Former top General in Iraq blast Bush admin 4 creating Iraq Nightmare

[maineman]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/10/gen-sanchez-ass.html

I can hardly wait for the koolaid soaked Bush butt lickers to start assailing the patriotism of THIS fine general.

Honest to God....how many retired flag officers need to step up and slap you assholes across the face to get you to admit that this stupid stupid war is a idiotic endeavor?

"America is living a nightmare with no end in sight.”

but internet chickenhawks on here will claim that they know more about what is going on in Iraq than the former commander of our forces there.

You all make me so fucking sick I could puke.

 

[Doug]

I happen to agree with almost every sentence by the General. But the quetion is, is our objective in Iraq achieveable under some other strategy? If not, we have to admit defeat and get out -- which will be a HUGE victory to our enemies. If some change of strategy would work, let's have it. It is not clear from the article whether General Sanchez believes that the situation is retrievable -- and I would be interested in his comments on recent developments there, which look hopeful.

 

[maineman]

I happen to agree with almost every sentence by the General. But the quetion is, is our objective in Iraq achieveable under some other strategy? If not, we have to admit defeat and get out -- which will be a HUGE victory to our enemies. If some change of strategy would work, let's have it. It is not clear from the article whether General Sanchez believes that the situation is retrievable -- and I would be interested in his comments on recent developments there, which look hopeful.

I think his comments take into consideration the recent developments. He didn't make then last summer.

 

[Doug]

Since the latest developments appear quite significant, it would be interesting to hear his comments on them specifically.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Ex-Commander Blasts Iraq 'Nightmare'

By Robert Parry
October 12, 2007

Retired Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, who commanded U.S. forces in Iraq for the first year of the occupation, blamed “incompetence” by President George W. Bush’s national security team for creating a “nightmare” that could last far into the future.


Sanchez, who led coalition forces from June 2003 to June 2004, used an Oct. 12 speech to a conference of Military Reporters and Editors in Arlington, Virginia, to castigate nearly everyone connected to the Iraq War, including the U.S. news media, Congress, the State Department, the White House and the Pentagon.

“There has been a glaring, unfortunate display of incompetence in strategic leadership among our national leaders,” Sanchez said. “They have unquestionably been derelict in the performance of their duty. In my profession, these types of leaders would be immediately relieved or court-martialed.”

Though Sanchez did not criticize Bush by name, he left little doubt that he placed most of the blame on the administration’s top leadership, particularly the National Security Council which is led by the President and which was under the day-to-day direction of Condoleezza Rice until her elevation to Secretary of State in 2005.

Sanchez said that starting in July of 2003, the generals on the ground warned that the war could not be won by military means and required a coordinated strategy that brought to bear the full panoply of American power and influence.

“Any sequential solutions would lead to a prolonged conflict and increased resistance,” Sanchez said about these messages to Washington. “By neglect and incompetence at the National Security Council level, that is the path our political leaders chose and now America and more precisely the American military finds itself in an intractable situation.”......

“Continued manipulations and adjustments to our military strategy will not achieve victory,” Sanchez said in an apparent reference to Bush’s decision to "surge" U.S. troops this year. “The best we can do with this flawed approach is to stave off defeat.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/101207.html

 

[maineman]

Since the latest developments appear quite significant, it would be interesting to hear his comments on them specifically.

the latest developments appear quite significant, in large part, because the administration wants you to think they are quite significant.

Do you honestly think that when he says, "America is living a nightmare with no end in sight.” that he is not taking the "quite significant" recent developments into consideration and still arriving at that judgment?

 

[Alpha1]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/10/gen-sanchez-ass.html

I can hardly wait for the koolaid soaked Bush butt lickers to start assailing the patriotism of THIS fine general.

Honest to God....how many retired flag officers need to step up and slap you assholes across the face to get you to admit that this stupid stupid war is a idiotic endeavor?

"America is living a nightmare with no end in sight.”

but internet chickenhawks on here will claim that they know more about what is going on in Iraq than the former commander of our forces there.

You all make me so fucking sick I could puke.

But his role as commander in Iraq during the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal leaves General Sanchez vulnerable to criticism that that he is shifting the blame from himself and exacting revenge against an administration that replaced him as the top commander in the aftermath of the scandal and declined to nominate him for a fourth star, forcing his retirement.

Though he was cleared of wrongdoing in the abuse matter by an Army investigation, he nonetheless became a symbol, along with officials like L. Paul Bremer III , the chief administrator in Iraq, of the ineffective American leadership early in the occupation.

Questioned by reporters after his speech, he included the military and himself among those who made mistakes in Iraq, citing the failure to insist on a better post-invasion stabilization plan.


Sanchez’s military career ended in 2006 partly as fallout from the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal which erupted in 2004 under his command. In giving the Oct. 12 speech, Sanchez broke nearly a year of silence since he resigned from the Army, but he ducked a question about the Abu Ghraib scandal.

Asked after his remarks what strategy he favored, General Sanchez ticked off a series of steps — from promoting reconciliation among Iraq’s warring sectarian factions to building effective Iraqi army and police units — that closely paralleled the list of tasks frequently cited by the Bush administration.


----------------------
I don't think anyone will question his patriotism....

Yeah...he does sound pretty pissed off, don't he....Abu Ghraib, prisoner abuse? Losing a forth star ? Forced retirement ?

His strategy is pretty much the same as the 4 year old Bush strategy....yet he calls it flawed and misguided....? I don't get that ....

 

[maineman]

I can hardly wait for the koolaid soaked Bush butt lickers to start assailing the patriotism of THIS fine general.

and right on schedule:

Yeah...he does sound pretty pissed off, don't he....Abu Ghraib, prisoner abuse? Losing a forth star ? Forced retirement ?

His strategy is pretty much the same as the 4 year old Bush strategy....yet he calls it flawed and misguided....? I don't get that ....

 

[dilloduck]

I can hardly wait for the koolaid soaked Bush butt lickers to start assailing the patriotism of THIS fine general.

and right on schedule:

no one questioned his patriotism

 

[maineman]

no one questioned his patriotism

just his ethics and integrity. I guess that is perfectly acceptable when a distinquished flag officer dares to point out that the emporer is wearing no clothes.

 

[Alpha1]

Just adding a little context to the post....

Now, the ex-General is certainly entitled to his opinion of progress or lack of progress in the war....and he certainly was closer to it than us, and his responsibility for it....so his opinion carries some weight....he believes we can't win the war ... unusual conclusion for a military man to say that.....but if thats what he believes, thats what he believes....

"America is living a nightmare with no end in sight.”....nightmare?
No end in sight ? None that I can see in the near future....that part I can agree with....

And again...I don't believe anyone will question the man's patriotism...no matter how much you would like that to happen....

 

[maineman]

interesting though, isn't it? I have been saying the exact same thing as the general for quite some time, and my patriotism and my intelligence has been routinely questioned and denigrated..... by YOU, actually.

odd.

 

[maineman]

oh, and point of form: he is not an "ex-general", he is a "retired general"

 

[Gem]

Maineman,

I think you may need to exhale a bit. Your opening post was railing against people here who hadn't even said anything yet. You had the first word and you were already in need of a fainting couch before the first response had come in!

No one has questioned this man's patriotism, called him names, or "assailed" him in anyway and yet you are screaming about people here making you sick for things that you seem to be imagining they will say in the future.

You make a big point that we should listen to the people on the ground in Iraq...so you must have been horribly shocked and offended by liberals treatment of General Petraeus, correct? I haven't been here in awhile...so you may have...but did you come out here and scream about how moveon.org "assailed" the patriotism of that fine general? Did you scream at the people on the board to listen because Petraeus "know(s) more about what is going on in Iraq?"

I think it is VERY dangerous when people on either side of the political spectrum start screeching that anyone who questions someone you agree withs statements or actions that they must be questioning their patriotism. Its just pathetic. Republicans have done it. Democrats have done it. And you, Maineman...just did it in grand fashion!

No one here has questioned this man's patriotism. They have examined his background and...at worst...questioned his motives. And frankly, if you don't question the motives of every person who has a public forum and comes out to make a statement about an important issues...then you probably should just stop stressing and make life simple for yourself...if you are unwilling to question someone who is spouting the lines you agree with, just pull the straight ticket lever of your choice and get on with your life.

There is NOTHING wrong...with looking into Petraeus or Sanchez's background, military history, etc. and wondering about whether personal or political motives influenced their statements...a rational person can do this while still listening to what they have to say and weighing it against everything else that is going on. In fact, I'll restate that I believe it is CRUCIAL to think about these things...otherwise you are just a shill for your party...swallowing placidly everything they dish out.

 

[Alpha1]

interesting though, isn't it? I have been saying the exact same thing as the general for quite some time, and my patriotism and my intelligence has been routinely questioned and denigrated..... by YOU, actually.

odd.

The "retired" General criticizes the administration's prosecution of the war, not the war itself. He doesn't call Bush a liar, torturer, civil rights abuser,etc.....so the comparison is quite different....

 

[maineman]

he merely calls him incompetent...which obviously, you are perfectly OK with.

 

[Alpha1]

he merely calls him incompetent...which obviously, you are perfectly OK with.

I think the "prosecution of the war" is more in the Generals hands, in theater, as opposed to Bush....but as the saying goes, right or wrong, "The buck stops at the Oval Office".......too bad for Bush...but thats the way it is...

Bush wasn't piling up naked prisoners, was he ? And being the FAIR guy I am, he had no direct responsibility for that shit....but, ultimately, Bush gets the buck in the end....

 

[maineman]

I think the "prosecution of the war" is more in the Generals hands, in theater, as opposed to Bush....but as the saying goes, right or wrong, "The buck stops at the Oval Office".......too bad for Bush...but thats the way it is...

Bush wasn't piling up naked prisoners, was he ? And being the FAIR guy I am, he had no direct responsibility for that shit....but, ultimately, Bush gets the buck in the end....

odd that few republicans are willing to see him get it.

 

[Alpha1]

odd that few republicans are willing to see him get it.

HAHA...According to the polls, you're off the mark again....seems more than a few are dropping the whole enchilada at his doorstep....with alot of Democratic and media help.....and lets not forget the 'retired' generals...quite of few to date...

Bush is pretty much toast, barring a miracle in Iraq and a uturn in public thinking....

 

[actsnoblemartin]

you ever heard the expression, you catch more flies with honey then vinegar?

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/10/gen-sanchez-ass.html

I can hardly wait for the koolaid soaked Bush butt lickers to start assailing the patriotism of THIS fine general.

Honest to God....how many retired flag officers need to step up and slap you assholes across the face to get you to admit that this stupid stupid war is a idiotic endeavor?

"America is living a nightmare with no end in sight.”

but internet chickenhawks on here will claim that they know more about what is going on in Iraq than the former commander of our forces there.

You all make me so fucking sick I could puke.