Fragment of Gospel of Mark from 60AD

[longknife]

The oldest example yet found and is driving atheists up the wall. Note they are not attacking the material, just the method of discovering it. No surprises here.


Read more with links @ Enormous Biblical Discovery Made in Egyptian Mummy Mask Atheists Are NOT Amused John Hawkins Right Wing News

 

[Moonglow]

Eh....

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

We have the King James Bible and it is the most unchanged / intact book of antiquity in the world today according to Scholars and the second most intact / unchanged book is the Illiad. We need to be careful of "new discoveries" in this day and age. There are too many people with an agenda to "change" the Word of God.

 

[longknife]

We have the King James Bible and it is the most unchanged / intact book of antiquity in the world today according to Scholars and the second most intact / unchanged book is the Illiad. We need to be careful of "new discoveries" in this day and age. There are too many people with an agenda to "change" the Word of God.

The King Jame's version of the bible was an effort to change the Vulgate Bible to be more popular to the common people. It was deliberately translated into verse more common to the English language than the Latin.

The Vulgate is the oldest bible currently in use.

 

[mamooth]

Best guess is that it's a hoax.

Nobody has actually seen this fragment. And the owner won't show it to anyone. And neither handwriting analysis or carbon dating is precise enough to date with a decade.

No surprise, of course, that certain parties fell for it. They wanted to be fooled, and they especially wanted reasons to hate atheists.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
odd there is no mention of what it said nor how it was dated ...

- and so what, even a phony manuscript has a beginning.

.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Best guess is that it's a hoax.

Nobody has actually seen this fragment. And the owner won't show it to anyone. And neither handwriting analysis or carbon dating is precise enough to date with a decade.

No surprise, of course, that certain parties fell for it. They wanted to be fooled, and they especially wanted reasons to hate atheists.

^ Charter member of the AGWCult who had no idea who Ottmar Edenhofer was

Yeah, I'd listen to this guy

 

[Luddly Neddite]

This story is a few years old and according to this, he's finally going to publish.

I can't find any reason to think atheists would care one way or the other.

Mummy Mask May Reveal Oldest Known Gospel

by Owen Jarus, Live Science Contributor | January 18, 2015 04:21am ET




This story was updated at 9:54 a.m. ET on Feb. 9.


A text that may be the oldest copy of a gospel known to exist — a fragment of the Gospel of Mark that was written during the first century, before the year 90 — is set to be published.


At present, the oldest surviving copies of the gospel texts date to the second century (the years 101 to 200).




This first-century gospel fragment was written on a sheet of papyrus that was later reused to create a mask that was worn by a mummy. Although the mummies of Egyptian pharaohs wore masks made of gold, ordinary people had to settle for masks made out of papyrus (or linen), paint and glue. Given how expensive papyrus was, people often had to reuse sheets that already had writing on them.

 

[Disir]

The oldest example yet found and is driving atheists up the wall. Note they are not attacking the material, just the method of discovering it. No surprises here.


Read more with links @ Enormous Biblical Discovery Made in Egyptian Mummy Mask Atheists Are NOT Amused John Hawkins Right Wing News

Um.........I don't know how to break this to you but Bart Ehrman is not an atheist. He's agnostic and I have never come across anything militant about him............ever. This tells me that Ms. Van Laar is suffering from headupassitis.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Mark strikes back Mummy cartonnage and Christian apologetics again Faces Voices

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Interesting from an historical point of view but beyond that - ?

Why does the OP's rabid RW link say this upsets atheists?


In any event, another link -

Here, for example, are five key, unanswered questions.

1. What is the actual text on the papyrus?

We are told that it is from Mark, but, after all, no one has seen it. Which part of Mark?

2. Is the handwriting consistent with the supposed dating?

Brice Jones, a papyrologist at Concordia University, told us that dating a text by handwriting, or paleography, "is not a precise science, and I know of no papyrologist who would date a literary papryus to within a decade on the basis of paleography alone."

3. Is the ink or papyrus itself consistent with the supposed dating?

According to Jones, if paleography is inexact, "radiocarbon dating is equally (and perhaps more) problematic, since one must allow for a time gap of a century or more."

They say that these lab tests have all been done, but as no one has actually seen the reports, they are less than confirmatory.

4. Who owns the papyrus, or the mask from which it was taken, and from whom was it purchased, and when?

The time and place of a text's discovery, known as its provenance, are crucial for verifying its authenticity, especially in a period of extensive looting of archaeological sites and museum theft.

According to international law, if the mask was taken out of Egypt after 1970, it is officially "unprovenanced," and is effectively prohibited from being sold or published. Evans told us "I do not know the specifics" about the provenance of this mask.

5. Who has seen the text, who has verified it, and who has studied it?

Evans is not a trained papyrologist, but is rather a scholar of the New Testament. To this point, none of the papyrologists, text critics or other highly specialized experts, who must have worked on this text before these claims could be made about it, have been identified or spoken publicly about it.

These questions are not necessarily challenges to the authenticity of the text. They are, rather, a recognition that, until the scholarly world has been granted access to this papyrus, the public statements made about it are no more revelatory than if we announced that we had found Moses' private copy of Genesis in a hummus container, and we'll show it to you later.

 

[Disir]

Otherwise it would just be accepted as fact. Any questioning must come from atheists.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Otherwise it would just be accepted as fact. Any questioning must come from atheists.

I would really like to disagree with that. I would like to believe that biblical scholars would be the biggest test but they do seem to have way too much invested in hiding facts in favor of mythology.

Remembering the Da Vinci Code farce.

 

[Disir]

Otherwise it would just be accepted as fact. Any questioning must come from atheists.

I would really like to disagree with that. I would like to believe that biblical scholars would be the biggest test but they do seem to have way too much invested in hiding facts in favor of mythology.

Remembering the Da Vinci Code farce.

That's what is coming from the author of article. Frankly, it's rather condescending to Christians.

It depends on whom you read. I have a pretty good selection of Christian authors in antiquity/late antiquity.

Edited for the following: Of those books there are those that don't delve into the historical (or the lack thereof) Jesus. I knew who they were when I purchased the books and I didn't demand that they denounce anything outright. It wasn't a requirement. I do find the Ehrman being labeled as a militant atheist rather amazing.

 

[Iceweasel]

The author at least points out the value of preserving artifacts. There's so much wrong with the original piece it isn't funny. Who's arguing that Mark was made up hundreds of years later? Nobody knows who wrote Mark, or any of the other Gospels for that matter. A fragment doesn't give any insight to the rest of the book so it doesn't prove anything in particular, or even if there was a book.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

We have the King James Bible and it is the most unchanged / intact book of antiquity in the world today according to Scholars and the second most intact / unchanged book is the Illiad. We need to be careful of "new discoveries" in this day and age. There are too many people with an agenda to "change" the Word of God.

The King Jame's version of the bible was an effort to change the Vulgate Bible to be more popular to the common people. It was deliberately translated into verse more common to the English language than the Latin.

The Vulgate is the oldest bible currently in use.

You are seriously mistaken. The Latin Vulgate is the source of false teaching that you are under. See this link for the truth:

The Latin Vulgate Unmasked At Last

Jerome's version was a perversion of the Old Latin Version!!
The Old Latin Version was used by the s of North Africa until the Muslim destroyed all the copies. It was the version that St. Patrick brought to Hibernia and the Scots used it at Lindisfarne and Iona.
The entire superstructure of the Vatican system is built on sinking sand . . . and not on the Rock of Ages....Every corrupt practice and doctrine can be traced back to the Latin Vulgate of Jerome.

The Latin hierarchy accepts the English language Douay-Rheims Version is an accurate translation of the Latin Vulgate Version.


Painting of Jerome (340– 420)
by El Greco.

In 382, Jerome was commissioned by Pope Damasus torevise the popular Latin translation of the Bible in use since at least 150 AD.

Jerome worked from one of the 50 copies which Constantine ordered from Eusebius of Caesarea.

It was called the Latin Vulgate and became the official version of the Vatican and the foundation of all their damnable heresies (II St. Peter 2:1).



Pope Damasus I (305–384). Pope from 366 to 384.
The Council of Trent condemned every other translation of the Bible except for the Latin Vulgate:

Moreover, the same sacred and holy Synod,–considering that no small utility may accrue to the Church of God, if it be made known which out of all the Latin editions, now in circulation, of the sacred books, is to be held as authentic,–ordains and declares, that the said old and vulgate edition, which, by the lengthened usage of so many years, has been approved of in the Church, be, in public lectures, disputations, sermons and expositions, held as authentic; and that no one is to dare, or presume to reject it under any pretext whatever. (Council of Trent, Fourth Session).

The corrupt readings in the Latin Vulgate found their way into the English, French, German, Spanish, and Italian Versions.

The keys of "St. Peter," Joshua changed to Jesus, the mass, the Virgin Mary as Mother of God, are all found in embryonic form in the Latin Vulgate. The mistakes, omissions, and outright fabrications are legion . . . but I can only cover the highlights.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

And then there is this story:

The Latin Vulgate Unmasked At Last

The Latin Vulgate of Jerome was copied from the Old Latin or Italia Version made in 150 AD. That Latin masterpiece was butchered by Jerome, and the last person to translate from that noble version was Saint John Wycliffe.

Saint John Wycliffe
(1328–1384).

Saint John Wycliffe–the Morning Star of the Reformation–was a professor at Oxford University in England.

While at the university he discovered a copy of the Old Latin Version.

For translating from the Old Latin Version, Saint John's bones were dug up and burned 44 years after his death!!


Burning the bones of Saint John Wycliffe.
His translation caused a sensation in England and it looked like the break with the Papacy was imminent. Wycliffe had a Judas assistant named John Purvey (1354–1414). Purvey poisoned the Saint and after his death he edited his translation to conform to Jerome's perversion. Wycliffe was the last person to correctly translate the Bible. Most of the corrupt readings of the modern Bibles conform to Jerome's version (St. John 7:8).

After his death, the monks left no stone unturned in their search for copies of Wycliffe's English translation. Any copies found were promptly burned. At that time England was also experiencing a titanic struggle for supremacy between English and French. Wycliffe's translation tipped the scales in favor of English so he can also be called the "Father of the English Language."

For their translations, the Reformers of the 16th century used the original languages of Hebrew and Greek. That did not help them totransliterate Bible names. Some copies of his masterpiece translation might still be hidden away at Oxford University, but copies definitely exist in the Secret Archives of the Vatican.
_______________
To God be the Glory - today we have the King James Bible which was not perverted by Jerome. This is why the Roman Catholic Vatican seeks to destroy the King James Bible. They are behind the mass effort to create more and more translations and spread the lie that the King James Bible is not accurate.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

And then there was this cover-up by the Latin Vulgate:
The Latin Vulgate Unmasked At Last


Sodomites were expelled from the Latin Vulgate Version!!
According to the Bible, JEHOVAH created Adam and Eve . . . not Adam and Steve. In the Old Covenant, homosexuality was called SODOMY after the perverted city of Sodom that was destroyed by fire:

Then JEHOVAH rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from JEHOVAH out of heaven(Genesis 19:24).
The Holy Bible has a lot to say about sodomy or homosexuality and Jesus said that the world would be just like Sodom and Gomorrah before His Second Coming:

But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (Luke 17: 29-30).
JEHOVAH told Israel:

There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. (Deuteronomy 23:17).

There shall be no whore among the daughters of Israel, nor whoremonger among the sons of Israel. (Deuteronomy 23:17, Douay-Rheims Version).
Sodomite is changed to EFFEMINATE in the Latin Vulgate:

And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which JEHOVAH cast out before the children of Israel (I Kings 14:24).
There were also the effeminate in the land, and they did according to all the abominations of the people, whom the Lord had destroyed before the face of the children of Israel (Douay-Rheims Version).
And he (Jehoshaphat) took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made. (I Kings 15:12).

And he took away the effeminate out of the land, and removed all the filth of the idols, which his fathers had made.(Douay-Rheims Version).
These changes are also found in I Kings 22:46 and 2 Kings 23:7.
______________
With the new translations coming out today the Vatican are removing / changing many of the Scriptures of the Bible once again. It is a full on attack against the King James Bible - the Authorized Word of God.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

And then there is this too:


The Latin Vulgate Unmasked At Last
The ROCK was expelled from the Latin Vulgate Version!!
When Joshua first met Peter, he called him Cephas which is interpreted as A STONE:

And he (Andrew) brought him to Joshua. And when Joshua beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jonah: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone (St. John 1:42).

Here is how the Latin Vulgate explains this verse:

And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus looking upon him, said: Thou art Simon the son of Jona. Thou shalt be called Cephas, which is interpreted Peter(Douay-Rheims Version).
That really explains what Cephas means.

In the Old Covenant, JEHOVAH is called a ROCK at least 15 times. Most of them are MISSING in the Latin Vulgate:

He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: an Elohim of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he (Deuteronomy 32:4).

The works of God are perfect, and all his ways are judgments: God is faithful and without any iniquity, he is just and right. (Douay-Rheims Version).

Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten Elohim that formed thee (Deuteronomy 32:18).
Thou hast forsaken the God that begot thee, and hast forgotten the Lord that created thee (Douay-Rheims Version).

For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges (Deuteronomy 32:31).

For our God is not as their gods: our enemies themselves are judges (Douay-Rheims Version).

For who is Elohim save JEHOVAH? or who is a rock save Elohim? (Psalm 18:31).
For who is God but JEHOVAH? or who is God but our God? (Douay-Rheims Version).

The conclusion of the matter is this: Peter is A STONE and Christ is the ROCK;

Ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to Elohim by Joshua the Christ (I St. Peter 2:5).
The Bible is the only weapon that a Christian has to defend against the attacks of Satan.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

More false teaching in the Latin Vulgate Bible / Roman Catholic Bible:

te lauds Virgin Mary worship
Since the beginning of time, Satan has exalted mother goddess worship over the worship of JEHOVAH. The humble virgin who gave birth to the Messiah had the common Jewish name of Miriam . . . not Maria or Mary!!


Egyptian goddess Isis breast feeding Horus.

Before the coming of the Messiah, every country except Israel was involved in perverted mother goddess worship.
The goddess was called Isis in Egypt, Aphrodite in Greece, Venus in Rome, Kali in India, Shing Moo in China, Kannon in Japan, Coatlicue in Mexico etc., etc.



Diana of the Ephesians.
The preaching of the Gospel of the Risen Christ was dealing a death blow to the mother goddess:

So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth(Acts 19:27).

This was a fulfillment of the great prophecy of Genesis chapter 3 where JEHOVAH promised that the seed of the woman would crush the serpent's head:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel (Genesis 3:15).

The Latin Vulgate Version changed the word HE to SHE:

I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel(Douay-Rheims Version).

When Miriam was visited by the angel Gabriel to announce the virgin birth of the Messiah, Gabriel said that she was highly favored of the Lord:

And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women (Luke 1:28).

The Latin Vulgate says that Miriam was full of grace:

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women(Latin Vulgate Version).

This gave rise to the false teaching of Mariolatry. Here is the Latin Rosary or prayer to Mary:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee;
blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

This is nothing but the old pagan mother goddess worship under a "Christian" mantle.


Madonna and Child by
Taddeo di Bartolo.

Before the coming of the Messiah, every country except Israel was involved in perverted mother goddess worship.
The goddess was called Isis in Egypt, Aphrodite in Greece, Venus in Rome, Kali in India, Shing Moo in China, Kannon in Japan, Coatlicue in Mexico etc., etc.
The Latin Vulgate Unmasked At Last
_______________
Do not ever use a Roman Catholic Bible! EVER! It's full of lies!