Free George Zimmerman

[bigrebnc1775]

The police reported that Zimmerman said he was reaching for his phone. If you're a law abiding citizen being followed in the dark and in the rain, first by car and then by foot, for no apparent reason and you see this person reaching for something, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that an individual in that predicament would be within their rights to defend themselves.

What police report? I still looking but haven't found it.

Zimmerman's account to the police was leaked to the Orlando Sentinel...

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Where is the police report? We all know how the media has embellished on what was said and what happened.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Boy oh boy! Jake got ghost like Casper when I raised that question!

Ah, but it is far more than that. GZ placed himself in that situation because of his own moral depravity. That is what prosecution will argue. I don't think it will get a conviction in the 2nd, but it may well result in voluntary manslaughter and several years in the state pen.

 

[WorldWatcher]

********************************************


Previously you said Zimmerman was sitting in his truck.

Again, you provide no independent corroboration that Zimmerman was returning to his truck simply a statement of your own opinion. I say that Zimmerman may have been returning or he may not, we don't know.



1. You have evidence that she has changed what she said to police turing interviews? (Not media reports, actuall access to the interview reports.)

2. You don't know if she tried to call or not. What we know is that the existence of the girlfriends call became public knowledge on 3/20/2012 - that says not preclude her contacting the police that night shortly thereafter after finding out that Martin had been killed.

3. There is independent confirmation that the call took place based on phone records.



Utter balderdash, if (NOTICE **IF**) Zimmerman followed Martin and Zimmerman initiated hostilities then Martin would never have lost his right to self defense.

At this point there is no corroborating evidence that Zimmerman was attempting to return to his truck, there is no corroborating evidence that Martin was attempting to return the the Father's Girlfriend's home and there is no corroborating evidence on who first initiated hostilities (that has been made public).

You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

I'm not "using" anything, I'm attempting to discuss fact's when we have them.

You said "Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband." Exactly yet we have phone records that prove Martin was on the phone while Zimmerman was looking at Martin while talking on the phone.

Then you say "Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine...", sorry Martin make the call, the call was INBOUND from the girlfriend which in known because the PHONE RECORDS record it as in inbound call.



Again this is factually incorrect.

There is Zimmerman's dispatcher call which is recorded and was initiated at 19:11 and the call lasted approximate 4 minutes (we have dispatcher records that prove this and the duration of the audio also). Approximately 60 seconds into the call, Zimmerman makes his waistband comment (we know this by simply listening to the call and looking at the elapsed time). At 19:12 Martin received an INBOUND phone call from the girlfriend, which is the same time as the "waistband" comment (we know this based on phone records and matching the time to the elapsed time of the dispatcher call). If you then continue to listen to the dispatcher call audio, it is a fact that Zimmerman says that Martin is departing the area under AFTER he answered the inbound call from the girlfriend.


>>>>

Previously you said Zimmerman was sitting in his truck.

Again, you provide no independent corroboration that Zimmerman was returning to his truck simply a statement of your own opinion. I say that Zimmerman may have been returning or he may not, we don't know.

You can listen to the police audio and tell basically where Zimmerman was
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQYg]ACTUAL UNCUT AUDIO!!! George Zimmerman's Trayvon Martin 911 - YouTube[/ame]

So try again with your opinion based assertions.

No, you can't tell where Zimmerman was unless you are applying what you call "opinion based assertions.

All that is known (facts) that can be determined from listening to the audio is the following:

• Dispatcher Call Starts approximately 1900 (0 minutes, 0 seconds or 0 from inside his truck,
• Zimmerman says Martin is coming toward the truck at approximately (19:12:00, 01:00),
• Zimmerman says Martin has his hand in his waistband (19:12:05, 01:05) as the same time as phone records show an INBOUND call from the girlfriend at (19:12),
• Zimmerman says he has something in his hand (19:12:26, 01:26), which may be Martin's cell phone (Good for Zimmerman),
• Zimmerman make note that Martin has turned to run (19:13:09, 02:09),
• Zimmerman exists the vehicle, you can hear the truck door opening and closing about 3 seconds later (19:13:11, 02:11),
• You can hear wind noises now as Zimmerman begins following Martin and dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following him (19:13:14, 02:14),
• You can hear Zimmerman acknowledges with "OK" that he heard the dispatcher say he didn't need to follow Martin (19:13:24, 02:24),
• No other position information can be determined from the phone call which ended at approximately 19:15:11, 04:11).

You can tell from the audio that Zimmerman was in his truck (the location of which is known by the police since it wasn't moved), that at 2 minutes 9 seconds Zimmerman says Martin is running, that at 2 minutes 11 seconds into the call Zimmerman exits the truck. Once Zimmerman exists the truck his location is unknown until the event when witnesses place him at the scene.

So, please identify what of the above is "opinion based assertions"?


>>>>

 

[bigrebnc1775]

********************************************


Previously you said Zimmerman was sitting in his truck.

Again, you provide no independent corroboration that Zimmerman was returning to his truck simply a statement of your own opinion. I say that Zimmerman may have been returning or he may not, we don't know.



1. You have evidence that she has changed what she said to police turing interviews? (Not media reports, actuall access to the interview reports.)

2. You don't know if she tried to call or not. What we know is that the existence of the girlfriends call became public knowledge on 3/20/2012 - that says not preclude her contacting the police that night shortly thereafter after finding out that Martin had been killed.

3. There is independent confirmation that the call took place based on phone records.



Utter balderdash, if (NOTICE **IF**) Zimmerman followed Martin and Zimmerman initiated hostilities then Martin would never have lost his right to self defense.

At this point there is no corroborating evidence that Zimmerman was attempting to return to his truck, there is no corroborating evidence that Martin was attempting to return the the Father's Girlfriend's home and there is no corroborating evidence on who first initiated hostilities (that has been made public).



I'm not "using" anything, I'm attempting to discuss fact's when we have them.

You said "Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband." Exactly yet we have phone records that prove Martin was on the phone while Zimmerman was looking at Martin while talking on the phone.

Then you say "Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine...", sorry Martin make the call, the call was INBOUND from the girlfriend which in known because the PHONE RECORDS record it as in inbound call.



Again this is factually incorrect.

There is Zimmerman's dispatcher call which is recorded and was initiated at 19:11 and the call lasted approximate 4 minutes (we have dispatcher records that prove this and the duration of the audio also). Approximately 60 seconds into the call, Zimmerman makes his waistband comment (we know this by simply listening to the call and looking at the elapsed time). At 19:12 Martin received an INBOUND phone call from the girlfriend, which is the same time as the "waistband" comment (we know this based on phone records and matching the time to the elapsed time of the dispatcher call). If you then continue to listen to the dispatcher call audio, it is a fact that Zimmerman says that Martin is departing the area under AFTER he answered the inbound call from the girlfriend.


>>>>

Previously you said Zimmerman was sitting in his truck.

Again, you provide no independent corroboration that Zimmerman was returning to his truck simply a statement of your own opinion. I say that Zimmerman may have been returning or he may not, we don't know.

You can listen to the police audio and tell basically where Zimmerman was
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQYg]ACTUAL UNCUT AUDIO!!! George Zimmerman's Trayvon Martin 911 - YouTube[/ame]

So try again with your opinion based assertions.

No, you can't tell where Zimmerman was unless you are applying what you call "opinion based assertions.

All that is known (facts) that can be determined from listening to the audio is the following:

• Dispatcher Call Starts approximately 1900 (0 minutes, 0 seconds or 0 from inside his truck,
• Zimmerman says Martin is coming toward the truck at approximately (19:12:00, 01:00),
• Zimmerman says Martin has his hand in his waistband (19:12:05, 01:05) as the same time as phone records show an INBOUND call from the girlfriend at (19:12),
• Zimmerman says he has something in his hand (19:12:26, 01:26), which may be Martin's cell phone (Good for Zimmerman),
• Zimmerman make note that Martin has turned to run (19:13:09, 02:09),
• Zimmerman exists the vehicle, you can hear the truck door opening and closing about 3 seconds later (19:13:11, 02:11),
• You can hear wind noises now as Zimmerman begins following Martin and dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following him (19:13:14, 02:14),
• You can hear Zimmerman acknowledges with "OK" that he heard the dispatcher say he didn't need to follow Martin (19:13:24, 02:24),
• No other position information can be determined from the phone call which ended at approximately 19:15:11, 04:11).

So, please identify what of the above is "opinion based assertions"?


>>>>

Dispatcher Call Starts approximately 1900 (0 minutes, 0 seconds or 0 from inside his truck,

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQYg]ACTUAL UNCUT AUDIO!!! George Zimmerman's Trayvon Martin 911 - YouTube[/ame]
Zimmerm,an intitial call started at Retreat view cir. and he turned onto twin tree cut through.
0:15 – The best address I can give you is the clubhouse. [A]
0:45 – He’s just staring at the houses. Now he’s staring at me.
1:00 – He’s coming towards me.
1:20 – He’s coming to check me out.
2:08 – Shit, he’s running.
2:14 – Sound of truck door being closed. [C]
2:20 – He’s heading towards the back entrance. [referring to E]
2:25 – Are you following him? Yep.
2:45 – He ran… Zimmerman stops and completes the 911 call. [E]
4:05 – Call ends.

 

[Faun]

What police report? I still looking but haven't found it.

Zimmerman's account to the police was leaked to the Orlando Sentinel...

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Where is the police report? We all know how the media has embellished on what was said and what happened.

Forget your strawman about a police report, the press put the story out after Zimmerman's account to police was leaked to them.

 

[LockeJaw]

The police reported that Zimmerman said he was reaching for his phone. If you're a law abiding citizen being followed in the dark and in the rain, first by car and then by foot, for no apparent reason and you see this person reaching for something, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that an individual in that predicament would be within their rights to defend themselves.

What police report? I still looking but haven't found it.

Zimmerman's account to the police was leaked to the Orlando Sentinel...

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Okay, I remember reading this now. Still, I don't see how that helps the prosecutor in any way on charging him with 2nd degree murder? Infact, why would he say that other than because he was telling the truth? It can't help Zimmerman to admit that to the cops because it might raise their suspicion that he actually was reaching for his gun and brandished it to Trayvon. If he was this cold blooded and calculated murderer, wouldn't he have left that Info out?

Something to ponder....

I'm not saying you're calling him one by the way. That's what the prosecutor is trying to prove.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Dispatcher Call Starts approximately 1900 (0 minutes, 0 seconds or 0 from inside his truck,

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQYg]ACTUAL UNCUT AUDIO!!! George Zimmerman's Trayvon Martin 911 - YouTube[/ame]
0:15 – The best address I can give you is the clubhouse. [A]
0:45 – He’s just staring at the houses. Now he’s staring at me.
1:00 – He’s coming towards me.
1:20 – He’s coming to check me out.
2:08 – Shit, he’s running.
2:14 – Sound of truck door being closed. [C]
2:20 – He’s heading towards the back entrance. [referring to E]
2:25 – Are you following him? Yep.
2:45 – He ran… Zimmerman stops and completes the 911 call. [E]
4:05 – Call ends.

None of the above information derived from the dispatcher call locates Zimmerman after he exists the truck.

Item "E" is speculation.


>>>>

 

[LockeJaw]

Boy oh boy! Jake got ghost like Casper when I raised that question!

Ah, but it is far more than that. GZ placed himself in that situation because of his own moral depravity. That is what prosecution will argue. I don't think it will get a conviction in the 2nd, but it may well result in voluntary manslaughter and several years in the state pen.

Jake, you're not paying attention. That post of mine you just quoted was in reference to you not explainIng how your avatar mocking and treating this incident like a joke isn't mocking and treating this tragic situation as a joke?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your post was an absurdity and used to illustrate your absurdity.

Why don't you talk about GZ's demonstration of moral depravity in acting like deputy dawg and following a young man going about his lawful business.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Dispatcher Call Starts approximately 1900 (0 minutes, 0 seconds or 0 from inside his truck,

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQYg]ACTUAL UNCUT AUDIO!!! George Zimmerman's Trayvon Martin 911 - YouTube[/ame]
0:15 – The best address I can give you is the clubhouse. [A]
0:45 – He’s just staring at the houses. Now he’s staring at me.
1:00 – He’s coming towards me.
1:20 – He’s coming to check me out.
2:08 – Shit, he’s running.
2:14 – Sound of truck door being closed. [C]
2:20 – He’s heading towards the back entrance. [referring to E]
2:25 – Are you following him? Yep.
2:45 – He ran… Zimmerman stops and completes the 911 call. [E]
4:05 – Call ends.

None of the above information derived from the dispatcher call locates Zimmerman after he exists the truck.

Item "E" is speculation.


>>>>

And so are you speculating, Zimmerman according to the police audio lost Trayvon when he ran which was near the side of the housing complex. Plus that's where Zimmerman told the police he stopped.
Still you haven't explained why Zimmerman would shoot Trayvon knowing the police was coming.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I hear bigrenbnc mumbling inchoately somewhere, probably in the USMB basement.

 

[Faun]

What police report? I still looking but haven't found it.

Zimmerman's account to the police was leaked to the Orlando Sentinel...

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Okay, I remember reading this now. Still, I don't see how that helps the prosecutor in any way on charging him with 2nd degree murder? Infact, why would he say that other than because he was telling the truth? It can't help Zimmerman to admit that to the cops because it might raise their suspicion that he actually was reaching for his gun and brandished it to Trayvon. If he was this cold blooded and calculated murderer, wouldn't he have left that Info out?

Something to ponder....

I'm not saying you're calling him one by the way. That's what the prosecutor is trying to prove.

I'm not questioning Zimmerman's claim of reaching for his phone and I'm not saying he was really reaching for his gun. I'm taking Zimmerman's claim at face value. What I am saying is that Trayvon could not know what Zimmerman was reaching for and that it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to assume Zimmerman was reaching for a weapon given Trayvon was merely heading back to his residence after buying candy from 7-11 when he found a stranger following him for no apparent reason, in the dark, in the rain, first by car and then by foot.

In my opinion, Trayvon was the one acting in self defense, not Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the one who put himself into a precarious situation he shouldn't have and is now crying self defense because he was getting his ass kicked for it.

 

[LockeJaw]

Your post was an absurdity and used to illustrate your absurdity.

Why don't you talk about GZ's demonstration of moral depravity in acting like deputy dawg and following a young man going about his lawful business.

We can talk about that as soon as you explain why you think your avatar isn't a mockery of this case?

 

[The Gadfly]

I mean seriously.

How many people have you heard say "he flashed a gun so I threw myself on top of him and tried to grab it, because I thought that might be the best way to avoid getting shot."

It doesn't happen because it's IDIOTIC.

So it may come down to my big question; how far away from each other were the two when the shot was fired?

That last will be one very important point Peach. There are some others, to which we don't yet have definitive answers. Among these are:

(!) At what point did Zimmerman lose sight of Martin? Was that before of after he got out of the vehicle? (Goes to whether Zimmerman was attempting to pursue Martin to confront him, or simply trying to regain visual contact, to see where Martin was going).

(2) Did Zimmerman actually "corner" Martin? If so, where? (That could not have been where there police found the two at the end of the incident, because that's a relatively open area). Alternatively, did Zimmerman catch up with Martin and confront him? If so, how? (if Martin was proceeding directly toward Brandy Green's apartment, it's hard to imagine how he wouldn't have easily outdistanced the older, shorter, and heavier Zimmerman, given a head start, which he obviously had).

(3) There are a number of paths Martin could have taken from the time he got out of sight of Zimmerman in the vehicle; but which one DID he take? Did he stop, at some point? If so, where?

(4) What exactly happened when Zimmerman and Martin met? Did they meet face-to face, or did one approach the other from behind (either is physically possible)? If one approached the other from behind, who was it? Who said what to who? (here we have two stories, Zimmerman's account, and the account of the phone conversation with Martin by his girl friend; which one is more likely true; neither is a disinterested party)?

(5) Martin's girl friend said she heard a "push" over the phone before the call was dropped. Exactly what does "a push" sound like? (It's a pity we don't have a recording of that phone call, as it would tell us a lot). She DID NOT hear a gunshot, so that obviously happened later-but how much later? (that should be something we can eventually know, from the cell phone record of when the call ended, and the time the 911 caller (witness)reported hearing the shot)

(6)Who initiated Physical contact? It's at least conceivable that Zimmerman could have grabbed Martin (in which case, Martin would be justified in defending himself); it's equally conceivable that Martin simply hit Zimmerman. Which was it? What does the evidence indicate?

The last three points are what the case turns on, from what little we know. Those answers would tell us, who initiated the verbal confrontation, who physically assaulted the other first, and about how long the altercation lasted before the shot was fired. I have yet to see a timeline giving the start and end times of Zimmerman's call to police, Martin's call to his girlfriend, and the 911 call from the witness reporting a gunshot. If anyone has that, please post it; that would help all of us better understand what could have happened. That would help answer the question of whether a self defense situation existed prior to the shot, and which party was defending himself to that point. Still to be determined would be whether or not Martin tried to snatch Zimmerman's gun, whether that occurred while the gun was holstered, or after it was drawn, and whether the weapon discharged as a result of a struggle, or was fired deliberately.

Absent more information, this could be anything from 2nd degree murder, to involuntary manslaughter, to lawful self defense. What incomplete evidence we have at this point mostly points to the last, BUT we don't have all the investigation has revealed, so we can't yet know even what the preponderance of the total evidence suggests, let alone what's provable "beyond a reasonable doubt".

There is still, in any event more we don't know, than what we do know.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I hear bigrenbnc mumbling inchoately somewhere, probably in the USMB basement.

Why don't you go take another vacation Adults are trying to have a discussion.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Zimmerman's account to the police was leaked to the Orlando Sentinel...

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel

Okay, I remember reading this now. Still, I don't see how that helps the prosecutor in any way on charging him with 2nd degree murder? Infact, why would he say that other than because he was telling the truth? It can't help Zimmerman to admit that to the cops because it might raise their suspicion that he actually was reaching for his gun and brandished it to Trayvon. If he was this cold blooded and calculated murderer, wouldn't he have left that Info out?

Something to ponder....

I'm not saying you're calling him one by the way. That's what the prosecutor is trying to prove.

I'm not questioning Zimmerman's claim of reaching for his phone and I'm not saying he was really reaching for his gun. I'm taking Zimmerman's claim at face value. What I am saying is that Trayvon could not know what Zimmerman was reaching for and that it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to assume Zimmerman was reaching for a weapon given Trayvon was merely heading back to his residence after buying candy from 7-11 when he found a stranger following him for no apparent reason, in the dark, in the rain, first by car and then by foot.

In my opinion, Trayvon was the one acting in self defense, not Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the one who put himself into a precarious situation he shouldn't have and is now crying self defense because he was getting his ass kicked for it.

Trayvon was out of his perceived danger area when he fled.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your post was an absurdity and used to illustrate your absurdity.

Why don't you talk about GZ's demonstration of moral depravity in acting like deputy dawg and following a young man going about his lawful business.

We can talk about that as soon as you explain why you think your avatar isn't a mockery of this case?

You aren't in charge of anything, kid. Your defense is mocking GZ.

 

[WorldWatcher]

ACTUAL UNCUT AUDIO!!! George Zimmerman's Trayvon Martin 911 - YouTube
0:15 – The best address I can give you is the clubhouse. [A]
0:45 – He’s just staring at the houses. Now he’s staring at me.
1:00 – He’s coming towards me.
1:20 – He’s coming to check me out.
2:08 – Shit, he’s running.
2:14 – Sound of truck door being closed. [C]
2:20 – He’s heading towards the back entrance. [referring to E]
2:25 – Are you following him? Yep.
2:45 – He ran… Zimmerman stops and completes the 911 call. [E]
4:05 – Call ends.

None of the above information derived from the dispatcher call locates Zimmerman after he exists the truck.

Item "E" is speculation.


>>>>

And so are you speculating, Zimmerman according to the police audio lost Trayvon when he ran which was near the side of the housing complex. Plus that's where Zimmerman told the police he stopped.

You have a link to this police report giving a location for Zimmerman? Or is this from a media report or "leak"?


You realize though that if you want to go with Zimmerman's location as "E" at the end of the dispatcher call and "F" as the site of the event, then Zimmerman would have departed point "E" travelling back toward his truck and then turned left to proceed down the sidewalk to point "F" which means Zimmerman was traveling away from his truck instead or proceeding in a direct path to toward point "2:08" and his truck at "C".

If you want to go with that you just disproved your own position.


>>>>

 

[JakeStarkey]

Okay, I remember reading this now. Still, I don't see how that helps the prosecutor in any way on charging him with 2nd degree murder? Infact, why would he say that other than because he was telling the truth? It can't help Zimmerman to admit that to the cops because it might raise their suspicion that he actually was reaching for his gun and brandished it to Trayvon. If he was this cold blooded and calculated murderer, wouldn't he have left that Info out?

Something to ponder....

I'm not saying you're calling him one by the way. That's what the prosecutor is trying to prove.

I'm not questioning Zimmerman's claim of reaching for his phone and I'm not saying he was really reaching for his gun. I'm taking Zimmerman's claim at face value. What I am saying is that Trayvon could not know what Zimmerman was reaching for and that it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to assume Zimmerman was reaching for a weapon given Trayvon was merely heading back to his residence after buying candy from 7-11 when he found a stranger following him for no apparent reason, in the dark, in the rain, first by car and then by foot.

In my opinion, Trayvon was the one acting in self defense, not Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the one who put himself into a precarious situation he shouldn't have and is now crying self defense because he was getting his ass kicked for it.

Trayvon was out of his perceived danger area when he fled.

You are making an assumption not warranted by the situation.

Are you sure you were LEO? You don't sound like you know what you are talking about.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Your post was an absurdity and used to illustrate your absurdity.

Why don't you talk about GZ's demonstration of moral depravity in acting like deputy dawg and following a young man going about his lawful business.

We can talk about that as soon as you explain why you think your avatar isn't a mockery of this case?

You aren't in charge of anything, kid. Your defense is mocking GZ.

No one said anyone was in charge son, he just wants to know why you are making a mockery of Trayvon with your avatar?