Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

[para bellum]

If the ship was in the center of the underpass, it would have been "out of bounds" for the lane that leaves the channel. Think of the channel as a multi-lane highway for cars.

Exactly. It was in the outbound lane, the channel itself is center span.

 

[lennypartiv]

There's really not anywhere else for the bridge to be other than where it is now. There are homes, businesses, etc all around the waterfront. It would cost far too much to move I-695 and would also add to the length of time for the rebuild.

Yes, they would have to reroute the highway, possibly where neighborhoods currently exist. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Donald H]

Because they didn't have a mechanical failure. Had they, they would have most likely hit something as well. Had the tugs stayed with this ship there is a good chance even with the mechanical failure the tugs could have prevented impact.

No on the tugs for about the 150th. time!!

the effect a tug would have on a ship doing 8 knots is about equivalent to a butterfly!

Ask the admiral. And ask the admiral about what could happen if the ship messed around at 2 knots or less around the bridge.

Even in America stuff is done the way it's done for good reasons. (sometimes)

It took 5 years to build this bridge the first time. I suspect that with the cleanup that will be involved and the repairs to existing legs before construction can begin, it will take about that this time.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Two tugboats circled in red. How many do you think it would take to be able to control a ship the size of the Dali once the ship has a total blackout?

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Or a tunnel built ?

There are 2 tunnels in downtown Baltimore. Keep in mind that the Key Bridge was the only path for trucks carrying hazmats to and from the port. Hazmats are NOT allowed in tunnels.

 

[Donald H]

Yes, ONE course change. When propulsion was lost.

Now where is that second course change you keep talking about?

If you can't see it then you're going to have to ask your dad.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Come on Elon...

..... ..... ..... Rebuilding a bridge with damage parts?

..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... Bridge engineering ain't rocket science.

WW

 

[Donald H]

Two tugboats circled in red. How many do you think it would take to be able to control a ship the size of the Dali once the ship has a total blackout?

View attachment 925069

Tugs wouldn't even attempt to control a ship travelling at 8 knots. The tugs would still be there prepared for the ship to come to rest.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Tugs wouldn't even attempt to control a ship travelling at 8 knots. The tugs would still be there prepared for the ship to come to rest.

Exactly my point: the tugs, even if there a dozen, could not have prevented what happened. It was a freak accident. Those on here thinking that if the tugs (2 I think) had continued escorting until the ship was past the bridge, they could have prevented the collision. No, they could not have.

 

[Donald H]

Exactly my point: the tugs, even if there a dozen, could not have prevented what happened. It was a freak accident. Those on here thinking that if the tugs (2 I think) had continued escorting until the ship was past the bridge, they could have prevented the collision. No, they could not have.

I understand what you say. You've commented consistent with your knowledge and no more.

 

[para bellum]

the effect a tug would have on a ship doing 8 knots is about equivalent to a butterfly!

Tell it to Foss.

"The Lindsey eases back to about 10 knots, from its top speed of 15 knots. Its captain, Duane Crowley, stands at the ready in its soaring and carpeted wheelhouse, around which wrap 14 windows. Crowley turns a wheel with a beefy index finger and throws a lever controlling the Lindsey's German-made cycloidal propellers, which extend vertically like five giant fingers from the bottom of the hull. The cycloidal props allow the tugboat, which has no rudder, to change direction in an instant.

The nimble Lindsey scuttles like a crab across the frothy gap to the tanker. Crowley kisses his boat's stern against the tanker's hull, then pushes into the Prince William Sound with 1,000 of the Lindsey's 8,000 horsepower.

Within seconds, the bow of the Prince William Sound slides perceptibly to the left. Both vessels maintain their speed, about 10 knots. Eventually, the Prince William Sound noses into Rosario Strait."

The Tug Of Tugs -- Foss Maritime Develops Boat That Exerts More Pull, Maneuverability | The Seattle Times

archive.seattletimes.com

 

[eagle1462010]

Exactly my point: the tugs, even if there a dozen, could not have prevented what happened. It was a freak accident. Those on here thinking that if the tugs (2 I think) had continued escorting until the ship was past the bridge, they could have prevented the collision. No, they could not have.

2 tugs could have helped steer just as they do undocking. Those 2 tugs got it underway.

On LHD1, remember 4 helping us in bad weather Norfolk. No loss of power but they did push us around. Just as big as this ship

 

[Donald H]

Tell it to Foss.

"The Lindsey eases back to about 10 knots, from its top speed of 15 knots. Its captain, Duane Crowley, stands at the ready in its soaring and carpeted wheelhouse, around which wrap 14 windows. Crowley turns a wheel with a beefy index finger and throws a lever controlling the Lindsey's German-made cycloidal propellers, which extend vertically like five giant fingers from the bottom of the hull. The cycloidal props allow the tugboat, which has no rudder, to change direction in an instant.

The nimble Lindsey scuttles like a crab across the frothy gap to the tanker. Crowley kisses his boat's stern against the tanker's hull, then pushes into the Prince William Sound with 1,000 of the Lindsey's 8,000 horsepower.

Within seconds, the bow of the Prince William Sound slides perceptibly to the left. Both vessels maintain their speed, about 10 knots. Eventually, the Prince William Sound noses into Rosario Strait."

The Tug Of Tugs -- Foss Maritime Develops Boat That Exerts More Pull, Maneuverability | The Seattle Times

archive.seattletimes.com

In your desperation to make your point, you've found an exception with the Lindsay. Too bad tugs of that capability weren't there.

But again you go searching for something to rescue yourself, and again proving your ignorance of the situation that existed.

Harbour tugs don't mess with ships doing 8 knots. (the butterfly effect) Those tugs are ordered off by the ship's pilot.

 

[para bellum]

In your desperation to make your point, you've found an exception with the Lindsay. Too bad tugs of that capability weren't there.

That piece is 30 years old. Those tugs are everywhere now dummy.

Tugboat Information

www.tugboatinformation.com

 

[Donald H]

That piece is 30 years old. Those tugs are everywhere now dummy.

Tugboat Information

www.tugboatinformation.com

The Lindsay and other ocean-going tugs aren't relevant to the incident/accident. Go play.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Id say that guy is probably spot on. Total loss of power, emergency generators come on, restart main engine FULL Astern Dropping port anchor, caused the ship to turn to stbd.

That ship was temporarily a DEAD STICK. THRUSTERS NEED POWER. FUEL AND HYDRAULICS NEED POWER. So all this id have done this is BS if you are a DEAD STICK.

They had no time so they kicked out anchor refired engine and went FULL ASTERN but that made it worse, but it was too late anyway.

None of that made anything worse, but there wasn't time for them to make it much better. Dropping the port anchor would cause the bow to turn to port, not starboard. The stern would slide to starboard when the anchor finally caught, but I doubt that the anchor had time to catch.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Sail boats and 100,000 ton vessels have no comparisons.

Hydrodynamics is hydrodynamics regardless of scale. If anything, a sailboat hull is far more efficient hydrodynamically than any powered boat or ship. Any tiny imperfection can reduce the speed of a sailing vessel. When we hauled our sailboats for bottom cleaning and painting, we went over the hulls with straight edges to locate high and low spots in the fiberglass layup. We then sanded down the high spots or filled the low spots before applying the new bottom paint.

 

[AZrailwhale]

One also wonders why the vessel made it that far, and then the worst imagined happened that led to a perfect storm scenario ?

Murphy's Law.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Don't be silly.

For our info, this one took 2 years to rebuild but half of it didn't collapse. A wild guess is that this bridge is going to take twice as long. 4 years?

Can you repost the pic showing the ship's course in closeup detail? It was on one of the first few pages.
The purpose would be to show two course changes which aren't evident on the others.

I would say longer than that because the bridge design will have to be modernized, the piers will have to be built further apart and anti-collision caissons will have to be added both upstream and downstream of the piers to deflect out of control ships. Requirements have changed a lot since the seventies because of ships colliding with bridges. The new bridge will be larger, higher, longer and safer than the old bridge. Compare the old SF Bay Bridge with the new one for examples.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Or a tunnel built ?

A tunnel would be far safer but many times more expensive. And we have been told that the bridge is the hazmat route since the tunnels don't allow hazmat, so that complicates matters.