishing ... more people to feed means more loss of species ...

Ever notice the great mega-fauna extinction events in the past 50,000 years were coincident with the arrival of humans? ... famously here in North America 15,000 years ago, but also Australia 40,000 years ago ... many many species have gone extinct long before industrial times ...

Sounds like you're okay with clear-cutting the rain forests, dumping toxic waste in our rivers and stripping the oceans of all life forms larger than a rat ... in your claim above, you say it's only the warming that's bad, everything else is fine ...

How many species are thriving behind human's destructiveness ... lampreys, coyotes, coronaviruses, Johnson grass, zebra mussels ... the list goes on ... plus the warmer temperatures and more abundant CO2 will benefit plants in general, and benefit human food plants specifically ... especially since rainfall will increase and be more evenly distributed ... slight increases in temperature means slight increases in rain, not near enough to solve our water problems or counter-act human procreation ...

Human population quadrupled in just the last 100 years ... it will not quadruple in the next 100 years ... if population only doubles, we still have negative outcomes for 16 billion people ... all this death and misery from causes completely unrelated to global warming ...

"A Bengal tiger. Global warming puts more species at risk of habitat loss and extinction"

Falsehood ... human predation and clearing the forests is what's killing off all the tigers, not global warming ... and of the panthers; lions, tigers and jaguars are in trouble; but leopards are growing in population and expanding their ranges ... ecological niches don't stay empty for long ...
Habitat destruction is linked to point 10 - the loss of biodiversity. I never posted global warming in earth's main problem. If you actually looked at the links to our literature on this you would have realized I believe global warming is just one of many serious ways man is ruining the earth.

You are partly correct and partly in error. Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming - obviously not in the same place at the same time.

There are many man-caused problems - here are a few that you posted about>

1. Overpopulation - though this is really only a problem because of the activities of said population. I could go into detail on that if you would like me to.

2. Habitat destruction. But global warming is one way habitats are being destroyed by man. Other ways include use of pesticides and herbicides in farming, and the failure to contain fertilizers on farmland. For example, huge dead zones in the Gulf of Mexico are caused by this.

Growing one crop also causes lack of biodiversity - not to mention other problems.

Slash and burn does not just add CO2 - it destroys whole ecosystems! Worse that clear-cutting though that is a problem as well. There are advantages to having a reasonable amount of old-growth forests.

3. Over fishing and human predation. Certainly another problem. There are actually health advantages to eating less meat (and fish) and more vegetation. Just having a few hundred types of fruits and vegetables is a related problem. There is an enormous amount of variety in edible plants. Two examples: the common violet (NOT the African violet) and common chickweed.

The more the variety of plants grown for food the more biodiversity. However, organic gardening is required.

Well, the list could go on - I will start a thread on the many ways man is ruining the earth. I have been posting on the subject of global warming because of the lies and deceptions about this being posted on this forum.

Are there threads on biodiversity, deforestation, over fishing, air pollution, water pollution, ocean pollution, loss of top soil, poisons in foods and food containers, thawing of pathogens due to the thawing of the arctic permafrost, hunting (especially for sport or poaching), fences, oil/petroleum produce pollution (e.g. oil spills, pipeline leaks, etc.)?

If you post a URL for a thread in this forum on any of these subjects or on any subject involving the environment - I will try to post on it.
I will certainly try to post on them.
Both flooding and drought (including wildfires) are on the increase due to global warming

Sounds awful!!

What is the optimum temperature.....to minimize flooding and droughts? Link?
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.


Article December 2018:

" While much climate research relies on complex models to make projections, this new work interprets already-observed monthly rainfall data from 50,000 weather stations around the world. “That’s not to say models are not good,” Dr. Lehmann said in an interview, but his observational data “fits what we expect from physics and what models also show.” "

"Stephanie C. Herring, a climate scientist with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and an author of the report, said that, over the years, the attribution work has helped to establish the present-day effects of climate change.

“We’re taking out that factor of ‘climate change might impact us someday,’ ” she said. “Climate change is impacting us now.”

The message of the studies is “painfully clear,” said Heidi Cullen, a climate scientist with the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. “Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said. “And the more we burn coal, oil and gas, the worse it will get.”

" More records for both wet and dry weather are being set around the globe, often with disastrous consequences for the people facing such extremes, according to a study published Wednesday that offered new evidence of climate change’s impacts in the here and now. ..."
Obviously the way we were when droughts and floods were less severe.

When was that? What was the optimum temperature? Link?

“Burning fossil fuels is making our weather worse right now,” with greater likelihood of deadly heat waves, wildfires, droughts and floods, she said.

Baloney.
I have been giving links - you either do not believe the sources I am quoting or have not read the scientific
articles. Does Greta Thunberg's reference to 1.5 degrees C global warming since before the industrial revolution ring a bell?
I have been giving links

Yeah, that opinion piece from the New York Times was very impressive!!!

Didn't answer my questions though. Try again.

When was that? What was the optimum temperature? Link?

Does Greta Thunberg's reference to 1.5 degrees C global warming since before the industrial revolution ring a bell?

Yes, her whining rings a bell. So what?
It answers your question which you claim I did not answer.
 
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INter
Newtonian writes:

It is because of the tipping points and feedback loops involved with reaching 1.5 degrees C global warming.
It was at least that warm or warmer early in the interglacial period, but nothing terrible happened.

I have seen the claims of tipping points and feedback loops for years now, they are dumb today as they were 25 years ago.
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.

Do you actually believe what you post? Or are you simply trying to deceive people?
Which is why you can't post any evidence that the specific tipping points referred to by Greta Thunberg are invalid.


Exactly!!!
And that's why we need to waste...err...invest trillions in less reliable, "green energy".
Interesting tangent. I have a number of questions and comments on that. A few:

1. The Antarctic Coast has the windiest regions on the planet - this is huge potential energy source - why isn't it being utilized more?

2. Why are there so few partly underground homes which lower the need for heating and cooling. Ever visited a cave during winter cold or summer heat?

3. Why are so many roofs dark colored instead of white - an easy way to slow global warming by reflecting solar energy back into space.

4. Related to that, why so few 'green roofs' where residents can grow food and flowers on their roofs?

5. Why so few cross-continent man-made rivers to alleviate flooding and drought? These could be partly underground btw.

Bottom line - we have the technology to solve most problems (not Corona virus however). The real problem is earth's moral breakdown including greed and lack of love.
1) Did you account for the cost of installing transmission lines to South America, and the sheer distance it requires?

2) There are so few because people are unaware, even those ecoloonies never seem to notice it. I have been in one, my own Uncle in Colorado (west side) had one built to specification. He was a 40 year Biologist veteran.

3) The savings is minor for the trouble.

4) Flat roofs are a bad idea in most parts of the world. When I was working, I had to help clean up, drain and repair a flat roof a large public Library, in a dry climate it was still hard to prevent flooding and leaks. Two different years there were over 6" deep of water on the flat roof! My brother had a house where part of the roof was flat, this is SEATTLE! He had to make numerous repairs to stop the leaks, with a LOT of tar used there, I helped him one year (1983) he finally gave up and moved far away to a hot city, one of the hottest in California.

5) Waaay too expensive, a lot of the floods are CAUSED by our use of the rivers in the first place, we try hard to PREVENT flooding, thus reduced its ability to shed excessive water when it is needed, instead we try to force all the water into the rivers themselves, thus is fails over and over.
Ah, yes - economic interests often outweigh the interests of those of us who love our planet and treat it as a sacred gift from God.
 
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Back to the actual science Greta Thunberg wants us to listen to:

.

Introduction:

"

Global warming is the ongoing rise of the average temperature of the Earth's climate system and has been demonstrated by direct temperature measurements and by measurements of various effects of the warming.[1] It is a major aspect of climate change which, in addition to rising global surface temperatures,[2] also includes its effects, such as changes in precipitation.[3] While there have been prehistoric periods of global warming,[4] observed changes since the mid-20th century have been unprecedented in rate and scale.[5]


Observed temperature from NASA[6] vs the 1850–1900 average used by the IPCC as a pre-industrial baseline.[7] The primary driver for increased global temperatures in the industrial era is human activity, with natural forces adding variability.[8]
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concluded that "human influence on climate has been the dominant cause of observed warming since the mid-20th century".[9] These findings have been recognized by the national science academies of major nations and are not disputed by any scientific body of national or international standing.[10] The largest human influence has been the emission of greenhouse gases, with over 90% of the impact from carbon dioxide and methane.[11] Fossil fuel burning is the principal source of these gases, with agricultural emissions and deforestation also playing significant roles.[12] Climate sensitivity to these gases is impacted by feedbacks, such as loss of snow cover, increased water vapour, and melting permafrost.[13]."

See the article for more scientific documentation.

References 1-13


  1. IPCC AR5 WG1 Summary for Policymakers 2013, p. 4: Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, and since the 1950s, many of the observed changes are unprecedented over decades to millennia. The atmosphere and ocean have warmed, the amounts of snow and ice have diminished, sea level has risen, and the concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased; EPA 2016: The U.S. Global Change Research Program, the National Academy of Sciences, and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) have each independently concluded that warming of the climate system in recent decades is "unequivocal". This conclusion is not drawn from any one source of data but is based on multiple lines of evidence, including three worldwide temperature datasets showing nearly identical warming trends as well as numerous other independent indicators of global warming (e.g. rising sea levels, shrinking Arctic sea ice).
  2. ^ IPCC AR5 SYR Glossary 2014, p. 124: Global warming refers to the gradual increase, observed or projected, in global surface temperature, as one of the consequences of radiative forcing caused by anthropogenic emissions.; IPCC SR15 Ch1 2018, p. 51: "Global warming is defined in this report as an increase in combined surface air and sea surface temperatures averaged over the globe and over a 30-year period. Unless otherwise specified, warming is expressed relative to the period 1850–1900, used as an approximation of pre-industrial temperatures in AR5.".
  3. ^ Shaftel 2016; Associated Press, 22 September 2015: "The terms global warming and climate change can be used interchangeably. Climate change is more accurate scientifically to describe the various effects of greenhouse gases on the world because it includes extreme weather, storms and changes in rainfall patterns, ocean acidification and sea level.".
  4. ^ IPCC AR5 WG1 Ch5 2013, pp. 389, 399–400: "5: Information from Paleoclimate Archives: The PETM[around 55.5–55.3 million years ago] was marked by ... global warming of 4 °C to 7 °C ..... Deglacial global warming occurred in two main steps from 17.5 to 14.5 ka [thousand years ago] and 13.0 to 10.0 ka.
  5. ^ IPCC AR5 WG1 Summary for Policymakers 2013, p. 4: Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, and since the 1950s, many of the observed changes are unprecedented over decades to millennia. The atmosphere and ocean have warmed, the amounts of snow and ice have diminished, sea level has risen, and the concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased; IPCC SR15 Ch1 2018, p. 54: The abundant empirical evidence of the unprecedented rate and global scale of impact of human influence on the Earth System (Steffen et al., 2016; Waters et al., 2016) has led many scientists to call for an acknowledgement that the Earth has entered a new geological epoch: the Anthropocene.
  6. ^ Jump up to:a b c d "Global Annual Mean Surface Air Temperature Change". NASA. Retrieved 23 February 2020..
  7. ^ Jump up to:a b IPCC AR5 SYR Glossary 2014, p. 124.
  8. ^ USGCRP Chapter 3 2017 Figure 3.1 panel 2, Figure 3.3 panel 5.
  9. ^ Jump up to:a b IPCC SR15 Ch1 2018, p. 53.
  10. ^ Gleick, 7 January 2017; "Scientific Consensus: Earth's Climate is Warming". Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet. NASA JPL. Archived from the original on 28 March 2020. Retrieved 29 March 2020.
  11. ^ Jump up to:a b Olivier & Peters 2019, p. 14, 16–17.
  12. ^ Jump up to:a b c US EPA 2019.
  13. ^ Jump up to:a b c Met Office 2016.
 

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