George Zimmerman's bloody head

[WorldWatcher]

Additionally, if the HOA specifically did not train and/or monitor Zimmerman then they are definitely on the hook.

The training and guide materials are provided by the Sanford Police Department, same way that our NW program is administered through our county Sheriff's office and it was a law enforcement officer that trained us and provided guidance materials. It wasn't the HOA.

How do you "monitor" an organization were the premise is that members agree to keep an eye out for their neighbors and their property and to call the police to check on this if something is out of the norm?


Was there supposed to be someone from the HOA riding with Zimmerman that night when he decided to drive from his home to Target to do food shopping and then he decided to interrupt his shopping trip because he saw a young man walking down the street?



>>>>

 

[Ariux]

a grown man murders a child and millions of rabid racist pieces of trash come out of the woodwork

That was no child. That was an Afro.

 

[Againsheila]

a grown man murders a child and millions of rabid racist pieces of trash come out of the woodwork

why this country hasnt exploded yet i dont know

Well, number one, a what 24 year old shot a 17 year old, not really a child and certainly not smaller than him, skinnier maybe, but not smaller.

Number 2, it wasn't murder, it was self defense...The cuts on Zimmerman's face and the back of his head are pretty much testimony to the fact that he was fighting for his life.

Number 3 why is it racist to recognize that when your head is being pounded into the ground, it's self defense to shoot the guy doing it?

Number 4, if Zimmerman had actually been white, there probably would have been riots, but since it turns out he's Hispanic with black blood and that he was big brother (as in the organization) to a black boy, it kind of negates the whole cry of "racism".

 

[JimBowie1958]

a grown man murders a child and millions of rabid racist pieces of trash come out of the woodwork

why this country hasnt exploded yet i dont know

STFU you racist POS

 

[JimBowie1958]

a grown man murders a child and millions of rabid racist pieces of trash come out of the woodwork

why this country hasnt exploded yet i dont know

Well, number one, a what 24 year old shot a 17 year old, not really a child and certainly not smaller than him, skinnier maybe, but not smaller.

Number 2, it wasn't murder, it was self defense...The cuts on Zimmerman's face and the back of his head are pretty much testimony to the fact that he was fighting for his life.

Number 3 why is it racist to recognize that when your head is being pounded into the ground, it's self defense to shoot the guy doing it?

Number 4, if Zimmerman had actually been white, there probably would have been riots, but since it turns out he's Hispanic with black blood and that he was big brother (as in the organization) to a black boy, it kind of negates the whole cry of "racism".

Good response, but you do realize that CHA is just an asshole troll who could not care less what the actual facts are, right?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Additionally, if the HOA specifically did not train and/or monitor Zimmerman then they are definitely on the hook.

The training and guide materials are provided by the Sanford Police Department, same way that our NW program is administered through our county Sheriff's office and it was a law enforcement officer that trained us and provided guidance materials. It wasn't the HOA.

How do you "monitor" an organization were the premise is that members agree to keep an eye out for their neighbors and their property and to call the police to check on this if something is out of the norm?


Was there supposed to be someone from the HOA riding with Zimmerman that night when he decided to drive from his home to Target to do food shopping and then he decided to interrupt his shopping trip because he saw a young man walking down the street?



>>>>

Dude, stop being reasonable and be more like....I dont know, reasonable is like so last millenia or something, lol.

/jk

 

[Gadawg73]

Additionally, if the HOA specifically did not train and/or monitor Zimmerman then they are definitely on the hook.

The training and guide materials are provided by the Sanford Police Department, same way that our NW program is administered through our county Sheriff's office and it was a law enforcement officer that trained us and provided guidance materials. It wasn't the HOA.

How do you "monitor" an organization were the premise is that members agree to keep an eye out for their neighbors and their property and to call the police to check on this if something is out of the norm?


Was there supposed to be someone from the HOA riding with Zimmerman that night when he decided to drive from his home to Target to do food shopping and then he decided to interrupt his shopping trip because he saw a young man walking down the street?



>>>>

I appreciate the dialogue. You make very good points.
But let me appeal to your reason and common sense.
If the Sanford Police Department provided the training and guide materials, and I do not doubt at all that they did as I believe they did, and George Zimmerman was their poster child for Community Watch Patrolman, the cream of their training program, and then he goes out and shoots someone on his watch, if you were an unbiased juror wouldn't you believe that since he has had all of that training and then shot someone that somewhere, someplace, someone with the HOA lacked serious judgment in fronting this person as their top dog on the watch and their best candidate for the training FOR THEIR HOA and had the police department train him?
Believe me, this looks very bad for the HOA no matter how hard you defend it. The HOA is fucked beyond all means in this because you have a dead body and a ready made reason to award the plaintiffs.

 

[Ariux]

Was there supposed to be someone from the HOA riding with Zimmerman that night when he decided to drive from his home to Target to do food shopping and then he decided to interrupt his shopping trip because he saw a young man walking down the street?

That wasn't a young man, it was a f-ing cold casing the neighborhood.

Zimmerman wasn't functioning in the capacity of neighborhood watch when the happened. The HOA is meaningless. Zimmerman broke no laws. Zimmerman shot a worthless piece of shit in self-defense.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Additionally, if the HOA specifically did not train and/or monitor Zimmerman then they are definitely on the hook.

The training and guide materials are provided by the Sanford Police Department, same way that our NW program is administered through our county Sheriff's office and it was a law enforcement officer that trained us and provided guidance materials. It wasn't the HOA.

How do you "monitor" an organization were the premise is that members agree to keep an eye out for their neighbors and their property and to call the police to check on this if something is out of the norm?


Was there supposed to be someone from the HOA riding with Zimmerman that night when he decided to drive from his home to Target to do food shopping and then he decided to interrupt his shopping trip because he saw a young man walking down the street?



>>>>

I appreciate the dialogue. You make very good points.
But let me appeal to your reason and common sense.
If the Sanford Police Department provided the training and guide materials, and I do not doubt at all that they did as I believe they did, and George Zimmerman was their poster child for Community Watch Patrolman, the cream of their training program, and then he goes out and shoots someone on his watch, if you were an unbiased juror wouldn't you believe that since he has had all of that training and then shot someone that somewhere, someplace, someone with the HOA lacked serious judgment in fronting this person as their top dog on the watch and their best candidate for the training FOR THEIR HOA and had the police department train him?
Believe me, this looks very bad for the HOA no matter how hard you defend it. The HOA is fucked beyond all means in this because you have a dead body and a ready made reason to award the plaintiffs.

Thank you for the compliment.

Nothing prior to the incident of February 26th would have provided any indicators to members of the HOA of any problems with Zimmerman being a member of the NW. The NW was established in the community because a group of residents went to the HOA and requested it be setup in September 2011 - just 5 months before the shooting.

There would be no legal basis for a case of negligence against the HOA for sanctioning a NW within the community. The expectation would be that all members of the group would attend the training and follow the policies and procedures described to them by the Sanford Police. The only way the HOA would be negligent is to allow someone to lead the organization who demonstrated a history of not following the NW rules. Prior to the 26th of February, not such pattern had been established.

There is only one reason to file a suit against the Retreat at Twin Lakes community as a whole - that being the perception that the RTL community had deeper pockets then the Zimmerman's as individuals with the hope of getting more cash. Even if such a suit was filed (there is nothing from preventing a suit being filed). Such a suit would likely be dismissed at the first court hearing for two reasons: (1) lack of evidence of wrong doing on the HOA's part, and (2) the HOA would not be liable for an individual in the community - even if they were part of the NW - acting independently and in violation of NW policies and procedures.


Just MHO of course.


>>>>

 

[Noomi]

a grown man murders a child and millions of rabid racist pieces of trash come out of the woodwork

That was no child. That was an Afro.

You really are a racist piece of crap, you know that?

 

[Ariux]

a grown man murders a child and millions of rabid racist pieces of trash come out of the woodwork

That was no child. That was an Afro.

You really are a racist piece of crap, you know that?

You're the racist. You're culturally insensitive. In Afro communities, 17 is considered a man, not a child. Do often run around calling Afro men "child" or "boy"?

I try to set an example of non-racism for everyone to follow, but you people keep getting dragged down by your bigotry.

 

[Noomi]

That was no child. That was an Afro.

You really are a racist piece of crap, you know that?

You're the racist. You're culturally insensitive. In Afro communities, 17 is considered a man, not a child. Do often run around calling Afro men "child" or "boy"?

I try to set an example of non-racism for everyone to follow, but you people keep getting dragged down by your bigotry.

I refer to black people as black people, not ******* or Afros or whatever they hell you like to call them. What would happen if you called a black person a ****** to their face? You wouldn't be here right now.

 

[Againsheila]

You really are a racist piece of crap, you know that?

You're the racist. You're culturally insensitive. In Afro communities, 17 is considered a man, not a child. Do often run around calling Afro men "child" or "boy"?

I try to set an example of non-racism for everyone to follow, but you people keep getting dragged down by your bigotry.

I refer to black people as black people, not ******* or Afros or whatever they hell you like to call them. What would happen if you called a black person a ****** to their face? You wouldn't be here right now.

I had a black man staying in my home and he referred to a black as a n...I told him I didn't care if he was black, that word wasn't allowed in my house...he never used it in front of me again.

I always think of Afro as a hair style but it seems to me that if you're calling yourself an African American, Afro's as good a nickname as anything....I must have missed something...when did "afro" become synonymous with the "n" word?

 

[Noomi]

You're the racist. You're culturally insensitive. In Afro communities, 17 is considered a man, not a child. Do often run around calling Afro men "child" or "boy"?

I try to set an example of non-racism for everyone to follow, but you people keep getting dragged down by your bigotry.

I refer to black people as black people, not ******* or Afros or whatever they hell you like to call them. What would happen if you called a black person a ****** to their face? You wouldn't be here right now.

I had a black man staying in my home and he referred to a black as a n...I told him I didn't care if he was black, that word wasn't allowed in my house...he never used it in front of me again.

I always think of Afro as a hair style but it seems to me that if you're calling yourself an African American, Afro's as good a nickname as anything....I must have missed something...when did "afro" become synonymous with the "n" word?

Ariux isn't using the term Afro as a shortened form of African American. He's using it in a racist way, because he is a racist.

I agree with you about the N word, I don't think anyone should use it, but if a black person is happy to use the word to describe themselves or their mates, then it should be okay for a white person to use it, too.

 

[Ariux]

I refer to black people as black people, not ******* or Afros or whatever they hell you like to call them. What would happen if you called a black person a ****** to their face? You wouldn't be here right now.

Afro, as in Afro-American, is a term of respect. It honors their African heritage without implying that they're only half American.

What would happen if you called a white person a Cracker to his face? Nothing. You insult Afros by arguing that a mere word would lead them into a murderous rage. Do you know any Afros? I'm asking because what you think about them seems to be stereotypes learned from Hollywood.

You might think it's okay to call grown Afros "boy", but just because they don't go into a murderous rage when you call them that doesn't mean your not being insulting, insensitive, and racist.

You need to overcome your racism. And, I'll be here to help you. Okay?

 

[Againsheila]

I refer to black people as black people, not ******* or Afros or whatever they hell you like to call them. What would happen if you called a black person a ****** to their face? You wouldn't be here right now.

I had a black man staying in my home and he referred to a black as a n...I told him I didn't care if he was black, that word wasn't allowed in my house...he never used it in front of me again.

I always think of Afro as a hair style but it seems to me that if you're calling yourself an African American, Afro's as good a nickname as anything....I must have missed something...when did "afro" become synonymous with the "n" word?

Ariux isn't using the term Afro as a shortened form of African American. He's using it in a racist way, because he is a racist.

I agree with you about the N word, I don't think anyone should use it, but if a black person is happy to use the word to describe themselves or their mates, then it should be okay for a white person to use it, too.

So if he refers to them as blacks, he's not using it (blacks)_ in a racist way? You are giving him/her way too much power.

 

[Gadawg73]

The training and guide materials are provided by the Sanford Police Department, same way that our NW program is administered through our county Sheriff's office and it was a law enforcement officer that trained us and provided guidance materials. It wasn't the HOA.

How do you "monitor" an organization were the premise is that members agree to keep an eye out for their neighbors and their property and to call the police to check on this if something is out of the norm?


Was there supposed to be someone from the HOA riding with Zimmerman that night when he decided to drive from his home to Target to do food shopping and then he decided to interrupt his shopping trip because he saw a young man walking down the street?



>>>>

I appreciate the dialogue. You make very good points.
But let me appeal to your reason and common sense.
If the Sanford Police Department provided the training and guide materials, and I do not doubt at all that they did as I believe they did, and George Zimmerman was their poster child for Community Watch Patrolman, the cream of their training program, and then he goes out and shoots someone on his watch, if you were an unbiased juror wouldn't you believe that since he has had all of that training and then shot someone that somewhere, someplace, someone with the HOA lacked serious judgment in fronting this person as their top dog on the watch and their best candidate for the training FOR THEIR HOA and had the police department train him?
Believe me, this looks very bad for the HOA no matter how hard you defend it. The HOA is fucked beyond all means in this because you have a dead body and a ready made reason to award the plaintiffs.

Thank you for the compliment.

Nothing prior to the incident of February 26th would have provided any indicators to members of the HOA of any problems with Zimmerman being a member of the NW. The NW was established in the community because a group of residents went to the HOA and requested it be setup in September 2011 - just 5 months before the shooting.

There would be no legal basis for a case of negligence against the HOA for sanctioning a NW within the community. The expectation would be that all members of the group would attend the training and follow the policies and procedures described to them by the Sanford Police. The only way the HOA would be negligent is to allow someone to lead the organization who demonstrated a history of not following the NW rules. Prior to the 26th of February, not such pattern had been established.

There is only one reason to file a suit against the Retreat at Twin Lakes community as a whole - that being the perception that the RTL community had deeper pockets then the Zimmerman's as individuals with the hope of getting more cash. Even if such a suit was filed (there is nothing from preventing a suit being filed). Such a suit would likely be dismissed at the first court hearing for two reasons: (1) lack of evidence of wrong doing on the HOA's part, and (2) the HOA would not be liable for an individual in the community - even if they were part of the NW - acting independently and in violation of NW policies and procedures.


Just MHO of course.


>>>>

He had a criminal record!
If the HOA did not know that that is their problem.
"Lack of evidence"? Please, there is plenty of evidence.
"acting independently" The HOA had him trained and told everyone "call George Zimmerman". No offense but why the nonsense here about acting independently. His negligence acts are their baby.
The dog analogy is the same here, you can not have a dog bite someone and then claim "I did not know he bit folk."
Zimmerman was their boy and he was negligent.
No way this suit will be dismissed as the defenses you cite are all jury questions, not summmary judgement as Motion For Summary Judgment is what dismisses a civil case IF a Judge rules favorably in it. Rarely do they win as a Jury is what decides negligence, never a Judge. Judges interpret the law, not facts of negligence.

If Zimmerman pleads guilty watch for the first shot across the bow.
Again, if this is a plea or a guilty verdict all of that comes in and there are no issues for a Judge do dismiss it unless the STand Your Ground defense wins. Then by statute the Judge has to dismiss it.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Nobody ever gives the exact same account twice. It depends on what got asked. It depends on what was deemed important each time. Filters are in place at both times, but what is deemed worthy of an edit may differ from time to time. People sometimes do just forget to say some things. People have the damnedest way of confusing things in terms of time sequences, etc., etc., etc.

While it's true that people might not use the exact same wording, you bringing that up is a straw man. Nobody is complaining about the tomato/tomahto of Zimmerman's stories. But Zimmerman's multiple accounts paint stories that cannot be reconciled with each other.

Well, thanks for your spin.

I wonder if you have the ability, Muddled, to back up your mere words, however? I doubt it.

But just on the remote chance that you do have some ability to support your position, then you really should do so. Point by point. Show the allegedly irreconcilable discrepancies. Provide links.

Well, there's the discrepancy of Trayvon's apparent age, for starters. In the 9-1-1 tape, Zimmerman says that Trayvon is a teenage kid. In court, Zimmerman said he thought Trayvon was "just a little younger than" himself. These assertions are contrary to each other. He cannot have believed both things. Both statements, therefore, cannot be true. Though theoretically, both could still be false.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I appreciate the dialogue. You make very good points.
But let me appeal to your reason and common sense.
If the Sanford Police Department provided the training and guide materials, and I do not doubt at all that they did as I believe they did, and George Zimmerman was their poster child for Community Watch Patrolman, the cream of their training program, and then he goes out and shoots someone on his watch, if you were an unbiased juror wouldn't you believe that since he has had all of that training and then shot someone that somewhere, someplace, someone with the HOA lacked serious judgment in fronting this person as their top dog on the watch and their best candidate for the training FOR THEIR HOA and had the police department train him?
Believe me, this looks very bad for the HOA no matter how hard you defend it. The HOA is fucked beyond all means in this because you have a dead body and a ready made reason to award the plaintiffs.

Thank you for the compliment.

Nothing prior to the incident of February 26th would have provided any indicators to members of the HOA of any problems with Zimmerman being a member of the NW. The NW was established in the community because a group of residents went to the HOA and requested it be setup in September 2011 - just 5 months before the shooting.

There would be no legal basis for a case of negligence against the HOA for sanctioning a NW within the community. The expectation would be that all members of the group would attend the training and follow the policies and procedures described to them by the Sanford Police. The only way the HOA would be negligent is to allow someone to lead the organization who demonstrated a history of not following the NW rules. Prior to the 26th of February, not such pattern had been established.

There is only one reason to file a suit against the Retreat at Twin Lakes community as a whole - that being the perception that the RTL community had deeper pockets then the Zimmerman's as individuals with the hope of getting more cash. Even if such a suit was filed (there is nothing from preventing a suit being filed). Such a suit would likely be dismissed at the first court hearing for two reasons: (1) lack of evidence of wrong doing on the HOA's part, and (2) the HOA would not be liable for an individual in the community - even if they were part of the NW - acting independently and in violation of NW policies and procedures.


Just MHO of course.


>>>>

He had a criminal record!

Actually he didn't, what we know about is that he had an arrest record, but the status of that arrest is "Dismissed". Now the public knows the details, but an HOA doing a background check would not have known that he submitted to a pre-trail intervention program for anger management.

A background check conducted at levels for the HOA would not have shown any convictions.

"Lack of evidence"? Please, there is plenty of evidence.

OK, lay it out, please show what evidence there is that the HOA had received complaints about Zimmerman or that Zimmerman had routinely broken the rules and policies of the NW organization and that the HOA had been made aware of it and failed to take action.

[/QUOTE]"acting independently" The HOA had him trained and told everyone "call George Zimmerman". No offense but why the nonsense here about acting independently. His negligence acts are their baby. [/QUOTE]

No the police department "had him trained", NW is their organization.

The dog analogy is the same here, you can not have a dog bite someone and then claim "I did not know he bit folk."

True, the owner of the dog is responsibile. NW is an organization administered through the police, not the HOA.

Zimmerman was their boy and he was negligent.
No way this suit will be dismissed as the defenses you cite are all jury questions, not summmary judgement as Motion For Summary Judgment is what dismisses a civil case IF a Judge rules favorably in it. Rarely do they win as a Jury is what decides negligence, never a Judge. Judges interpret the law, not facts of negligence.

Actually it would likely be dismissed the same way our case was when I was an officer on our HOA. Someone tried to bring a case of liability against us for an accident that had occurred on community grounds (we owned the roads at that time). Our lawyer presented a motion to dismiss because there was no history or act of negligence on our part and that the claimant had not presented any reasonable evidence to show such. Judge agreed - case dismissed.

Before a case is presented to the Jury, then the claimant must present a valid case under the law and show where they have evidence of their likelihood to succeed.

If Zimmerman pleads guilty watch for the first shot across the bow.
Again, if this is a plea or a guilty verdict all of that comes in and there are no issues for a Judge do dismiss it unless the STand Your Ground defense wins. Then by statute the Judge has to dismiss it.

I fully expect someone to file suit against the HOA, I doubt it will go anywhere though.

Re: SYG - If Zimmerman's case is dismissed under the provisions of Florida's SYG law, then Zimmerman would be immune from a law suit, true. However, the HOA would not have that same immunity, a claimant could still file suit - though I think it would be dismissed for failure to show a lack of negligence - by SYG wouldn't apply to the HOA.



>>>>

 

[Gadawg73]

Thank you for the compliment.

Nothing prior to the incident of February 26th would have provided any indicators to members of the HOA of any problems with Zimmerman being a member of the NW. The NW was established in the community because a group of residents went to the HOA and requested it be setup in September 2011 - just 5 months before the shooting.

There would be no legal basis for a case of negligence against the HOA for sanctioning a NW within the community. The expectation would be that all members of the group would attend the training and follow the policies and procedures described to them by the Sanford Police. The only way the HOA would be negligent is to allow someone to lead the organization who demonstrated a history of not following the NW rules. Prior to the 26th of February, not such pattern had been established.

There is only one reason to file a suit against the Retreat at Twin Lakes community as a whole - that being the perception that the RTL community had deeper pockets then the Zimmerman's as individuals with the hope of getting more cash. Even if such a suit was filed (there is nothing from preventing a suit being filed). Such a suit would likely be dismissed at the first court hearing for two reasons: (1) lack of evidence of wrong doing on the HOA's part, and (2) the HOA would not be liable for an individual in the community - even if they were part of the NW - acting independently and in violation of NW policies and procedures.


Just MHO of course.


>>>>

He had a criminal record!

Actually he didn't, what we know about is that he had an arrest record, but the status of that arrest is "Dismissed". Now the public knows the details, but an HOA doing a background check would not have known that he submitted to a pre-trail intervention program for anger management.

A background check conducted at levels for the HOA would not have shown any convictions.




OK, lay it out, please show what evidence there is that the HOA had received complaints about Zimmerman or that Zimmerman had routinely broken the rules and policies of the NW organization and that the HOA had been made aware of it and failed to take action.

"acting independently" The HOA had him trained and told everyone "call George Zimmerman". No offense but why the nonsense here about acting independently. His negligence acts are their baby. [/QUOTE]

No the police department "had him trained", NW is their organization.

The dog analogy is the same here, you can not have a dog bite someone and then claim "I did not know he bit folk."

True, the owner of the dog is responsibile. NW is an organization administered through the police, not the HOA.

Zimmerman was their boy and he was negligent.
No way this suit will be dismissed as the defenses you cite are all jury questions, not summmary judgement as Motion For Summary Judgment is what dismisses a civil case IF a Judge rules favorably in it. Rarely do they win as a Jury is what decides negligence, never a Judge. Judges interpret the law, not facts of negligence.

Actually it would likely be dismissed the same way our case was when I was an officer on our HOA. Someone tried to bring a case of liability against us for an accident that had occurred on community grounds (we owned the roads at that time). Our lawyer presented a motion to dismiss because there was no history or act of negligence on our part and that the claimant had not presented any reasonable evidence to show such. Judge agreed - case dismissed.

Before a case is presented to the Jury, then the claimant must present a valid case under the law and show where they have evidence of their likelihood to succeed.

If Zimmerman pleads guilty watch for the first shot across the bow.
Again, if this is a plea or a guilty verdict all of that comes in and there are no issues for a Judge do dismiss it unless the STand Your Ground defense wins. Then by statute the Judge has to dismiss it.

I fully expect someone to file suit against the HOA, I doubt it will go anywhere though.

Re: SYG - If Zimmerman's case is dismissed under the provisions of Florida's SYG law, then Zimmerman would be immune from a law suit, true. However, the HOA would not have that same immunity, a claimant could still file suit - though I think it would be dismissed for failure to show a lack of negligence - by SYG wouldn't apply to the HOA.



>>>>[/QUOTE]

Respectfully, all the plaintiffs need as evidence is a dead body and they have it.
This is a WRONGFUL DEATH CASE. We have a death and Zimmerman was the HOA guy that shot him.
SYG applies to the civil statutes if he was deemed defending himself.
The individual, not the insurance company or entity gets sued and then the deep pockets get attached to that liability. Joint and several liability.
World, this is how it works in a negligence case. If you are negligent in a car accident or any tort YOU get sued, not the entity you were working for or insured by. They also get brought in but it is their indeminification of their "insured" that the plaintiffs are after.
If Zimmerman wins on SYG how could the HOA be liable in any way? They indemnify him and his actions were ruled not to be unreasonable. If SYG is ruled valid then Martin would have been ruled the aggressor and Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. No plaintiffs lawyer would touch it then.