Fly the DEI Skies: United plane loses external panel mid-flight

[Weatherman2020]

Funny how Boeing and United started hiring by skin pigmentation rather than skill and shortly after safety issues started skyrocketing.

Almost makes you think people should get jobs based upon skill. I know. Crazy talk.

United plane apparently loses external panel mid-flight after taking off from SFO, officials say

Another United flight experienced issues after taking off from SFO. Officials say this time a Boeing 737-800 plane landed in Oregon with a missing external panel.

abc7news.com

 

[JoeB131]

Funny how Boeing and United started hiring by skin pigmentation rather than skill and shortly after safety issues started skyrocketing.

Almost makes you think people should get jobs based upon skill. I know. Crazy talk.

Gee, seems to me it has a lot more to do with Boeing moving all their manufacturing down to Right to Work Red States, because Cleetus and Billy-Bob don't need them no union and they could be paid less.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Gee, seems to me it has a lot more to do with Boeing moving all their manufacturing down to Right to Work Red States, because Cleetus and Billy-Bob don't need them no union and they could be paid less.

So DEI.

 

[para bellum]

737 is built in Renton, and that's a union shop...

 

[JoeB131]

So DEI.

Nope, NON UNION.

Which you guys were fine with.

737 is built in Renton, and that's a union shop...

That's nice. They've also had problems with 777's, which are built in SC.

But it's more than that. It's the outsourcing of parts to the cheapest subcontractor.

How Boeing dropped the ball on air safety

The company has been plagued by accidents and crashes that have hurt its once-golden reputation

theweek.com

Boeing's "reputation for safety and excellence was such that people used to say, 'If it’s not Boeing, I’m not going' — and actually mean it," James Surowiecki wrote for The Atlantic. But while Boeing historically had a culture focused on pristine engineering, a corporate merger in the 1990s "turned it from a company that was relentlessly focused on product to one more focused on profit," Surowiecki argued.

In the past, "The people who dictated [the company's direction] were the engineers. In the post-merger Boeing, the people who did so were more likely to be accountants," Surowiecki added. As a result of this profit-driving, the company has been outsourcing large portions of its productions, even though building airplanes "requires ... a willingness to spend freely on reliability and safety, and a culture that tolerates the reporting of mistakes," he concluded.


Many critics of the company's culture "see Boeing's recent production errors as evidence the company hasn't improved in the most important measure: making planes safer," Douglas MacMillan and Michael Laris wrote for The Washington Post. "You're still building unsafe airplanes," Ed Pierson, a former manager at Boeing's 737 factory, told the Post. Pierson added that the main problem at his worksite was that "poor factory conditions posed threats to production quality."

 

[para bellum]

That's nice. They've also had problems with 777's, which are built in SC.

Nope. 777 is built in Everett.

Only 787's are built in Charleston. 787's were also built in Everett from 2011-2021, along with 747 and 767. That's the widebody plant.

All 787 production is now in Charleston, but there is still a lot of production of parts and sub-assemblies in the Northwest.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope. 777 is built in Everett.

Only 787's are built in Charleston. 787's were also built in Everett from 2011-2021, along with 747 and 767. That's the widebody plant.

All 787 production is now in Charleston, but there is still a lot of production of parts and sub-assemblies in the Northwest.

Go back

Read the article in Post 5.

Have someone explain the big words to you, because I have no time to deal with stupid people.


DEI hasn't caused these problems, CORPORATE GREED DID.

 

[para bellum]

Go back

Read the article in Post 5.

Have someone explain the big words to you, because I have no time to deal with stupid people.


DEI hasn't caused these problems, CORPORATE GREED DID.

Maybe you should go back and read what I actually posted. I never claimed that DEI caused anything.

And maybe you should stop posting about Boeing until you understand a little more about which planes are built in which plants. You are trying to blame non-union labor for Boeing's problems, but you are just talking out of your ass.

The only non-union Boeing plant is the one in Charleston, and they have built only 787. But 787 is not exclusive to Charleston, about half of them were built in Everett.

All Boeing plants in Washington State, and all Tier 1 suppliers are closed union shops. You can't work in any of those shops if you do not join the union. The Gresham, OR plant is also a union shop, they build the vertical stab for the 787.

The agreement to build the Charleston plant was part of the contract negotiations between the IAM&AW and Boeing back in the late 90's or early 2000's. Boeing committed to building the new lines for the next generation 737's in Renton, do part of the 787 production in Everett, and give wage and benefit increases to the union workers. The union agreed not to strike over the Charleston plant.

The union reneged on that deal. They went to Obama's NLRB and charged Boeing with violating the National Labor Relations Act over the production in Charleston. They ultimately dropped the complaint after they reached a new contract, but it left a sour taste with management.

Boeing's problems can't be attributed to DEI OR non-union labor. Quality is about process, it is not about people. Much of what it going on is poor maintenence of older aircraft, and that is the responsibility of the operator.

While I hate speculating on specific problems, the recent 787 incident sounds a lot like an ADIRU glitch. Those are becoming more common due to the increased dependence on automation. Airbus has had a few of those too, Quantas 72 being one of the more notorious examples.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Funny how Boeing and United started hiring by skin pigmentation rather than skill and shortly after safety issues started skyrocketing.

Funny how the racist right wingers sieze upon this without learning a single fking other thing about any of it, then parade it around like they discovered electricity. Low IQ bigots.

 

[para bellum]

As far as the DEI hiring policies and aerospace, those companies have to commit to additional training if they are going to pass over a more qualified person in favor of a DEI hire. That's all.

It does not matter what color of skin the guy has that changes the wheel on the jet. It matters that the wheel change is correctly done, and properly inspected before the jet goes back into passenger service.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Funny how the racist right wingers sieze upon this without learning a single fking other thing about any of it, then parade it around like they discovered electricity. Low IQ bigots.

SEIZED!

Funny how you morons hate people talking about the results of your racist agendas.

 

[JoeB131]

Maybe you should go back and read what I actually posted. I never claimed that DEI caused anything.

And maybe you should stop posting about Boeing until you understand a little more about which planes are built in which plants. You are trying to blame non-union labor for Boeing's problems, but you are just talking out of your ass.

Quit sucking corporate dick.

They aren't going to love you any more.

 

[para bellum]

Quit sucking corporate dick.

They aren't going to love you any more.

Dude, you got issues...

 

[JoeB131]

Dude, you got issues...

No issues at all. I just see the Airlines and Boeing constantly screwing workers and consumers to benefit investors, and now that shit is going south, they are trying to blame DEI policies for their greedy shortcuts that are clearly having bad results (although nothing fatal- yet.)

And you keep being a good little corporate troll talking about a "bad taste in management's mouth".

 

[para bellum]

No issues at all. I just see the Airlines and Boeing constantly screwing workers and consumers to benefit investors, and now that shit is going south, they are trying to blame DEI policies for their greedy shortcuts that are clearly having bad results (although nothing fatal- yet.)

And you keep being a good little corporate troll talking about a "bad taste in management's mouth".

I have seen no comments from the airlines or Boeing blaming DEI policies on anything.

You grossly overstate the amount of Boeing work that has gone to non-union shops.

Of all the Boeing planes flying, there is probably less than 1/2 of 1% non-union content.

You asked in the other thread so I will answer here- that AA 777 that made the emergency landing at LAX is 23 years old. It was built in Everett like all 777's, and the emergency landing was due to a low tire pressure alarm which is a maintenance issue...

 

[JoeB131]

I have seen no comments from the airlines or Boeing blaming DEI policies on anything.

You grossly overstate the amount of Boeing work that has gone to non-union shops.

Of all the Boeing planes flying, there is probably less than 1/2 of 1% non-union content.

You asked in the other thread so I will answer here- that AA 777 that made the emergency landing at LAX is 23 years old. It was built in Everett like all 777's, and the emergency landing was due to a low tire pressure alarm which is a maintenance issue...

still doesn't take away from the fact that Boeing has relied on outsourcing and non-union parts to maintain these aircraft. In another thread, I pointed out that in 2019, Boeing wanted to eliminate 900 Quality inspectors, until the union fought like hell to keep that from happening.

Boeing to add more inspectors and let airlines oversee factory work

In response to a fuselage blowout on an Alaska Airlines flight, Boeing is adding new quality control measures.

www.seattletimes.com

Now, they are in Ass-covering mode and hiring more inspectors.

I don't exempt the Airlines, they are just as bad. But just like it took 9/11 to finally get them to take security seriously, it's probably going to take a major crash for them to start taking quality control seriously.

 

[surada]

Maybe you should go back and read what I actually posted. I never claimed that DEI caused anything.

And maybe you should stop posting about Boeing until you understand a little more about which planes are built in which plants. You are trying to blame non-union labor for Boeing's problems, but you are just talking out of your ass.

The only non-union Boeing plant is the one in Charleston, and they have built only 787. But 787 is not exclusive to Charleston, about half of them were built in Everett.

All Boeing plants in Washington State, and all Tier 1 suppliers are closed union shops. You can't work in any of those shops if you do not join the union. The Gresham, OR plant is also a union shop, they build the vertical stab for the 787.

The agreement to build the Charleston plant was part of the contract negotiations between the IAM&AW and Boeing back in the late 90's or early 2000's. Boeing committed to building the new lines for the next generation 737's in Renton, do part of the 787 production in Everett, and give wage and benefit increases to the union workers. The union agreed not to strike over the Charleston plant.

The union reneged on that deal. They went to Obama's NLRB and charged Boeing with violating the National Labor Relations Act over the production in Charleston. They ultimately dropped the complaint after they reached a new contract, but it left a sour taste with management.

Boeing's problems can't be attributed to DEI OR non-union labor. Quality is about process, it is not about people. Much of what it going on is poor maintenence of older aircraft, and that is the responsibility of the operator.

While I hate speculating on specific problems, the recent 787 incident sounds a lot like an ADIRU glitch. Those are becoming more common due to the increased dependence on automation. Airbus has had a few of those too, Quantas 72 being one of the more notorious examples.

Quality is about process..

Charleston's management is from Missouri.

The whistle-blower who just died spilled the beans.

 

[para bellum]

Quality is about process..

Charleston's management is from Missouri.

The whistle-blower who just died spilled the beans.

Yeah, I saw that too. St. Louis is BMAC (Boeing Military Air Craft). Today it's called the Defense and Space division.

That's mainly fighter jets and conversions (mostly tankers like KC-46). The standards and processes for military are a little bit looser, because the aircraft are not carrying civilian commercial passengers. The military assumes more risk by nature than normal commercial passengers.

So I can understand what he thought of moving managers from St. Louis to Charleston, and I believe what he was saying that they didn't understand the processes that were in place for the 787.

 

[surada]

Yeah, I saw that too. St. Louis is BMAC (Boeing Military Air Craft). Today it's called the Defense and Space division.

That's mainly fighter jets and conversions (mostly tankers like KC-46). The standards and processes for military are a little bit looser, because the aircraft are not carrying civilian commercial passengers. The military assumes more risk by nature than normal commercial passengers.

So I can understand what he thought of moving managers from St. Louis to Charleston, and I believe what he was saying that they didn't understand the processes that were in place for the 787.

No question you understand this far better than I do.

 

[para bellum]

No question you understand this far better than I do.

I spent 42 years in aerospace in one capacity or another. The last 17 years was running my own company.

People make mistakes. That's a given. The process can't rely on always having super-smart people never getting it wrong. It has to recognize that error will always happen, and it has to catch the error before it goes out the door. That's how you measure a good process- 100% of error is caught. Anything less than that is unacceptable.

Implicit in that is you can never punish error. That only incentivizes people to hide their mistakes. People have to be unafraid of mistakes if you want a quality process to work.