Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Minneapolis in 2007.
...But how Minnesota was able to rebuild the 35W bridge so quickly — in just over a year — offers hope to officials scrambling to reopen the Maryland bridge as quickly as possible.

MNDOT gave credit to the support received from the WH.


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I-35W Mississippi River bridge - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Minneapolis I-35W bridge collapse offers lessons for swift Baltimore rebuild

Minnesota’s experience recovering from the I-35W bridge collapse in 2007 provides important lessons to guide officials in Maryland as they work to rebuild the Francis Scott Key Bridge.

www.mprnews.org

The I-35W bridge, a federal interstate highway that’s a major artery through Minneapolis, is a much busier thoroughfare, carrying about 140,000 vehicles a day. That compares to only about 31,000 daily crossings for the Maryland bridge.

That bridge did not collapse due to a vessel hitting it like Baltimore and the I-40 bridge in Oklahoma. That bridge is microscopic compared to Baltimore. The bridge in Minneapolis fell because of poor design and failure to properly inspect.

 

[para bellum]

It was claimed to be the port anchor.

Yes, we know which anchor was dropped. That does not tell us where it was relative to the ship at the time of the collision.

Not if the current was .5 knots as is now claimed.

It was crabbing at .5 kts., because that current is why it was crabbing.

I'm not going to search your history either. You registered false information. We'll watch you going forward.

On what I've said: It's all true and unbiased.

Then tell us what I said that was false. You can't.

For the record, this was my office for a year, Alaska to Costa Rica...

 

[eagle1462010]

Don't be silly.

For our info, this one took 2 years to rebuild but half of it didn't collapse. A wild guess is that this bridge is going to take twice as long. 4 years?

Can you repost the pic showing the ship's course in closeup detail? It was on one of the first few pages.
The purpose would be to show two course changes which aren't evident on the others.

Lol

Was not the point. My comment had nothing to do with bridge reconstruction, but everything to how the anchor chain may have caused the turn to stbd

 

[Donald H]

Yes, we know which anchor was dropped. That does not tell us where it was relative to the ship at the time of the collision.

It was crabbing at .5 kts., because that current is why it was crabbing.

Wrong.

Then tell us what I said that was false. You can't.

For the record, this was my office for a year, Alaska to Costa Rica...

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View attachment 925053

Baloney. Junoir seamen are taught to take the helm

Which one, the large ship or the 60 foot yacht?

 

[Donald H]

Lol

Was not the point. My comment had nothing to do with bridge reconstruction, but everything to how the anchor chain may have caused the turn to stbd

Baloney.

 

[beagle9]

Anything that slows the rebuilding of the FSK bridge will be tossed or ignored.
I saw it on I-35, and with the WTC rebuild.
Let them file. They will not have standing, or some other reason to toss their suit.

Hopefully so..

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So now you’re gonna go personal? Jesus Christ, it’s just shiphandling/maneuvering characteristics.


Okay?


Figure what out? All I’ve said is that rudder effect is minimal without propulsion. So what’s your point?


Wrong. I said it was minimal.


It’s not as simple as that. With foreward way on, with three knots or more, the effect of a bow thruster is reduced.

The scale of the man is irrelevant. Is the rudder “giant” in the context of the ship size that it’s mounted on? No.

Nimitz-class carriers have 4 screws, but only two rudders. How does that work if the rudders are not in line with the propellors?

BTW, the word is forward, not "foreward". Also, the word is unnecessary inn that context. The word "way" indicates forward motion.

 

[lennypartiv]

...But how Minnesota was able to rebuild the 35W bridge so quickly — in just over a year

The Mississippi River is very narrow in Minnesota. The bridge needing to be replaced in Baltimore crosses a bay.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Kind of explains why tug guidance is needed until get pass vital infrastructure such as bridges and such.

Yeah, that's why thousands of ships accomplished the trip from the pier to the bay without tugs for nearly 50 years. How many times did they destroy the bridge?

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Can you repost the pic showing the ship's course in closeup detail? It was on one of the first few pages.
The purpose would be to show two course changes which aren't evident on the others.

Link: Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

 

[kyzr]

That bridge did not collapse due to a vessel hitting it like Baltimore and the I-40 bridge in Oklahoma. That bridge is microscopic compared to Baltimore. The bridge in Minneapolis fell because of poor design and failure to properly inspect.

True. I used the I-35 bridge as an example of how the WH can expedite the bridge replacement.
Another poster said that the FSK bridge would be held up by environmentalists' lawsuits and that it wouldn't be built for a decade or more.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Yeah, that's why thousands of ships accomplished the trip from the pier to the bay without tugs for nearly 50 years. How many times did they destroy the bridge?

Because they didn't have a mechanical failure. Had they, they would have most likely hit something as well. Had the tugs stayed with this ship there is a good chance even with the mechanical failure the tugs could have prevented impact.

It took 5 years to build this bridge the first time. I suspect that with the cleanup that will be involved and the repairs to existing legs before construction can begin, it will take about that this time.

 

[lennypartiv]

Because they didn't have a mechanical failure. Had they, they would have most likely hit something as well.

It took 5 years to build this bridge the first time. I suspect that with the cleanup that will be involved and the repairs to existing legs before construction can begin, it will take about that this time.

Protecting the bridge supports has to be part of the plan. No simple task when ships that size travel under the bridge.

 

[kyzr]

The Mississippi River is very narrow in Minnesota. The bridge needing to be replaced in Baltimore crosses a bay.

True. Another factor to consider is that the Baltimore ship channels were going to be widened to handle larger ships.
Now that the FSK bridge is down they may be deciding to do both the bridge redesign and channel widening redesign together.
The question was, will replacing the FSK bridge take a year or two, or a decade or two?

 

[Donald H]

The channel is 700 feet wide. Plenty of room for 2 ships at the same time.

For scaling purposes:

View attachment 924128

View attachment 924122

View attachment 924124

Thanks! The picture of the course is what I was looking for. Two course changes are evident and the second one is a bit troubling.

 

[para bellum]

Well at least you've illustrated the course change to starboard. Hopefully you are informed on some of the technical details?

Yes, ONE course change. When propulsion was lost.

Now where is that second course change you keep talking about?

 

[lennypartiv]

True. Another factor to consider is that the Baltimore ship channels were going to be widened to handle larger ships.
Now that the FSK bridge is down they may be deciding to do both the bridge redesign and channel widening redesign together.
The question was, will replacing the FSK bridge take a year or two, or a decade or two?

I still think moving the bridge NW of the port has to be a consideration. No simple task, but less of these mammoth boats would travel under the bridge.

 

[beagle9]

Yeah, that's why thousands of ships accomplished the trip from the pier to the bay without tugs for nearly 50 years. How many times did they destroy the bridge?

Doesn't take but one time to make a critical mistake, otherwise in order for federal safety regulators to realize the dangers that exist. Let's do this then - Use the history of unaccompanied ship's striking structures over the course of time, and then ask yourself what could deal with such a thing or correct it in the future ? Once entering the bays for docking, the tugs go into action, but an assigned fleet couldn't escort ships past critical infrastructure when needed ? They wouldn't actually have to be guiding the ship by physical contact, but be close alongside if called into action.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

I still think moving the bridge NW of the port has to be a consideration. No simple task, but less of these mammoth boats would travel under the bridge.

There's really not anywhere else for the bridge to be other than where it is now. There are homes, businesses, etc all around the waterfront. It would cost far too much to move I-695 and would also add to the length of time for the rebuild.

 

[beagle9]

I still think moving the bridge NW of the port has to be a consideration. No simple task, but less of these mammoth boats would travel under the bridge.

Or a tunnel built ?