What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

GIs probed in 'premeditated' Iraq rape, killings

pegwinn

Top of the Food Chain
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
2,558
Reaction score
330
Points
98
Location
Texas
IF a GCM finds em guilty I hope the JAG has the moral courage to do the right thing and put them on death row. Is there a charge that would hold them accountable for the retalitory killings as well?


GIs probed in 'premeditated' Iraq rape, killings
Investigators say soldiers plotted attack that left 4 dead for nearly a week

MSNBC staff and news service reports


Updated: 4:52 a.m. CT July 1, 2006
BEIJI, Iraq - Investigators believe a group of U.S. soldiers suspected of raping an Iraqi woman, then killing her and three members of her family plotted the attack for nearly a week, a U.S. military official said Saturday.

Up to five soldiers are being investigated in the March killings, the fifth pending case involving alleged slayings of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops.

The Americans entered the Sunni ArabÂ’s family home, separated three males from the woman, raped her and burned her body using a flammable liquid in a cover-up attempt, a military official close to the investigation said. The three males were also slain.

The soldiers had studied their victims for about a week and the attack was “totally premeditated,” the official said on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing. The family had just moved into the home in the insurgent-riddled area around Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of Baghdad.

Criminal investigation
The U.S. military issued a terse statement about the killings Friday, saying only that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of the 4th Infantry Division, ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged slaying of a family of four in Mahmoudiya.

U.S. officials said they knew of the deaths but thought the victims were killed in sectarian violence. But Mahmoudiya police Capt. Ihsan Abdul-Rahman said Iraqi officials received a report on March 13 alleging that American soldiers had killed the family in the Khasir Abyad area, about 6 miles north of Mahmoudiya.

There were some discrepancies over how many soldiers were being investigated. The U.S. military official said it was at least four. Two other U.S. officials said Friday that five were under investigation but one already had been discharged for unspecified charges unrelated to the killings and was believed to be in the United States.

The four still in the Army have had their weapons taken away and were confined to a U.S. base near Mahmoudiya, officials said. If convicted of premeditated murder, the soldiers could receive a death sentence under U.S. military law.

The suspects were from the 502nd Infantry Regiment and belonged to the same platoon as two soldiers kidnapped and killed south of Baghdad this month, another official close to the investigation said Friday. The soldiersÂ’ mutilated bodies were found June 19, three days after they were abducted by insurgents near Youssifiyah southwest of Baghdad.

Guilt spurs revelation
The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded. The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one member of the platoon to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

One soldier was arrested after admitting his role in the alleged attack on the family, the official said on condition of anonymity because the case was under way. The official said the rape and killings appeared to have been a “crime of opportunity,” noting that the soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.

One of the family members they allegedly killed was a child, said a senior Army official who also requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The senior official said the alleged incident was first revealed by a soldier during a routine counseling-type session. The official said that soldier did not witness the incident but heard about it.

A second soldier, who also was not involved, said he overhead soldiers conspiring to commit the crimes and then later saw bloodstains on their clothes, the official said.

The allegations of rape could generate a particularly strong backlash in Iraq, a conservative, strongly religious society in which many women will not even shake hands with men who are not close relatives.

Other convictions, pending cases
The case is among the most serious against U.S. soldiers allegedly involved in the deaths of Iraqi civilians. At least 14 U.S. troops have been convicted.

Last week, seven Marines and one Navy medic were charged with premeditated murder in the shooting death of an Iraqi man near Fallujah west of Baghdad.

U.S. officials are also investigating allegations that U.S. Marines killed two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians Nov. 19 in the western town of Haditha in a revenge attack after a fellow Marine died in a roadside bombing.

Other cases involve the deaths of three male detainees in Salahuddin province in May, the shooting death of an unarmed Iraqi man near Ramadi in February and the death of an Iraqi soldier after an interrogation at a detention camp in Qaim in 2003.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13630952/
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,854
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
If the allegations turn out to be true, no quarter. Hang them. They have disgraced this Nation, the US military, and given the lefties more fodder for their bullshit-spreader.
 
OP
pegwinn

pegwinn

Top of the Food Chain
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
2,558
Reaction score
330
Points
98
Location
Texas
GunnyL said:
If the allegations turn out to be true, no quarter. Hang them. They have disgraced this Nation, the US military, and given the lefties more fodder for their bullshit-spreader.

Hell, I'd come out of retirement to pull the lever. I cannot believe this. Bad thing is that even if the CM found em not guilty the media wouldn't buy it and two troops from the same outfit are still dead since the locals obviously believed it.
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,854
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
pegwinn said:
Hell, I'd come out of retirement to pull the lever. I cannot believe this. Bad thing is that even if the CM found em not guilty the media wouldn't buy it and two troops from the same outfit are still dead since the locals obviously believed it.

As is usual, we'll never know because there is now no way they can be a fair trial. I'm sure you're as aware as I what political animals SJA's can be.

If guilty, I'm all for public execution.

If not guilty, I'd like to see the media and lefties put as much effort and attention to proclaiming their innocence as they have rushing to judgement. Like THAT will ever happen.
 

Psychoblues

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
2,701
Reaction score
142
Points
48
Location
North Missisippi
I'm all for the execution of them and all the assholes that gave them the idea that what they were doing was somehow their American duty.

I don't suppose for a moment that you might understand.


Psychoblues



GunnyL said:
As is usual, we'll never know because there is now no way they can be a fair trial. I'm sure you're as aware as I what political animals SJA's can be.

If guilty, I'm all for public execution.

If not guilty, I'd like to see the media and lefties put as much effort and attention to proclaiming their innocence as they have rushing to judgement. Like THAT will ever happen.
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,854
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
Psychoblues said:
I'm all for the execution of them and all the assholes that gave them the idea that what they were doing was somehow their American duty.

I don't suppose for a moment that you might understand.


Psychoblues

Yeah, you're TOO easy to understand. You'd hang 'em NOW, based on allegation, then go on the usual, liberal witchhunt to try and blame Bush for alleged criminals committing alleged crimes.

Justice doesn't come into play with you in any way, shape, nor form.

The military, as an institution does not authorize nor promote rape and/or murder. Matter of fact, both are punishable crimes under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. End of story.
 
OP
pegwinn

pegwinn

Top of the Food Chain
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
2,558
Reaction score
330
Points
98
Location
Texas
Psychoblues said:
I'm all for the execution of them and all the assholes that gave them the idea that what they were doing was somehow their American duty.

I don't suppose for a moment that you might understand.


Psychoblues

Normally I try to remain civil, even with those I don't agree with. But this is so stupid that it qualifies as a Jerrys Kid post. Here's the way it works: Crime > Allegation > Investigation > Court Martial > Punishment if guilty.
 

shepherdboy

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
234
Reaction score
34
Points
16
Location
The occupied zone(CA.)
Psychoblues said:
I'm all for the execution of them and all the assholes that gave them the idea that what they were doing was somehow their American duty.

I don't suppose for a moment that you might understand.


Psychoblues

You mean to tell me that the A.C.L.U. will not come to the rescue, if these guys are found guilty? You know like they do for rapist,murderers, and molesters who are death row for several years and counting? How about those people who come out and hold candlelight vigils for such criminals. Do you think they will show up for these soldiers? Heck how about Jesse Jackson and big Al Sharpton? Maybe? I guess I will have to hold my breath.
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
There seems to me to be more to these charges than what I've seen regarding Haditha and some of the lesser known ones. For some reason, this rings more 'true,' at least so far.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060709/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_rape_investigation
4 GIs charged in Iraq rape-slaying case

By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer 20 minutes ago

Three U.S. soldiers have been charged with rape and murder and a fourth with dereliction of duty in the alleged rape-slaying of a young Iraqi woman and the killings of her relatives in Mahmoudiya, the military said Sunday.

The four were accused Saturday following an investigation into allegations that American soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division raped the teenager and killed her and three relatives at her home south of Baghdad.

Ex-soldier Steven D. Green was arrested last week in North Carolina and has pleaded not guilty to one count of rape and four counts of murder.

The U.S. statement said the four soldiers still on active duty will face an Article 32 investigation, similar to a grand jury hearing in civilian law. The Article 32 proceeding will determine whether there is enough evidence to place them on trial.

One of the soldiers was charged with failing to report the attack but is not believed to have participated in it directly, the statement said.

The names of the four soldiers were not released.

The March 12 attack on the family was among the worst in a series of cases of U.S. troops accused of killing and abusing Iraqi civilians. U.S. officials are concerned that the alleged rape-slaying will strain relations with the new U.S.-backed government and increase calls for changes in the agreement that exempts American soldiers from prosecution in Iraqi courts.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has demanded an independent investigation into the case, which followed a series of allegations that U.S. troops killed and mistreated Iraqi civilians.

According to an FBI affidavit filed in Green's case, Green and at least two others targeted the teenager and her family for a week before the attack, which was not revealed until witnesses came forward in late June.

The soldiers drank alcohol, abandoned their checkpoint, changed clothes to avoid detection and headed to the victims' house, about 200 yards from a U.S. military checkpoint in the so-called "Triangle of Death," a Sunni Arab area south of Baghdad known for its violence, the affidavit said.

The affidavit estimated the rape victim was about 25. But a doctor at the Mahmoudiya hospital gave her age as 14. He refused to be identified for fear of reprisals.

Green is accused of raping the woman and killing her and three relatives — an adult male and female and a girl estimated to be 5 years old. An official familiar with the investigation said he set fire to the rape victim's body in an apparent cover-up attempt.

Iraqi authorities identified the rape victim as Abeer Qassim Hamza. The other victims were her father, Qassim Hamza; her mother, Fikhriya Taha; and her sister, Hadeel Qassim Hamza.
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,854
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
Kathianne said:
There seems to me to be more to these charges than what I've seen regarding Haditha and some of the lesser known ones. For some reason, this rings more 'true,' at least so far.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060709/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_rape_investigation

IMO, this is going to set of a witchhunt on a grand scale, if this isn't already the beginning.

I have no problem with prosecuting criminals. The crimes committed are no better than the crimes committed by those we are fighting against.

I do have a problem with backlash hindering our troops' ability toi carry out their missions.
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
GunnyL said:
IMO, this is going to set of a witchhunt on a grand scale, if this isn't already the beginning.

I have no problem with prosecuting criminals. The crimes committed are no better than the crimes committed by those we are fighting against.

I do have a problem with backlash hindering our troops' ability toi carry out their missions.


I agree. Which is why I thought that the handwringing over Abu Ghraib was wrong. They should have prosecuted the weirdos and been done with it.

The military should investigate and shut up about the investigations into Haditha and others. They should NOT be throwing GI's in prison, without charges. They should not feed the world's press.

But they are. To me, the others were overblown and/or shakey cases at best. There's something weird about this one, that's what I'm saying. Do I think it should have been reported as much as it has? No. Now that charges have been brought, I don't think this one is likely to go away.

I think if it's as bad as it looks, someone should come out and say, "They are thugs, criminals. Being found guilty, they have brought dishonor to those that serve and to help remove the stain, THIS is their punishment."

With the prisons, those that did nothing were tarnished with the few. Haditha seems to have been a set up and that should be brought to light too. But when something really goes wrong, as it will in any organization, when it's proven, the guilty must pay.

Like the leakers from within the administration, I think leakers in DOD should also be severely punished. Not that there shouldn't be investigations, those wrong should be sought out, but not accused, tried, convicted in the media.
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,854
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
Kathianne said:
I agree. Which is why I thought that the handwringing over Abu Ghraib was wrong. They should have prosecuted the weirdos and been done with it.

The military should investigate and shut up about the investigations into Haditha and others. They should NOT be throwing GI's in prison, without charges. They should not feed the world's press.

But they are. To me, the others were overblown and/or shakey cases at best. There's something weird about this one, that's what I'm saying. Do I think it should have been reported as much as it has? No. Now that charges have been brought, I don't think this one is likely to go away.

I think if it's as bad as it looks, someone should come out and say, "They are thugs, criminals. Being found guilty, they have brought dishonor to those that serve and to help remove the stain, THIS is their punishment."

With the prisons, those that did nothing were tarnished with the few. Haditha seems to have been a set up and that should be brought to light too. But when something really goes wrong, as it will in any organization, when it's proven, the guilty must pay.

Like the leakers from within the administration, I think leakers in DOD should also be severely punished. Not that there shouldn't be investigations, those wrong should be sought out, but not accused, tried, convicted in the media.

The military is just conducting business as usual, with the added stress of MSM focus. Alleged murderers are held without bond in the civilian world. That doesn't seem unusual to me. In the case of these four soliders, being disarmed and confined to base is the least they could do, and probably as much for their protection as anything else. If we are going to try them and not allow the Iraqis too, I would go a step further and get them out of the country.

As long as the left and MSM can use instances such as these to try and represent the entire US military as rapists, murderers, and thugs, they are going to. If it turns the local populace against US presence, so much the better.
 

Annie

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
50,848
Reaction score
4,826
Points
1,790
GunnyL said:
The military is just conducting business as usual, with the added stress of MSM focus. Alleged murderers are held without bond in the civilian world. That doesn't seem unusual to me. In the case of these four soliders, being disarmed and confined to base is the least they could do, and probably as much for their protection as anything else. If we are going to try them and not allow the Iraqis too, I would go a step further and get them out of the country.

As long as the left and MSM can use instances such as these to try and represent the entire US military as rapists, murderers, and thugs, they are going to. If it turns the local populace against US presence, so much the better.

Bottom line, we are in agreement. Where we seem to have a bit of difference is where the MSM is getting their information. There have been too many incidents recently reported by 'sources, that remain anonymous' due to the reports not being released/completed yet.
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,854
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
Kathianne said:
Bottom line, we are in agreement. Where we seem to have a bit of difference is where the MSM is getting their information. There have been too many incidents recently reported by 'sources, that remain anonymous' due to the reports not being released/completed yet.

I don't know that we have a difference concerning where the MSM is getting its information. I'm at the point where a woman/child was raped and murdered and three family members murdered and five soldiers have been accused of committing the crime.

The Article 32 Hearing like a Grand Jury Investigation. It will decide what evidence, if any, exists, and if it is enough to go to a court-martial.

MSM speculation beyond that just goes in one ear and out the other.

For instance, in this one thread, the soldiers have been identified as being from the 502nd Infantry Regiment in one article, and the 101st Airborne in another. The latter, IMO, being subtle sensationalism. 101sr Airborne makes them sound WAY more dangerous, ruthless, etc than 502nd Infantry Regiment -- your average grunt.

So no, I'm hardly taking anything the MSM has to say as gospel.
 

nosarcasm

Active Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
931
Reaction score
68
Points
28
Location
Idaho

The good news in that story is that fellow soldier turned them in and reported the suspected abuse/murder.

The Haditha story has also rattled the Marine Corps since they found out
that some officers looked the other way. Yesterday that came out.

Overall these developments are proof that the US military takes it commitment
to the rules of law and war seriously and that political supervision works.
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,854
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
nosarcasm said:

The good news in that story is that fellow soldier turned them in and reported the suspected abuse/murder.

The Haditha story has also rattled the Marine Corps since they found out
that some officers looked the other way. Yesterday that came out.

Overall these developments are proof that the US military takes it commitment
to the rules of law and war seriously and that political supervision works.

Yes and no. I agree that the military takes its commitment to the rules of law and war seriously.

I disagree that political supervision works. I believe there should be political supervision at the highest level; however, I believe the political "supervision" in this Nation is nothing more than a circus.
 

nosarcasm

Active Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
931
Reaction score
68
Points
28
Location
Idaho
GunnyL said:
Yes and no. I agree that the military takes its commitment to the rules of law and war seriously.

I disagree that political supervision works. I believe there should be political supervision at the highest level; however, I believe the political "supervision" in this Nation is nothing more than a circus.



It depends on your expectation on politics. When you thought all sides
would some in to somber sessions where they as reasonable gentlemen agree
on the course of action, well then you were not thinking about a democratic system. That only worked that way in the Soviet Union, or so they claimed. :teeth:

In a democratic system it will always be a shouting match to get the attention of the public to put pressure on the executive, a flawed system
but I am with Churchill on this on.
 

liberalogic

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
539
Reaction score
48
Points
16
Location
NJ
GunnyL said:
The military is just conducting business as usual, with the added stress of MSM focus. Alleged murderers are held without bond in the civilian world. That doesn't seem unusual to me. In the case of these four soliders, being disarmed and confined to base is the least they could do, and probably as much for their protection as anything else. If we are going to try them and not allow the Iraqis too, I would go a step further and get them out of the country.

Do you think that we should try them or leave them to the Iraqis?

GunnyL said:
As long as the left and MSM can use instances such as these to try and represent the entire US military as rapists, murderers, and thugs, they are going to. If it turns the local populace against US presence, so much the better.

The left hasn't used these cases to degrade the troops. Notice that most liberals against the war still "support the the troops." They use these cases as criticism for the Bush administration, not the troops themselves.
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,854
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
liberalogic said:
Do you think that we should try them or leave them to the Iraqis?

I actually considered that, if they are found guilty, turning them over to the Iraqis. However, that is a dangerous precedent to set.

The left hasn't used these cases to degrade the troops. Notice that most liberals against the war still "support the the troops." They use these cases as criticism for the Bush administration, not the troops themselves.

Sensationalizing and blowing out of proportion the actions of troops DOES affect the morale of those who are not criminals.

Blaming Bush and/or his administration for the criminal actions of the few which contradict both civil and military law is absurd.

And frankly, "I support the troops but no the war" is about as hypocritical as it gets. While I am sure there some twisted logic to that argument, it in fact is having your cake and eating it too. You can't do both as they are contradictory.
 

liberalogic

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
539
Reaction score
48
Points
16
Location
NJ
GunnyL said:
Sensationalizing and blowing out of proportion the actions of troops DOES affect the morale of those who are not criminals.

Blaming Bush and/or his administration for the criminal actions of the few which contradict both civil and military law is absurd.

And frankly, "I support the troops but no the war" is about as hypocritical as it gets. While I am sure there some twisted logic to that argument, it in fact is having your cake and eating it too. You can't do both as they are contradictory.

I think that we should prosecute them ourselves in order to show the Iraqis that we stand behind our commitment to justice and fairness. I don't see the "danger" in turning them over to the Iraqis, but I think it's our job to make it right.

As for the "support the troops but not the war" statement, I COMPLETELY agree with you. It's quite hypocritical. How can you support the people doing the job if you don't support the job itself?

At the beginning, when we initially invaded, I could not support the troops because I thought it was the wrong choice to invade. At this point, I can say that I do because I just want them to create some stability and get the hell out of there. I support them because I support the mission of fixing what we've already broken.

But the initial "I support the troops, but not war" catchphrase simply came from liberals who did not want to seem "unpatriotic." They compromised their own opinions by making this politically correct statement.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$200.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top