Genital Mutilation Now a Reality in America: Coming soon to your Neighborhood

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You ah, just confirmed what I said.

I directly refuted what you said, and I demonstrated quite clearly that they are doing it for their religion. And that religion is Islam. Its god is called "Allah".

 

[Pogo]

Where?

"While there is no mention of FGM in the Quran, a Hadith (saying about the life of the prophet) recounts a debate between Muhammed and Um Habibah (or Um ‘Atiyyah). This woman, known as an exciser of female slaves, was one of a group of women who had immigrated with Muhammed. Having seen her, Muhammad asked her if she kept practicing her profession. She answered affirmatively, adding: “unless it is forbidden, and you order me to stop doing it.” Muhammed replied: “Yes, it is allowed. Come closer so I can teach you: if you cut, do not overdo it, because it brings more radiance to the face, and it is more pleasant for the husband.” - WordPress

This is, indeed, the passage Muslim clerics cite when they say Islam demands this of women.

That conclusion makes no sense. If this woman is performing FGMs *IN* Mohammed's lifetime, that just confirms that it was ALREADY THERE before Islam was. What's she supposed to be, some kind of time traveller?

Which, again, confirms what we've been noting about its origins the entire time here. NOR does it offer any hint of a religious function for the practice.

Nor, for that matter, is this passage even linked to anything.

 

[Pogo]

You ah, just confirmed what I said.

I directly refuted what you said, and I demonstrated quite clearly that they are doing it for their religion. And that religion is Islam. Its god is called "Allah".

You're lost dood. Again, there is NO religious prescription for FGM, in *any* religion. Because it's NOT A RELIGIOUS RITUAL. It's a social ritual.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That conclusion makes no sense. If this woman is performing FGMs *IN* Mohammed's lifetime, that just confirms that it was

What a terrible argument. That doesn't speak to the intent of people doing it today. Prayer was also around before Islam...saying so would not suddenly mean that modern Muslims aren't praying for Allah.

I never said or implied that Islam was the origin of this practice. Not once. So maybe you meant to post that to someone else...?


And the passage of the Hadith i cited is, indeed, the passage first cited when Muslims claim FGM is mandated by Islam. The passage literally describes Mohammed teaching someone how to do it.

Similarly, 19th century Christians turned to the passages on slavery in the Bible as justification and defense of slavery.

 

[Pogo]

That conclusion makes no sense. If this woman is performing FGMs *IN* Mohammed's lifetime, that just confirms that it was

What a terrible argument. That doesn't speak to the intent of people doing it today.

That is indeed a terrible argument. When Hitler wrote that by eradicating Jews he was "finishing the work of the Lord", his intent doesn't magically make Christianism responsible for his wackjob interpretation of it. Ditto Eric Rudolph or any example you want.

Your own post pointed out -- here I'll quote it directly:

Muslim leaders have to gather and tell their congregations it is, contrary to popular belief, not demanded by Islam.

CLEARLY to the extent they need to re-educate these people they're addressing mythologies, exactly like the ones promulgated here by the OP, by 2aguy just above, by Cecilie1200 -- by any number of knuckledragging ignorami. THAT is what that kind of ignorance leads to, so don't sit here feeding it. All that does is slow down the eradication of this bizarre ancient custom.

The fact remains, FGM has nothing to do with religion and never did. It's a social custom WAY older than Islam, Christianism, Judaism etc etc, which your own account of the woman meeting Mohammed, proves.

 

[Pogo]

We’ve been mutilating baby boys since forever. And not a peep out of anyone . Still.

So you favor 12 year old girl getting their clit cut out?

**** you, you're a dishonest fraud.

Where's my link?

You are a sick person...

I'm not sure what the **** is wrong with you but YOUR OWN LINK here confirms everything I've been saying.

1:58 -- "It's a cycle of SOCIAL PRESSURE that is hard to shake"

2:19 -- "FGM is NOT A RELIGIOUS EXERCISE. It HAPPENS in Christian, Muslim and Jewish communities* but there is NOTHING in ANY of their holy books that teaches it".

YOUR OWN LINK, DUMBASS. So no, **** YOU.


*as well as some tribal communities uninfiltrated by any major religion

Not my links.

That *IS* your post, lying asshole. It's got your name on it.
And it's got a video that tells the truth unlike anything you post. DEAL with that.

 

[koshergrl]

and there exist no such "teachings" advocating FGM. Or "honor" killings. In *ANY* religion.

How about circumcision? It's also mutilation and is still big in judeo christian circles.

Male circumcision serves a health need. It's easier to keep your unit clean if the foreskin is removed, as well as being circumcised makes it harder for you to catch STDs.

Female circumcision serves no viable health reasoning, nor does it do anything to benefit the female. Male circumcision benefits the male (and keeps the females from freaking out when they see you naked).

That's how they sell it. It also reduces pleasure from sex - which is one of the reasons for FGM. And it has been shown that dudes can keep their tools clean just fine since the modern inventions of indoor plumbing and condoms.

Got anything better? Imo, you have not presented an acceptable argument exempting circumcision.

Like I said, I've had friends over the years who weren't circumcised, and the majority of them said that they wished they had been circumcised as a kid, because keeping up with cleanliness was a bit of a hassle.

And, even though I'm circumcised, I'm happy with the pleasure I get out of sex. But like I said, I can't think of any reason other than cruelty to do it to women.

Is preventing a hassle worth mutilation? I dislike spending so much time clipping my nails. Should I have had them surgically removed as a baby like they do with cats? Does the baby not deserve a choice on it? There is a segment, I dont know how large, that wish they had not been circumcised.

It isn't the same as female genital circumcision.

 

[koshergrl]

That conclusion makes no sense. If this woman is performing FGMs *IN* Mohammed's lifetime, that just confirms that it was

What a terrible argument. That doesn't speak to the intent of people doing it today. Prayer was also around before Islam...saying so would not suddenly mean that modern Muslims aren't praying for Allah.

I never said or implied that Islam was the origin of this practice. Not once. So maybe you meant to post that to someone else...?


And the passage of the Hadith i cited is, indeed, the passage first cited when Muslims claim FGM is mandated by Islam. The passage literally describes Mohammed teaching someone how to do it.

Similarly, 19th century Christians turned to the passages on slavery in the Bible as justification and defense of slavery.

And Christians also turned to passages in the Bible to chastise Democrats for their stupidity regarding biblical slave references. Abolitionists were Christians.

 

[Pogo]

That conclusion makes no sense. If this woman is performing FGMs *IN* Mohammed's lifetime, that just confirms that it was

What a terrible argument. That doesn't speak to the intent of people doing it today. Prayer was also around before Islam...saying so would not suddenly mean that modern Muslims aren't praying for Allah.

I never said or implied that Islam was the origin of this practice. Not once. So maybe you meant to post that to someone else...?


And the passage of the Hadith i cited is, indeed, the passage first cited when Muslims claim FGM is mandated by Islam. The passage literally describes Mohammed teaching someone how to do it.

Similarly, 19th century Christians turned to the passages on slavery in the Bible as justification and defense of slavery.

And Christians also turned to passages in the Bible to chastise Democrats for their stupidity regarding biblical slave references. Abolitionists were Christians.

"Democrats" didn't even exist then, Stupid.

 

[The Original Tree]

Abraham was the father of both Isaac and Ishmael, Arab and Jew.

The religion of Abraham Judaism, and Its New Covenant offspring Christianity does not practice Genital Mutilation in any form.

So is The God of Abraham the same as the god of Ishmael?

I do not believe so.

The names for God in Judaism and Christianity are both the same. God cannot lie in both faiths and in both faiths Satan is called The Deceiver and Father of Lies & A Murderer From The Beginning.

In Islam, allah is called the great deceiver, the trickster god, and the greatest of liars.

Has allah deceived Muslims in to doing such thing as, Practicing Sharia Law, Engaging In Jihad, Genital Mutilation Committing Suicide Bombings with a promise of paradise and 72 virgins in heaven?

Both Christianity and Judaism say there is no sex in heaven and that human beings are elevated above such earthly human desires.

Those are just a couple examples. Study for yourselves. allah & Jehovah are not the same.

Genital Mutilation is not a godly act of obedience to God, it is rather an ungodly deception and a method of oppression and cruelty foisted upon downtrodden women.

 

[keepitreal]

Where is The Lying Left's OUTRAGE at Genital Mutilations being performed on women in these Muslim Enclaves in America?

You won't hear it. The Left hates women, babies and children as much as Radical Islam does.

To think that we have to start writing laws in AMERICA forbidding Genital Mutilation of little girls is disgusting, vile and putrid.

The Left brought this Evil in to this Country, and The Left should bear the responsibility for such disgusting behavior.

Minnesota lawmaker's push for tougher female genital mutilation law faces opposition

MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. – Republican state legislator Mary Franson has spent two years pushing for a new state law that would allow tougher prosecution of parents who facilitate or allow the genital mutilation of their daughters.

But Franson and supporters of those who want to punish more than just the practitioners of the horribly painful and widely condemned practice are finding opposition, both active and passive, to what its supporters believe should be a legislative no-brainer.

“The bill makes FGM (female genital mutilation) a felony, and it empowers social services to come in and take those children out of the home and remove the parental right from those parents,” Franson told Fox News in an interview. “This is completely on par with child endangerment such as criminal sexual conduct or assault with a dangerous weapon – anything that causes substantial bodily harm.”

Franson’s efforts have been far from smooth sailing. When her bill first hit the floor in 2017, it faced tough questioning from several lawmakers – among them then-state legislator and current U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar, who suggested Franson was using the bill as a bid for press attention.

"What I don't want us to do is to create laws because we want to get in the media,” Omar stated in a committee at the time. "What I would like to have been done is to have (the parents) charged with laws that already exist.”

Despite Omar's concerns, she and another 123 House members voted for the bill to pass on. Four other representatives did not. The bill fell flat in the Minnesota Senate.

Franson said Omar should have done more. “Ilhan hasn’t mentioned it at all. She never spoke about it on the House floor. She was in the back room watching it on the TV until it became time to vote, and she had to come out and vote.”

Omar’s support would have been particularly important because she represented the large Somali community where girls are at higher risk of being forced into FGM. And Franson argues it was in fact pressure from that community that kept her bill from moving forward.

Franson pointed to one case in 2017 in which two girls belonging to a small Indian Muslim sect known as the Dawoodi Bohra, according to court documents, who were taken to Michigan to have FGM performed, which Franson said motivated her to examine the issue more carefully.

“If this wasn’t happening,” Franson asked, “then why is our own health department dedicating resources to this?”

The Minnesota Department of Health offers an FGM “cutting prevention and outreach program” that offers funding for the MDH Refugee and International Health Program and the International Institute of Minnesota (IIMN) to form and co-lead a working group dedicated to prevention and community engagement on the matter.

The custom is not only carried out by trained medical practitioners in some communities; but also community elders in non-safe settings - with sharp scissors as a tool of choice.

ROFLMFAO

You have parents that are allowed to feed their kids drugs
that alter and interfere with the progression of their gender

You have medical professionals that encourage such
and provide the services for, and mental health professionals
that see absolutely nothing wrong with any of it

Who are we to decide people’s customs

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That is indeed a terrible argument. When Hitler wrote that by eradicating Jews he was "finishing the work of the Lord", his intent doesn't magically make Christianism responsible for his wackjob interpretation of it.

So? I said they were doing it for Allah. I didn't say that Allah was actually real and telling them to do it. I blame delusional people more than i blame Islam. But I do blame Islam a little . Because that is their religion, and they can, indeed, find a passage of their #1 man who ever was and ever will be teaching someone how to do it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

CLEARLY to the extent they need to re-educate these people they're addressing mythologies

Correct, they are mythologies. And some are better than others. Just as Christianity had to reform . And still is.

 

[Pogo]

Abraham was the father of both Isaac and Ishmael, Arab and Jew.

The religion of Abraham Judaism, and Its New Covenant offspring Christianity does not practice Genital Mutilation in any form.

So is The God of Abraham the same as the god of Ishmael?

I do not believe so.

The names for God in Judaism and Christianity are both the same. God cannot lie in both faiths and on both faiths Satan is called The Deceiver and Father of Lies.

In Islam, allah is called the great deceiver, the trickster god, and the greatest of liars.

Has allah deceived Muslims in to doing since thing as, Practicing Sharia Law, Engaging In Jihad, Genital Mutilation Committing Suicide with a promise of paradise and 72 virgins in heaven.

Both Christianity and Judaism say there is no sexy in heaven and that human beings are elevated aboive such earthly human desires.

Those are just a couple examples. Study for yourselves. allah & Jehovah are not the same.

Oboy, a tangent.

So this line is interesting:

In Islam, allah is called the great deceiver, the trickster god, and the greatest of liars.​

"Trickster god" is an icon that appears in religions worldwide. In the Yoruba traditions of the Americas he's called Exu-Elegba (in Brazil), Echu in Cuba, Legba in Haiti... in other traditions he appears as "Bre'r Rabbit" (Africa) and " Coyote " (Native America).

But these archetypes refer to a spirit of nature --- not a "god" in the western sense but an essence --- which upsets the natural or expected order of things, in other words the agent of change and upheaval. Only in the Abrahamic monotheist religions is this entity weirdly transmuted into something "evil". That's why the concept of "Satan" is so damn silly.

Has allah deceived Muslims in to doing since [sic] thing as, Practicing Sharia Law, Engaging In Jihad, Genital Mutilation Committing Suicide with a promise of paradise and 72 virgins in heaven.​

Nope, none of the above. That's all done by politicians and activists and mythologists and, in the case of FGM, a lingering cultural practice that was already centuries old before Mohammed was a gleam in his circumcised daddy's eye.

But say, speaking of the great deceiver, you just contradicted your own earlier post where you started whining and stomping your feet about Islam being not-a-religion. So there's that.

 

[Pogo]

That is indeed a terrible argument. When Hitler wrote that by eradicating Jews he was "finishing the work of the Lord", his intent doesn't magically make Christianism responsible for his wackjob interpretation of it.

So? I said they were doing it for Allah. I didn't say that Allah was actually real and telling them to do it. I blame delusional people more than i blame Islam. But I do blame Islam a little . Because that is their religion, and they can, indeed, find a passage of their #1 man who ever was and ever will be teaching someone how to do it.

Once again --- WHERE in your completely unlinked hadith does Mohammed say it's a religious thing?

Back up to your last line, by that logic you also have to blame Christianism for the Nazi Holocaust, on the basis that Hitler hid behind it.

 

[dblack]

Where is The Lying Left's OUTRAGE at Genital Mutilations being performed on women in these Muslim Enclaves in America?

You won't hear it. The Left hates women, babies and children as much as Radical Islam does.

To think that we have to start writing laws in AMERICA forbidding Genital Mutilation of little girls is disgusting, vile and putrid.

The Left brought this Evil in to this Country, and The Left should bear the responsibility for such disgusting behavior.

Minnesota lawmaker's push for tougher female genital mutilation law faces opposition

MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. – Republican state legislator Mary Franson has spent two years pushing for a new state law that would allow tougher prosecution of parents who facilitate or allow the genital mutilation of their daughters.

But Franson and supporters of those who want to punish more than just the practitioners of the horribly painful and widely condemned practice are finding opposition, both active and passive, to what its supporters believe should be a legislative no-brainer.

“The bill makes FGM (female genital mutilation) a felony, and it empowers social services to come in and take those children out of the home and remove the parental right from those parents,” Franson told Fox News in an interview. “This is completely on par with child endangerment such as criminal sexual conduct or assault with a dangerous weapon – anything that causes substantial bodily harm.”

Franson’s efforts have been far from smooth sailing. When her bill first hit the floor in 2017, it faced tough questioning from several lawmakers – among them then-state legislator and current U.S. Rep. Ilhan Omar, who suggested Franson was using the bill as a bid for press attention.

"What I don't want us to do is to create laws because we want to get in the media,” Omar stated in a committee at the time. "What I would like to have been done is to have (the parents) charged with laws that already exist.”

Despite Omar's concerns, she and another 123 House members voted for the bill to pass on. Four other representatives did not. The bill fell flat in the Minnesota Senate.

Franson said Omar should have done more. “Ilhan hasn’t mentioned it at all. She never spoke about it on the House floor. She was in the back room watching it on the TV until it became time to vote, and she had to come out and vote.”

Omar’s support would have been particularly important because she represented the large Somali community where girls are at higher risk of being forced into FGM. And Franson argues it was in fact pressure from that community that kept her bill from moving forward.

Franson pointed to one case in 2017 in which two girls belonging to a small Indian Muslim sect known as the Dawoodi Bohra, according to court documents, who were taken to Michigan to have FGM performed, which Franson said motivated her to examine the issue more carefully.

“If this wasn’t happening,” Franson asked, “then why is our own health department dedicating resources to this?”

The Minnesota Department of Health offers an FGM “cutting prevention and outreach program” that offers funding for the MDH Refugee and International Health Program and the International Institute of Minnesota (IIMN) to form and co-lead a working group dedicated to prevention and community engagement on the matter.

The custom is not only carried out by trained medical practitioners in some communities; but also community elders in non-safe settings - with sharp scissors as a tool of choice.

The main thing is, government should decide. All hail the ubiquitous state!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

WHERE in your completely unlinked hadith does Mohammed say it's a religious thing

Why are you asking me? Ask the Muslims who cite it. My answer, from an outside perspective, is that simply by describing mohammed's approval and even instruction, many Muslims take it as doctrine. Which is a fact . You can find analogues of this process in Christianity as well. Islam is not only religion with prophets .

 

[grainbely]

How about circumcision? It's also mutilation and is still big in judeo christian circles.

Male circumcision serves a health need. It's easier to keep your unit clean if the foreskin is removed, as well as being circumcised makes it harder for you to catch STDs.

Female circumcision serves no viable health reasoning, nor does it do anything to benefit the female. Male circumcision benefits the male (and keeps the females from freaking out when they see you naked).

That's how they sell it. It also reduces pleasure from sex - which is one of the reasons for FGM. And it has been shown that dudes can keep their tools clean just fine since the modern inventions of indoor plumbing and condoms.

Got anything better? Imo, you have not presented an acceptable argument exempting circumcision.

Like I said, I've had friends over the years who weren't circumcised, and the majority of them said that they wished they had been circumcised as a kid, because keeping up with cleanliness was a bit of a hassle.

And, even though I'm circumcised, I'm happy with the pleasure I get out of sex. But like I said, I can't think of any reason other than cruelty to do it to women.

Is preventing a hassle worth mutilation? I dislike spending so much time clipping my nails. Should I have had them surgically removed as a baby like they do with cats? Does the baby not deserve a choice on it? There is a segment, I dont know how large, that wish they had not been circumcised.

It isn't the same as female genital circumcision.

I get that, but there are overlaps. They are in the same ball park. The Christians and jews dont get off the hook for nothing on this one. Dont give them that for free. Frankly, circumcision should have ended when people started bathing every day.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I'd be good with not allowing child genital mutilation.

 

[dblack]

I'd be good with not allowing child genital mutilation.

Male circumcision too?