From Pol Pot to the Islamic State

[georgephillip]

What do you imagine you're proving by claiming to "have sat in the 'Killing Fields' and looked out over the bones of the dead?"

That I know enough about the topic to know your infantile jokes about it are not funny.

You're the only one saying IS and the Killing Fields are humorous. I'm saying Operation Menu played the same role in facilitating the Killing Fields as Operation Iraqi Liberation played in facilitating IS. If you find either one funny, I suggest you look into therapy.

 

[georgephillip]

The very last thing Marxist-Leninists needed at the end of WWII was a Cold War with a continental superpower whose homeland infrastructure was untouched by the most destructive war in human history.

And yet the Soviet empire swallowed many Eastern European nations at the end of WW II.

Please don't ignore the brutality of Soviet imperialism.

The Black Book of Communism

I don't mean to ignore Soviet/Chinese terrorism over the past half-century; however, I don't want to minimize the history of hideous atrocities committed by the US over the same time period. One year to the day before his death, Martin King described the US as the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, and our actions have only become more hideous since 1967.
"Overcoming amnesia, suppose we now apply the methodology of the Black Book and its reviewers to the full story, not just the doctrinally acceptable half.

"We therefore conclude that in India the democratic capitalist 'experiment' since 1947 has caused more deaths than in the entire history of the 'colossal, wholly failed...experiment' of Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, tens of millions more since, in India alone.

"The 'criminal indictment' of the 'democratic capitalist experiment' becomes harsher still if we turn to its effects after the fall of Communism: millions of corpses in Russia, to take one case, as Russia followed the confident prescription of the World Bank that 'Countries that liberalise rapidly and extensively turn around more quickly [than those that do not],' returning to something like what it had been before World War I, a picture familiar throughout the 'third world.'

"But 'you can't make an omelette without broken eggs,' as Stalin would have said."
Counting the Bodies - Noam Chomsky Spectrezine

 

[georgephillip]

Pilger is a hack who markets simplistic nonsense to simplistic conspiracy nutters. Might as well quote Onion articles or Mad Magazine. The Red Chinese supported Pol Pot, and the U.S. nor any other SEATO country had anything to do with his rise to power.

As for U.S. foreign policy, the Viet Nam civil war was a necessity, even as it was one those necessities was there was no perfect outcome and all the choices were bad, it was the least bad option to attempt to prop up the South against Ho. As Kissinger said,"Many times in foreign policy all the choices are bad, so it's a matter of choosing the least bad choice.", and the VN policy was such a choice. We couldn't abandon our SEATO allies nor allow a Soviet naval base in Viet Nam.


As a result, there was no Soviet naval base built there astride the critical Asian sea routes, Brezshnev's Soviet Union was driven into bankruptcy and unable to keep maintaining their ME allies and African operations, and became dependent on Western wheat just to survive, hence the 'Detente' era. followed by Gorbachev's reforms. Despite all the dramatic sniveling and hyperbole, it was a long term policy victory for the West. And, we also headed off a Sino-Soviet conflict that could have easily escalated into WW III as well.

As for U.S. foreign policy, the Viet Nam civil war was a necessity, even as it was one those necessities was there was no perfect outcome and all the choices were bad, it was the least bad option to attempt to prop up the South against Ho. As Kissinger said,"Many times in foreign policy all the choices are bad, so it's a matter of choosing the least bad choice.", and the VN policy was such a choice. We couldn't abandon our SEATO allies nor allow a Soviet naval base in Viet Nam.


As a result, there was no Soviet naval base built there astride the critical Asian sea routes, Brezshnev's Soviet Union was driven into bankruptcy and unable to keep maintaining their ME allies and African operations, and became dependent on Western wheat just to survive, hence the 'Detente' era. followed by Gorbachev's reforms. Despite all the dramatic sniveling and hyperbole, it was a long term policy victory for the West. And, we also headed off a Sino-Soviet conflict that could have easily escalated into WW III as well.

"In 1979, Pilger and two colleagues with whom he collaborated for many years, documentary film-maker David Munro and photographer Eric Piper, entered Cambodia in the wake of the overthrow of the Pol Pot regime.

"They made photographs and reports that were world exclusives.

"The first was published as a special issue of the Daily Mirror, which sold out. They also produced an ITV documentary, Year Zero: the Silent Death of Cambodia,[20] which brought to people's living rooms the suffering of the Khmer people.

"Following the showing of Year Zero, some $45 million was raised, unsolicited, in mostly small donations, including almost £4 million raised by schoolchildren in the UK. This funded the first substantial relief to Cambodia, including the shipment of life-saving drugs such as penicillin, and clothing to replace the black uniforms people had been forced to wear."
John Pilger - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Maybe you should stop reading the Onion?

 

[georgephillip]

The very last thing Marxist-Leninists needed at the end of WWII was a Cold War with a continental superpower whose homeland infrastructure was untouched by the most destructive war in human history.

And yet the Soviet empire swallowed many Eastern European nations at the end of WW II.

Please don't ignore the brutality of Soviet imperialism.

The Black Book of Communism

Yes. It was the Soviets who were the aggressive imperialists after WW II, not the U.S., especially with the rise of Khrushchev and his fellow imperialist Brezhnev.

The Soviets' willingness to provide economic and military support to third world regimes that were targets of US subversion and aggression (like Cuba) came about in response to Washington's plans to construct a global system subservient to western capital. It wasn't the Soviets invading and occupying Korea and Vietnam after WWII; it was the US who engaged in those actions out of fear the Great Depression would return without war spending. Millions of innocent humans were maimed, murdered, and displaced by those misplaced policies.

 

[Thunderbird]

The Soviets' willingness to provide economic and military support to third world regimes that were targets of US subversion and aggression (like Cuba) came about in response to Washington's plans to construct a global system subservient to western capital. It wasn't the Soviets invading and occupying Korea and Vietnam after WWII; it was the US who engaged in those actions out of fear the Great Depression would return without war spending. Millions of innocent humans were maimed, murdered, and displaced by those misplaced policies.

Wow, that is real lunacy! Just to take one example: Kim Il-sung, backed by Stalin and Mao, invaded South Korea. The U.S. only responded.

And do you think a war economy is necessary for prosperity? Look at the Swiss - rich, but peaceful.

Another question I bet you won't answer: Where would you rather live, North Korea or South Korea?

 

[Thunderbird]

I don't mean to ignore Soviet/Chinese terrorism over the past half-century;

Good.

"Overcoming amnesia, suppose we now apply the methodology of the Black Book and its reviewers to the full story, not just the doctrinally acceptable half.

"We therefore conclude that in India the democratic capitalist 'experiment' since 1947 has caused more deaths than in the entire history of the 'colossal, wholly failed...experiment' of Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, tens of millions more since, in India alone.

More craziness.

1) Is your argument that Communists like Mao were incredibly awful, but India was poor so we shouldn't dwell on Communist brutality? Because that's pretty weak.
2) Why on earth do you think India since 1947 has been capitalist?! Indira Gandhi for one nationalized many industries.
3) I'm glad you brought up Amartya Sen. Amartya Sen's millions of missing women were mostly victims of the abortion industry and its Western elite liberal allies.

Review - Unnatural Selection, by Mara Hvistendahl

"The 'criminal indictment' of the 'democratic capitalist experiment'

So you don't believe in democracy?

 

[georgephillip]

The Soviets' willingness to provide economic and military support to third world regimes that were targets of US subversion and aggression (like Cuba) came about in response to Washington's plans to construct a global system subservient to western capital. It wasn't the Soviets invading and occupying Korea and Vietnam after WWII; it was the US who engaged in those actions out of fear the Great Depression would return without war spending. Millions of innocent humans were maimed, murdered, and displaced by those misplaced policies.

Wow, that is real lunacy! Just to take one example: Kim Il-sung, backed by Stalin and Mao, invaded South Korea. The U.S. only responded.

And do you think a war economy is necessary for prosperity? Look at the Swiss - rich, but peaceful.

Another question I bet you won't answer: Where would you rather live, North Korea or South Korea?

I would choose South Korea over North Korea and the US over both as the freest place on earth to live.

That doesn't mean I'm ignorant of or indifferent to the historical role the US played in sabotaging Korean reunification in 1945, five years before the North "invaded."

Pop Quiz:

"6. In August 1945 defeated Japanese forces formally turned over authority in Korea to the broad-based Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence, led by Lyuh Woon-hyung, which in September proclaimed the Korean People’s Republic (KPR). When U.S. forces under Gen. Reed Hodge arrived in Inchon to accept the Japanese surrender, they

a. ordered all Japanese officials to remain in their posts, refused to recognize Lyuh as national leader, and soon banned all public reference to the KPR

b. recognized Lyuh as the legitimate head of state

c. negotiated with Lyuh to facilitate swift attainment of independence of a united Korea

Lyuh remains to this day one of the few Korean political leaders widely admired on both sides of the 38th Parallel.

Why do you think the US denied Koreans their right to self-determination in 1945?

A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

 

[georgephillip]

I don't mean to ignore Soviet/Chinese terrorism over the past half-century;

Good.

"Overcoming amnesia, suppose we now apply the methodology of the Black Book and its reviewers to the full story, not just the doctrinally acceptable half.

"We therefore conclude that in India the democratic capitalist 'experiment' since 1947 has caused more deaths than in the entire history of the 'colossal, wholly failed...experiment' of Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, tens of millions more since, in India alone.

More craziness.

1) Is your argument that Communists like Mao were incredibly awful, but India was poor so we shouldn't dwell on Communist brutality? Because that's pretty weak.
2) Why on earth do you think India since 1947 has been capitalist?! Indira Gandhi for one nationalized many industries.
3) I'm glad you brought up Amartya Sen. Amartya Sen's millions of missing women were mostly victims of the abortion industry and its Western elite liberal allies.

Review - Unnatural Selection, by Mara Hvistendahl

"The 'criminal indictment' of the 'democratic capitalist experiment'

So you don't believe in democracy?

I believe in democracy, but not in colonialism or genocide.
From your link:
"A heady concoction of sloppy research, recidivist racism, an abiding faith in the impeachability of imperialism, and an equally visceral contempt for the natives all combined to produce colonial interventions of such stupendous stupidity that the tragic consequences are being borne by the colonies even today. 'Imprecise and wrong-headed categories became exact and prescient with time. 'The prescription for these societal ills was, almost without fail, intervention.'

"When, after independence from the British colonialists, Indian researchers started to pore over the 'meticulous records in archives in Bombay' (now 'Mumbai') and Delhi, what they found was:
"'no less than remarkable: the British tax collection drive that occasioned Jonathan Duncan’s discovery of female infanticide had actually helped cause the crime. … In 1793, as it consolidated its power in the interior, the East India Company overhauled India’s system of land administration, introducing stricter, more delineated property rights. The new order was essentially medieval feudalism transported to India, where such an arrangement had never before existed. Women had once held property rights, but now they were excluded from owning land.' (Metcalf and Metcalf, Concise History, 91.))"
Why do conservatives fear equality??

 

[Thunderbird]

I would choose South Korea over North Korea

Which makes your embrace of the North Korean dictators hard to understand.

That doesn't mean I'm ignorant of or indifferent to the historical role the US played in sabotaging Korean reunification in 1945, five years before the North "invaded."

quote: General Hodge directly controlled South Korea as head of the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGIK 1945–48). He established control by restoring to power the key Japanese colonial administrators, but in the face of Korean protests he quickly reversed himself. The USAMGIK refused to recognize the provisional government of the short-lived People's Republic of Korea (PRK) because it suspected it was communist.

link: Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The People's Republic of Korea had not been elected, the U.S. was not obliged to hand them the reins of power. The U.S. was the first to hold elections on 10 May 1948.

And now please tell me why Kim Il-sung's tanks and soldiers moving into South Korea on 25 June 1950 was not an invasion. Were they just out for a stroll?

Not an invasion!

 

[Thunderbird]

I believe in democracy, but not in colonialism or genocide.

Chomsky tries to diminish the crimes of the CCP by pointing to the 100 million missing women of Amartya Sen, but it turns out these women were mostly the victims of the abortion industry so loved by Western elite liberals and their tools!

 

[georgephillip]

I would choose South Korea over North Korea

Which makes your embrace of the North Korean dictators hard to understand.

That doesn't mean I'm ignorant of or indifferent to the historical role the US played in sabotaging Korean reunification in 1945, five years before the North "invaded."

quote: General Hodge directly controlled South Korea as head of the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGIK 1945–48). He established control by restoring to power the key Japanese colonial administrators, but in the face of Korean protests he quickly reversed himself. The USAMGIK refused to recognize the provisional government of the short-lived People's Republic of Korea (PRK) because it suspected it was communist.

link: Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The People's Republic of Korea had not been elected, the U.S. was not obliged to hand them the reins of power. The U.S. was the first to hold elections on 10 May 1948.

And now please tell me why Kim Il-sung's tanks and soldiers moving into South Korea on 25 June 1950 was not an invasion. Were they just out for a stroll?

Not an invasion!

"The People's Republic of Korea had not been elected, the U.S. was not obliged to hand them the reins of power. The U.S. was the first to hold elections on 10 May 1948."
The US was not obliged to invade and occupy a territory that had been subject to a brutal Japanese occupation for thirty-five years either. The last thing most Koreans wanted in 1945 was another country controlling their self determination.
"The Imperial Japanese colonial authorities requested that a government be established to ensure the safety of their persons and property after the occupation ended. Under the leadership ofYeo Un-hyeong, the newly formed Committee for the Preparation of Korean Independence (CPKI) organized people's committees throughout the country to coordinate the transition to independence. On August 28, 1945 the CPKI announced that it would function as the temporary national government of Korea.[1] On September 12, CPKI activists met in Seoul and established the PRK."
People s Republic of Korea - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

I would choose South Korea over North Korea

Which makes your embrace of the North Korean dictators hard to understand.

That doesn't mean I'm ignorant of or indifferent to the historical role the US played in sabotaging Korean reunification in 1945, five years before the North "invaded."

quote: General Hodge directly controlled South Korea as head of the United States Army Military Government in Korea (USAMGIK 1945–48). He established control by restoring to power the key Japanese colonial administrators, but in the face of Korean protests he quickly reversed himself. The USAMGIK refused to recognize the provisional government of the short-lived People's Republic of Korea (PRK) because it suspected it was communist.

link: Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The People's Republic of Korea had not been elected, the U.S. was not obliged to hand them the reins of power. The U.S. was the first to hold elections on 10 May 1948.

And now please tell me why Kim Il-sung's tanks and soldiers moving into South Korea on 25 June 1950 was not an invasion. Were they just out for a stroll?

Not an invasion!

The People's Republic of Korea had not been elected, the U.S. was not obliged to hand them the reins of power. The U.S. was the first to hold elections on 10 May 1948.

The US wasn't obliged to hand control to the rich Korean landowners and capitalists who collaborated with the Japanese either.
"In December 1945, Korea was administered by a U.S.-Soviet Union Joint Commission, as agreed at the Moscow Conference (1945), with the aim of granting independence after a five-year trusteeship.[60][61]

"The idea was not popular among Koreans and riots broke out.[43]

"To contain them, the USAMGIK banned strikes on 8 December 1945 and outlawed the PRK Revolutionary Government and the PRK People's Committees on 12 December 1945."
Korean War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The PRK earned to right to hold reunification elections in Korea by virtue of their resistance to the Japanese occupation, an occupation rich capitalist Koreans collaborated with. Can you guess why?
"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

"The program included: 'the confiscation without compensation of lands held by the Japanese and collaborators; free distribution of that land to the peasants; rent limits on the nonredistributed land; nationalization of such major industries as mining, transportation, banking, and communication; state supervision of small and mid-sized companies; …guaranteed basic human rights and freedoms, including those of speech, press, assembly, and faith; universal suffrage to adults over the age of eighteen; equality for women; labor law reforms including an eight-hour day, a minimum wage, and prohibition of child labor; and 'establishment of close relations with the United States, USSR, England, and China, and positive opposition to any foreign influences interfering with the domestic affairs of the state.'[2][3]"
You asked why North Koreans "invaded" South Korea in 1950? Because the US denied basic human rights and universal suffrage to the people of South Korea in 1945.
People s Republic of Korea - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Thunderbird]

"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

Communists have been known to put nice words on pieces of paper to fool the gullible.

The PRK earned to right to hold reunification elections in Korea by virtue of their resistance to the Japanese occupation,

Evidence for this statement?

You asked why North Koreans "invaded" South Korea in 1950? Because the US denied basic human rights and universal suffrage to the people of South Korea in 1945.

Laughable! You believe the North Korean dictators have championed freedom and democracy??

 

[georgephillip]

"The program of the PRK was presented in its September 14 twenty-seven point program.

Communists have been known to put nice words on pieces of paper to fool the gullible.

The PRK earned to right to hold reunification elections in Korea by virtue of their resistance to the Japanese occupation,

Evidence for this statement?

You asked why North Koreans "invaded" South Korea in 1950? Because the US denied basic human rights and universal suffrage to the people of South Korea in 1945.

Laughable! You believe the North Korean dictators have championed freedom and democracy??

I never said "North Korean dictators have championed freedom and democracy." I said the US and only the US prevented reunification elections in Korea in 1945 that would have prevented all Korean dictators, North and South.
"14. Park Chung-hee, who had served in the Japanese army during the Second World War, participated in a coup in 1961, and then became president (South Korea) in 1963. His rule, to 1979, was characterized by

a. economic growth and political liberalization

b. a 'sunshine policy' towards North Korea

c. economic growth, martial law, censorship, political repression, and torture of political prisoners
CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names

 

[Thunderbird]

I said the US and only the US prevented reunification elections in Korea in 1945 that would have prevented all Korean dictators, North and South.

The U.S. prevented the imposition of a Soviet puppet regime which would have delighted in mass famine, prison camps, torture, executions, and general tyranny.

 

[georgephillip]

I said the US and only the US prevented reunification elections in Korea in 1945 that would have prevented all Korean dictators, North and South.

The U.S. prevented the imposition of a Soviet puppet regime which would have delighted in mass famine, prison camps, torture, executions, and general tyranny.

You don't know much Korean History, do you?
"5. In accordance with a wartime agreement that the USSR would enter the war with Japan following the German surrender, Soviet forces invaded Korea in August, advancing to the 38th parallel by August 10. They could easily have occupied the whole peninsula. What did they do?

a. They accepted the Japanese surrender, provided arms to local communist forces led by Kim Il-sung, and withdrew within the year.

b. They consulted with their American allies, who requested that they stop their advance at the 38th parallel, so that U.S. forces could in the next month occupy the rest of Korea. The Soviets agreed to the U.S. proposal.

c. They proclaimed the Korean Soviet Republic and made plans for permanent incorporation into the USSR.
A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names
The Koreans needed no help from the Soviets or the Americans to reunify in 1945; the Soviets recognized this fact and Truman rejected it.

 

[Thunderbird]

georgephillip hopes the whole Korean peninsula, not just the northern half, can enjoy the blessings of Communist rule.

Pyongyang’s Hunger Games

The Crimes of Kim Jong Il

North Korean dictator Kim Il-sung thought transfusions of blood from youths would help him live to 100

THE WORST BUILDING ON EARTH?

Freedom of the Press

 

[Thunderbird]

You don't know much Korean History, do you?

You think parroting a couple of far left articles makes you knowledgeable?

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip hopes the whole Korean peninsula, not just the northern half, can enjoy the blessings of Communist rule.

Pyongyang’s Hunger Games

The Crimes of Kim Jong Il

North Korean dictator Kim Il-sung thought transfusions of blood from youths would help him live to 100

THE WORST BUILDING ON EARTH?

Freedom of the Press

Wrong, again. I'm not sufficiently racist to believe Koreans needed an occupation at the end of WWII to reunify their country.

Why are you?

"Lyuh Woon-hyung (May 25, 1886 – July 19, 1947) was a Korean politician who argued that Korean independence was essential to world peace, and a reunification activist who struggled for the independentreunification of Korea since its national division in 1945.

"His pen-name was Mongyang (몽양; 夢陽), the Hanja for 'dream' and 'light.'

"He is rare among politicians in modern Korean history in that he is revered in both South and North Korea."
Lyuh Woon-hyung - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

You don't know much Korean History, do you?

You think parroting a couple of far left articles makes you knowledgeable?

I think the author of the article I posted has forgotten more Korean History than you and I have ever learned:
Department of History - Tufts University
"(Choose the best answer. 3 points each. Answers at the end.)

1. In 1866 the U.S. merchant ship General Sherman defied the laws of Korea (then pursuing a policy of strict isolation) by entering Korean waters, and sailing up the Taedong River towards Pyongyang to demand trade. What happened to the ship?

a. It was attacked by local people and soldiers, burned, and sunk, with the loss of its entire crew.

b. Its crew was politely told that since Korea was a satrapy of China all negotiations concerning commerce had to take place via Beijing.

c. It was welcomed, and Korean officials began discussing with the Americans a Treaty of Amity and Commerce.
A Pop Quiz on Korea CounterPunch Tells the Facts Names the Names