Zone1 Gerrymandering: ehhhh why? :)

[peacefan]

Because you'd need to account for people moving around the country?
Well, not necessarilly. It's not so in my home country The Netherlands.

Opinions and research papers requested.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Because you'd need to account for people moving around the country?
Well, not necessarilly. It's not so in my home country The Netherlands.

Opinions and research papers requested.

Little late to be asking/making that point now isn't it?...explanation required...btw, how often do folks really move around the country in the netherlands, please provide all the research you have on it....on a side note, while it must feel wonderful getting back to your roots with windmills and the like as that is both your past and your future...well not really, for in my country we have no use for those relics.

 

[candycorn]

One of the founding tennants of the US was that voters select the leaders....

Gerrymandering allows leaders to pick to pick the voters....

Again, we need to assign congressional districts completely at random. The first district of State X should have a group of voters assigned to it completely at random--the easiest way to do that is to go by USPS ZIP codes. These groupings are based on population only without regard to race, income, etc... which is the same criteria that is supposed to happen when assigning congressional districts. Instead both parties have created safe seats both at the federal and state level.

 

[peacefan]

One of the founding tennants of the US was that voters select the leaders....

Gerrymandering allows leaders to pick to pick the voters....

true.

Again, we need to assign congressional districts completely at random. The first district of State X should have a group of voters assigned to it completely at random--the easiest way to do that is to go by USPS ZIP codes. These groupings are based on population only without regard to race, income, etc... which is the same criteria that is supposed to happen when assigning congressional districts. Instead both parties have created safe seats both at the federal and state level.

now you're ignoring the significant segregation in the housing market.

 

[the watcher]

Our voting system is outdated. We should let people send their vote to the State of their choice. That would strengthen the illusion of participation. Being able to vote on Tic Tok or Instagram would also increase interest. Mailing out ballots with the monthly ebt payments would surely get results.

 

[candycorn]

now you're ignoring the significant segregation in the housing market.

Well, I gave you the barest explanation of what "my" system would be.

Here is the detail....

To make the math easier, lets say you have a state that has 10 congressional districts and 8M people. What you want is 800K per district--or close to it. Currently what is done is that they draw lines any which way they can to carve out enough safe seats for the two major parties while putting roughly 800K in each weird assed shape. Sometimes a district is as wide as a city block to accomplish such a feat. My system would do away with contiguous shaped districts and assign ZIP codes to each seat.

The way it would work is like so:

1. Take all of the ZIP codes in the state and make a list numerically...00001, 00002, 00003 etc....top to bottom. Lets say you have about 800 ZIP codes.
2. Divide the 800 ZIP codes into 10 groups using nothing but income of the residents of that ZIP code. Income is often the determining factor that goes along with what voters want from their elected officials. Less affluent folks likely would want development and security; more affluent folks want parks and capital improvements.
3. Anyway, take the highest earners and put them into Group A. The next highest goes into Group B, then Group C...all the way down to Group J. Then re-organize the list by income into 10 groups.
4. Then assign, at random, one ZIP code from the first group to each district until they're all gone. Then do the same to Group B, then C etc...
5. What you end up with is nearly identical demographics where each seat will have a few affluent ZIP codes but mostly those in the middle or low end of the earning spectrum. There will be no more safe seats drawn to shoehorn blacks or Hispanics into some districts or insulate the wealthy.

 

[peacefan]

Our voting system is outdated. We should let people send their vote to the State of their choice. That would strengthen the illusion of participation. Being able to vote on Tic Tok or Instagram would also increase interest. Mailing out ballots with the monthly ebt payments would surely get results.

I think income inequality should be put on the agenda before gerrymandering even, as something all politicians had better get behind or face losing their political careers altogether.

 

[peacefan]

Well, I gave you the barest explanation of what "my" system would be.

Here is the detail....

To make the math easier, lets say you have a state that has 10 congressional districts and 8M people. What you want is 800K per district--or close to it. Currently what is done is that they draw lines any which way they can to carve out enough safe seats for the two major parties while putting roughly 800K in each weird assed shape. Sometimes a district is as wide as a city block to accomplish such a feat. My system would do away with contiguous shaped districts and assign ZIP codes to each seat.

The way it would work is like so:

1. Take all of the ZIP codes in the state and make a list numerically...00001, 00002, 00003 etc....top to bottom. Lets say you have about 800 ZIP codes.
2. Divide the 800 ZIP codes into 10 groups using nothing but income of the residents of that ZIP code. Income is often the determining factor that goes along with what voters want from their elected officials. Less affluent folks likely would want development and security; more affluent folks want parks and capital improvements.
3. Anyway, take the highest earners and put them into Group A. The next highest goes into Group B, then Group C...all the way down to Group J. Then re-organize the list by income into 10 groups.
4. Then assign, at random, one ZIP code from the first group to each district until they're all gone. Then do the same to Group B, then C etc...
5. What you end up with is nearly identical demographics where each seat will have a few affluent ZIP codes but mostly those in the middle or low end of the earning spectrum. There will be no more safe seats drawn to shoehorn blacks or Hispanics into some districts or insulate the wealthy.

what is your objective with this system? can you elaborate honestly about that?

 

[candycorn]

what is your objective with this system? can you elaborate honestly about that?

To Get rid of safe districts.

 

[peacefan]

To Get rid of safe districts.

ok... eh, what are 'safe districts' in this context?

 

[candycorn]

ok... eh, what are 'safe districts' in this context?

The 375-400 seats that are carved out by both political parties to make sure their party wins the seat.

The CA 12th for example, has been blue since 1993--32 years; 16 congresses.Its East Bay Area. Now take that seat and give it some real diverse populations; Central Valley, San Diego, Mt. Whitney area. Orange County. You may see it swing. Likewise, the TN-1 has been red since 1881. Most of the men who have held that seat retired or died in office. LOL. Imagine if the district that is currently in the mountainous east had to represent urban areas in Memphis, Nashville, or the rural areas around the ‘Bama border. You may see it swing.

 

[peacefan]

The 375-400 seats that are carved out by both political parties to make sure their party wins the seat.

The CA 12th for example, has been blue since 1993--32 years; 16 congresses.Its East Bay Area. Now take that seat and give it some real diverse populations; Central Valley, San Diego, Mt. Whitney area. Orange County. You may see it swing. Likewise, the TN-1 has been red since 1881. Most of the men who have held that seat retired or died in office. LOL. Imagine if the district that is currently in the mountainous east had to represent urban areas in Memphis, Nashville, or the rural areas around the ‘Bama border. You may see it swing.

I think the job of a seat is to see to a (very) specific locality.

 

[candycorn]

I think the job of a seat is to see to a (very) specific locality.

Well, thats fine. But I think when you have 400 (give or take) members of an elective body of 435 who don’t have to campaign because their seat is safe...I submit that the system has been turned on it’s head...they’ve selected the voters they want. It’s supposed to be that the voters select the representatives.

 

[peacefan]

Well, thats fine. But I think when you have 400 (give or take) members of an elective body of 435 who don’t have to campaign because their seat is safe...I submit that the system has been turned on it’s head...they’ve selected the voters they want. It’s supposed to be that the voters select the representatives.

Then there should be multiple candidates to choose from for each district, I think.

 

[candycorn]

Then there should be multiple candidates to choose from for each district, I think.

There usually are. Very few have any chance of winning.

 

[peacefan]

There usually are. Very few have any chance of winning.

View attachment 1156551

Then this is either a candidate-funding problem (proposed solution : taxpayer funding for political candidates), or voter mindset problem, don't you think?

 

[JustAGuy1]

One of the founding tennants of the US was that voters select the leaders....

Gerrymandering allows leaders to pick to pick the voters....

Again, we need to assign congressional districts completely at random. The first district of State X should have a group of voters assigned to it completely at random--the easiest way to do that is to go by USPS ZIP codes. These groupings are based on population only without regard to race, income, etc... which is the same criteria that is supposed to happen when assigning congressional districts. Instead both parties have created safe seats both at the federal and state level.

Both sides do it.

 

[candycorn]

Then this is either a candidate-funding problem (proposed solution : taxpayer funding for political candidates), or voter mindset problem, don't you think?

A more energized electorate would certainly help. Taxpayer funded elections are a pipe dream.

What is driving these safe seats is that district lines are drawn by the party in power to exclude persons whom they don’t think will vote for them. This is why you have all of these crazy shapes for congressional districts. “Locality” means nothing to the authors of the maps.

 

[candycorn]

Both sides do it.

I never said otherwise.