For those who said forcing Americans to buy private insurance was Unconstitutional...

[Immanuel]

How do you get healthcare to all it the real question.

Unfortunately, the Democrat plan is not to get health care to all, but rather to force all to have health insurance even if it forces them out of their jobs and onto the streets just to pay the premiums.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Because it doesn't. It provides a voucher for senior to use to purchase their own health insurance, if they so choose.

It doesn't fine them if they opt out.

It converts their previous medicare payments into vouchers that can only be used for insurance. They can "opt out" but then they lose their benefits altogether. It's hard to miss the similarity between this and Obamacare as each as has the same intent - to push as many people as possible into the private insurance pool, at taxpayer expense. More corporate welfare.

There is actually a significant difference in that no one is being forced to use their own money to participate. Medicare exists, and is going to go bankrupt at some point if we do not make significant changes. this is far from an ideal solution, but it is an improvement over the present system.

 

[Avorysuds]

How do you get healthcare to all it the real question.

Wrong question.

No centralized government can get Health Care To All.

The proper question is: what is the role of government to foster a healthy economic climate so that more people are able to find jobs to support themselves now and to save for their future retirement?

Correct.

TM is playing a game saying "if you can get everyone Health care you fail so let’s do it my way." Of course her way does not get HC to all and past that can't even be sustained meaning in a short period of time most people will be without HC.

 

[dblack]

Unfortunately, the Democrat plan is not to get health care to all, but rather to force all to have health insurance

The point of this thread is that seems to be the goal of the Ryan plan as well.

 

[Immanuel]

Unfortunately, the Democrat plan is not to get health care to all, but rather to force all to have health insurance

The point of this thread is that seems to be the goal of the Ryan plan as well.

Maybe... I have not read even a synopsis of the Ryan Plan.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Since when are seniors forced to use medicare at all? It's a voluntary program.

I'm pretty sure that's not right. Paying into Medicare is not voluntary.

It is also available to everyone regardless of income, with no limits on spending per patient. I know seniors who do not participate because they use veterans benefits, yet they are still required to pay premiums for Medicare Plus because they are eligible.

Disclaimer: I might have the details of that wrong, I am relying on my memory of a conversation that is a few years old.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why aren't you saying that about Ryan's kill-Medicare plan?

Which forces seniors to buy private insurance...

No it isn't.

It is offering them a set amount of money that would be spent anyway to choose from various privately run but government funded health pools. They are not being forced to buy anything with their own money.

But you won't get a voucher if you didn't pay INTO Medicare for the required duration,

so it is your money.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So if a person takes their voucher and spends it instead of buying insurance what happens wehn they are rushed to the hospital and taken to the emergency room?

You really are an idiot.

You get a voucher than can only be used to buy insurance from a government approved pool, you can't use it to buy a new car.

 

[auditor0007]

Why aren't you saying that about Ryan's kill-Medicare plan?

Which forces seniors to buy private insurance...

Because they can choose not to purchase it. Well, actually most won't be able to afford it.

 

[B. Kidd]

How do you get healthcare to all it the real question.

Wrong question.

No centralized government can get Health Care To All.

The proper question is: what is the role of government to foster a healthy economic climate so that more people are able to find jobs to support themselves now and to save for their future retirement?

Correct.

TM is playing a game saying "if you can get everyone Health care you fail so let’s do it my way." Of course her way does not get HC to all and past that can't even be sustained meaning in a short period of time most people will be without HC.

TM is using the Lib's 2nd favorite tactic; that being the 'social justice' card.
Their 1st favorite tactic, the 'race' card; that just happens to coincide with the Prez being black, or 1/2 black.

 

[Truthmatters]

what happens under any of these policies when a person gets into some knid of accident (say a car accident) and they are taken to the hospital emergency room without any ID at all?

Does the hospital treat them or wait for confermation of their insurance status?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How do you get healthcare to all it the real question.

Show me someone in the US who does not have access to health care. As far as I can see everyone has it already, so getting the government in it to fix something that is not broken is a sign of a deficient intelligence.

 

[auditor0007]

Because it doesn't. It provides a voucher for senior to use to purchase their own health insurance, if they so choose.

It doesn't fine them if they opt out.

It converts their previous medicare payments into vouchers that can only be used for insurance. They can "opt out" but then they lose their benefits altogether. It's hard to miss the similarity between this and Obamacare as each as has the same intent - to push as many people as possible into the private insurance pool, at taxpayer expense. More corporate welfare.

I'd like to see the voucher turned into something they can use to purchase health care directly owithout having to buy insurance or saved in a health savings account for the future if they so choose.

Ultimately, this is can only be a transition plan to dismantle the entire thing altogether. We should privatize retirement and health care.

You really must want us to become a full blown socialist state then. Take away every safety net that has been established and just wait to see what happens. People who think like this, that the market can and should handle everything, and we should dispose of all the safety nets, well, you just aren't very bright. You are ideologues that actually believe things would work under such a system.

I'm just curious if you think that we should force people to pay for police protection under such a system. Who would derive the most benefit from police under your Utopian system? I'll give you a hint; it would be the few who benefited the most being protected from the masses. In otherwords, it would be a police state, your Utopia.

While the vast majority here may think like you, Thank God this board does not represent the bulk of America.

 

[auditor0007]

Ok then what happens to the people who opt out?

What does a emergency dr do when a patient is brought in without any knowledge of wether the person opted out or not?

They have to be treated if it is an emergency, just like they do now. Pass the buck.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It converts their previous medicare payments into vouchers that can only be used for insurance. They can "opt out" but then they lose their benefits altogether. It's hard to miss the similarity between this and Obamacare as each as has the same intent - to push as many people as possible into the private insurance pool, at taxpayer expense. More corporate welfare.

I'd like to see the voucher turned into something they can use to purchase health care directly owithout having to buy insurance or saved in a health savings account for the future if they so choose.

Ultimately, this is can only be a transition plan to dismantle the entire thing altogether. We should privatize retirement and health care.

You really must want us to become a full blown socialist state then. Take away every safety net that has been established and just wait to see what happens. People who think like this, that the market can and should handle everything, and we should dispose of all the safety nets, well, you just aren't very bright. You are ideologues that actually believe things would work under such a system.

I'm just curious if you think that we should force people to pay for police protection under such a system. Who would derive the most benefit from police under your Utopian system? I'll give you a hint; it would be the few who benefited the most being protected from the masses. In otherwords, it would be a police state, your Utopia.

While the vast majority here may think like you, Thank God this board does not represent the bulk of America.

Do you know what socialism is?

 

[auditor0007]

Ok then what happens to the people who opt out?

What does a emergency dr do when a patient is brought in without any knowledge of wether the person opted out or not?

They go to a charity hospital.

Under your preferred system: what happens when there are not enough providers to care for patients?

And who is going to fund all these "Charity Hospitals"? Do you think before you type?

 

[Truthmatters]

Ok then what happens to the people who opt out?

What does a emergency dr do when a patient is brought in without any knowledge of wether the person opted out or not?

They have to be treated if it is an emergency, just like they do now. Pass the buck.

Which is why the ONLY way to fix our system is to have EVERYONE covered.

 

[auditor0007]

Ok then what happens to the people who opt out?

What does a emergency dr do when a patient is brought in without any knowledge of wether the person opted out or not?

They go to a charity hospital.

Under your preferred system: what happens when there are not enough providers to care for patients?

So they die on the way to a hospital when there is one much closer?

What hospital? The make believe Charity Hospital suggested? It won't exist. We keep hearing how much healthcare costs; who do you think is going to fund a fucking charity hospital? And we'd have to have them throughout the country, every major metropolitan area, smaller towns and rural areas. Who's gonna fund the fucking Charity Hospital I ask again?

 

[Immanuel]

Ok then what happens to the people who opt out?

What does a emergency dr do when a patient is brought in without any knowledge of wether the person opted out or not?

They have to be treated if it is an emergency, just like they do now. Pass the buck.

Which is why the ONLY way to fix our system is to have EVERYONE covered.

Even it they are starving in order to pay your inflated premiums?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

They go to a charity hospital.

Under your preferred system: what happens when there are not enough providers to care for patients?

So they die on the way to a hospital when there is one much closer?

What hospital? The make believe Charity Hospital suggested? It won't exist. We keep hearing how much healthcare costs; who do you think is going to fund a fucking charity hospital? And we'd have to have them throughout the country, every major metropolitan area, smaller towns and rural areas. Who's gonna fund the fucking Charity Hospital I ask again?

I'm not sure what you are getting at. We already have County Hospitals. Who said anything about eliminating those hospitals?

Immie