For All Those Who Believe It Isn't Illegal to Be Racist, You Still Think So?

[AveryJarhman]

IM2 replied to Avery, "Yep. Racism is abuse, and victims of abuse in many cases do have anger issues. You just don't get it. Rap is not the problem."

My friend, do you see a problem with teens boys and adult men composing or admiring music informing our entire planet that black or American girls and women of African descent should be viewed as less than human creatures and HOES, THOTS or RATCHET females undeserving of being treated with basic human respect?

Recently, in the USMB Bull Ring I asked you a very similar question. As of this writing you have not replied.

​

Peace.

 

[Asclepias]

IM2 replied to Avery, "Yep. Racism is abuse, and victims of abuse in many cases do have anger issues. You just don't get it. Rap is not the problem."

My friend, do you see a problem with teens boys and adult men composing or admiring music informing our entire planet that black or American girls and women of African descent should be viewed as less than human creatures and HOES, THOTS or RATCHET females undeserving of being treated with basic human respect?

Recently, in the USMB Bull Ring I asked you a very similar question. As of this writing you have not replied.

View attachment 234266​

Peace.

Why do you say such stupid stuff? There are millions of songs about Black love and respect of women. Are you retarded or were you dropped on your head?

 

[AveryJarhman]

Why do you say such stupid stuff? There are millions of songs about Black love and respect of women. Are you retarded or were you dropped on your head?

 

[Asclepias]

Why do you say such stupid stuff? There are millions of songs about Black love and respect of women. Are you retarded or were you dropped on your head?

View attachment 234267

211 million views

 

[SweetSue92]

Nothing in that article indicated it is illegal to be racist. I have no idea why you posted this OP with that title and this article.

I have had several US Message Board members tell me that they can be as racist as they want and that being a racist is not illegal. I beg to differ as it would appear that the state of Washington has provided very clearly that malicious harassment which involves targeting anyone due to their actual or perceived race, color, ethnicity, religion, national original, etc. is punishable as a class c felony as well as civilly.

The fact that the FBI is now involved didn't clue you all in?

Being a racist in America is not illegal, and if they're merely stating an opinion, and you are coming here freely to hear it, such as on this forum, I am thinking WA state would lose that battle in the Supreme Court. They're merely stating an opinion and they do not deserve to be harassed and punished by the federal gov't for it. That is in fact the definition of a First Amendment violation.

However, and this is a very boldly stated however:

Their opinions are vile, disgusting and morally repugnant. The basement of this forum is not actually The Badlands and such. It's right here. This forum gives a much worse picture--much worse, I'm convinced--that what is really in the real world. It's like this: you see people walking around who are not racists? Yes. Every day.

But not here.

This forum is like lifting up the rocks to look at all the creepy crawlies underneath. You spend enough time doing that--looking at the creepy crawlies--you will begin to think that this is all there is. Or that we're all creepy crawlies at heart. People with every color of skin, too.

Not me. I can't afford that. I won't read their words and let their words infect me. Not white racists, a pox on all their houses. And not black racists either. Get behind me Satan, in the words of our Lord!

 

[Montrovant]

It is sad and shameful that people are actually here defending the legality of racism.

Do you prefer authoritarianism? Thought crime? Bad beliefs are covered by the same freedoms as good ones. Racism being legal doesn't mean it is good. It just means the government shouldn't be able to persecute people for what they believe. If the racists act on their racism, that's different.

It's easy to say that when you are white, but those of us who live with less freedom because of racism say racism is authoritarian.

It doesn't matter if someone is white, black, Asian, or some other race/ethnicity. The principle remains the same. I'm guessing the problem is that you are defining racism differently than I am; as actions rather than beliefs.

 

[OldLady]

The Aryan Brotherhood is a prison gang. Were all these guys in prison?

Sometimes they get out, ya know.

 

[Marion Morrison]

It is sad and shameful that people are actually here defending the legality of racism.

If racism was illegal, you would be under the jail, numbnuts.

I defend your right to be free, and as stupid and racist as you wanna be.

 

[OldLady]

I originally posted about this incident in Current Events (Alleged white supremacists start brawl at Lynnwood bar; 9 arrested) however the fact that the FBI is now involved caused me to post an update to the Race Relations Forum

Suspects in Lynnwood hate-crime attack appear in court

...
"There is overwhelming evidence that malicious harassment is appropriate," said Snohomish County Deputy Prosecutor, Tim Geraghty, to the judge, regarding the case with a Bothell man.

The state pointed the judge to an officer’s report after he watched surveillance video from the Rec Room Tavern that apparently captured the incident.

Four of the eight arrested are from the Pacific Northwest, including, one man from Bothell and another from Tacoma.

One of the defendants, Nathaniel Woodell said he is a musician from out of town and not a part of the group involved.

He wasn't the only one who told the judge he's not a part of a hate group.

"I was not involved in that incident, I was just sitting at a table," said Woodell to the judge. "I have a son and a home I will lose if I don't make a payment on."

Each of the eight defendant's police paperwork lists them as having a gang affiliation with the Aryan Brotherhood.

The Sheriff's office said it is partnering with the FBI to ensure the strongest sentencing possible.

It also believes the group was here for a rally to mark the anniversary of the death of white supremacist leader from Whidbey Island.

Eight people appeared in court today, but two cases were continued until tomorrow for their bail hearings.​

Their mouths started a brawl. That's inciting riot or something, isn't it? As well as garden variety assault?
We all know the FBI follows hate groups. They certainly know about the Brotherhood. They're all convicted felons. A coworker's grandson who was in prison in CA was pretty much "forced" to join it while he was doing his bid. He had a big stinkin' tattoo right on the front of his neck and it cost him a fortune to disguise it. Looked like hell. He's not racist at all.

 

[Marion Morrison]

There mouths started a brawl. That's inciting riot or something, isn't it? As well as garden variety assault?
We all know the FBI follows hate groups. They certainly know about the Brotherhood. They're all convicted felons. A coworker's grandson who was in prison in CA was pretty much "forced" to join it while he was doing his bid. He had a big stinkin' tattoo right on the front of his neck and it cost him a fortune to disguise it. Looked like hell. He's not racist at all.

Ahem.."Their" ..

 

[OldLady]

I originally posted about this incident in Current Events (Alleged white supremacists start brawl at Lynnwood bar; 9 arrested) however the fact that the FBI is now involved caused me to post an update to the Race Relations Forum

Suspects in Lynnwood hate-crime attack appear in court

...
"There is overwhelming evidence that malicious harassment is appropriate," said Snohomish County Deputy Prosecutor, Tim Geraghty, to the judge, regarding the case with a Bothell man.

The state pointed the judge to an officer’s report after he watched surveillance video from the Rec Room Tavern that apparently captured the incident.

Four of the eight arrested are from the Pacific Northwest, including, one man from Bothell and another from Tacoma.

One of the defendants, Nathaniel Woodell said he is a musician from out of town and not a part of the group involved.

He wasn't the only one who told the judge he's not a part of a hate group.

"I was not involved in that incident, I was just sitting at a table," said Woodell to the judge. "I have a son and a home I will lose if I don't make a payment on."

Each of the eight defendant's police paperwork lists them as having a gang affiliation with the Aryan Brotherhood.

The Sheriff's office said it is partnering with the FBI to ensure the strongest sentencing possible.

It also believes the group was here for a rally to mark the anniversary of the death of white supremacist leader from Whidbey Island.

Eight people appeared in court today, but two cases were continued until tomorrow for their bail hearings.​

Their mouths started a brawl. That's inciting riot or something, isn't it? As well as garden variety assault?
We all know the FBI follows hate groups. They certainly know about the Brotherhood. They're all convicted felons. A coworker's grandson who was in prison in CA was pretty much "forced" to join it while he was doing his bid. He had a big stinkin' tattoo right on the front of his neck and it cost him a fortune to disguise it. Looked like hell. He's not racist at all.

Ahem.."Their" ..

I fixed it already.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I originally posted about this incident in Current Events (Alleged white supremacists start brawl at Lynnwood bar; 9 arrested) however the fact that the FBI is now involved caused me to post an update to the Race Relations Forum

Suspects in Lynnwood hate-crime attack appear in court

...
"There is overwhelming evidence that malicious harassment is appropriate," said Snohomish County Deputy Prosecutor, Tim Geraghty, to the judge, regarding the case with a Bothell man.

The state pointed the judge to an officer’s report after he watched surveillance video from the Rec Room Tavern that apparently captured the incident.

Four of the eight arrested are from the Pacific Northwest, including, one man from Bothell and another from Tacoma.

One of the defendants, Nathaniel Woodell said he is a musician from out of town and not a part of the group involved.

He wasn't the only one who told the judge he's not a part of a hate group.

"I was not involved in that incident, I was just sitting at a table," said Woodell to the judge. "I have a son and a home I will lose if I don't make a payment on."

Each of the eight defendant's police paperwork lists them as having a gang affiliation with the Aryan Brotherhood.

The Sheriff's office said it is partnering with the FBI to ensure the strongest sentencing possible.

It also believes the group was here for a rally to mark the anniversary of the death of white supremacist leader from Whidbey Island.

Eight people appeared in court today, but two cases were continued until tomorrow for their bail hearings.​

Their mouths started a brawl. That's inciting riot or something, isn't it? As well as garden variety assault?
We all know the FBI follows hate groups. They certainly know about the Brotherhood. They're all convicted felons. A coworker's grandson who was in prison in CA was pretty much "forced" to join it while he was doing his bid. He had a big stinkin' tattoo right on the front of his neck and it cost him a fortune to disguise it. Looked like hell. He's not racist at all.

Ahem.."Their" ..

I fixed it already.

Atta girl.

 

[jillian]

I originally posted about this incident in Current Events (Alleged white supremacists start brawl at Lynnwood bar; 9 arrested) however the fact that the FBI is now involved caused me to post an update to the Race Relations Forum

Suspects in Lynnwood hate-crime attack appear in court

...
"There is overwhelming evidence that malicious harassment is appropriate," said Snohomish County Deputy Prosecutor, Tim Geraghty, to the judge, regarding the case with a Bothell man.

The state pointed the judge to an officer’s report after he watched surveillance video from the Rec Room Tavern that apparently captured the incident.

Four of the eight arrested are from the Pacific Northwest, including, one man from Bothell and another from Tacoma.

One of the defendants, Nathaniel Woodell said he is a musician from out of town and not a part of the group involved.

He wasn't the only one who told the judge he's not a part of a hate group.

"I was not involved in that incident, I was just sitting at a table," said Woodell to the judge. "I have a son and a home I will lose if I don't make a payment on."

Each of the eight defendant's police paperwork lists them as having a gang affiliation with the Aryan Brotherhood.

The Sheriff's office said it is partnering with the FBI to ensure the strongest sentencing possible.

It also believes the group was here for a rally to mark the anniversary of the death of white supremacist leader from Whidbey Island.

Eight people appeared in court today, but two cases were continued until tomorrow for their bail hearings.​

that doesn't make it illegal to be racist.

do you not understand what a hate CRIME is? It isn't your ignorant ass thoughts. it's hurting another human being while spewing those thoughts.

poor widdle whiny trumpkin

 

[Dogmaphobe]

It doesn't matter if someone is white, black, Asian, or some other race/ethnicity. The principle remains the same. I'm guessing the problem is that you are defining racism differently than I am; as actions rather than beliefs.

IM2 defines it in such a way that he cannot possibly be considered one.

How convenient for him.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Being a racist in America is not illegal, and if they're merely stating an opinion, and you are coming here freely to hear it, such as on this forum, I am thinking WA state would lose that battle in the Supreme Court. They're merely stating an opinion and they do not deserve to be harassed and punished by the federal gov't for it. That is in fact the definition of a First Amendment violation.

The second half of your original comment not withstanding, what you're describing above is not quite the situation.

I have often stated here on U.S. Message Board that no one cares if a person is a racist unless and until they decide to put their racist beliefs into action and cause harm to another person. However many of the respondants erroneously believe that doing so is not a violation of any criminal code, althought I have cited an applicable USC which describes imprisonment as punishment for a violation of the specific law thereby indicating that the violation is of a criminal code.

As far as the Supreme Court, I'm assuming you're referring to the SCOTUS and not the WA State Supreme Court due to the freedom of speech protections in the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution? The WA State legislators addressed this when they drafted the statute so it is expected that it would survive any constitutional challenge, however posting personal opinions on a message board is not a Constitutional freedom of speech issue. Nor does participating in a message board mean that a poster must endure unwanted, vulgar, racist and/or bigoted comments or persistant contact from others.

Having racist beliefs and opinions alone of course is not actionable per se, but my experiences have been that most racists don't tolerate being impotent for very long. They can't stand and resent being muzzled and generally it's only a matter of time before they have to act out and they do, crossing right over into the very terrority that is outlined in the WA state harassment and other statutes.

I haven't read who initiated contact but the fact that the Sheriff has indicated that he wants this prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and the FBI is now involved indicates that they are looking at pursuing federal hate crime charges against the defendants as well as the WA state charges.

Irrespective of the wording of my article title & questions, the point is that certain behaviors are no longer tolerated in polite society. I'd imagine that 50 years from now, society looking back at our time will be dumbfounded that people behaved in such a manner, let alone that it was "barely" or "technically" legal.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Nothing in that article indicated it is illegal to be racist. I have no idea why you posted this OP with that title and this article.

I have had several US Message Board members tell me that they can be as racist as they want and that being a racist is not illegal. I beg to differ as it would appear that the state of Washington has provided very clearly that malicious harassment which involves targeting anyone due to their actual or perceived race, color, ethnicity, religion, national original, etc. is punishable as a class c felony as well as civilly.

The fact that the FBI is now involved didn't clue you all in?

Hate speech is not the same as hate crimes, such as crimes committed motivated by racial animus, threats (assault), or other violent acts racially motivated.

Hate speech is entitled to Constitutional protections – those protections end when hate speech advocates for imminent lawlessness or violence.

Consequently, being racist is not illegal provided the racist has not crossed the line into actual criminality.

Malicious harassment as defined by Washington State law would be a form of assault, where the racist has crossed that line into actual criminality, exposing him to prosecution.

But it is the criminal act being prosecuted motivated by racism, not the individual’s racism absent the criminal act.

The malicious harassment statute does not require that the person actually take action, only that they threaten to do so.

I've seen threats of this nature here on U.S. Message Board, most of which were surrounded by some rather rabid racist and bigoted comments.

A threat is an action. Threatening someone absent racism is still, in some cases, a crime.

Racism itself is not illegal anywhere in the US that I know of. Anyone can be a bigot, but they cannot break the law in expressing or acting upon that bigotry.

People threaten to do things all of the time, but what is it that causes a law enforcement agency to take the threat seriously?

 

[SweetSue92]

Being a racist in America is not illegal, and if they're merely stating an opinion, and you are coming here freely to hear it, such as on this forum, I am thinking WA state would lose that battle in the Supreme Court. They're merely stating an opinion and they do not deserve to be harassed and punished by the federal gov't for it. That is in fact the definition of a First Amendment violation.

The second half of your original comment not withstanding, what you're describing above is not quite the situation.

I have often stated here on U.S. Message Board that no one cares if a person is a racist unless and until they decide to put their racist beliefs into action and cause harm to another person. However many of the respondants erroneously believe that doing so is not a violation of any criminal code, althought I have cited an applicable USC which describes imprisonment as punishment for a violation of the specific law thereby indicating that the violation is of a criminal code.

As far as the Supreme Court, I'm assuming you're referring to the SCOTUS and not the WA State Supreme Court due to the freedom of speech protections in the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution? The WA State legislators addressed this when they drafted the statute so it is expected that it would survive any constitutional challenge, however posting personal opinions on a message board is not a Constitutional freedom of speech issue. Nor does participating in a message board mean that a poster must endure unwanted, vulgar, racist and/or bigoted comments or persistant contact from others.

Having racist beliefs and opinions alone of course is not actionable per se, but my experiences have been that most racists don't tolerate being impotent for very long. They can't stand and resent being muzzled and generally it's only a matter of time before they have to act out and they do, crossing right over into the very terrority that is outlined in the WA state harassment and other statutes.

I haven't read who initiated contact but the fact that the Sheriff has indicated that he wants this prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and the FBI is now involved indicates that they are looking at pursuing federal hate crime charges against the defendants as well as the WA state charges.

Irrespective of the wording of my article title & questions, the point is that certain behaviors are no longer tolerated in polite society. I'd imagine that 50 years from now, society looking back at our time will be dumbfounded that people behaved in such a manner, let alone that it was "barely" or "technically" legal.

Yes but what is "harm"? These days if I simply don't like your opinion people call that violence from which they need a safe space. It's ridiculous. They say this even if they have the freedom not to attend the speech or log into the forum. Even if the speech is repulsive, that's not harm. Unless you're counting that freedom of speech is harmed, then it is, I agree.

It might be true that most racists aren't happy being "impotent" for long, but that's immaterial. They have a right to their vile opinions. They even have a right to speak and write their vile opinions, much as I think they pollute the general air and I don't want to read them.

I don't want to turn into Europe where simply speaking or writing them is a hate crime.

 

[OldLady]

Being a racist in America is not illegal, and if they're merely stating an opinion, and you are coming here freely to hear it, such as on this forum, I am thinking WA state would lose that battle in the Supreme Court. They're merely stating an opinion and they do not deserve to be harassed and punished by the federal gov't for it. That is in fact the definition of a First Amendment violation.

The second half of your original comment not withstanding, what you're describing above is not quite the situation.

I have often stated here on U.S. Message Board that no one cares if a person is a racist unless and until they decide to put their racist beliefs into action and cause harm to another person. However many of the respondants erroneously believe that doing so is not a violation of any criminal code, althought I have cited an applicable USC which describes imprisonment as punishment for a violation of the specific law thereby indicating that the violation is of a criminal code.

As far as the Supreme Court, I'm assuming you're referring to the SCOTUS and not the WA State Supreme Court due to the freedom of speech protections in the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution? The WA State legislators addressed this when they drafted the statute so it is expected that it would survive any constitutional challenge, however posting personal opinions on a message board is not a Constitutional freedom of speech issue. Nor does participating in a message board mean that a poster must endure unwanted, vulgar, racist and/or bigoted comments or persistant contact from others.

Having racist beliefs and opinions alone of course is not actionable per se, but my experiences have been that most racists don't tolerate being impotent for very long. They can't stand and resent being muzzled and generally it's only a matter of time before they have to act out and they do, crossing right over into the very terrority that is outlined in the WA state harassment and other statutes.

I haven't read who initiated contact but the fact that the Sheriff has indicated that he wants this prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and the FBI is now involved indicates that they are looking at pursuing federal hate crime charges against the defendants as well as the WA state charges.

Irrespective of the wording of my article title & questions, the point is that certain behaviors are no longer tolerated in polite society. I'd imagine that 50 years from now, society looking back at our time will be dumbfounded that people behaved in such a manner, let alone that it was "barely" or "technically" legal.

Yes but what is "harm"? These days if I simply don't like your opinion people call that violence from which they need a safe space. It's ridiculous. They say this even if they have the freedom not to attend the speech or log into the forum. Even if the speech is repulsive, that's not harm. Unless you're counting that freedom of speech is harmed, then it is, I agree.

It might be true that most racists aren't happy being "impotent" for long, but that's immaterial. They have a right to their vile opinions. They even have a right to speak and write their vile opinions, much as I think they pollute the general air and I don't want to read them.

I don't want to turn into Europe where simply speaking or writing them is a hate crime.

It might be true that most racists aren't happy being "impotent" for long, but that's immaterial.
Actually, that is the entire reason why some people think hate speech should be kept out of the public sphere.
Give them their heads and they'll be organizing and putting their adherents up for election and giving uninformed people lots of fake "facts" that sway their view of minorities in a negative light. That leads to more "below the surface" discrimination and the types of negative interactions that keep the race struggle active.
No one can stop someone from having an opinion and I don't think they should be punished for their ideas, but I am wholly in favor of kicking over their soapboxes. This country has taken the 1st Amendment too far and it is what is truly unravelling the civility of our country.

 

[katsteve2012]

IM2 replied to Avery, "Yep. Racism is abuse, and victims of abuse in many cases do have anger issues. You just don't get it. Rap is not the problem."

My friend, do you see a problem with teens boys and adult men composing or admiring music informing our entire planet that black or American girls and women of African descent should be viewed as less than human creatures and HOES, THOTS or RATCHET females undeserving of being treated with basic human respect?

Recently, in the USMB Bull Ring I asked you a very similar question. As of this writing you have not replied.

View attachment 234266​

Peace.

Why do you say such stupid stuff? There are millions of songs about Black love and respect of women. Are you retarded or were you dropped on your head?

He(or she)hates black people. Particulary black women. That is obvious.

And if, by some ridiculous chance he or she happens to actually be black, self hate is the worst kind of affliction.

 

[IM2]

It doesn't matter if someone is white, black, Asian, or some other race/ethnicity. The principle remains the same. I'm guessing the problem is that you are defining racism differently than I am; as actions rather than beliefs.

IM2 defines it in such a way that he cannot possibly be considered one.

How convenient for him.

I cannot be a racist because I am not a racist.