Gay Men Lose Challenge to Adoption Ban

[jon_forward]

acludem, given the way things are your reasoning is sound....however I have a major problem with gay people being able to be even temperary foster parents... parents...to me means having a mom..and a dad... not mom mom and dadmom...if we were meant to all be moms and at the same time dads reguardless as to our birth-given sex we would have all been born asexual....ie....an earthworm

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Big D
What do you mean by the truth about myself, Riddler.

There is nothing about myself I fear.

Are you trying to say that because I point out all the things about homo's like they are the majority of child molesters, serial killers, and sexual diseases, that I'm a homo myself?

Thats like saying I wish I was a illegal alian too.

Now, are you a homo?

Then why are you so fearfull of blacks, hispanics, "Furriners", "Homos", etc.

You obviously haven't looked deeply enough.

 

[Big D]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Then why are you so fearfull of blacks, hispanics, "Furriners", "Homos", etc.

You obviously haven't looked deeply enough.

First you wanted to know what I feared about myself.
Now you want to know what I fear from others.

O.K Dr Phil I'll play.

I fear blacks and hispanics because of there extreamly high rates of violent crime and how when they move into a area they lower the standards of living.

I fear homos because they are the majority of child molesters, serial killers, and lead all other groups with sexual diseases.

I understand that not all blacks, hispanics and homos have these problems, but enough of them do to make it a problem.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Big D
First you wanted to know what I feared about myself.
Now you want to know what I fear from others.

O.K Dr Phil I'll play.

I fear blacks and hispanics because of there extreamly high rates of violent crime and how when they move into a area they lower the standards of living.

I fear homos because they are the majority of child molesters, serial killers, and lead all other groups with sexual diseases.

I understand that not all blacks, hispanics and homos have these problems, but enough of them do to make it a problem.

Keep lookin'...

 

[acludem]

What about lesbians who bear children through sperm donation? Would you take their natural born children away from them? How about single mothers or fathers? Would you take away their children? Gays and lesbians should enjoy the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else. Florida's policy was passed because of homophobia and bigotry, and clearly violates the Constitutional guarantee of equal protection under the law. Both the District Court Judge and the Court of Appeals chose to willfully ignore two recent decisions of the Supreme Court, the case in Colorado where the court let stand a ruling that the state could not discriminate against gays for moral reasons, and the case in which gays and lesbians were finally freed to love each other in their own homes without fear of legal retribution.
Clearly these southern judges aren't going to overturn it, so hopefully the U.S. Supreme Court will overturn this discriminatory and wrongheaded law.

acludem

 

[jon_forward]

I feel that those that already have children should be "grandfathered in" ...but the laws need to be changed. there is a major difference between a previlage and a right...it is a previlage to drive a car...and also to have children... were is it stated that having children is a right???? what two consenting adults do to each other behind closed doors I could care less about, but I fail to make a link between gay rights and being a parent.

 

[acludem]

Human beings are made capable of reproducing by nature. I wouldn't say being able to use this natural ability is a privilege. To have a child is a great gift, I would think (I have no children, and don't plan to anytime soon), but I wouldn't call parenthood a "privilege", I'd call it a gift. Obviously, we protect children whose parents abuse them or neglect them. We as a society have a responsibility to protect all children from abuse and neglect. Let me rephrase what I said above, parenthood isn't a "right" or a "privilege" it's a great responsibility, one, I'm not frankly ready for.

Gay men do not have the advantage that lesbians have - neither partner is female, thus having the ability to bear natural children. I have heard of some gay couples paying for surrogates, but many of these couples want to adopt to help kids that need a loving, secure home. If a gay couple wants to take responsibility for a child, so long as they do not abuse or neglect the child, they should be able to. And don't feed me some bull about kissing your partner or holding hands in front of your child is abuse. My parents kissed in front of me many times when I was a child - I seem to recall the word "yucky" coming to mind. Have any of you who are straight and have children kissed your spouse/significant other in front of the kids - even just a little peck on the cheek? Of course you have. If I'm fortunate enough to find the right woman, and we are blessed with children, I'm sure I'll kiss her in front our kids (yes, believe it or not, I'm a straight male). It's better than smacking her in front them, which unfortunately is witnessed by many children.

Okay...pant...pant...pant. My response has been long winded enough. Support equal rights and responsibilities for all Americans.

acludem

 

[Isaac Brock]

Just a quick thought more than anything.

Wouldn't allowing a loving gay couple to adopt be better than having a kid grow up alone in some orphanage? I think we've all seen the studies posted on this board relating reckless behaviour and poverty to lack of a family to nurture, which i think has much merit. A homosexual couple might be a different unit, it might not even be as good as a heterosexual family unit (if you believe that), but the child would be at least be loved.

And please, I don't want to hear of any pedophillic homophobic arguments please. Let's say as a case to avoid that topic, two gay women adopting a boy.

As a side note, an acquaintance of mine at university grew up with two lesbian moms, though he was the biological son of one of him, and he grew up to be a normal, heterosexual guy in engineering. I know this is just one example, but surely their are other "success" stories.

 

[acludem]

I entirely agree Isaac. Here's another one - what about kids raised by a mother and grandmother, or a father and grandfather? Should they be taken away? I simply reject the idea that children can only be adequately raised by a man and a woman. I've known too many good people who weren't raised in this situtation.

acludem

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by acludem
I entirely agree Isaac. Here's another one - what about kids raised by a mother and grandmother, or a father and grandfather? Should they be taken away? I simply reject the idea that children can only be adequately raised by a man and a woman. I've known too many good people who weren't raised in this situtation.

acludem

Even single parents are often superb parents. No it's a good point and a hard line to draw for sure.

 

[Big D]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
Just a quick thought more than anything.

Wouldn't allowing a loving gay couple to adopt be better than having a kid grow up alone in some orphanage? I think we've all seen the studies posted on this board relating reckless behaviour and poverty to lack of a family to nurture, which i think has much merit. A homosexual couple might be a different unit, it might not even be as good as a heterosexual family unit (if you believe that), but would the child would be at least be loved.

And please, I don't want to hear of any pedophillic homophobic arguments please. Let's say as a case to avoid that topic, two gay women adopting a boy.

.

Problems with homosexual parents:

Relationship violence was found to be a significant problem for homosexuals. Forty-four (44) percent of the gay men reported having experienced violence in their relationships; 13 percent reported sexual violence and 83 percent reported emotional abuse. Levels of abuse ran even higher among lesbians: 55 percent reported physical violence in their relationships, 14 percent reported sexual abuse, and 84 percent reported emotional abuse.
The study is based on the health records of young Dutch homosexuals by Dr. Maria Xiridou of the Amsterdam Municipal Health Service and published in the May issue of the journal AIDS. It also found that men in homosexual relationships have an average of eight partners a year outside their main partnership, adding more evidence to the "stereotype" that homosexuals tend to be promiscuous.
A significantly greater proportion of young adult children raised by lesbian mothers than those raised by heterosexual mothers say they have experienced sexual intimacy with a partner of the same sex. They were not, however, statistically more likely to identify themselves as gay or lesbian.

• Young girls raised by lesbians are more likely to be sexually adventurous and active than their counterparts raised by heterosexual parents. However the sons of lesbians exhibit "an opposite pattern" and are likely to be less adventurous and active than boys raised by heterosexual households.

• Lesbian mothers reported that their children behave in ways that do not conform to "sex-typed cultural norms." And the sons of lesbians are reportedly less likely to behave in traditionally masculine ways than those raised by heterosexual couples.

Maybe the orphanage ain't so bad after all.

P.S I find it interesting that you want to debate the facts about homosexual adoption, but only if we exclude the facts about homosexual pedophiles.

Are there any other facts that you do not want in this debate?

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Big D
Problems with homosexual parents:

Relationship violence was found to be a significant problem for homosexuals. Forty-four (44) percent of the gay men reported having experienced violence in their relationships; 13 percent reported sexual violence and 83 percent reported emotional abuse. Levels of abuse ran even higher among lesbians: 55 percent reported physical violence in their relationships, 14 percent reported sexual abuse, and 84 percent reported emotional abuse.
The study is based on the health records of young Dutch homosexuals by Dr. Maria Xiridou of the Amsterdam Municipal Health Service and published in the May issue of the journal AIDS. It also found that men in homosexual relationships have an average of eight partners a year outside their main partnership, adding more evidence to the "stereotype" that homosexuals tend to be promiscuous.
A significantly greater proportion of young adult children raised by lesbian mothers than those raised by heterosexual mothers say they have experienced sexual intimacy with a partner of the same sex. They were not, however, statistically more likely to identify themselves as gay or lesbian.

• Young girls raised by lesbians are more likely to be sexually adventurous and active than their counterparts raised by heterosexual parents. However the sons of lesbians exhibit "an opposite pattern" and are likely to be less adventurous and active than boys raised by heterosexual households.

• Lesbian mothers reported that their children behave in ways that do not conform to "sex-typed cultural norms." And the sons of lesbians are reportedly less likely to behave in traditionally masculine ways than those raised by heterosexual couples.

Maybe the orphanage ain't so bad after all.

P.S I find it interesting that you want to debate the facts about homosexual adoption, but only if we exclude the facts about homosexual pedophiles.

Are there any other facts that you do not want in this debate?

Not all homosexuals are:
A) Pedophiles
B) Promiscuous
C) Abusive.

You know it I know it, hell even your statistics say that. I don't wish by any respects that those individuals should be able to adopt.

With respect to your claims, I can play the same game as you if you want.

Study: Kids of gay parents are different
Although children raised by same-sex parents are just as emotionally healthy as the offspring of heterosexual couples, they exhibit some different behaviors, say two University of Southern California sociologists.

A paper published in the most recent issue of American Sociological Review and written by Judith Stacey and Timothy J. Biblarz re-examines 21 studies over the past two decades that looked into same-sex parenting.

"These studies find no significant differences between children of lesbian and heterosexual mothers in anxiety, depression, self-esteem and numerous other measures of social and psychological adjustment," Stacey and Biblarz wrote. However, the sexual orientation of the parents as well as the gender of those parents does make a difference.

GLBT activists have typically fought for adoption and parenting rights by highlighting research that indicates no differences between children of gay and straight parents.

According to a report in the Los Angeles Times, Stacey and Biblarz found that sons and daughters of lesbian mothers are more likely to break away from societal expectations in how they dress, play and behave toward other people. Girls will consider occupations not traditionally thought to be feminine, and boys tend to be more affectionate and nurturing than those brought up by heterosexual parents.

The Times reports that Stacey believes there are some advantages to lesbian parenting, since both partners are likely to be involved in the children's lives and the couples are usually similar in parenting styles.

Six of the 25 children of lesbians had engaged in a same-sex relationship, compared to none of the 20 children from straight households. However there was no stronger likelihood for either group to identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual.

Boys from lesbian households were likely to be more chaste and less sexually adventurous than their counterparts from heterosexual households, while exactly the opposite was true of lesbians' daughters.

Most of Stacey and Bilbarz's work focused on lesbian parents, since little data has been gathered on the children of gay fathers.

Sounds like this study make gay parents seem better? How about this one from the American Psychological Association? I won't post the whole thing since it's fairly long.

http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html

Aren't statistics enjoyable? Statistics don't definte a person. Individuals do.

 

[Big D]

Do you really think it is healthy for any child to be around two men who define sex as two men penetrating each others bung holes?
How would you like to be a child living under the same roof where these actions take place?
Do you really think this would have no effect on a person, let alone a child?

 

[jon_forward]

given a choice between on orphanage and no love or a gay couple who are approved then I have to agree that the gay couple would be better short and long term for the child. thinking of a child growing up without ANY parent figure is just plain wrong... I have been swayed...thanx Isaak...as you may know my twin bro and I were adopted at birth so I do have a special insight into this subject. In fact my bro is looking to adopt a child after he is out of the corps in june...

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Big D
Do you really think it is healthy for any child to be around two men who define sex as two men penetrating each others bung holes?
How would you like to be a child living under the same roof where these actions take place?
Do you really think this would have no effect on a person, let alone a child?

Apparently those statistics seem to think so.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by jon_forward
given a choice between on orphanage and no love or a gay couple who are approved then I have to agree that the gay couple would be better short and long term for the child. thinking of a child growing up without ANY parent figure is just plain wrong... I have been swayed...thanx Isaak...as you may know my twin bro and I were adopted at birth so I do have a special insight into this subject. In fact my bro is looking to adopt a child after he is out of the corps in june...

I do remember you mentionning that, good to know that i'm not always out far in the left field. I really wish more people took up adoption in general. So many kids do need care.

 

[jon_forward]

my friend you are not"out there" in my book

 

[Bullypulpit]

...On this issue are nothing more than a reflection of his homophobia, which is an outgrowth of his racism.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
...On this issue are nothing more than a reflection of his homophobia, which is an outgrwth of his racism.

Here is the one thing that is almost never heard and to why the pro gay rights people always use homophobia as their defense: homosexuality is wrong no matter how you cut it, its wrong morally, and biologically. Man has an inate attraction to females to reproduce, likewise females and males have no natural attraction to each other for this very reason. This so called genetic link for pre disposed homosexuality will never be found because it doesn't exist which leads logically for me to say that its a lifestyle choice, a very dangerous lifestyle choice and one that should not be rewardes just like smoking crack or shooting heroin. People who choose the gay lifestyle were all born with the same inailiable rights as me and you and if they want such things as spousal benefits, adoption, marriage and all these other things they claim to have no access to the answer is simple:make the right decision and get together with somebody of the opposite sex and you will have these things. This is why they go through the courts and use activist judges to do their bidding because they know that if some pro gay right amendment was ever put to the voters it would be soundly beaten because most people see it for what it is:a disgusting, vile practice.
Now for the claims of homophobia that are always put forth when one speaks the truth and to which i'm sure i'll be labeled by some here there's a dirty little secret that the gays will never mention, they know their wrong and its human nature to say any crazy thing to try and defend yourself when you know your wrong, which is why you hear hompophobia, they know that has resonance because nobody wants to be labeled a hater and if they can get it to stick well that is just one more layer of insulation from the truth that they so desperately want to avoid.

In my opinion this is one of the biggest domestic threats facing America today and if this is allowed to become normal I shudder to think what is next.

 

[Big D]

Originally posted by OCA
Here is the one thing that is almost never heard and to why the pro gay rights people always use homophobia as their defense: homosexuality is wrong no matter how you cut it, its wrong morally, and biologically. Man has an inate attraction to females to reproduce, likewise females and males have no natural attraction to each other for this very reason. This so called genetic link for pre disposed homosexuality will never be found because it doesn't exist which leads logically for me to say that its a lifestyle choice, a very dangerous lifestyle choice and one that should not be rewardes just like smoking crack or shooting heroin. People who choose the gay lifestyle were all born with the same inailiable rights as me and you and if they want such things as spousal benefits, adoption, marriage and all these other things they claim to have no access to the answer is simple:make the right decision and get together with somebody of the opposite sex and you will have these things. This is why they go through the courts and use activist judges to do their bidding because they know that if some pro gay right amendment was ever put to the voters it would be soundly beaten because most people see it for what it is:a disgusting, vile practice.
Now for the claims of homophobia that are always put forth when one speaks the truth and to which i'm sure i'll be labeled by some here there's a dirty little secret that the gays will never mention, they know their wrong and its human nature to say any crazy thing to try and defend yourself when you know your wrong, which is why you hear hompophobia, they know that has resonance because nobody wants to be labeled a hater and if they can get it to stick well that is just one more layer of insulation from the truth that they so desperately want to avoid.

In my opinion this is one of the biggest domestic threats facing America today and if this is allowed to become normal I shudder to think what is next.

Amen,
Like the good book says,
in the end, what is right will be wrong and what is wrong will be right.

It is interesting how some people on here want to prove THEIR "tolorance" by making a harmful situation for a child.