Freedom of speech? Not for our police officers

[rightwinger]

He did, and he got fired for it. I hardly call that freedom of speech.

And the Federal government (which is what the Constitution is about) had nothing to do with it

You mean like the federal government has nothing to do with schools, yet a local school funded by local taxpayers are forbidden from even mentioning the word God?

The Constiution has precedence

 

[rightwinger]

He did, and he got fired for it. I hardly call that freedom of speech.

And the Federal government (which is what the Constitution is about) had nothing to do with it

You mean like the federal government has nothing to do with schools, yet a local school funded by local taxpayers are forbidden from even mentioning the word God?

Why do you lie?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

What am I lying about?

"are forbidden from even mentioning the word God?"

They say the pledge of allegiance every day
One nation under god

 

[rightwinger]

He still has his freedom of speech, he can say whatever wants.

He did, and he got fired for it. I hardly call that freedom of speech.

Can he say whatever he wants now?

Sure he can. The government retaliated against him for exercising his rights. They can't do anything more to him.

He choose to violate the departments code of conduct that he agreed to when he accepted a paycheck from them.

When the government is your employer the government has all the rights of any other employer.




Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

My employer doesn't have the right to tell me what I can or cannot do on my free time, especially when it comes to exercising my constitutional rights.

Sure he can

First rule of employment......if you embarrass your employer, you get fired

 

[Harpy Eagle]

My employer doesn't have the right to tell me what I can or cannot do on my free time, especially when it comes to exercising my constitutional rights.

Of course they do. Almost every employer has a code of conduct and things they will fire you over even if it happens off company time.

Let me ask you this, if your company did a drug test on you and found weed in your system that you smoked on your own time, what would they do about it?

 

[pinqy]

If you want to exercise your rights, you are free to do so on your own time. In this case, what's being said here is that this officer is never allowed to exercise his rights on the job or off. So there is a big difference there.

I have the right as an American citizen to vote. I cannot stop at the polling place on company time and vote. I can vote before I go to work or after, therefore the company is not interfering in my right to vote, just not on their time.

what you do not have the right to is a job, so if the people paying you have the right to fire you if they do not like the way you exercised your rights.

This has nothing to do with rights to have a job. It has to do with rights to free speech.

But his free speech was not violated. The first amendment guarantee for free speech is that no LAW shall infringe it. And even that’s not without limits (threats, incitement to riot, perjury, plagiarism slander, fraud).

The officer was not imprisoned or arrested. No violation of his free speech rights. He was fired, which is the right his employer, even if the employer is the government.

Again: the right to free speech is the right not to be fined, arrested, imprisoned, or otherwise found in violaion of the law. It is not a guarantee that you can’t be fired, or denied a platform for your speech

Okay, so what if all government workers were not allowed to vote? If they are found voting, they lose their job. Would you be okay with that?

Of course not: that is illegal under the Civil Rights Act of 1957.
What law are claiming was violated here?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If you want to exercise your rights, you are free to do so on your own time. In this case, what's being said here is that this officer is never allowed to exercise his rights on the job or off. So there is a big difference there.

I have the right as an American citizen to vote. I cannot stop at the polling place on company time and vote. I can vote before I go to work or after, therefore the company is not interfering in my right to vote, just not on their time.

what you do not have the right to is a job, so if the people paying you have the right to fire you if they do not like the way you exercised your rights.

This has nothing to do with rights to have a job. It has to do with rights to free speech.

But his free speech was not violated. The first amendment guarantee for free speech is that no LAW shall infringe it. And even that’s not without limits (threats, incitement to riot, perjury, plagiarism slander, fraud).

The officer was not imprisoned or arrested. No violation of his free speech rights. He was fired, which is the right his employer, even if the employer is the government.

Again: the right to free speech is the right not to be fined, arrested, imprisoned, or otherwise found in violaion of the law. It is not a guarantee that you can’t be fired, or denied a platform for your speech

Okay, so what if all government workers were not allowed to vote? If they are found voting, they lose their job. Would you be okay with that?

Of course not: that is illegal under the Civil Rights Act of 1957.
What law are claiming was violated here?

Not a law but a right. You have the right to vote as you have the right to free speech. What's being suggested here is that you must sacrifice your rights to work for specific agencies or government job. Okay......if a police officer has to sacrifice his right to free speech, why not other rights as well?

Point here is we either have rights or we don't. We have constitutional protections or we don't. We can't say it's okay to take X right away, but not okay to take Y right away.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Not a law but a right. You have the right to vote as you have the right to free speech. What's being suggested here is that you must sacrifice your rights to work for specific agencies or government job. Okay......if a police officer has to sacrifice his right to free speech, why not other rights as well?

Point here is we either have rights or we don't. We have constitutional protections or we don't. We can't say it's okay to take X right away, but not okay to take Y right away.

You are contradicting yourself. You said it was ok for those rights to be taken away while they are at work, now you are saying they can never be taken away.

So, which is it?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

My employer doesn't have the right to tell me what I can or cannot do on my free time, especially when it comes to exercising my constitutional rights.

Of course they do. Almost every employer has a code of conduct and things they will fire you over even if it happens off company time.

Let me ask you this, if your company did a drug test on you and found weed in your system that you smoked on your own time, what would they do about it?

There is no right to smoke weed. But I would like to see somebody who did get nailed for that challenge it in court. In our case, we are forced to have drug screenings by law. My employer could care less if we smoked grass or not, just as long as we can do our jobs safely.

What happens is if you get busted with pot in your system, you have to go to a stupid class and they suspend your medical card until that class is complete. Then they let you go back to work. I don't know what the second offense is because a couple of our drivers only got busted once. One driver got busted twice, but he refused to go to the clinic the second time knowing he would fail, so he just gave my employer his resignation.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

My employer doesn't have the right to tell me what I can or cannot do on my free time, especially when it comes to exercising my constitutional rights.

Of course they do. Almost every employer has a code of conduct and things they will fire you over even if it happens off company time.

Let me ask you this, if your company did a drug test on you and found weed in your system that you smoked on your own time, what would they do about it?

There is no right to smoke weed. But I would like to see somebody who did get nailed for that challenge it in court. In our case, we are forced to have drug screenings by law. My employer could care less if we smoked grass or not, just as long as we can do our jobs safely.

What happens is if you get busted with pot in your system, you have to go to a stupid class and they suspend your medical card until that class is complete. Then they let you go back to work. I don't know what the second offense is because a couple of our drivers only got busted once. One driver got busted twice, but he refused to go to the clinic the second time knowing he would fail, so he just gave my employer his resignation.

So, your employer is controlling what you do off duty, and you can be punished for what happens off duty...correct?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not a law but a right. You have the right to vote as you have the right to free speech. What's being suggested here is that you must sacrifice your rights to work for specific agencies or government job. Okay......if a police officer has to sacrifice his right to free speech, why not other rights as well?

Point here is we either have rights or we don't. We have constitutional protections or we don't. We can't say it's okay to take X right away, but not okay to take Y right away.

You are contradicting yourself. You said it was ok for those rights to be taken away while they are at work, now you are saying they can never be taken away.

So, which is it?

Not at all. What I said is that you are not entitled to exercise those rights while at work. But that's different than saying you can't exercise them at all. Outside of work, you still have all the constitutional protections you always had. So if you want to exercise your rights, do it after or before work, not during work.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Not at all. What I said is that you are not entitled to exercise those rights while at work. But that's different than saying you can't exercise them at all. Outside of work, you still have all the constitutional protections you always had. So if you want to exercise your rights, do it after or before work, not during work.

Nobody is saying they cannot exercise them at all, they are saying you cannot exercise them while an employee of said department. Once you are no longer an employee you are no longer subject to the agreement you made.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

My employer doesn't have the right to tell me what I can or cannot do on my free time, especially when it comes to exercising my constitutional rights.

Of course they do. Almost every employer has a code of conduct and things they will fire you over even if it happens off company time.

Let me ask you this, if your company did a drug test on you and found weed in your system that you smoked on your own time, what would they do about it?

There is no right to smoke weed. But I would like to see somebody who did get nailed for that challenge it in court. In our case, we are forced to have drug screenings by law. My employer could care less if we smoked grass or not, just as long as we can do our jobs safely.

What happens is if you get busted with pot in your system, you have to go to a stupid class and they suspend your medical card until that class is complete. Then they let you go back to work. I don't know what the second offense is because a couple of our drivers only got busted once. One driver got busted twice, but he refused to go to the clinic the second time knowing he would fail, so he just gave my employer his resignation.

So, your employer is controlling what you do off duty, and you can be punished for what happens off duty...correct?

Again, it's not my employer, it's the government. The federal government mandates drug testing, not my employer.

Pot stays in your system for two to three weeks, so technically, you are at work with an illegal substance in your system even if you used that drug while off duty.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not at all. What I said is that you are not entitled to exercise those rights while at work. But that's different than saying you can't exercise them at all. Outside of work, you still have all the constitutional protections you always had. So if you want to exercise your rights, do it after or before work, not during work.

Nobody is saying they cannot exercise them at all, they are saying you cannot exercise them while an employee of said department. Once you are no longer an employee you are no longer subject to the agreement you made.

Then what you are saying is because a person holds a position in government, he or she must sacrifice their rights to have that position. Again, if that's the case, what happens if Trump says no government employee can vote; it's part of the job? Or if a Democrat gets in and says no government employee can possess a firearm or CCW license because that's just part of the job?

 

[Conservative65]

A police officer eventually lost his job because he said "I'm surprised that nobody offed him yet" in reference to Calypso Louie on Facebook. He never said he'd like to.....or that somebody should.......just the he was surprised nobody hasn't.

He was suspended several months ago and now our local Fox affiliate claims he was recently fired for the comment. So that begs the questions: if this officer made a similar comment about a white radical, would he still be on the job today? Does this officer have a case for a Fourth Amendment violation lawsuit?

Nope.

We are all held accountable for what we say on social media under our own names... It's why we all use aliases here.

Isn't a first amendment issue.

That's not why you use one, coward.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Again, it's not my employer, it's the government. The federal government mandates drug testing, not my employer.

Pot stays in your system for two to three weeks, so technically, you are at work with an illegal substance in your system even if you used that drug while off duty.

It is the employer following the rules set forth, thus it is still the employer.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Then what you are saying is because a person holds a position in government, he or she must sacrifice their rights to have that position. Again, if that's the case, what happens if Trump says no government employee can vote; it's part of the job? Or if a Democrat gets in and says no government employee can possess a firearm or CCW license because that's just part of the job?

They do not have to sacrifice their rights to have that position, they freely agree to sacrifice their rights while they have that position.

It is a known part of the employment agreement.

As for your examples, I do not think they would stand up in court, but if they did then the government employees would have to decided what they wanted to do.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then what you are saying is because a person holds a position in government, he or she must sacrifice their rights to have that position. Again, if that's the case, what happens if Trump says no government employee can vote; it's part of the job? Or if a Democrat gets in and says no government employee can possess a firearm or CCW license because that's just part of the job?

They do not have to sacrifice their rights to have that position, they freely agree to sacrifice their rights while they have that position.

It is a known part of the employment agreement.

As for your examples, I do not think they would stand up in court, but if they did then the government employees would have to decided what they wanted to do.

So in other words, an employer or government can remove your rights simply by putting it in a contract? If so, then it should apply to all rights, and not just freedom of speech.

 

[rightwinger]

My employer doesn't have the right to tell me what I can or cannot do on my free time, especially when it comes to exercising my constitutional rights.

Of course they do. Almost every employer has a code of conduct and things they will fire you over even if it happens off company time.

Let me ask you this, if your company did a drug test on you and found weed in your system that you smoked on your own time, what would they do about it?

Employers have a standard

You do not embarrass your employer
If you are a child molester on your own time
You get fired

 

[Wry Catcher]

Police officers are held to higher standard by their employment contract which have been found to be immune to most 1st amendment challenges.

So where does it say in the Constitution that not all citizens have it's protections? The left claims that illegals have constitutional rights even though they don't live here, but a person born in this country doesn't just because he took a job as a police officer?

The fact is he showed a bias, and the hiring authority believes that is intolerable in a government official. From a governor who put on black face to a police officer who expresses bigotry, they are all accountable to the court of public opinion.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Then what you are saying is because a person holds a position in government, he or she must sacrifice their rights to have that position. Again, if that's the case, what happens if Trump says no government employee can vote; it's part of the job? Or if a Democrat gets in and says no government employee can possess a firearm or CCW license because that's just part of the job?

They do not have to sacrifice their rights to have that position, they freely agree to sacrifice their rights while they have that position.

It is a known part of the employment agreement.

As for your examples, I do not think they would stand up in court, but if they did then the government employees would have to decided what they wanted to do.

So in other words, an employer or government can remove your rights simply by putting it in a contract? If so, then it should apply to all rights, and not just freedom of speech.

They are not removing your rights, you are freely setting them aside in exchange for a paycheck.

At my job, if I put something on FB that shed my employer in a bad light I would get fired, and I am ok with that. I also think that government employees should have the same threat, they should not be given special protections.

As for other "rights", if they felt that interfered with their business, they probably would. I am not allowed to bring a firearm on the property of my employer, including in my car. It is a setting aside of my rights I have agreed to as part of my employment.