Free George Zimmerman

[LockeJaw]

All of us, who know relatively little, are great with the advice!

But that is the magic of USMB!

I've been meaning to ask you why you're using an avatar that mocks the justice for Trayvon side of the argument?

Silly questions that make no sense, except to a disturbed mind, don't get answered.

Edit: I can see bigrebnc stuttering below me. I know he has nothing worth to say.

You don't see the mockery of this case in that picture? You can't be that dense, Jake. Answer the question, don't be a coward. Why did you choose that as your avatar? I don't suffer fools well, lying fools even worse.

I'll just put you on ignore if you're going to pretend its not a mockery of justice in this case or exPlain why it's not one.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I think she knows she can't get him on 2nd deg murder, she's going to offer a plea bargain for manslaughter. We just have to see if anything new justifies that plea being taken by Zimmerman. If it turns out there is no significant new evidence, Zimmerman should turn it down.

I agree he should turn it down. I will add even if she uses aggravated stalking as a justification for charging Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder she would have had an additional charge of aggravated stalking which I don't think she did.

True. IMO, She charged him with 2nd degree murder for two main reasons. 1- To calm the most ardent of those who fell for the race bait hook line and sinker, she had to come up with a very serious charge or Sharpton and the left wing activist media would've kicked the racial tension rhetoric into overdrive, even more than it already has been and she knew charging him with murder 1 would've made it too obvious. 2- As a bluff to try to scare Zimmerman into pleading guilty to manslaughter and end this quick.

Let's see where it goes during the trial though.

Exactly.

 

[Faun]

Since two people here think you have carried the work as it was posted let's see what you have got.

Zimmerman WAS returning back to his truck that he left on twin tree, too meet with the police when they arrived,

There is no independent confirmation that Zimmerman had returned to his truck or that he was returning to his truck. During the dispatcher call, the police dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to follow Martin. Zimmerman said "OK", he acknowledged what the dispatcher told him but there is nothing to show that Zimmerman started to proceed back to his truck.

The dispatcher and Zimmerman were arranging for Zimmerman to meet the police at the mailbox, however during the dispatcher call Zimmerman canceled that idea and instead arranged with the dispacther for the police to call Zimmerman on his cell phone so he could tell them where to meet him or he could meet them. That would be arranged when the police called.

He **MAY** have, he **MAY NOT** - that is an unknown.



Zimmerman may have been pumped up on adrenalin. He could have felt he was in command of the situation and grabbed Martin (which would be assault (Florida Statute 784.011) on Zimmerman's part) and under Florida Statute 776.012 (Use of force in defense of person) Martin would be the Victim and Zimmerman would be the aggressor. As such Martin was authorized the use of self defense in defense of his own person.

Under this scenario, Zimmerman started the fight, but Martin got a good punch in (making Zimmerman's nose bleed and knocking him down resulting in an injury to the back of the head). Zimmerman continues to wrestle with Martin during the time that someone is calling for help. Zimmerman's family ID's the voice as Zimmerman's, Martin's family ID's the voice as Martins, some witnesses say it was Zimmerman's, some witnesses say it was Martins, and Technical audio experts say they have eliminated Zimmerman as the source. So who was actually calling for help at that point is really unknown. We can assume that the audio samples have been sent to Florida Crime Lab's or the FBI for definitive analysis and more will come out in court.

Of course Martin may have been the aggressor, there is no corroborating evidence one way or the other as to who initiated hostilities. The ONLY testimony available prior to the fight was the audio testimony from the girlfriend and her account of the exchange between Zimmerman and Martin differs from the Zimmerman's account that has been made public through the family. However, in support of the girlfriends account there are definative phone records showing the inbound call to Martin's cell phone and the duration of the call which backs up her claim of being in communications with Martin. Zimmerman called the dispatcher at 19:11, listen to the tape and you will hear that 1 minute 5 seconds in the tape Zimmerman makes the "waistband" comment. The girlfriend called at 19:12, the same time Zimmerman is making the "waistband" comment. The likelihood is then was that Martin was NOT making a threatening gesture, he was reaching into his pants pocket or his hoodie pocket to get his phone (most young people don't wear belt cell phone holsters because they are not "cool", although if Martin was wearing one it would have been taken along with Martins clothes as evidence.)

The girlfriends call when compared to Zimmerman's statements at the police station that night, I predict, will be an important piece of evidence. We have absolute proof that Martin was on the phone for about 4 minutes (I don't remember the exact amount of time - greater than 3 & less than 5). If Zimmerman never mentioned the fact that Martin was talking on a cell phone during police questioning that will look bad for him. Remember during questioning he may not have known there was an audio witness. It makes no sense for Martin to be ambushing someone while carrying on a phone conversation.


>>>>

No Zimmerman never returned to his truck because he was jumped by Trayvon trying to make it back to his truck.



You really want to use a person who has changed what she said, plus if Trayvon was so concerned with being followed why didn't he call 911 or his father?



No sorry when Trayvon ran he fled the area that he felt he was in danger he was out so stand your ground no longer exist anymore for Trayvon. Ambushing a person is not standing your ground after you have fled the area you felt in danger.

Of course Martin may have been the aggressor, there is no corroborating evidence one way or the other as to who initiated hostilities. The ONLY testimony available prior to the fight was the audio testimony from the girlfriend and her account of the exchange between Zimmerman and Martin differs from the Zimmerman's account that has been made public through the family.

You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman never mentioned the fact that Martin was talking on a cell phone during police questioning that will look bad for him. Remember during questioning he may not have known there was an audio witness. It makes no sense for Martin to be ambushing someone while carrying on a phone conversation.

Zimmerman never mentioned Trayvon having a phone because Trayvon wasn't using it until after he fled the area he felt danger in. Again why call your Girlfriend which was in a city 4 hours away when he could have called 911 or his father? It is my opinion Trayvon was bragging about what he was about to do to his girl friend and be a tough guy.

At the time of their confrontation, Zimmerman was reaching for something. Zimmerman says it was his phone but it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon and to attack Zimmerman in self defense.

 

[LockeJaw]

There is no independent confirmation that Zimmerman had returned to his truck or that he was returning to his truck. During the dispatcher call, the police dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to follow Martin. Zimmerman said "OK", he acknowledged what the dispatcher told him but there is nothing to show that Zimmerman started to proceed back to his truck.

The dispatcher and Zimmerman were arranging for Zimmerman to meet the police at the mailbox, however during the dispatcher call Zimmerman canceled that idea and instead arranged with the dispacther for the police to call Zimmerman on his cell phone so he could tell them where to meet him or he could meet them. That would be arranged when the police called.

He **MAY** have, he **MAY NOT** - that is an unknown.



Zimmerman may have been pumped up on adrenalin. He could have felt he was in command of the situation and grabbed Martin (which would be assault (Florida Statute 784.011) on Zimmerman's part) and under Florida Statute 776.012 (Use of force in defense of person) Martin would be the Victim and Zimmerman would be the aggressor. As such Martin was authorized the use of self defense in defense of his own person.

Under this scenario, Zimmerman started the fight, but Martin got a good punch in (making Zimmerman's nose bleed and knocking him down resulting in an injury to the back of the head). Zimmerman continues to wrestle with Martin during the time that someone is calling for help. Zimmerman's family ID's the voice as Zimmerman's, Martin's family ID's the voice as Martins, some witnesses say it was Zimmerman's, some witnesses say it was Martins, and Technical audio experts say they have eliminated Zimmerman as the source. So who was actually calling for help at that point is really unknown. We can assume that the audio samples have been sent to Florida Crime Lab's or the FBI for definitive analysis and more will come out in court.

Of course Martin may have been the aggressor, there is no corroborating evidence one way or the other as to who initiated hostilities. The ONLY testimony available prior to the fight was the audio testimony from the girlfriend and her account of the exchange between Zimmerman and Martin differs from the Zimmerman's account that has been made public through the family. However, in support of the girlfriends account there are definative phone records showing the inbound call to Martin's cell phone and the duration of the call which backs up her claim of being in communications with Martin. Zimmerman called the dispatcher at 19:11, listen to the tape and you will hear that 1 minute 5 seconds in the tape Zimmerman makes the "waistband" comment. The girlfriend called at 19:12, the same time Zimmerman is making the "waistband" comment. The likelihood is then was that Martin was NOT making a threatening gesture, he was reaching into his pants pocket or his hoodie pocket to get his phone (most young people don't wear belt cell phone holsters because they are not "cool", although if Martin was wearing one it would have been taken along with Martins clothes as evidence.)

The girlfriends call when compared to Zimmerman's statements at the police station that night, I predict, will be an important piece of evidence. We have absolute proof that Martin was on the phone for about 4 minutes (I don't remember the exact amount of time - greater than 3 & less than 5). If Zimmerman never mentioned the fact that Martin was talking on a cell phone during police questioning that will look bad for him. Remember during questioning he may not have known there was an audio witness. It makes no sense for Martin to be ambushing someone while carrying on a phone conversation.


>>>>

No Zimmerman never returned to his truck because he was jumped by Trayvon trying to make it back to his truck.



You really want to use a person who has changed what she said, plus if Trayvon was so concerned with being followed why didn't he call 911 or his father?



No sorry when Trayvon ran he fled the area that he felt he was in danger he was out so stand your ground no longer exist anymore for Trayvon. Ambushing a person is not standing your ground after you have fled the area you felt in danger.



You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman never mentioned the fact that Martin was talking on a cell phone during police questioning that will look bad for him. Remember during questioning he may not have known there was an audio witness. It makes no sense for Martin to be ambushing someone while carrying on a phone conversation.

Zimmerman never mentioned Trayvon having a phone because Trayvon wasn't using it until after he fled the area he felt danger in. Again why call your Girlfriend which was in a city 4 hours away when he could have called 911 or his father? It is my opinion Trayvon was bragging about what he was about to do to his girl friend and be a tough guy.

At the time of their confrontation, Zimmerman was reaching for something. Zimmerman says it was his phone but it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon and to attack Zimmerman in self defense.

How do you know Zimmerman was reaching for something ?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There is no independent confirmation that Zimmerman had returned to his truck or that he was returning to his truck. During the dispatcher call, the police dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to follow Martin. Zimmerman said "OK", he acknowledged what the dispatcher told him but there is nothing to show that Zimmerman started to proceed back to his truck.

The dispatcher and Zimmerman were arranging for Zimmerman to meet the police at the mailbox, however during the dispatcher call Zimmerman canceled that idea and instead arranged with the dispacther for the police to call Zimmerman on his cell phone so he could tell them where to meet him or he could meet them. That would be arranged when the police called.

He **MAY** have, he **MAY NOT** - that is an unknown.



Zimmerman may have been pumped up on adrenalin. He could have felt he was in command of the situation and grabbed Martin (which would be assault (Florida Statute 784.011) on Zimmerman's part) and under Florida Statute 776.012 (Use of force in defense of person) Martin would be the Victim and Zimmerman would be the aggressor. As such Martin was authorized the use of self defense in defense of his own person.

Under this scenario, Zimmerman started the fight, but Martin got a good punch in (making Zimmerman's nose bleed and knocking him down resulting in an injury to the back of the head). Zimmerman continues to wrestle with Martin during the time that someone is calling for help. Zimmerman's family ID's the voice as Zimmerman's, Martin's family ID's the voice as Martins, some witnesses say it was Zimmerman's, some witnesses say it was Martins, and Technical audio experts say they have eliminated Zimmerman as the source. So who was actually calling for help at that point is really unknown. We can assume that the audio samples have been sent to Florida Crime Lab's or the FBI for definitive analysis and more will come out in court.

Of course Martin may have been the aggressor, there is no corroborating evidence one way or the other as to who initiated hostilities. The ONLY testimony available prior to the fight was the audio testimony from the girlfriend and her account of the exchange between Zimmerman and Martin differs from the Zimmerman's account that has been made public through the family. However, in support of the girlfriends account there are definative phone records showing the inbound call to Martin's cell phone and the duration of the call which backs up her claim of being in communications with Martin. Zimmerman called the dispatcher at 19:11, listen to the tape and you will hear that 1 minute 5 seconds in the tape Zimmerman makes the "waistband" comment. The girlfriend called at 19:12, the same time Zimmerman is making the "waistband" comment. The likelihood is then was that Martin was NOT making a threatening gesture, he was reaching into his pants pocket or his hoodie pocket to get his phone (most young people don't wear belt cell phone holsters because they are not "cool", although if Martin was wearing one it would have been taken along with Martins clothes as evidence.)

The girlfriends call when compared to Zimmerman's statements at the police station that night, I predict, will be an important piece of evidence. We have absolute proof that Martin was on the phone for about 4 minutes (I don't remember the exact amount of time - greater than 3 & less than 5). If Zimmerman never mentioned the fact that Martin was talking on a cell phone during police questioning that will look bad for him. Remember during questioning he may not have known there was an audio witness. It makes no sense for Martin to be ambushing someone while carrying on a phone conversation.


>>>>

No Zimmerman never returned to his truck because he was jumped by Trayvon trying to make it back to his truck.



You really want to use a person who has changed what she said, plus if Trayvon was so concerned with being followed why didn't he call 911 or his father?



No sorry when Trayvon ran he fled the area that he felt he was in danger he was out so stand your ground no longer exist anymore for Trayvon. Ambushing a person is not standing your ground after you have fled the area you felt in danger.



You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman never mentioned the fact that Martin was talking on a cell phone during police questioning that will look bad for him. Remember during questioning he may not have known there was an audio witness. It makes no sense for Martin to be ambushing someone while carrying on a phone conversation.

Zimmerman never mentioned Trayvon having a phone because Trayvon wasn't using it until after he fled the area he felt danger in. Again why call your Girlfriend which was in a city 4 hours away when he could have called 911 or his father? It is my opinion Trayvon was bragging about what he was about to do to his girl friend and be a tough guy.

At the time of their confrontation, Zimmerman was reaching for something. Zimmerman says it was his phone but it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon and to attack Zimmerman in self defense.

If we're going to speculate, since Zimmerman had just finishing talking with the dispatcher he would more than likely still have his phone in his hand, and would not be reaching for anything. If it was me that's exactly where I would have the phone if I just called the police about a suspicious person in my neighborhood.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Since two people here think you have carried the work as it was posted let's see what you have got.

Zimmerman WAS returning back to his truck that he left on twin tree, too meet with the police when they arrived,

There is no independent confirmation that Zimmerman had returned to his truck or that he was returning to his truck. During the dispatcher call, the police dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to follow Martin. Zimmerman said "OK", he acknowledged what the dispatcher told him but there is nothing to show that Zimmerman started to proceed back to his truck.

The dispatcher and Zimmerman were arranging for Zimmerman to meet the police at the mailbox, however during the dispatcher call Zimmerman canceled that idea and instead arranged with the dispacther for the police to call Zimmerman on his cell phone so he could tell them where to meet him or he could meet them. That would be arranged when the police called.

He **MAY** have, he **MAY NOT** - that is an unknown.



Zimmerman may have been pumped up on adrenalin. He could have felt he was in command of the situation and grabbed Martin (which would be assault (Florida Statute 784.011) on Zimmerman's part) and under Florida Statute 776.012 (Use of force in defense of person) Martin would be the Victim and Zimmerman would be the aggressor. As such Martin was authorized the use of self defense in defense of his own person.

Under this scenario, Zimmerman started the fight, but Martin got a good punch in (making Zimmerman's nose bleed and knocking him down resulting in an injury to the back of the head). Zimmerman continues to wrestle with Martin during the time that someone is calling for help. Zimmerman's family ID's the voice as Zimmerman's, Martin's family ID's the voice as Martins, some witnesses say it was Zimmerman's, some witnesses say it was Martins, and Technical audio experts say they have eliminated Zimmerman as the source. So who was actually calling for help at that point is really unknown. We can assume that the audio samples have been sent to Florida Crime Lab's or the FBI for definitive analysis and more will come out in court.

Of course Martin may have been the aggressor, there is no corroborating evidence one way or the other as to who initiated hostilities. The ONLY testimony available prior to the fight was the audio testimony from the girlfriend and her account of the exchange between Zimmerman and Martin differs from the Zimmerman's account that has been made public through the family. However, in support of the girlfriends account there are definative phone records showing the inbound call to Martin's cell phone and the duration of the call which backs up her claim of being in communications with Martin. Zimmerman called the dispatcher at 19:11, listen to the tape and you will hear that 1 minute 5 seconds in the tape Zimmerman makes the "waistband" comment. The girlfriend called at 19:12, the same time Zimmerman is making the "waistband" comment. The likelihood is then was that Martin was NOT making a threatening gesture, he was reaching into his pants pocket or his hoodie pocket to get his phone (most young people don't wear belt cell phone holsters because they are not "cool", although if Martin was wearing one it would have been taken along with Martins clothes as evidence.)

The girlfriends call when compared to Zimmerman's statements at the police station that night, I predict, will be an important piece of evidence. We have absolute proof that Martin was on the phone for about 4 minutes (I don't remember the exact amount of time - greater than 3 & less than 5). If Zimmerman never mentioned the fact that Martin was talking on a cell phone during police questioning that will look bad for him. Remember during questioning he may not have known there was an audio witness. It makes no sense for Martin to be ambushing someone while carrying on a phone conversation.


>>>>

No Zimmerman never returned to his truck because he was jumped by Trayvon trying to make it back to his truck.



You really want to use a person who has changed what she said, plus if Trayvon was so concerned with being followed why didn't he call 911 or his father?



No sorry when Trayvon ran he fled the area that he felt he was in danger he was out so stand your ground no longer exist anymore for Trayvon. Ambushing a person is not standing your ground after you have fled the area you felt in danger.

Of course Martin may have been the aggressor, there is no corroborating evidence one way or the other as to who initiated hostilities. The ONLY testimony available prior to the fight was the audio testimony from the girlfriend and her account of the exchange between Zimmerman and Martin differs from the Zimmerman's account that has been made public through the family.

You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman never mentioned the fact that Martin was talking on a cell phone during police questioning that will look bad for him. Remember during questioning he may not have known there was an audio witness. It makes no sense for Martin to be ambushing someone while carrying on a phone conversation.

Zimmerman never mentioned Trayvon having a phone because Trayvon wasn't using it until after he fled the area he felt danger in. Again why call your Girlfriend which was in a city 4 hours away when he could have called 911 or his father? It is my opinion Trayvon was bragging about what he was about to do to his girl friend and be a tough guy.

********************************************

No Zimmerman never returned to his truck because he was jumped by Trayvon trying to make it back to his truck.

Previously you said Zimmerman was sitting in his truck.

Again, you provide no independent corroboration that Zimmerman was returning to his truck simply a statement of your own opinion. I say that Zimmerman may have been returning or he may not, we don't know.

You really want to use a person who has changed what she said, plus if Trayvon was so concerned with being followed why didn't he call 911 or his father?

1. You have evidence that she has changed what she said to police turing interviews? (Not media reports, actuall access to the interview reports.)

2. You don't know if she tried to call or not. What we know is that the existence of the girlfriends call became public knowledge on 3/20/2012 - that says not preclude her contacting the police that night shortly thereafter after finding out that Martin had been killed.

3. There is independent confirmation that the call took place based on phone records.

No sorry when Trayvon ran he fled the area that he felt he was in danger he was out so stand your ground no longer exist anymore for Trayvon. Ambushing a person is not standing your ground after you have fled the area you felt in danger.

Utter balderdash, if (NOTICE **IF**) Zimmerman followed Martin and Zimmerman initiated hostilities then Martin would never have lost his right to self defense.

At this point there is no corroborating evidence that Zimmerman was attempting to return to his truck, there is no corroborating evidence that Martin was attempting to return the the Father's Girlfriend's home and there is no corroborating evidence on who first initiated hostilities (that has been made public).

You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

I'm not "using" anything, I'm attempting to discuss fact's when we have them.

You said "Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband." Exactly yet we have phone records that prove Martin was on the phone while Zimmerman was looking at Martin while talking on the phone.

Then you say "Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine...", sorry Martin make the call, the call was INBOUND from the girlfriend which in known because the PHONE RECORDS record it as in inbound call.

Zimmerman never mentioned Trayvon having a phone because Trayvon wasn't using it until after he fled the area he felt danger in. Again why call your Girlfriend which was in a city 4 hours away when he could have called 911 or his father? It is my opinion Trayvon was bragging about what he was about to do to his girl friend and be a tough guy.

Again this is factually incorrect.

There is Zimmerman's dispatcher call which is recorded and was initiated at 19:11 and the call lasted approximate 4 minutes (we have dispatcher records that prove this and the duration of the audio also). Approximately 60 seconds into the call, Zimmerman makes his waistband comment (we know this by simply listening to the call and looking at the elapsed time). At 19:12 Martin received an INBOUND phone call from the girlfriend, which is the same time as the "waistband" comment (we know this based on phone records and matching the time to the elapsed time of the dispatcher call). If you then continue to listen to the dispatcher call audio, it is a fact that Zimmerman says that Martin is departing the area under AFTER he answered the inbound call from the girlfriend.


>>>>

 

[Faun]

No Zimmerman never returned to his truck because he was jumped by Trayvon trying to make it back to his truck.



You really want to use a person who has changed what she said, plus if Trayvon was so concerned with being followed why didn't he call 911 or his father?



No sorry when Trayvon ran he fled the area that he felt he was in danger he was out so stand your ground no longer exist anymore for Trayvon. Ambushing a person is not standing your ground after you have fled the area you felt in danger.



You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.



Zimmerman never mentioned Trayvon having a phone because Trayvon wasn't using it until after he fled the area he felt danger in. Again why call your Girlfriend which was in a city 4 hours away when he could have called 911 or his father? It is my opinion Trayvon was bragging about what he was about to do to his girl friend and be a tough guy.

At the time of their confrontation, Zimmerman was reaching for something. Zimmerman says it was his phone but it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon and to attack Zimmerman in self defense.

How do you know Zimmerman was reaching for something ?

It's been reported he said he was reaching for his phone when when Trayvon punched him in the nose. That sounds to me like Trayvon was defending himself from someone possibly reaching for a weapon.

 

[WorldWatcher]

True. IMO, She charged him with 2nd degree murder for two main reasons. 1- To calm the most ardent of those who fell for the race bait hook line and sinker, she had to come up with a very serious charge or Sharpton and the left wing activist media would've kicked the racial tension rhetoric into overdrive, even more than it already has been and she knew charging him with murder 1 would've made it too obvious. 2- As a bluff to try to scare Zimmerman into pleading guilty to manslaughter and end this quick.

Let's see where it goes during the trial though.

A third reason is that I believe the higher charge of Murder 2 v. Manslaughter would change the type and severity of bond that could be requested for Zimmerman to be released from custody.

Personally, and IMHO, I think Murder 2 was a serious stretch on the charges based on information that is available to the public. I think it would be very easy for Zimmerman to establish reasonable doubt (and therefore NOT GUILTY) of that charge.


>>>>

 

[LockeJaw]

I've been meaning to ask you why you're using an avatar that mocks the justice for Trayvon side of the argument?

Silly questions that make no sense, except to a disturbed mind, don't get answered.

Edit: I can see bigrebnc stuttering below me. I know he has nothing worth to say.

You don't see the mockery of this case in that picture? You can't be that dense, Jake. Answer the question, don't be a coward. Why did you choose that as your avatar? I don't suffer fools well, lying fools even worse.

I'll just put you on ignore if you're going to pretend its not a mockery of justice in this case or exPlain why it's not one.

Bump in wait of my reply from Jake explaining how a cat with a hoodie on with the words " I Can Haz Justice?" is not mocking the case?

 

[WorldWatcher]

No Zimmerman never returned to his truck because he was jumped by Trayvon trying to make it back to his truck.



You really want to use a person who has changed what she said, plus if Trayvon was so concerned with being followed why didn't he call 911 or his father?



No sorry when Trayvon ran he fled the area that he felt he was in danger he was out so stand your ground no longer exist anymore for Trayvon. Ambushing a person is not standing your ground after you have fled the area you felt in danger.



You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.



Zimmerman never mentioned Trayvon having a phone because Trayvon wasn't using it until after he fled the area he felt danger in. Again why call your Girlfriend which was in a city 4 hours away when he could have called 911 or his father? It is my opinion Trayvon was bragging about what he was about to do to his girl friend and be a tough guy.

At the time of their confrontation, Zimmerman was reaching for something. Zimmerman says it was his phone but it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon and to attack Zimmerman in self defense.

How do you know Zimmerman was reaching for something ?

Zimmerman's story as related through the father during interviews. At this point we don't have access to what Zimmerman said to the police that night during his interview at the station. I remember the father making the reaching for cell phone claim.


>>>>

 

[bigrebnc1775]

********************************************


Previously you said Zimmerman was sitting in his truck.

Again, you provide no independent corroboration that Zimmerman was returning to his truck simply a statement of your own opinion. I say that Zimmerman may have been returning or he may not, we don't know.



1. You have evidence that she has changed what she said to police turing interviews? (Not media reports, actuall access to the interview reports.)

2. You don't know if she tried to call or not. What we know is that the existence of the girlfriends call became public knowledge on 3/20/2012 - that says not preclude her contacting the police that night shortly thereafter after finding out that Martin had been killed.

3. There is independent confirmation that the call took place based on phone records.



Utter balderdash, if (NOTICE **IF**) Zimmerman followed Martin and Zimmerman initiated hostilities then Martin would never have lost his right to self defense.

At this point there is no corroborating evidence that Zimmerman was attempting to return to his truck, there is no corroborating evidence that Martin was attempting to return the the Father's Girlfriend's home and there is no corroborating evidence on who first initiated hostilities (that has been made public).

You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.

I'm not "using" anything, I'm attempting to discuss fact's when we have them.

You said "Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband." Exactly yet we have phone records that prove Martin was on the phone while Zimmerman was looking at Martin while talking on the phone.

Then you say "Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine...", sorry Martin make the call, the call was INBOUND from the girlfriend which in known because the PHONE RECORDS record it as in inbound call.

Zimmerman never mentioned Trayvon having a phone because Trayvon wasn't using it until after he fled the area he felt danger in. Again why call your Girlfriend which was in a city 4 hours away when he could have called 911 or his father? It is my opinion Trayvon was bragging about what he was about to do to his girl friend and be a tough guy.

Again this is factually incorrect.

There is Zimmerman's dispatcher call which is recorded and was initiated at 19:11 and the call lasted approximate 4 minutes (we have dispatcher records that prove this and the duration of the audio also). Approximately 60 seconds into the call, Zimmerman makes his waistband comment (we know this by simply listening to the call and looking at the elapsed time). At 19:12 Martin received an INBOUND phone call from the girlfriend, which is the same time as the "waistband" comment (we know this based on phone records and matching the time to the elapsed time of the dispatcher call). If you then continue to listen to the dispatcher call audio, it is a fact that Zimmerman says that Martin is departing the area under AFTER he answered the inbound call from the girlfriend.


>>>>

Previously you said Zimmerman was sitting in his truck.

Again, you provide no independent corroboration that Zimmerman was returning to his truck simply a statement of your own opinion. I say that Zimmerman may have been returning or he may not, we don't know.

You can listen to the police audio and tell basically where Zimmerman was
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQYg]ACTUAL UNCUT AUDIO!!! George Zimmerman's Trayvon Martin 911 - YouTube[/ame]

So try again with your opinion based assertions.

 

[LockeJaw]

True. IMO, She charged him with 2nd degree murder for two main reasons. 1- To calm the most ardent of those who fell for the race bait hook line and sinker, she had to come up with a very serious charge or Sharpton and the left wing activist media would've kicked the racial tension rhetoric into overdrive, even more than it already has been and she knew charging him with murder 1 would've made it too obvious. 2- As a bluff to try to scare Zimmerman into pleading guilty to manslaughter and end this quick.

Let's see where it goes during the trial though.

A third reason is that I believe the higher charge of Murder 2 v. Manslaughter would change the type and severity of bond that could be requested for Zimmerman to be released from custody.

Personally, and IMHO, I think Murder 2 was a serious stretch on the charges based on information that is available to the public. I think it would be very easy for Zimmerman to establish reasonable doubt (and therefore NOT GUILTY) of that charge.


>>>>

We agree here. I think Zimmerman would be smart if he stayed in PC in the SCJ. A lot safer in there for him than on the streets.

 

[Faun]

No Zimmerman never returned to his truck because he was jumped by Trayvon trying to make it back to his truck.



You really want to use a person who has changed what she said, plus if Trayvon was so concerned with being followed why didn't he call 911 or his father?



No sorry when Trayvon ran he fled the area that he felt he was in danger he was out so stand your ground no longer exist anymore for Trayvon. Ambushing a person is not standing your ground after you have fled the area you felt in danger.



You're using the girlfriend as some key piece of evidence. Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone when he was talking with the dispatcher, and according to Zimmerman martin had his hands around or in his waistband. This is the way I see it Trayvon called his girlfriend after he fled the seine and told her he was going to jack a mother ****** up and Zimmerman was the intended target. And to add the girlfriend never heard any conversion between Trayvon and Zimmerman.



Zimmerman never mentioned Trayvon having a phone because Trayvon wasn't using it until after he fled the area he felt danger in. Again why call your Girlfriend which was in a city 4 hours away when he could have called 911 or his father? It is my opinion Trayvon was bragging about what he was about to do to his girl friend and be a tough guy.

At the time of their confrontation, Zimmerman was reaching for something. Zimmerman says it was his phone but it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon and to attack Zimmerman in self defense.

If we're going to speculate, since Zimmerman had just finishing talking with the dispatcher he would more than likely still have his phone in his hand, and would not be reaching for anything. If it was me that's exactly where I would have the phone if I just called the police about a suspicious person in my neighborhood.

The police reported that Zimmerman said he was reaching for his phone. If you're a law abiding citizen being followed in the dark and in the rain, first by car and then by foot, for no apparent reason and you see this person reaching for something, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that an individual in that predicament would be within their rights to defend themselves.

 

[LockeJaw]

Boy oh boy! Jake got ghost like Casper when I raised that question!

 

[LockeJaw]

At the time of their confrontation, Zimmerman was reaching for something. Zimmerman says it was his phone but it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon and to attack Zimmerman in self defense.

If we're going to speculate, since Zimmerman had just finishing talking with the dispatcher he would more than likely still have his phone in his hand, and would not be reaching for anything. If it was me that's exactly where I would have the phone if I just called the police about a suspicious person in my neighborhood.

The police reported that Zimmerman said he was reaching for his phone. If you're a law abiding citizen being followed in the dark and in the rain, first by car and then by foot, for no apparent reason and you see this person reaching for something, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that an individual in that predicament would be within their rights to defend themselves.

That wouldn't really negate Zimmerman's claim Of self defense since that'd still mean Trayvon attacked him. Might help if I'm correct and the SP is trying to get Zimmerman to plead guilty to manslaughter, though if that's the case, it would have to be involuntary manslaughter IMO.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

At the time of their confrontation, Zimmerman was reaching for something. Zimmerman says it was his phone but it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon and to attack Zimmerman in self defense.

If we're going to speculate, since Zimmerman had just finishing talking with the dispatcher he would more than likely still have his phone in his hand, and would not be reaching for anything. If it was me that's exactly where I would have the phone if I just called the police about a suspicious person in my neighborhood.

The police reported that Zimmerman said he was reaching for his phone. If you're a law abiding citizen being followed in the dark and in the rain, first by car and then by foot, for no apparent reason and you see this person reaching for something, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that an individual in that predicament would be within their rights to defend themselves.

What police report? I still looking but haven't found it.

 

[Faun]

True. IMO, She charged him with 2nd degree murder for two main reasons. 1- To calm the most ardent of those who fell for the race bait hook line and sinker, she had to come up with a very serious charge or Sharpton and the left wing activist media would've kicked the racial tension rhetoric into overdrive, even more than it already has been and she knew charging him with murder 1 would've made it too obvious. 2- As a bluff to try to scare Zimmerman into pleading guilty to manslaughter and end this quick.

Let's see where it goes during the trial though.

A third reason is that I believe the higher charge of Murder 2 v. Manslaughter would change the type and severity of bond that could be requested for Zimmerman to be released from custody.

Personally, and IMHO, I think Murder 2 was a serious stretch on the charges based on information that is available to the public. I think it would be very easy for Zimmerman to establish reasonable doubt (and therefore NOT GUILTY) of that charge.


>>>>

There is a lot of information not released. Zimmerman was questioned in length by detective Singleton after being taken into custody by police the night of the killing. Then there are forensics which have not been publicly released.

 

[Faun]

At the time of their confrontation, Zimmerman was reaching for something. Zimmerman says it was his phone but it would have been reasonable for Trayvon to think he could be reaching for a weapon and to attack Zimmerman in self defense.

How do you know Zimmerman was reaching for something ?

Zimmerman's story as related through the father during interviews. At this point we don't have access to what Zimmerman said to the police that night during his interview at the station. I remember the father making the reaching for cell phone claim.


>>>>

No, this was leaked to the press by the police. This is Zimmerman's account, not his father's.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

How do you know Zimmerman was reaching for something ?

Zimmerman's story as related through the father during interviews. At this point we don't have access to what Zimmerman said to the police that night during his interview at the station. I remember the father making the reaching for cell phone claim.


>>>>

No, this was leaked to the press by the police. This is Zimmerman's account, not his father's.

Where is the report? link

 

[Faun]

If we're going to speculate, since Zimmerman had just finishing talking with the dispatcher he would more than likely still have his phone in his hand, and would not be reaching for anything. If it was me that's exactly where I would have the phone if I just called the police about a suspicious person in my neighborhood.

The police reported that Zimmerman said he was reaching for his phone. If you're a law abiding citizen being followed in the dark and in the rain, first by car and then by foot, for no apparent reason and you see this person reaching for something, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that an individual in that predicament would be within their rights to defend themselves.

What police report? I still looking but haven't found it.

Zimmerman's account to the police was leaked to the Orlando Sentinel...

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's account to police of the Trayvon Martin shooting. - Orlando Sentinel