Giuliani Opposes Flat Tax

[red states rule]

But isn't it a redistribution of wealth when our governmt takes taxes from the middle class and gives it all to the military industrial complex, the Halliburtons, the KBR's of the world without thinking twice, and without stewardship, oversight?

Or when the gvt takes taxes any money from any tax bracket and spends it, isn't it essecially a "redistribution" of the individual's wealth?

The Northern coastal Democratic states give the feds in taxes MUCH more than they get back in return...?

Massachusetts only gets 76 cents on the dollar back in benefits from the fed spending compared to what they send there, but a state like Alaska gets back in federal spending $1.80 for every dollar they give the feds in income tax monies...

Isn't this a redistribution of wealth too? Taking from peter to give to paul?

redistribution of wealth has accomplished nothing Care. Except make people dependent on government - which is what libs want in the first place

 

[maineman]

Yea, Bily goes with the party lins and you CLAIM you are opposed to that - yet you support him anyway

Before you go after anyone else for standing by their principals - you should clean your own house first

you call yourself a hardcore conservative and ignore the hardcore conservative candidates seeking your party's nomination and, instead, support a new york cross dressing, pro-choice, pro-gay rights new york moderate and you have the GALL to call that "standing up for your principles"?

 

[red states rule]

you call yourself a hardcore conservative and ignore the hardcore conservative candidates seeking your party's nomination and, instead, support a new york cross dressing, pro-choice, pro-gay rights new york moderate and you have the GALL to call that "standing up for your principles"?

As I said, clean your own house first MM

Your guy is for everything you CLAIM to be against - or was that a lie as well?

 

[Care4all]

I'm 22 years old. I'm going to remember you talked up the success of Social Security when it comes my turn to collect, since I've paid into the system

Social Security definately needs reform and some sort of new way to help out your generation and my generation, to a degree;

I am not denying that what so ever! And I am not in anyway pleased with the way SS revenues are included in with our general treasury funds and not in the so called lock box.

I am double your age and a little , I worked since I was 15, paying in to SS, for 26 years, I am "retired young" housewife now. I am counting on every penny from what SS has told me that I will receive at 62/65/ or 70 (that accumilated from the 26 years paying in to it) and my husband and I do have it considered in our overall retirement planned budget...my generation has been over paying in to SS since 1983 when they passed a law that changed it from a pay as you go to a system that took in SURPLUSSES. These surplusses were SUPPOSE to pay down the Debt that Reagan ran up, is what we were told, so that when the boomers retired, we would have enough money in our general revenue to pay for future loans to keep up with the boomer payout to come....? OR something like that....

Of Course that appears to be a complete lie, and this was not done, the debt has only grown even with USING the SS surplusses, so we are essentially dicked it appears.... but looking at it deeper, reforms can be made to somewhat save SS and reforms can be made to look out for your generation too, whether that be privatizing some of it or even most of it...?

If the gvt would just STOP OVER SPENDING, this would not be an issue at all, or a relatively minor one.

 

[red states rule]

Social Security definately needs reform and some sort of new way to help out your generation and my generation, to a degree;

I am not denying that what so ever! And I am not in anyway pleased with the way SS revenues are included in with our general treasury funds and not in the so called lock box.

I am double your age and a little , I worked since I was 15, paying in to SS, for 26 years, I am "retired young" housewife now. I am counting on every penny from what SS has told me that I will receive at 62/65/ or 70 (that accumilated from the 26 years paying in to it) and my husband and I do have it considered in our overall retirement planned budget...my generation has been over paying in to SS since 1983 when they passed a law that changed it from a pay as you go to a system that took in SURPLUSSES. These surplusses were SUPPOSE to pay down the Debt that Reagan ran up, is what we were told, so that when the boomers retired, we would have enough money in our general revenue to pay for future loans to keep up with the boomer payout to come....? OR something like that....

Of Course that appears to be a complete lie, and this was not done, the debt has only grown even with USING the SS surplusses, so we are essentially dicked it appears.... but looking at it deeper, reforms can be made to somewhat save SS and reforms can be made to look out for your generation too, whether that be privatizing some of it or even most of it...?

If the gvt would just STOP OVER SPENDING, this would not be an issue at all, or a relatively minor one.

Then why were Dems opposed to reforming it and letting people take over how their OWN money would be invested for THEIR future?

 

[maineman]

As I said, clean your own house first MM

Your guy is for everything you CLAIM to be against - or was that a lie as well?

my house is clean. Bill Richardson is a moderate democrat. a successful democratic governor from a red state. he has experience in energy policy. he has diplomatic experience.

solid energy policy. will not create a new government bureaucracy for health care. solid civil rights platform. a good immigration policy that starts with secure borders and enforcement of existing laws. strong focus on education. payroll tax rebates for businesses...tax credits for businesses in high tech that create jobs. redeploy troops to afghanistan to crush AQ and the taliban.... I am with Bill on all those issues.

I have not sold out my PRINCIPLES like YOU have.

Hardcore conservatives do NOT support new york moderates just because they like their stances on a few issues.... especially when the hardcore conservatives in the race have all those same stances AND are conservative.

You are a political whore who doesn't even really know what the word conservative means.

 

[red states rule]

my house is clean. Bill Richardson is a moderate democrat. a successful democratic governor from a red state. he has experience in energy policy. he has diplomatic experience.

solid energy policy. will not create a new government bureaucracy for health care. solid civil rights platform. a good immigration policy that starts with secure borders and enforcement of existing laws. strong focus on education. payroll tax rebates for businesses...tax credits for businesses in high tech that create jobs. redeploy troops to afghanistan to crush AQ and the taliban.... I am with Bill on all those issues.

I have not sold out my PRINCIPLES like YOU have.

Hardcore conservatives do NOT support new york moderates just because they like their stances on a few issues.... especially when the hardcore conservatives in the race have all those same stances AND are conservative.

You are a political whore who doesn't even really know what the word conservative means.

Bill was a mod as Gov but he has moved to the far left to try and get the momination

 

[Care4all]

Then why were Dems opposed to reforming it and letting people take over how their OWN money would be invested for THEIR future?

Good Morning!

It needs overall reform and not just a single issue fix rsr, and the comprehensive reforms need to be looked at and reviewed and anticipated outcomes evaluated before being done correctly rsr.

This is why the SS reform proposed by the President did not take off...privatizing alone did nothing to help the so called crisis that we will be facing.

Nothing should be off the table to reform SS, including raising the income cap, to privatizing a portion of it, to raising the retirement age, etc....imo.

Care

 

[red states rule]

Good Morning!

It needs overall reform and not just a single issue fix rsr, and the comprehensive reforms need to be looked at and reviewed and anticipated outcomes evaluated before being done correctly rsr.

This is why the SS reform proposed by the President did not take off...privatizing alone did nothing to help the so called crisis that we will be facing.

Nothing should be off the table to reform SS, including raising the income cap, to privatizing a portion of it, to raising the retirement age, etc....imo.

Care

Good morning Care

What Pres Bush wanted was for the workers to put 2% of the SS taxes in their own account

The Dems shit their pants. Why?

If the people are aboe to plan and finance their own retirement, they would lose their power and influence over them

You get a terrible 2% return on SS - while you can greatly earn more money by investing the money in the market

have you seen the gaines over the last 5 - 10 years?

 

[maineman]

Bill was a mod as Gov but he has moved to the far left to try and get the momination

bullshit. I listed his positions. he is the most moderate democrat running. Tell me one position he has moved to the far left on. I'll wait.

I am a moderate democrat. I support him and I support those policy positions that I listed.

YOU on the other hand, are a politcal opportunist who is backing the candidate that you think can win, regardless of the fact that he is anything BUT a hardcore conservative...and you have ABANDONED the hardcore conservatives in the race..... hack.... whore..... despicable coward.
WHITE FLAG RSR!

 

[red states rule]

bullshit. I listed his positions. he is the most moderate democrat running.

I am a moderate democrat. I support him and I support those policy positions that I listed.

YOU on the other hand, are a politcal opportunist who is backing the candidate that you think can win, regardless of the fact that he is anything BUT a hardcore conservative...and you have ABANDONED the hardcore conservatives in the race..... hack.... whore..... despicable coward.
WHITE FLAG RSR!

to you Teddy Kennedy is a moderate

 

[maineman]

to you Teddy Kennedy is a moderate

run away white flag!

To me, Teddy Kennedy is a liberal.

Again...you state that "Bill was a mod as Gov but he has moved to the far left to try and get the momination"

name me ONE position that he has CHANGED and moved to the far left on to try and get the nomination.

I'll wait...

but we both know, that you can make stupid unsupportable statements like that, but when asked to defend them, you run away waving your white flag

 

[red states rule]

run away white flag!

To me, Teddy Kennedy is a liberal.

Again...you state that "Bill was a mod as Gov but he has moved to the far left to try and get the momination"

name me ONE position that he has CHANGED and moved to the far left on to try and get the nomination.

I'll wait...

but we both know, that you can make stupid unsupportable statements like that, but when asked to defend them, you run away waving your white flag

he cut taxes in his state, but wants to raise taxes on the entire nation

 

[maineman]

he cut taxes in his state, but wants to raise taxes on the entire nation

that is not so. read his platform.

 

[red states rule]

that is not so. read his platform.

he is for repealing all of the Bush tax cuts - he said so in one of the debates

 

[maineman]

he is for repealing all of the Bush tax cuts - he said so in one of the debates

allowing Bush tax cuts that were set up by the republican congress at the time with a sunset clause in place to actually be sunsetted, is not MOVING TO THE FAR LEFT to get the nomination.

Is that all you got, White Flag?

 

[red states rule]

allowing Bush tax cuts that were set up by the republican congress at the time with a sunset clause in place to actually be sunsetted, is not MOVING TO THE FAR LEFT to get the nomination.

Is that all you got, White Flag?

Still waiting for you or your candidate to explain how it is OK for the lowest wage earners to have a 33% rate increase and retired couple (making $40,000/ty) to pay more then $1000 more in taxes

 

[maineman]

Still waiting for you or your candidate to explain how it is OK for the lowest wage earners to have a 33% rate increase and retired couple (making $40,000/ty) to pay more then $1000 more in taxes

As I said...I disagree with your math.... and I laugh at your white flag waving.

Bill Richardson IS a moderate.... I am a moderate.

Rudy Guiliani is a moderate...and YOU claim to be a "hardcore conservative"

I can explain why I support Bill and my support is consistent with my politics.

You cannot explain why you have abandoned the true hardcore conservatives in the race to support rudy.

 

[red states rule]

As I said...I disagree with your math.... and I laugh at your white flag waving.

Bill Richardson IS a moderate.... I am a moderate.

Rudy Guiliani is a moderate...and YOU claim to be a "hardcore conservative"

I can explain why I support Bill and my support is consistent with my politics.

You cannot explain why you have abandoned the true hardcore conservatives in the race to support rudy.

No, you disagree with the facts

The lowest tax bracket was 15% - Bush cut it to 10%

The libs want to repeal the tax cut - so it would go back to 15%

That is a 33% rate increase on the workers YOU CLAIM you care about

Same for the retired couple

Keep trying to lie and spin MM - that is all you can do

 

[Care4all]

Good morning Care

What Pres Bush wanted was for the workers to put 2% of the SS taxes in their own account

The Dems shit their pants. Why?

If the people are aboe to plan and finance their own retirement, they would lose their power and influence over them

You get a terrible 2% return on SS - while you can greatly earn more money by investing the money in the market

have you seen the gaines over the last 5 - 10 years?

This is soooooooo NOT TRUE rsr! Taking the the 2% out ALONE with no other reforms, exaserbated the rest of the SS system. This does not rule it out, it just means that without other changes TOO, it does not work to save SS retirement for the overall public of varying ages.

And just one other thing you just might consider rsr, liberals are NOT "the enemy", (they are NOT Al Qaeda, they are not Hamas, they are not Nazis, they are not the Iranean Amedinejad), they are your fellow American citizens, your neighbors, your pastors in some cases, your doctors and lawyers and accountants and hairdressers.

They ARE fellow human beings.

Constantly looking for the worst, like your comment that Liberals were against the 2% in to private accounts because... PUT YOUR MEAN COMMENT ABOUT LIBERALS HERE instead of trying to understand the reasoning behind them being against it....like it would overall, hurt Americans and not help them, IF DONE ALONE, with no other reforms?

I think if you, and others on my side too, including myself, would start looking at others on this board as fellow Americans, instead of treating them like they are the "enemy" all the time, America could be on the road to "healing" this division that will eventually "break us" and bring us to our ruin, as with all other great empires, over time.

a country divided against oneself, can not stand...or there is a term something like this that bears a great deal of truth in it, imo, and I just want you to think about it, ok?

Care