Free Money

[HereWeGoAgain]

Justin Haskins: Democrat Rashida Tlaib proposes disastrous cash giveaway -- guess who’s going to pay for it? | Fox News

This is a huge problem. We need to provide incentives for people to work and not to game the system and receive free monies. Regardless of party affiliation we need to just be smart and understand basic economics.

You might trying hearing it from her lips.
Rep. Tlaib unveils bold new policy for America's poor

Funny we always hear that the current President is spending too much. Yet it is crazies that want to increase welfare spending that so many want to stand behind without a thought to how it increases the debt.
People are always crying about Social Security and Medicare which are paid into but never complain about welfare and Medicaid which are never paid into.

Can you really not tell the difference between helping poor people survive and padding weathly people's pockets?

There is the problem. It’s not just poor and wealthy. There is a middle class and your post is case in point. The Democrats don’t care about the middle class

Republicans pretty much destroyed the middle.class.

I've been a Republican my entire life and went from dirt poor to retiring at 46.
Yeah...they certainly fucked me over.

 

[Beyond]

Can you really not tell the difference between helping poor people survive and padding weathly people's pockets?

There is the problem. It’s not just poor and wealthy. There is a middle class and your post is case in point. The Democrats don’t care about the middle class

Republicans pretty much destroyed the middle.class.

Perhaps but I don’t see how Democrats are helping by calling me privileged for being white and saying that making $250k a year means I should pay more in taxes. At least the GOP lowered taxes

If you are earning $250 a year your are indeed privileged. You are getting more out of the system that most, so it seems fair that you should put more into the system than most. Nothing wrong with having such a privilege and any tax paid shouldn't be redicuously high, but if you're getting more out of the system than others why is it wrong that you pay more into the system than them?

Explain "more out of the system"? I also lease two cars, so I am helping the manufacturers, dealers, etc. I pay RE tax. I pay excise tax. I have to pay for my kids education. That $250k and actually it is closer to $280k doesn't carry as much weight as you may think. To tax me at 40% is insanity? How am I priveleged? I didn't just stumble on these earnings, I had to fight and claw to attain them.

Privilege isn't a dirty word, it's what we all "fight and claw for". All I'm saying is for those who attain it, it makes sense that we pay back more into the system as we are getting more out of it, given it it serving us well. Incidently I'm in a higher tax bracket, I don't expect those on minimum wage to pay the same amount of tax I pay. In my book, any and all tax decreases should go to increasing the tax free levels, not lowering tax for higher earners. It's crazy that people who can't afford to cove their basic living expenses are handing over money to the govenment, while others are earning far more than they can spend in their lifetimes.

I've no truck with you getting $250k no truck if you get more, but it's not an insult to recognise you're in a privileged position.

 

[Beyond]

Can you really not tell the difference between helping poor people survive and padding weathly people's pockets?

There is the problem. It’s not just poor and wealthy. There is a middle class and your post is case in point. The Democrats don’t care about the middle class

Republicans pretty much destroyed the middle.class.

Perhaps but I don’t see how Democrats are helping by calling me privileged for being white and saying that making $250k a year means I should pay more in taxes. At least the GOP lowered taxes

If you are earning $250 a year your are indeed privileged. You are getting more out of the system that most, so it seems fair that you should put more into the system than most. Nothing wrong with having such a privilege and any tax paid shouldn't be redicuously high, but if you're getting more out of the system than others why is it wrong that you pay more into the system than them?

This is the failed logic of the left: If one has too much, that's the reason others have too little.

There is no system to get anything out of. Every single American has the opportunity to invest. If you want to live your life working until you die or retire, have four kids, have the newest iPhone, the newest car, the biggest internet/ cable combination, four video game systems, unlimited data/ cell phone service for your entire family's smart phones, then of course you didn't even look at investing.

But while you were doing all that, other people were giving the best part of their lives to get an advanced education. Others invested their money in their own business. Most made investments in one of the several markets we have.

When you live life like the latter, you have to make a hell of a lot of sacrifices. You may have to give up vacations, work seven days a week, drive a very economic vehicle, don't turn your thermostat past 60 in the winter and under 70 in the summer, do with the minimum technology you need, don't get married or have children, live well below your means even if that house is way too small or not in the best of neighborhoods.

All investments come with risks; risks not seen by simply having a job. Yet if you do all those things and eventually live well, government should come along and take what you sacrificed for to give to those that didn't?

View attachment 264921

Interesting fact: Aproximately 5% of humans move from the economic sphere they are born into. That's true regarding moving into a higher or lower economic sphere.

The biggest indicator of one's eventual financial (or any other) position, is the position one is born into.

What we're taking about here is condeming people for being human, for being in the 95% majority.

There are people who don't earn enough to cover their basic needs. Would you suggest they give up eating for a few weeks in order to invest their grocery money and get a fraction % return on their investment each quarter? When people are in real debt, just covering the basics, they don't have money to invest. I'm referring only to working people, those who don't/can't work aren't even on the investment radar.

 

[Beyond]

And a fortune to

Politicians to rip us off while living in luxury and feathering their nests...

CEOs to to play golf while underpaid workers create the wealth...

Shareholders to do precisely nothing...

Banks create money out of thin air...

But free money is only for the wealthy, the poor must work themselves into an early grave for their scraps.

I'll go with the politicians ripping us off but the rest is total bullshit.
We have a lot of bank stocks accrued over three decades.
They werent given they were earned and paid for,so you're going to deprive the Wife and I those decades of effort?
Screw you!!!
Oh and by the way.....I'm a high school dropout and the Wife doesn't have a college education.
Tired of you MFers claiming the stock market is beyond your reach. Thats total Bullshit!!!

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

When the wealthy get money, it's not government money, it's their own that they created.

If we were neighbors and I went into your house and stole 100 bucks a month when you walked your dog, and felt guilty later on, and decided to only steal 75 bucks a month, did I just give you 25 dollars a month?

There is no such thing as free money; only money somebody else made. When government takes less of the money you made, they aren't giving you a thing. They are just taking less of your property away.

Politicians work for themselves not the people as they are employed to do. They also have ridiculous expenses, the vast majority of that is free money as they don't work for it.

Quantative easing = free money, but it goes to the banks. It's money created out of thin air, numbers on a screen.

Shareholder Dividends = free money, they don't work for it, but those who manage to acquire enough money to buy the priviledge, can get this free money.

Company owners = many (not all) simply don't pay their workers a fair cut of the money they earn. Yes it's fair for company owners to get a fair cut, even fair that they should get more that the workers as they created and maintain the company, but not the massive percentage most choose to take, because without the workers the millions and billions the owners choose to taketake wouldn't exist.

Banks - for every £1000 a bank holds, they can by law lend out £9000 and charge for doing so. That's free money, they are getting paid for the rent of money they don't have. Free money.

Welfare in work - Companies who pay so little that their workers have to be subsidised by the state. That money they don't pay to workers is part of their profits, the company hasn't earned enough money to finance it's payouts so the government makes up the difference. That's free money.

Notice for all the above, the free money goes to those who can afford to buy into the free money club, while everyone else is trained to believe that "free money" is somehow wrong.

99% of people think free money is somehow wrong, the other 1% are mainly wealthy.

You are delusional.

When you risk your money, it is earned money. There is no such thing as free money. Just because you didn't earn it with a shovel or putting french fries in a hopper doesn't mean it's not earned.

I'm a working landlord. Besides my paycheck, I rent apartments (that I BOUGHT with my money) to other people. In return for me giving them a place to live, they pay me money to live here.

I haven't been on a vacation in 30 years. I spend all my vacation time getting to projects I couldn't get to while working. While my tenants come home and enjoy a beautiful summer day, I'm out there doing yard work or attending to a broken sink. In the winter time when my tenants simply leave their warm car and go into their warm apartment, I had to snowplow the drive and parking lot for them to get in or out. If we get a heavy snow overnight, I have to wake up at 4:00 am to do the drive while my tenants remain in their warm bed.

Hopefully in the end, I'll have a nice retirement to supplement my SS and 401K. Should government take that money from me because I took a huge risk and worked my ass off all of my life so I can have a comfortable retirement?

Do you have any logic arguments to refute my claims or just insult?

Why are you so afraid about admiting the truth of the way our society functions? You seem determined to take everything I say as a personal attack on you, despite the fact I know/knew nothing of your circumstances.

 

[Beyond]

And a fortune to

Politicians to rip us off while living in luxury and feathering their nests...

CEOs to to play golf while underpaid workers create the wealth...

Shareholders to do precisely nothing...

Banks create money out of thin air...

But free money is only for the wealthy, the poor must work themselves into an early grave for their scraps.

I'll go with the politicians ripping us off but the rest is total bullshit.
We have a lot of bank stocks accrued over three decades.
They werent given they were earned and paid for,so you're going to deprive the Wife and I those decades of effort?
Screw you!!!
Oh and by the way.....I'm a high school dropout and the Wife doesn't have a college education.
Tired of you MFers claiming the stock market is beyond your reach. Thats total Bullshit!!!

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

I earn dividends!!!
Thats no different from making money off stock sales.

Very true if you don't work for the company (or didn't work in the past to build the company) If you get dividends by virtue of simply buying shares, that isn't "earned", it's free money, because those shares can be resold to return their orginial value to you. (yes I know the value can go up or down)

However, don't misunderstand my point. My point is the same people who condem those who need welfare for wanting "free money" are usually the very same people who support a system where the wealthy can and do obtain billions of £/$ of "free money". Why?

I'd say the same ofthe 80% of self acclaimed "capitalists" who scrape by on the promise that if they only support capitalism, they will one day be wealthy. Most die without that ever happening.

 

[Papageorgio]

Just another bunch of bullshit brought to you by an idiot.

She wants we tax payers to pay people for doing absolutely nothing?

Oh wait. We already do that. Its called welfare and medicade. We pay freeloaders every month to sit on their asses and do nothing.

Her bill won't make it through the senate and you can bet it won't make it through the house either.

Woman is a moron.

We pay farmers not to plant crops on some of their land...is this any different?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

That nonsense should stop as well.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

There is the problem. It’s not just poor and wealthy. There is a middle class and your post is case in point. The Democrats don’t care about the middle class

Republicans pretty much destroyed the middle.class.

Perhaps but I don’t see how Democrats are helping by calling me privileged for being white and saying that making $250k a year means I should pay more in taxes. At least the GOP lowered taxes

If you are earning $250 a year your are indeed privileged. You are getting more out of the system that most, so it seems fair that you should put more into the system than most. Nothing wrong with having such a privilege and any tax paid shouldn't be redicuously high, but if you're getting more out of the system than others why is it wrong that you pay more into the system than them?

Explain "more out of the system"? I also lease two cars, so I am helping the manufacturers, dealers, etc. I pay RE tax. I pay excise tax. I have to pay for my kids education. That $250k and actually it is closer to $280k doesn't carry as much weight as you may think. To tax me at 40% is insanity? How am I priveleged? I didn't just stumble on these earnings, I had to fight and claw to attain them.

Privilege isn't a dirty word, it's what we all "fight and claw for". All I'm saying is for those who attain it, it makes sense that we pay back more into the system as we are getting more out of it, given it it serving us well. Incidently I'm in a higher tax bracket, I don't expect those on minimum wage to pay the same amount of tax I pay. In my book, any and all tax decreases should go to increasing the tax free levels, not lowering tax for higher earners. It's crazy that people who can't afford to cove their basic living expenses are handing over money to the govenment, while others are earning far more than they can spend in their lifetimes.

I've no truck with you getting $250k no truck if you get more, but it's not an insult to recognise you're in a privileged position.

Not in absolute dollars but why can they not pay a similar %? And I disagree that I am "privileged".

 

[Papageorgio]

This program was put into place in Finland two years ago on a temp basis and ended the program this year.

I doubt it would work here.

 

[Papageorgio]

We pay farmers not to plant crops on some of their land...is this any different?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

And a fortune to

Politicians to rip us off while living in luxury and feathering their nests...

CEOs to to play golf while underpaid workers create the wealth...

Shareholders to do precisely nothing...

Banks create money out of thin air...

But free money is only for the wealthy, the poor must work themselves into an early grave for their scraps.

I'll go with the politicians ripping us off but the rest is total bullshit.
We have a lot of bank stocks accrued over three decades.
They werent given they were earned and paid for,so you're going to deprive the Wife and I those decades of effort?
Screw you!!!
Oh and by the way.....I'm a high school dropout and the Wife doesn't have a college education.
Tired of you MFers claiming the stock market is beyond your reach. Thats total Bullshit!!!

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

When the wealthy get money, it's not government money, it's their own that they created.

If we were neighbors and I went into your house and stole 100 bucks a month when you walked your dog, and felt guilty later on, and decided to only steal 75 bucks a month, did I just give you 25 dollars a month?

There is no such thing as free money; only money somebody else made. When government takes less of the money you made, they aren't giving you a thing. They are just taking less of your property away.

The wealthy don't create all the money they earn, they tend to create only a tiny fraction of it, through having companies where "employees" create that wealth for them or buying shares in a company where the employees of that company create the wealth.

Companies don't employ people out of charity, they do so in order to have someone create wealth for them. When employers take the lions share of the wealth a person creates, that's theft. That the wealthy have created unjust laws to allow them to steal the wealth created by their employees, that's legalised theft.

"In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker’s salary."

CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours over the year

That's legalised theft.

How did the wealthy created unjust laws? Oh, wait it is the politicians in Congress that created the unjust laws and businesses that follow the laws are evil?

You realize that the Democratic Party has held the Senate 30 of the last 44 sessions and the held the House 46 out of the last 58 sessions. So it looks like the Democratic Congressmen have screwed America over.

"Legalized theft? LOL!!! That is plain funny, where did you get that phrase?

 

[SAYIT]

And a fortune to

Politicians to rip us off while living in luxury and feathering their nests...

CEOs to to play golf while underpaid workers create the wealth...

Shareholders to do precisely nothing...

Banks create money out of thin air...

But free money is only for the wealthy, the poor must work themselves into an early grave for their scraps.

I'll go with the politicians ripping us off but the rest is total bullshit.
We have a lot of bank stocks accrued over three decades.
They werent given they were earned and paid for,so you're going to deprive the Wife and I those decades of effort?
Screw you!!!
Oh and by the way.....I'm a high school dropout and the Wife doesn't have a college education.
Tired of you MFers claiming the stock market is beyond your reach. Thats total Bullshit!!!

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

When the wealthy get money, it's not government money, it's their own that they created.

If we were neighbors and I went into your house and stole 100 bucks a month when you walked your dog, and felt guilty later on, and decided to only steal 75 bucks a month, did I just give you 25 dollars a month?

There is no such thing as free money; only money somebody else made. When government takes less of the money you made, they aren't giving you a thing. They are just taking less of your property away.

The wealthy don't create all the money they earn, they tend to create only a tiny fraction of it, through having companies where "employees" create that wealth for them or buying shares in a company where the employees of that company create the wealth.

Companies don't employ people out of charity, they do so in order to have someone create wealth for them. When employers take the lions share of the wealth a person creates, that's theft. That the wealthy have created unjust laws to allow them to steal the wealth created by their employees, that's legalised theft.

"In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker’s salary."

CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours over the year

That's legalised theft.

How did the wealthy created unjust laws? Oh, wait it is the politicians in Congress that created the unjust laws and businesses that follow the laws are evil?

You realize that the Democratic Party has held the Senate 30 of the last 44 sessions and the held the House 46 out of the last 58 sessions. So it looks like the Democratic Congressmen have screwed America over.

"Legalized theft? LOL!!! That is plain funny, where did you get that phrase?

From Venezuela.

 

[Beyond]

And a fortune to

Politicians to rip us off while living in luxury and feathering their nests...

CEOs to to play golf while underpaid workers create the wealth...

Shareholders to do precisely nothing...

Banks create money out of thin air...

But free money is only for the wealthy, the poor must work themselves into an early grave for their scraps.

I'll go with the politicians ripping us off but the rest is total bullshit.
We have a lot of bank stocks accrued over three decades.
They werent given they were earned and paid for,so you're going to deprive the Wife and I those decades of effort?
Screw you!!!
Oh and by the way.....I'm a high school dropout and the Wife doesn't have a college education.
Tired of you MFers claiming the stock market is beyond your reach. Thats total Bullshit!!!

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

When the wealthy get money, it's not government money, it's their own that they created.

If we were neighbors and I went into your house and stole 100 bucks a month when you walked your dog, and felt guilty later on, and decided to only steal 75 bucks a month, did I just give you 25 dollars a month?

There is no such thing as free money; only money somebody else made. When government takes less of the money you made, they aren't giving you a thing. They are just taking less of your property away.

The wealthy don't create all the money they earn, they tend to create only a tiny fraction of it, through having companies where "employees" create that wealth for them or buying shares in a company where the employees of that company create the wealth.

Companies don't employ people out of charity, they do so in order to have someone create wealth for them. When employers take the lions share of the wealth a person creates, that's theft. That the wealthy have created unjust laws to allow them to steal the wealth created by their employees, that's legalised theft.

"In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker’s salary."

CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours over the year

That's legalised theft.

That is so convoluted I don't know where to begin.

Employees do not create wealth. They create a paycheck. Only the employer can create wealth.

Lets say you wanted to get into the stock market. You hire a firm and get a broker. Your broker takes a percentage of what stocks you buy--not how much those stocks make. He or she does all the work. All you did was provide the money.

You hit the jackpot. Because of your research and hunches, you make a million dollars on that stock. Should your broker be entitled to 30% of your fortune? Of course not. Why? Because the broker made an agreement with you to earn X amount of money on the amount of stock you purchased, and that's it. You owe him nothing more. But wait! He did all the work! It doesn't matter.

Until employers start kidnapping people to work at their facilities, you don't have a point here. YOU freely agreed to do X job. You agreed to do that job for X amount of money and/or benefits. You did your part by providing the labor, and your employer did his part by paying you for that labor. You are not entitled to anything more unless you got a job that offered profit sharing as a benefit.

If you think employees should get paid based on the profit of the company, would it not be fair that you work for much less when the company is not doing so good? For instance, let's say you are a drill press operator. You make $20.00 per hour because your company is doing good. If the company loses their largest customer, would you be willing to do that same job for $3.00 an hour?

Ok, it that's too convoluted, let's take those points one at a time.

Why do you think companies employ people?

Do you think they do it out of charity or because they need those employees to make a profit?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'll go with the politicians ripping us off but the rest is total bullshit.
We have a lot of bank stocks accrued over three decades.
They werent given they were earned and paid for,so you're going to deprive the Wife and I those decades of effort?
Screw you!!!
Oh and by the way.....I'm a high school dropout and the Wife doesn't have a college education.
Tired of you MFers claiming the stock market is beyond your reach. Thats total Bullshit!!!

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

When the wealthy get money, it's not government money, it's their own that they created.

If we were neighbors and I went into your house and stole 100 bucks a month when you walked your dog, and felt guilty later on, and decided to only steal 75 bucks a month, did I just give you 25 dollars a month?

There is no such thing as free money; only money somebody else made. When government takes less of the money you made, they aren't giving you a thing. They are just taking less of your property away.

The wealthy don't create all the money they earn, they tend to create only a tiny fraction of it, through having companies where "employees" create that wealth for them or buying shares in a company where the employees of that company create the wealth.

Companies don't employ people out of charity, they do so in order to have someone create wealth for them. When employers take the lions share of the wealth a person creates, that's theft. That the wealthy have created unjust laws to allow them to steal the wealth created by their employees, that's legalised theft.

"In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker’s salary."

CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours over the year

That's legalised theft.

That is so convoluted I don't know where to begin.

Employees do not create wealth. They create a paycheck. Only the employer can create wealth.

Lets say you wanted to get into the stock market. You hire a firm and get a broker. Your broker takes a percentage of what stocks you buy--not how much those stocks make. He or she does all the work. All you did was provide the money.

You hit the jackpot. Because of your research and hunches, you make a million dollars on that stock. Should your broker be entitled to 30% of your fortune? Of course not. Why? Because the broker made an agreement with you to earn X amount of money on the amount of stock you purchased, and that's it. You owe him nothing more. But wait! He did all the work! It doesn't matter.

Until employers start kidnapping people to work at their facilities, you don't have a point here. YOU freely agreed to do X job. You agreed to do that job for X amount of money and/or benefits. You did your part by providing the labor, and your employer did his part by paying you for that labor. You are not entitled to anything more unless you got a job that offered profit sharing as a benefit.

If you think employees should get paid based on the profit of the company, would it not be fair that you work for much less when the company is not doing so good? For instance, let's say you are a drill press operator. You make $20.00 per hour because your company is doing good. If the company loses their largest customer, would you be willing to do that same job for $3.00 an hour?

Ok, it that's too convoluted, let's take those points one at a time.

Why do you think companies employ people?

Do you think they do it out of charity or because they need those employees to make a profit?

They employ people to make a profit., just like you employ your stock broker to buy stocks that make you a profit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'd say the same ofthe 80% of self acclaimed "capitalists" who scrape by on the promise that if they only support capitalism, they will one day be wealthy. Most die without that ever happening.

Most die never trying to do it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'll go with the politicians ripping us off but the rest is total bullshit.
We have a lot of bank stocks accrued over three decades.
They werent given they were earned and paid for,so you're going to deprive the Wife and I those decades of effort?
Screw you!!!
Oh and by the way.....I'm a high school dropout and the Wife doesn't have a college education.
Tired of you MFers claiming the stock market is beyond your reach. Thats total Bullshit!!!

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

When the wealthy get money, it's not government money, it's their own that they created.

If we were neighbors and I went into your house and stole 100 bucks a month when you walked your dog, and felt guilty later on, and decided to only steal 75 bucks a month, did I just give you 25 dollars a month?

There is no such thing as free money; only money somebody else made. When government takes less of the money you made, they aren't giving you a thing. They are just taking less of your property away.

Politicians work for themselves not the people as they are employed to do. They also have ridiculous expenses, the vast majority of that is free money as they don't work for it.

Quantative easing = free money, but it goes to the banks. It's money created out of thin air, numbers on a screen.

Shareholder Dividends = free money, they don't work for it, but those who manage to acquire enough money to buy the priviledge, can get this free money.

Company owners = many (not all) simply don't pay their workers a fair cut of the money they earn. Yes it's fair for company owners to get a fair cut, even fair that they should get more that the workers as they created and maintain the company, but not the massive percentage most choose to take, because without the workers the millions and billions the owners choose to taketake wouldn't exist.

Banks - for every £1000 a bank holds, they can by law lend out £9000 and charge for doing so. That's free money, they are getting paid for the rent of money they don't have. Free money.

Welfare in work - Companies who pay so little that their workers have to be subsidised by the state. That money they don't pay to workers is part of their profits, the company hasn't earned enough money to finance it's payouts so the government makes up the difference. That's free money.

Notice for all the above, the free money goes to those who can afford to buy into the free money club, while everyone else is trained to believe that "free money" is somehow wrong.

99% of people think free money is somehow wrong, the other 1% are mainly wealthy.

You are delusional.

When you risk your money, it is earned money. There is no such thing as free money. Just because you didn't earn it with a shovel or putting french fries in a hopper doesn't mean it's not earned.

I'm a working landlord. Besides my paycheck, I rent apartments (that I BOUGHT with my money) to other people. In return for me giving them a place to live, they pay me money to live here.

I haven't been on a vacation in 30 years. I spend all my vacation time getting to projects I couldn't get to while working. While my tenants come home and enjoy a beautiful summer day, I'm out there doing yard work or attending to a broken sink. In the winter time when my tenants simply leave their warm car and go into their warm apartment, I had to snowplow the drive and parking lot for them to get in or out. If we get a heavy snow overnight, I have to wake up at 4:00 am to do the drive while my tenants remain in their warm bed.

Hopefully in the end, I'll have a nice retirement to supplement my SS and 401K. Should government take that money from me because I took a huge risk and worked my ass off all of my life so I can have a comfortable retirement?

Do you have any logic arguments to refute my claims or just insult?

Why are you so afraid about admiting the truth of the way our society functions? You seem determined to take everything I say as a personal attack on you, despite the fact I know/knew nothing of your circumstances.

I'm sure you knew nothing about my circumstance. That's why I explained it to you. And I never insulted you.

The way our society is supposed to function is based on a reward system. Those who accomplish more are rewarded more. However there is a Democrat system too. Reward failure and penalize success.

When you do things the conservative way, you create more givers than takers. With the Democrat way, more takers than givers.

Extrapolate the Democrat system to grade schools. For the kids that study hard and ace their tests, teachers give them a C+. For kids that don't study and barely pass their tests, the teachers give them an A. After a short while, what you'd end up with is more kids not trying than those that do.

The Democrat way simply doesn't work.

 

[Beyond]

Republicans pretty much destroyed the middle.class.

Perhaps but I don’t see how Democrats are helping by calling me privileged for being white and saying that making $250k a year means I should pay more in taxes. At least the GOP lowered taxes

If you are earning $250 a year your are indeed privileged. You are getting more out of the system that most, so it seems fair that you should put more into the system than most. Nothing wrong with having such a privilege and any tax paid shouldn't be redicuously high, but if you're getting more out of the system than others why is it wrong that you pay more into the system than them?

Explain "more out of the system"? I also lease two cars, so I am helping the manufacturers, dealers, etc. I pay RE tax. I pay excise tax. I have to pay for my kids education. That $250k and actually it is closer to $280k doesn't carry as much weight as you may think. To tax me at 40% is insanity? How am I priveleged? I didn't just stumble on these earnings, I had to fight and claw to attain them.

Privilege isn't a dirty word, it's what we all "fight and claw for". All I'm saying is for those who attain it, it makes sense that we pay back more into the system as we are getting more out of it, given it it serving us well. Incidently I'm in a higher tax bracket, I don't expect those on minimum wage to pay the same amount of tax I pay. In my book, any and all tax decreases should go to increasing the tax free levels, not lowering tax for higher earners. It's crazy that people who can't afford to cove their basic living expenses are handing over money to the govenment, while others are earning far more than they can spend in their lifetimes.

I've no truck with you getting $250k no truck if you get more, but it's not an insult to recognise you're in a privileged position.

Not in absolute dollars but why can they not pay a similar %? And I disagree that I am "privileged".

Incidently, to be in the top 5% earners you need to earn around $300k, to be in the top 10% you need to earn around $195k. That puts you approximately in the top 7% earners. I'd say that's technically being within the group of the privileged.

Last I cheked I was in the top 5%. Personally I think that puts me in a privileged position that I very much appreciate. That appreciation includes being happy to pay tax, provided it helps to buffer ths dificulties faced by those who are less privileged, becaue they're the reason WE'RE not walking around knee deep in trash, the reason I can go out to enjoy a meal and be waited on, the reason I can go into a shop and have somone facilitate my purchases, the reason I don't have to take my own rubbish to the dump, the reason I work in a clean office, on the days when I work on site, the reason I can have somone else take care of my laundry and on and on. MY life would be less comfortable without them, they shouldnt have to scrape a living to facilitate MY comfort.

 

[Beyond]

Republicans pretty much destroyed the middle.class.

Perhaps but I don’t see how Democrats are helping by calling me privileged for being white and saying that making $250k a year means I should pay more in taxes. At least the GOP lowered taxes

If you are earning $250 a year your are indeed privileged. You are getting more out of the system that most, so it seems fair that you should put more into the system than most. Nothing wrong with having such a privilege and any tax paid shouldn't be redicuously high, but if you're getting more out of the system than others why is it wrong that you pay more into the system than them?

Explain "more out of the system"? I also lease two cars, so I am helping the manufacturers, dealers, etc. I pay RE tax. I pay excise tax. I have to pay for my kids education. That $250k and actually it is closer to $280k doesn't carry as much weight as you may think. To tax me at 40% is insanity? How am I priveleged? I didn't just stumble on these earnings, I had to fight and claw to attain them.

Privilege isn't a dirty word, it's what we all "fight and claw for". All I'm saying is for those who attain it, it makes sense that we pay back more into the system as we are getting more out of it, given it it serving us well. Incidently I'm in a higher tax bracket, I don't expect those on minimum wage to pay the same amount of tax I pay. In my book, any and all tax decreases should go to increasing the tax free levels, not lowering tax for higher earners. It's crazy that people who can't afford to cove their basic living expenses are handing over money to the govenment, while others are earning far more than they can spend in their lifetimes.

I've no truck with you getting $250k no truck if you get more, but it's not an insult to recognise you're in a privileged position.

Not in absolute dollars but why can they not pay a similar %? And I disagree that I am "privileged".

Why not a similar %? Because they are not getting as much out of the system as those on higher income. The system has not served them as well. Thisisn't about attributing blame, it about looking at facts.

If I was handed a car that worked perfectly, was comfortble to drive, I'd expect to pay more for it than a car that was breaking down every day and leaking oil onto my driveway. The same with paying for a sytem that works better for me than it does for others, regardless of why it works well for me.

It's also absurd for someone who struggles to pay their bills due to a low income, should be handing money over tho the government and then get it back in welfare. (referring to those who can and do work full time jobs.)

Again I've no truck with those doing well, but why pretend they're not doing well, why pretend $250k leave one struggling to pay their way? It doesn't unless they're foolish with their money.

 

[Beyond]

And a fortune to

Politicians to rip us off while living in luxury and feathering their nests...

CEOs to to play golf while underpaid workers create the wealth...

Shareholders to do precisely nothing...

Banks create money out of thin air...

But free money is only for the wealthy, the poor must work themselves into an early grave for their scraps.

I'll go with the politicians ripping us off but the rest is total bullshit.
We have a lot of bank stocks accrued over three decades.
They werent given they were earned and paid for,so you're going to deprive the Wife and I those decades of effort?
Screw you!!!
Oh and by the way.....I'm a high school dropout and the Wife doesn't have a college education.
Tired of you MFers claiming the stock market is beyond your reach. Thats total Bullshit!!!

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

When the wealthy get money, it's not government money, it's their own that they created.

If we were neighbors and I went into your house and stole 100 bucks a month when you walked your dog, and felt guilty later on, and decided to only steal 75 bucks a month, did I just give you 25 dollars a month?

There is no such thing as free money; only money somebody else made. When government takes less of the money you made, they aren't giving you a thing. They are just taking less of your property away.

The wealthy don't create all the money they earn, they tend to create only a tiny fraction of it, through having companies where "employees" create that wealth for them or buying shares in a company where the employees of that company create the wealth.

Companies don't employ people out of charity, they do so in order to have someone create wealth for them. When employers take the lions share of the wealth a person creates, that's theft. That the wealthy have created unjust laws to allow them to steal the wealth created by their employees, that's legalised theft.

"In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker’s salary."

CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours over the year

That's legalised theft.

How did the wealthy created unjust laws? Oh, wait it is the politicians in Congress that created the unjust laws and businesses that follow the laws are evil?

You realize that the Democratic Party has held the Senate 30 of the last 44 sessions and the held the House 46 out of the last 58 sessions. So it looks like the Democratic Congressmen have screwed America over.

"Legalized theft? LOL!!! That is plain funny, where did you get that phrase?

I'm not interested in whic party was in power when.

Do you believe all current laws are just?

 

[Beyond]

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

When the wealthy get money, it's not government money, it's their own that they created.

If we were neighbors and I went into your house and stole 100 bucks a month when you walked your dog, and felt guilty later on, and decided to only steal 75 bucks a month, did I just give you 25 dollars a month?

There is no such thing as free money; only money somebody else made. When government takes less of the money you made, they aren't giving you a thing. They are just taking less of your property away.

The wealthy don't create all the money they earn, they tend to create only a tiny fraction of it, through having companies where "employees" create that wealth for them or buying shares in a company where the employees of that company create the wealth.

Companies don't employ people out of charity, they do so in order to have someone create wealth for them. When employers take the lions share of the wealth a person creates, that's theft. That the wealthy have created unjust laws to allow them to steal the wealth created by their employees, that's legalised theft.

"In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker’s salary."

CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours over the year

That's legalised theft.

That is so convoluted I don't know where to begin.

Employees do not create wealth. They create a paycheck. Only the employer can create wealth.

Lets say you wanted to get into the stock market. You hire a firm and get a broker. Your broker takes a percentage of what stocks you buy--not how much those stocks make. He or she does all the work. All you did was provide the money.

You hit the jackpot. Because of your research and hunches, you make a million dollars on that stock. Should your broker be entitled to 30% of your fortune? Of course not. Why? Because the broker made an agreement with you to earn X amount of money on the amount of stock you purchased, and that's it. You owe him nothing more. But wait! He did all the work! It doesn't matter.

Until employers start kidnapping people to work at their facilities, you don't have a point here. YOU freely agreed to do X job. You agreed to do that job for X amount of money and/or benefits. You did your part by providing the labor, and your employer did his part by paying you for that labor. You are not entitled to anything more unless you got a job that offered profit sharing as a benefit.

If you think employees should get paid based on the profit of the company, would it not be fair that you work for much less when the company is not doing so good? For instance, let's say you are a drill press operator. You make $20.00 per hour because your company is doing good. If the company loses their largest customer, would you be willing to do that same job for $3.00 an hour?

Ok, it that's too convoluted, let's take those points one at a time.

Why do you think companies employ people?

Do you think they do it out of charity or because they need those employees to make a profit?

They employ people to make a profit., just like you employ your stock broker to buy stocks that make you a profit.

Ok, so you acknowlede they're employed to make a profit. Is wealth not produced by profit?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is the problem. It’s not just poor and wealthy. There is a middle class and your post is case in point. The Democrats don’t care about the middle class

Republicans pretty much destroyed the middle.class.

Perhaps but I don’t see how Democrats are helping by calling me privileged for being white and saying that making $250k a year means I should pay more in taxes. At least the GOP lowered taxes

If you are earning $250 a year your are indeed privileged. You are getting more out of the system that most, so it seems fair that you should put more into the system than most. Nothing wrong with having such a privilege and any tax paid shouldn't be redicuously high, but if you're getting more out of the system than others why is it wrong that you pay more into the system than them?

This is the failed logic of the left: If one has too much, that's the reason others have too little.

There is no system to get anything out of. Every single American has the opportunity to invest. If you want to live your life working until you die or retire, have four kids, have the newest iPhone, the newest car, the biggest internet/ cable combination, four video game systems, unlimited data/ cell phone service for your entire family's smart phones, then of course you didn't even look at investing.

But while you were doing all that, other people were giving the best part of their lives to get an advanced education. Others invested their money in their own business. Most made investments in one of the several markets we have.

When you live life like the latter, you have to make a hell of a lot of sacrifices. You may have to give up vacations, work seven days a week, drive a very economic vehicle, don't turn your thermostat past 60 in the winter and under 70 in the summer, do with the minimum technology you need, don't get married or have children, live well below your means even if that house is way too small or not in the best of neighborhoods.

All investments come with risks; risks not seen by simply having a job. Yet if you do all those things and eventually live well, government should come along and take what you sacrificed for to give to those that didn't?

View attachment 264921

Interesting fact: Aproximately 5% of humans move from the economic sphere they are born into. That's true regarding moving into a higher or lower economic sphere.

The biggest indicator of one's eventual financial (or any other) position, is the position one is born into.

What we're taking about here is condeming people for being human, for being in the 95% majority.

There are people who don't earn enough to cover their basic needs. Would you suggest they give up eating for a few weeks in order to invest their grocery money and get a fraction % return on their investment each quarter? When people are in real debt, just covering the basics, they don't have money to invest. I'm referring only to working people, those who don't/can't work aren't even on the investment radar.

Okay, if you don't earn enough to cover basic needs, is that your fault or the fault of our society?

We live in a society where all are welcome to improve their plight. You can go to school, learn a trade, open your own business, whatever you want. And yes, people on disability would have a much harder time participating.

However most personal failures are because of the individual--not society.

I was making a pickup at a steel place a few months ago. The guy loading me was telling me how they were having a hard time getting people to work there. They start you out at around 17 bucks an hour, but as you learn more about the shop, you can quickly make it to about 20 bucks an hour.

He said HR held group job interviews. They start out with about 20 people who show up. Before the HR person starts the seminar on what they do, he told everybody right from the start that the company does drug screenings. If you can't pass the drug test, you would be wasting your time sticking around for the seminar. He said all but seven walked out.

Out of the seven, only two stayed to put in an application. One worked for about two weeks and quit, the other about a month and a half.

 

[Beyond]

1) I'm curious as to where I claimed the stock market is out of my reach.
2) My comment was about why "free money" is only regarded as ok when it goes to the wealthy.
3) "Earning" stocks by paying for them isn't the same as earning the money paid in dividends. Dividends only show up if the workers create a profit, so it's "free money" to shareholders.
4) I haven't commented on whether or not I regard owning stocks is good or bad, only on the fact only "poor" people are berated for acquiring "free money"

How much do you hate yourself that you conjured up so much hate against you in a post that I didnt put there?

When the wealthy get money, it's not government money, it's their own that they created.

If we were neighbors and I went into your house and stole 100 bucks a month when you walked your dog, and felt guilty later on, and decided to only steal 75 bucks a month, did I just give you 25 dollars a month?

There is no such thing as free money; only money somebody else made. When government takes less of the money you made, they aren't giving you a thing. They are just taking less of your property away.

Politicians work for themselves not the people as they are employed to do. They also have ridiculous expenses, the vast majority of that is free money as they don't work for it.

Quantative easing = free money, but it goes to the banks. It's money created out of thin air, numbers on a screen.

Shareholder Dividends = free money, they don't work for it, but those who manage to acquire enough money to buy the priviledge, can get this free money.

Company owners = many (not all) simply don't pay their workers a fair cut of the money they earn. Yes it's fair for company owners to get a fair cut, even fair that they should get more that the workers as they created and maintain the company, but not the massive percentage most choose to take, because without the workers the millions and billions the owners choose to taketake wouldn't exist.

Banks - for every £1000 a bank holds, they can by law lend out £9000 and charge for doing so. That's free money, they are getting paid for the rent of money they don't have. Free money.

Welfare in work - Companies who pay so little that their workers have to be subsidised by the state. That money they don't pay to workers is part of their profits, the company hasn't earned enough money to finance it's payouts so the government makes up the difference. That's free money.

Notice for all the above, the free money goes to those who can afford to buy into the free money club, while everyone else is trained to believe that "free money" is somehow wrong.

99% of people think free money is somehow wrong, the other 1% are mainly wealthy.

You are delusional.

When you risk your money, it is earned money. There is no such thing as free money. Just because you didn't earn it with a shovel or putting french fries in a hopper doesn't mean it's not earned.

I'm a working landlord. Besides my paycheck, I rent apartments (that I BOUGHT with my money) to other people. In return for me giving them a place to live, they pay me money to live here.

I haven't been on a vacation in 30 years. I spend all my vacation time getting to projects I couldn't get to while working. While my tenants come home and enjoy a beautiful summer day, I'm out there doing yard work or attending to a broken sink. In the winter time when my tenants simply leave their warm car and go into their warm apartment, I had to snowplow the drive and parking lot for them to get in or out. If we get a heavy snow overnight, I have to wake up at 4:00 am to do the drive while my tenants remain in their warm bed.

Hopefully in the end, I'll have a nice retirement to supplement my SS and 401K. Should government take that money from me because I took a huge risk and worked my ass off all of my life so I can have a comfortable retirement?

Do you have any logic arguments to refute my claims or just insult?

Why are you so afraid about admiting the truth of the way our society functions? You seem determined to take everything I say as a personal attack on you, despite the fact I know/knew nothing of your circumstances.

I'm sure you knew nothing about my circumstance. That's why I explained it to you. And I never insulted you.

The way our society is supposed to function is based on a reward system. Those who accomplish more are rewarded more. However there is a Democrat system too. Reward failure and penalize success.

When you do things the conservative way, you create more givers than takers. With the Democrat way, more takers than givers.

Extrapolate the Democrat system to grade schools. For the kids that study hard and ace their tests, teachers give them a C+. For kids that don't study and barely pass their tests, the teachers give them an A. After a short while, what you'd end up with is more kids not trying than those that do.

The Democrat way simply doesn't work.

Given you're roughtly in the top 7% of earners, but do not consider yourself "privileged", would you say the current sytem works?