GLOBAL WARMING? NASA says Antarctic has been COOLING for past

[skookerasbil]

the ruse is exceedingly well documented in THIS thread >>>

More Proof the skeptics are WINNING!! | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

hundreds of links........thousands of posts. Thread started by skeptics well over two years ago and has never left the first page of this forum!!!

Meanwhile,........every single AGW alarmist thread dies in a matter of hours or perhaps a few days.

 

[SSDD]

---
Yep, that's just wiki, but every other source agrees with them. If you've got a source that says the earth was in an ice age 3.6 million years ago, show it to us. Anyways, given that you pooched that so badly, it invalidates most of your rambling.

The graphs from the peer reviewed published work I gave you don't agree at all....to bad that, like crick, you can't look at one and get anything from it.

Solar output was 0.5% lower.

Sorry hairball...old science..outdated....new science had to deal with the dim sun frozen earth paradox....seems that science now thinks that the sun back then was a bit larger and brighter than what we see today..

The Panama isthmus, or lack of it, significantly changes climate. The creation of that isthmus totally rerouted ocean currents, and that significantly changed precipitation. More snowfall moved to the poles, which allowed the ice sheets to form on Greenland and Antarctica, changing albedo and reducing temperatures even more.

Is there no limit to your penchant for denial?

So, to explain the warming out of snowball earth, you wave your hands around and invoke unexplained magic.

Like I said....science isn't preaching a dim sun anymore...science is preaching a larger, brighter sun which eliminates the dim sun paradox. Guess skeptical science never mentioned it.

And aren't you people always claiming that volcanoes don't put out enough CO2 to dramatically alter the climate? Which is it?

The intelligent people understand that a small outgassing of CO2 over millions of years on a planet without CO2 sinks will slowly raise CO2 levels over those millions of years. That same rate of outgassing on a planet with active CO2 sinks won't raise CO2 levels at all, being the CO2 gets absorbed by the sinks. That's some basic math, science and logic there, so naturally you failed completely at it.[/QUOTE]

 

[frigidweirdo]

Your first statement is just an example of arrogance, we don't really need to discuss anything else about that.

Why...becasue you don't like to be reminded that what you believe is going to happen flies in the face of what already happened? Good argument. Clap your hands over your ears and scream LA LA LA as loud as you can so no fact can ever penetrate your brain.

As for whether I have a basis for what I have said about 400,000 years, actually I do.

You are looking at a very short term piece of time...one that only goes back about half way into the present ice age....My timeline goes back to the beginning of the present ice age and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that. Which is likely to provide a more valid insight into the climate of the earth?

The development of a species to make it to an advanced state has taken a lot of stability. Sure, there have been problems along the way, however humans were able to come out of it. Imagine if the world were throwing up situations where humans who prospered in one region were then unable to prosper and died out. Humanity simply wouldn't develop.

And you don't think dropping into an ice age constitutes a lack of stability? Humans didn't start really advancing till the onset of the holocene when the glaciers started retreating...the more they retreated the more advanced we became....had the ice age never happened, we might be 20 million years on now and in the stars instead of 20,000 or so and fretting over the non existent threat of CO2.

Why did nothing else develop like humans in the past? Probably because of a lack of stability with the Earth.

Evolution is a product of time....look at the long stable warm periods in history and compare it to the definitely unstable climatewe are living in now. Coming out of an ice age is inherently unstable...up and down up and down with the long term trend being up...look at history....temps climb to an average and then level off for millions of years.

You seem particularly unwilling to take anything from the past...why is that?

The world is maturing, getting less violent, climate is more stable, everything is becoming less of a problem, well, until we arrived.

Again...look at the long history and compare it to the recent history.....coming out of an ice age is not a stable time....it isn't till the ice age is over that the climate seems to stabilize.

If the world warms up to 60 degrees in the summer, do you think humans are just going to adapt to that? What about cows, and sheep, and pigs, our main meat food source?

The global mean is 58.6 degrees now...you are trembling and fretting over less than 2 degrees? What is wrong with you...clearly animals can adapt to changing climates as they have been doing it since life began here...what makes you think they won't continue adapt....and they have adapted to temperatures much higher than your feared 60 degrees...and if dumb animals can do it...then human beings, the most adaptable creatures to ever walk the earth will have no problem. Personally, I would be glad to see an end of very cold winter.

Not at all. You seem more intent on attacking that actually discussing this stuff.

If you read what I wrote, I said that the last 400,000 years show a stability in the climate that didn't exist before. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over and over again for you to catch up here. I'm not playing silly little games. If you want to discuss this, then do it properly.

I know that you want to look further back, and I'm not saying 'don't look back beyond 400,000 years ago', I'm saying when it comes to WHAT TO EXPECT from the climate right now, we can't be looking back beyond 400,000 years ago. Some things, like what the world was like with higher CO2 etc, you look back further, but this ISN'T what I'm talking about, so....

So I think dropping into an ice age is a lack of stability? No.

Stability isn't necessarily the same temperatures every year, every century, every millennium. Stability is that before the temperature rises and falls were much greater than the last 400,000 years. Stability is that they didn't follow a set pattern. The last 400,000 years has seen a set pattern, more or less, and through that we can see what SHOULD happen naturally.

Evolution is a product of time. However if the evolutionary process gets stopped by an extermination of all that process, then where are you? Nowhere, that's where.

As for your silly little statement about me not taking anything from the past, er.... I've posted what we believe happened for the last 400,000 years. Is that not the past? So you can top with your little jibes, it doesn't help your argument and just leads to me less likely to bother replying to you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

We also know that everything that happened when it went up to those levels was natural. What's happening now isn't natural.

What is happening in the climate now that is outside the boundaries of natural variability.....we know that CO2 levels well in excess of 1000pm are natural so our 400ppm is well within natural variability...the global mean temperature is on the cold side....so the temperature is within natural variability...what is currently outside the bounds of natural variability?

Also, we know that humans didn't exist under those conditions.

Is there any reason whatsoever to think that we couldn't? We know that life thrived under those conditions..and a great many animals which were not so different from modern animals lived just fine....what reason could you have to think that we couldn't?

One thing is knowing that no matter what happens, the Earth will still survive. The other is knowing that humans WON'T survive.

Based on what evidence? We are the most adaptable creatures that ever lived on this planet...and life of all sorts has thrived under every condition except the cold...your point of view is very interesting....you believe that we are capable of altering the climate of the planet, but don't accept that we are the most adaptable species that ever lived and that we couldn't adapt to a change of a few degrees. Upon what hard data do you base that belief....

Tell me, considering the long climate history of earth..what do you believe is the optimum temperature for life on planet earth? You really believe it is now still climbing out of an ice age?

What we know is that in the past, in the time before humans were on this planet, in the time when creatures were different, CO2 was higher. So... what?

Could humans live in a world with CO2 that high? With temperatures higher than what we experience on the planet right now? Doubtful.
And this IS the issue at hand.

Again, the Earth might be perfectly fine with more CO2 levels, with the extinction of many creatures. Are humans fine with this?

Is there any evidence to suggest we couldn't cope with 60 degree temperatures? You want to live in 60 degrees all summer? Air conditioning pumping out things, we'd have to live indoors, grow food indoors, do everything indoors. We possibly could do this, but it'd cost a lot more money than sorting out the climate now than pushing it into an unnatural (based on what the Earth should be right now) state of warmth.

 

[rdean]

GOP dum dums keep saying "global" and then point to one small part of the earth as proof. Do the dum dums even know what "global" means?

Haven't we been being told for decades that the Antarctic is the "canary in the coal mine"?...a harbinger of things to come for the entire globe? Or is it just a canary in the coal mine if they think it is warming.

Funny, that's the first time I ever heard that. And I've been around for many decades.

 

[rdean]

Your first statement is just an example of arrogance, we don't really need to discuss anything else about that.

Why...becasue you don't like to be reminded that what you believe is going to happen flies in the face of what already happened? Good argument. Clap your hands over your ears and scream LA LA LA as loud as you can so no fact can ever penetrate your brain.

As for whether I have a basis for what I have said about 400,000 years, actually I do.

You are looking at a very short term piece of time...one that only goes back about half way into the present ice age....My timeline goes back to the beginning of the present ice age and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that. Which is likely to provide a more valid insight into the climate of the earth?

The development of a species to make it to an advanced state has taken a lot of stability. Sure, there have been problems along the way, however humans were able to come out of it. Imagine if the world were throwing up situations where humans who prospered in one region were then unable to prosper and died out. Humanity simply wouldn't develop.

And you don't think dropping into an ice age constitutes a lack of stability? Humans didn't start really advancing till the onset of the holocene when the glaciers started retreating...the more they retreated the more advanced we became....had the ice age never happened, we might be 20 million years on now and in the stars instead of 20,000 or so and fretting over the non existent threat of CO2.

Why did nothing else develop like humans in the past? Probably because of a lack of stability with the Earth.

Evolution is a product of time....look at the long stable warm periods in history and compare it to the definitely unstable climatewe are living in now. Coming out of an ice age is inherently unstable...up and down up and down with the long term trend being up...look at history....temps climb to an average and then level off for millions of years.

You seem particularly unwilling to take anything from the past...why is that?

The world is maturing, getting less violent, climate is more stable, everything is becoming less of a problem, well, until we arrived.

Again...look at the long history and compare it to the recent history.....coming out of an ice age is not a stable time....it isn't till the ice age is over that the climate seems to stabilize.

If the world warms up to 60 degrees in the summer, do you think humans are just going to adapt to that? What about cows, and sheep, and pigs, our main meat food source?

The global mean is 58.6 degrees now...you are trembling and fretting over less than 2 degrees? What is wrong with you...clearly animals can adapt to changing climates as they have been doing it since life began here...what makes you think they won't continue adapt....and they have adapted to temperatures much higher than your feared 60 degrees...and if dumb animals can do it...then human beings, the most adaptable creatures to ever walk the earth will have no problem. Personally, I would be glad to see an end of very cold winter.

Not at all. You seem more intent on attacking that actually discussing this stuff.

If you read what I wrote, I said that the last 400,000 years show a stability in the climate that didn't exist before. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over and over again for you to catch up here. I'm not playing silly little games. If you want to discuss this, then do it properly.

I know that you want to look further back, and I'm not saying 'don't look back beyond 400,000 years ago', I'm saying when it comes to WHAT TO EXPECT from the climate right now, we can't be looking back beyond 400,000 years ago. Some things, like what the world was like with higher CO2 etc, you look back further, but this ISN'T what I'm talking about, so....

So I think dropping into an ice age is a lack of stability? No.

Stability isn't necessarily the same temperatures every year, every century, every millennium. Stability is that before the temperature rises and falls were much greater than the last 400,000 years. Stability is that they didn't follow a set pattern. The last 400,000 years has seen a set pattern, more or less, and through that we can see what SHOULD happen naturally.

Evolution is a product of time. However if the evolutionary process gets stopped by an extermination of all that process, then where are you? Nowhere, that's where.

As for your silly little statement about me not taking anything from the past, er.... I've posted what we believe happened for the last 400,000 years. Is that not the past? So you can top with your little jibes, it doesn't help your argument and just leads to me less likely to bother replying to you.

Evolution is a product of time. However if the evolutionary process gets stopped by an extermination of all that process, then where are you? Nowhere, that's where.

That doesn't even make sense. Evolution is more a product of environment. If the environment stays the same, there is no need for animals to evolve.

The more right wingers try to explain science, the more bewildering their bullshit.

But you have to admit, they are really, really imaginative.

 

[SSDD]

If you read what I wrote, I said that the last 400,000 years show a stability in the climate that didn't exist before. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over and over again for you to catch up here. I'm not playing silly little games. If you want to discuss this, then do it properly.

And on what do you base that claim? You are looking back mere seconds into the geological history of this planet and from that you can claim that there was no stability prior to the present ice age?

I know that you want to look further back, and I'm not saying 'don't look back beyond 400,000 years ago', I'm saying when it comes to WHAT TO EXPECT from the climate right now, we can't be looking back beyond 400,000 years ago. Some things, like what the world was like with higher CO2 etc, you look back further, but this ISN'T what I'm talking about, so....

Looking back only 400,000 years is just looking back further into the ice age...it is warming....what do you think the ice age will tell us about warming and what a warmer world is like....you have to look back to a time before the ice age in order to see where we are headed....unless you think we are about to go back into the deep freeze.

Stability isn't necessarily the same temperatures every year, every century, every millennium. Stability is that before the temperature rises and falls were much greater than the last 400,000 years. Stability is that they didn't follow a set pattern. The last 400,000 years has seen a set pattern, more or less, and through that we can see what SHOULD happen naturally.

What makes you think that there hasn't always been a pattern? You think the climate has only been cyclical for the past 400,000 years? You are making claims that you just can't support. They aren't based on any actual knowledge or evidence at all...you are just talking, apparently to be talking.

Evolution is a product of time. However if the evolutionary process gets stopped by an extermination of all that process, then where are you? Nowhere, that's where.

You don't think that the onset of the ice age put the evolution of our distant ancestors on hold?

As for your silly little statement about me not taking anything from the past, er.... I've posted what we believe happened for the last 400,000 years. Is that not the past? So you can top with your little jibes, it doesn't help your argument and just leads to me less likely to bother replying to you.

Taking about the climate history of earth but only looking back 400,000 years is like talking about the roman empire but only looking back to yesterday afternoon. 400,000 years is a blink of an eye in geological time....you aren't looking back far enough to do anything but fool yourself....and it is clear that you aren't interested in looking far enough back to see the bigger picture since the bigger picture doesn't agree with what you believe....you will continue to only look at what supports your position and refuse to see anything else. There is a name for that sort of behavior.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Your first statement is just an example of arrogance, we don't really need to discuss anything else about that.

Why...becasue you don't like to be reminded that what you believe is going to happen flies in the face of what already happened? Good argument. Clap your hands over your ears and scream LA LA LA as loud as you can so no fact can ever penetrate your brain.

As for whether I have a basis for what I have said about 400,000 years, actually I do.

You are looking at a very short term piece of time...one that only goes back about half way into the present ice age....My timeline goes back to the beginning of the present ice age and the one before that and the one before that and the one before that. Which is likely to provide a more valid insight into the climate of the earth?

The development of a species to make it to an advanced state has taken a lot of stability. Sure, there have been problems along the way, however humans were able to come out of it. Imagine if the world were throwing up situations where humans who prospered in one region were then unable to prosper and died out. Humanity simply wouldn't develop.

And you don't think dropping into an ice age constitutes a lack of stability? Humans didn't start really advancing till the onset of the holocene when the glaciers started retreating...the more they retreated the more advanced we became....had the ice age never happened, we might be 20 million years on now and in the stars instead of 20,000 or so and fretting over the non existent threat of CO2.

Why did nothing else develop like humans in the past? Probably because of a lack of stability with the Earth.

Evolution is a product of time....look at the long stable warm periods in history and compare it to the definitely unstable climatewe are living in now. Coming out of an ice age is inherently unstable...up and down up and down with the long term trend being up...look at history....temps climb to an average and then level off for millions of years.

You seem particularly unwilling to take anything from the past...why is that?

The world is maturing, getting less violent, climate is more stable, everything is becoming less of a problem, well, until we arrived.

Again...look at the long history and compare it to the recent history.....coming out of an ice age is not a stable time....it isn't till the ice age is over that the climate seems to stabilize.

If the world warms up to 60 degrees in the summer, do you think humans are just going to adapt to that? What about cows, and sheep, and pigs, our main meat food source?

The global mean is 58.6 degrees now...you are trembling and fretting over less than 2 degrees? What is wrong with you...clearly animals can adapt to changing climates as they have been doing it since life began here...what makes you think they won't continue adapt....and they have adapted to temperatures much higher than your feared 60 degrees...and if dumb animals can do it...then human beings, the most adaptable creatures to ever walk the earth will have no problem. Personally, I would be glad to see an end of very cold winter.

Not at all. You seem more intent on attacking that actually discussing this stuff.

If you read what I wrote, I said that the last 400,000 years show a stability in the climate that didn't exist before. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over and over again for you to catch up here. I'm not playing silly little games. If you want to discuss this, then do it properly.

I know that you want to look further back, and I'm not saying 'don't look back beyond 400,000 years ago', I'm saying when it comes to WHAT TO EXPECT from the climate right now, we can't be looking back beyond 400,000 years ago. Some things, like what the world was like with higher CO2 etc, you look back further, but this ISN'T what I'm talking about, so....

So I think dropping into an ice age is a lack of stability? No.

Stability isn't necessarily the same temperatures every year, every century, every millennium. Stability is that before the temperature rises and falls were much greater than the last 400,000 years. Stability is that they didn't follow a set pattern. The last 400,000 years has seen a set pattern, more or less, and through that we can see what SHOULD happen naturally.

Evolution is a product of time. However if the evolutionary process gets stopped by an extermination of all that process, then where are you? Nowhere, that's where.

As for your silly little statement about me not taking anything from the past, er.... I've posted what we believe happened for the last 400,000 years. Is that not the past? So you can top with your little jibes, it doesn't help your argument and just leads to me less likely to bother replying to you.

Evolution is a product of time. However if the evolutionary process gets stopped by an extermination of all that process, then where are you? Nowhere, that's where.

That doesn't even make sense. Evolution is more a product of environment. If the environment stays the same, there is no need for animals to evolve.

The more right wingers try to explain science, the more bewildering their bullshit.

But you have to admit, they are really, really imaginative.

This reply is confusing. You've copied and pasted what I said without quotation marks. Then tried to somehow claim this was written by a right winger, I'm not right wing. Are you replying to what I wrote or did you want to reply to what the other guy wrote?

 

[frigidweirdo]

If you read what I wrote, I said that the last 400,000 years show a stability in the climate that didn't exist before. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over and over again for you to catch up here. I'm not playing silly little games. If you want to discuss this, then do it properly.

And on what do you base that claim? You are looking back mere seconds into the geological history of this planet and from that you can claim that there was no stability prior to the present ice age?

I know that you want to look further back, and I'm not saying 'don't look back beyond 400,000 years ago', I'm saying when it comes to WHAT TO EXPECT from the climate right now, we can't be looking back beyond 400,000 years ago. Some things, like what the world was like with higher CO2 etc, you look back further, but this ISN'T what I'm talking about, so....

Looking back only 400,000 years is just looking back further into the ice age...it is warming....what do you think the ice age will tell us about warming and what a warmer world is like....you have to look back to a time before the ice age in order to see where we are headed....unless you think we are about to go back into the deep freeze.

Stability isn't necessarily the same temperatures every year, every century, every millennium. Stability is that before the temperature rises and falls were much greater than the last 400,000 years. Stability is that they didn't follow a set pattern. The last 400,000 years has seen a set pattern, more or less, and through that we can see what SHOULD happen naturally.

What makes you think that there hasn't always been a pattern? You think the climate has only been cyclical for the past 400,000 years? You are making claims that you just can't support. They aren't based on any actual knowledge or evidence at all...you are just talking, apparently to be talking.

Evolution is a product of time. However if the evolutionary process gets stopped by an extermination of all that process, then where are you? Nowhere, that's where.

You don't think that the onset of the ice age put the evolution of our distant ancestors on hold?

As for your silly little statement about me not taking anything from the past, er.... I've posted what we believe happened for the last 400,000 years. Is that not the past? So you can top with your little jibes, it doesn't help your argument and just leads to me less likely to bother replying to you.

Taking about the climate history of earth but only looking back 400,000 years is like talking about the roman empire but only looking back to yesterday afternoon. 400,000 years is a blink of an eye in geological time....you aren't looking back far enough to do anything but fool yourself....and it is clear that you aren't interested in looking far enough back to see the bigger picture since the bigger picture doesn't agree with what you believe....you will continue to only look at what supports your position and refuse to see anything else. There is a name for that sort of behavior.

Nothing you've just written hasn't been covered in previous posts. I'm not doing circles.

 

[SSDD]

Could humans live in a world with CO2 that high? With temperatures higher than what we experience on the planet right now? Doubtful.

So you think that the most adaptable creature that ever walked the face of the earth couldn't adapt to a couple of degrees of increased temperature? Hell, mankind rose to civilization when the temperature was a couple of degrees warmer than the present during the holocene optimum.

Tell me, what do you think the optimum temperature is for life on this planet? Do you think it is cold like the present?

Again, the Earth might be perfectly fine with more CO2 levels, with the extinction of many creatures. Are humans fine with this?

99% of all species that ever lived on earth are now extinct....its business as usual...some go...new ones emerge. survival of the fittest...and here is some news for you...we are the fittest species that has ever lived. And since most of the life we see here today was very similar to the life that existed before the ice age began...the life that survived the ice age that is..what makes you think that some mass extinction is in the works...

For that matter what proof do you have of any mass extinction at present...it's all computer models...you can't show any large number of species .....or even a small number of species who have gone extinct due to climate change....you seem to fear everything when you have no solid reason to fear anything.

You want to live in 60 degrees all summer? Air conditioning pumping out things, we'd have to live indoors, grow food indoors, do everything indoors. We possibly could do this, but it'd cost a lot more money than sorting out the climate now than pushing it into an unnatural (based on what the Earth should be right now) state of warmth.

I lived in key west for about a dozen years...the average high temperature is about 82 degrees and the average low temperature is about 73 degrees. We grew food outdoors and the growing season goes year round. I never spent a penny to heat my house and very little on AC....in a hot climate like that, all you really need to do is keep the air moving. You seem to have these crazy fears of things that just aren't scary?

 

[SSDD]

This reply is confusing. You've copied and pasted what I said without quotation marks. Then tried to somehow claim this was written by a right winger, I'm not right wing. Are you replying to what I wrote or did you want to reply to what the other guy wrote?

My error...disregard...I answered in another post.

 

[SSDD]

Nothing you've just written hasn't been covered in previous posts. I'm not doing circles.

You seem to be the one who is stuck...you can't bring yourself to look any further back than 400,000 years....that is just looking back into the ice age...since we are moving forward to warmer times, it doesn't make sense to look only back further into the ice age...a thinking person would look further back to what life might have been like before the ice age began...You can't do that because looking back further destroys all the straw men you have built up in your mind...it shows you that a warmer world will literally bloom with life...it shows you that life becomes more diverse as temperatures increase...it shows you that a greater percentage of the planet becomes farmable...it shows you all the things that you just don't want to see so you invent these scenarios of doom that have absolutely no basis in fact but are believable if you only look back 400,000 years into the climate history of the earth.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Could humans live in a world with CO2 that high? With temperatures higher than what we experience on the planet right now? Doubtful.

So you think that the most adaptable creature that ever walked the face of the earth couldn't adapt to a couple of degrees of increased temperature? Hell, mankind rose to civilization when the temperature was a couple of degrees warmer than the present during the holocene optimum.

Tell me, what do you think the optimum temperature is for life on this planet? Do you think it is cold like the present?

Again, the Earth might be perfectly fine with more CO2 levels, with the extinction of many creatures. Are humans fine with this?

99% of all species that ever lived on earth are now extinct....its business as usual...some go...new ones emerge. survival of the fittest...and here is some news for you...we are the fittest species that has ever lived. And since most of the life we see here today was very similar to the life that existed before the ice age began...the life that survived the ice age that is..what makes you think that some mass extinction is in the works...

For that matter what proof do you have of any mass extinction at present...it's all computer models...you can't show any large number of species .....or even a small number of species who have gone extinct due to climate change....you seem to fear everything when you have no solid reason to fear anything.

You want to live in 60 degrees all summer? Air conditioning pumping out things, we'd have to live indoors, grow food indoors, do everything indoors. We possibly could do this, but it'd cost a lot more money than sorting out the climate now than pushing it into an unnatural (based on what the Earth should be right now) state of warmth.

I lived in key west for about a dozen years...the average high temperature is about 82 degrees and the average low temperature is about 73 degrees. We grew food outdoors and the growing season goes year round. I never spent a penny to heat my house and very little on AC....in a hot climate like that, all you really need to do is keep the air moving. You seem to have these crazy fears of things that just aren't scary?

You make it sound as if it's just us that has to adapt to a few degrees increase.

What do we eat?

Even if we can adapt to the new food, what happens when we need to move. Say the seas rise, so the migration away from the coastal areas will cause major problems. Probably war, which will mean we're killing each other off. The amount of area we have to grow things, if we can eat things, will be reduced.

How many problems do you think will be caused by this.

Again, isn't it easier to solve problems now, rather than think about profit now and destroy everything for the future?


Again, it's not about an optimum temperature for life on this planet. It's an range in which humans can live and live without having major problems like I've suggested before.

So, animals get made extinct. But now we're more stable than before, should species be going extinct like before? No, but we're making that happen.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Nothing you've just written hasn't been covered in previous posts. I'm not doing circles.

You seem to be the one who is stuck...you can't bring yourself to look any further back than 400,000 years....that is just looking back into the ice age...since we are moving forward to warmer times, it doesn't make sense to look only back further into the ice age...a thinking person would look further back to what life might have been like before the ice age began...You can't do that because looking back further destroys all the straw men you have built up in your mind...it shows you that a warmer world will literally bloom with life...it shows you that life becomes more diverse as temperatures increase...it shows you that a greater percentage of the planet becomes farmable...it shows you all the things that you just don't want to see so you invent these scenarios of doom that have absolutely no basis in fact but are believable if you only look back 400,000 years into the climate history of the earth.

For ****'s sake. Will you stop harping on about nonsense?

I didn't say I wouldn't go back further than 400,000 years. I said what we're TALKING ABOUT, there isn't any point in going back further than 400,000 years.

If you can't get that, then I'm sorry, your problem, not mine.

 

[Freewill]

This is the same situation that is occurring in the USA. According to NASA data found here: Climate at a Glance | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

GLOBAL WARMING? NASA says Antarctic has been COOLING for past SIX years

An intensive scientific study of both Earth's poles has found that from 2009 to 2016 overall temperature has dropped in the southern polar region.

NASA’s Operation IceBridge is an airborne survey of polar ice and has finalised two overlapping research campaigns at both the poles.

In the last few weeks NASA has revealed the overall amount ofice has increased at the Antarctic and the amount of sea ice has also extended.

ouch

that cant be good news for the global warmist kooks

--LOL

I am not sure they read the news.

 

[Freewill]

Could humans live in a world with CO2 that high? With temperatures higher than what we experience on the planet right now? Doubtful.

So you think that the most adaptable creature that ever walked the face of the earth couldn't adapt to a couple of degrees of increased temperature? Hell, mankind rose to civilization when the temperature was a couple of degrees warmer than the present during the holocene optimum.

Tell me, what do you think the optimum temperature is for life on this planet? Do you think it is cold like the present?

Again, the Earth might be perfectly fine with more CO2 levels, with the extinction of many creatures. Are humans fine with this?

99% of all species that ever lived on earth are now extinct....its business as usual...some go...new ones emerge. survival of the fittest...and here is some news for you...we are the fittest species that has ever lived. And since most of the life we see here today was very similar to the life that existed before the ice age began...the life that survived the ice age that is..what makes you think that some mass extinction is in the works...

For that matter what proof do you have of any mass extinction at present...it's all computer models...you can't show any large number of species .....or even a small number of species who have gone extinct due to climate change....you seem to fear everything when you have no solid reason to fear anything.

You want to live in 60 degrees all summer? Air conditioning pumping out things, we'd have to live indoors, grow food indoors, do everything indoors. We possibly could do this, but it'd cost a lot more money than sorting out the climate now than pushing it into an unnatural (based on what the Earth should be right now) state of warmth.

I lived in key west for about a dozen years...the average high temperature is about 82 degrees and the average low temperature is about 73 degrees. We grew food outdoors and the growing season goes year round. I never spent a penny to heat my house and very little on AC....in a hot climate like that, all you really need to do is keep the air moving. You seem to have these crazy fears of things that just aren't scary?

You make it sound as if it's just us that has to adapt to a few degrees increase.

What do we eat?

Even if we can adapt to the new food, what happens when we need to move. Say the seas rise, so the migration away from the coastal areas will cause major problems. Probably war, which will mean we're killing each other off. The amount of area we have to grow things, if we can eat things, will be reduced.

How many problems do you think will be caused by this.

Again, isn't it easier to solve problems now, rather than think about profit now and destroy everything for the future?


Again, it's not about an optimum temperature for life on this planet. It's an range in which humans can live and live without having major problems like I've suggested before.

So, animals get made extinct. But now we're more stable than before, should species be going extinct like before? No, but we're making that happen.

Can we go back? Are you willing to quit driving?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Could humans live in a world with CO2 that high? With temperatures higher than what we experience on the planet right now? Doubtful.

So you think that the most adaptable creature that ever walked the face of the earth couldn't adapt to a couple of degrees of increased temperature? Hell, mankind rose to civilization when the temperature was a couple of degrees warmer than the present during the holocene optimum.

Tell me, what do you think the optimum temperature is for life on this planet? Do you think it is cold like the present?

Again, the Earth might be perfectly fine with more CO2 levels, with the extinction of many creatures. Are humans fine with this?

99% of all species that ever lived on earth are now extinct....its business as usual...some go...new ones emerge. survival of the fittest...and here is some news for you...we are the fittest species that has ever lived. And since most of the life we see here today was very similar to the life that existed before the ice age began...the life that survived the ice age that is..what makes you think that some mass extinction is in the works...

For that matter what proof do you have of any mass extinction at present...it's all computer models...you can't show any large number of species .....or even a small number of species who have gone extinct due to climate change....you seem to fear everything when you have no solid reason to fear anything.

You want to live in 60 degrees all summer? Air conditioning pumping out things, we'd have to live indoors, grow food indoors, do everything indoors. We possibly could do this, but it'd cost a lot more money than sorting out the climate now than pushing it into an unnatural (based on what the Earth should be right now) state of warmth.

I lived in key west for about a dozen years...the average high temperature is about 82 degrees and the average low temperature is about 73 degrees. We grew food outdoors and the growing season goes year round. I never spent a penny to heat my house and very little on AC....in a hot climate like that, all you really need to do is keep the air moving. You seem to have these crazy fears of things that just aren't scary?

You make it sound as if it's just us that has to adapt to a few degrees increase.

What do we eat?

Even if we can adapt to the new food, what happens when we need to move. Say the seas rise, so the migration away from the coastal areas will cause major problems. Probably war, which will mean we're killing each other off. The amount of area we have to grow things, if we can eat things, will be reduced.

How many problems do you think will be caused by this.

Again, isn't it easier to solve problems now, rather than think about profit now and destroy everything for the future?


Again, it's not about an optimum temperature for life on this planet. It's an range in which humans can live and live without having major problems like I've suggested before.

So, animals get made extinct. But now we're more stable than before, should species be going extinct like before? No, but we're making that happen.

Can we go back? Are you willing to quit driving?

I don't drive. I haven't driven since I passed my test many, many years ago. I walk to work, or take a bus.

 

[SSDD]

You make it sound as if it's just us that has to adapt to a few degrees increase.

Funny thing...I took my dog to key west with me when I moved there....he adapted also. You seem to have no problem ignoring the fact that for the entire history of earth, life has adapted to a changing climate....changes far more radical than we are seeing now. That's the problem with only taking a short peek into the past....take the longer view and you see that change and adaptation is business as usual on this planet.

What do we eat?

Geez guy, are you really this afraid? You are inventing boogie men. All the tropical stuff that we so enjoy that grows near the equator will still be there only we can grow it further north....the stuff that grows in the south... will move up to the mid atlantic....the stuff that grows on the plains will move north towards canada....draw the growth zones around the entire earth and just move them up a notch...much more of the planet becomes farmable....and it isn't as if this is going to happen in 2 weeks....we are taking about a very long term change. a fraction of a degree per century is nothing to get your panties in a bunch over.

Even if we can adapt to the new food, what happens when we need to move. Say the seas rise, so the migration away from the coastal areas will cause major problems. Probably war, which will mean we're killing each other off. The amount of area we have to grow things, if we can eat things, will be reduced.

What new food?....same old food just grown a little further north than the present...farmers can certainly adapt to new crops....or don't you think they can manage that?

As to sea level...look at the long term again....history tells us that eventually, it is going to get so warm that there will be no ice at one or both of the poles...it is inevitable...it is what happens on earth...sea level has risen by about 60 feet in the past 14K years....people move...its what we do. You seem unduly fearful of any change. The sky is not falling.

How many problems do you think will be caused by this.

Hell, I have been moving my whole life....hasn't caused any problems. People move...we are mobile. Let me guess...you live in the same town you went to kindergarten in....you have had the same friends since then as well....you can't imagine change. Not everyone is like that...How much disaster do you think the 60 feet of sea level increase caused in the past 14K years? People just move....its no big deal.

Again, isn't it easier to solve problems now, rather than think about profit now and destroy everything for the future?

You keep talking about the future, but you are unwilling to look at the past...it is going to get warm..it is not something that we are causing....we didn't cause it in the past and we aren't causing it now....the climate is cyclic and we are on a long term trend which will eventually leave no ice at the poles...it has happened over and over and over and over...the fact that you refuse to look back in the past is what makes this so scary for you...earth and all its life have adapted in the past and will continue to do so in the future. Damned strange that you imagine we have the power to alter the global climate but lack the power to adapt.

Again, it's not about an optimum temperature for life on this planet. It's an range in which humans can live and live without having major problems like I've suggested before.

No problems? Seriously? When have humans not had problems. And again, you just aren't thinking. On any given day the temperatures on earth range from about =100 to + 115 degrees F.....that is a 215 temperature range on any given day on planet earth and people live across that range...and you really don't believe we can adapt to a few degrees? Really guy...get a grip. Your fear is bordering pathological.

So, animals get made extinct. But now we're more stable than before, should species be going extinct like before? No, but we're making that happen.

More stable than before what? You are only willing to look back as far as yesterday afternoon into earth's history. You have absolutely no idea what the climate was like before...you are only willing to look further back in the ice age....as a result, you simply don't have a clue and as a result you are terrified of the unknown.. We have a good idea what life was like before the ice age began and it doesn't look to bad.

 

[SSDD]

For ****'s sake. Will you stop harping on about nonsense?

It is you who is harping on about nonsense...It is pretty clear that the long term trend is to move out of the ice age...that being the case, doesn't it make more sense to look at what life was like before the ice age began? We are coming out of an ice age and you are only willing to look back into the ice age for guidance....that is just stupid....it won't tell you a thing.

I didn't say I wouldn't go back further than 400,000 years. I said what we're TALKING ABOUT, there isn't any point in going further than 400,000 years.

And again, I ask why. it appears that the ice age is ending...with the ups and downs that go along with such a climate shift...but the long term is going to be warmer....why is there no point in looking far enough back into the past to see what it was like before the cold conditions (that we are still living in by the way) began?

If you can't get that, then I'm sorry, your problem, not mine.

Actually, it is your problem...look how afraid you are...you have imaginary fears coming from every orifice...that is a problem...not for me, but for you. You are living your life in fear of things that are fabrications...things upon which you have no basis for believing. You are in a panic for no good reason.

 

[SSDD]

I don't drive. I haven't driven since I passed my test many, many years ago. I walk to work, or take a bus.

Good for you...what about people who live in rural areas who drive 20 or 30 miles to work...you apparently fear moving but have no problem asking them to move closer to work...I know that is what you would suggest. Very hypocritical don't you think?