Florist Sued for Refusing Service to Gay Couple Pens Defiant Letter Rejecting Gov’t Settlement Offer

[Nosmo King]

A customer wanting beer or wine in a store that does not stock beer and wine is not suffering discrimination. A kosher butcher does not stock bacon, but anyone wanting bacon in his shop came to the wrong butcher.

But anyone in that kosher butcher shop can buy any of his goods and he cannot refuse their patronage, so long as they buy what he has to sell.

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

More appropriately the sign should read:

"Due to our love and faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ, we refuse to love our neighbor as we would love ourselves."

or

"Because we believe in the message of Jesus Christ who said "This I now command you that you love your brother as yourself", we refuse to serve faggots."

 

[Skylar]

A customer wanting beer or wine in a store that does not stock beer and wine is not suffering discrimination. A kosher butcher does not stock bacon, but anyone wanting bacon in his shop came to the wrong butcher.

But anyone in that kosher butcher shop can buy any of his goods and he cannot refuse their patronage, so long as they buy what he has to sell.

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

That doesn't resolve the issue anymore than placing a sign on the door 'whites only lunch counter'.

But it does provide exquisite evidence against any proprietor who denies service to gays when they file a PA lawsuit.

 

[PratchettFan]

Why is a muslim owned convenience store not forced to sell beer and wine? Why are they allowed to discriminate against their customers who choose to consume beer and wine?

Because you are not discriminating when you don't sell something to everyone. It is only when you do sell something but refuse to sell it to some people because of what they are when discrimination comes in.

Wrong, the grocer who sells only halal is refusing to do business with non-muslims. His store may be the most convenient so by refusing to carry what they need he is forcing them to go farther to get their food.

I know it sounds like a strech, but its not. Religious freedom is either part of our freedom or it isn't. The rules apply to everyone or no one.

Wrong. A customer wanting beer or wine in a store that does not stock beer and wine is not suffering discrimination. A kosher butcher does not stock bacon, but anyone wanting bacon in his shop came to the wrong butcher.

But anyone in that kosher butcher shop can buy any of his goods and he cannot refuse their patronage, so long as they buy what he has to sell.

You are making my point. A florist who only wants to sell to heterosexuals should be able to do that. Would it be ok if she had a sign in the window that said "Christians only". Before you answer remember you just said it was Ok for the butcher to say "kosher only".

Perhaps you don't understand the terms here. "Kosher" refers to how the meat is prepared, not who is buying it. A butcher who only sells kosher meat is not discriminating. If the butcher will only sell to Jews, that is discriminating.

 

[dblack]

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

Again, this is not how the First Amendment works - though it is a widely-held misconception. The First Amendment doesn't guarantee that anything you do in the name of your religion will remain legal. It protects religious people from laws that specifically target them because of their religion. Laws against discrimination target anyone doing the discriminating, regardless of their religion.

If you really think that's how the First Amendment works, how would you handle a religion that considers paying taxes blasphemy?

 

[Skylar]

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

Again, this is not how the First Amendment works - though it is a widely-held misconception. The First Amendment doesn't guarantee that anything you do in the name of your religion will remain legal. It protects religious people from laws that specifically target them because of their religion. Laws against discrimination target anyone doing the discriminating, regardless of their religion.

If you really think that's how the First Amendment works, how would you handle a religion that considers paying taxes blasphemy?

I think they get it. But they're angling toward a Christian Sovereign Citizen argument. Where laws only apply to them when they agree that they do.

 

[PratchettFan]

Artistic freedom is absolute. No one has a civil right to the artistic creations of another.

A bakery has the obligation to sell its baked goods to anyone who walks through the door.

A florist has the obligation to sell flowers to anyone who walks through the door. In all cases this is exactly what happened. No one was denied service. What they were denied was the talent of the decorator and floral designer and they were never entitled to that.

I don't agree that a business has an obligation to sell to "anyone who walks in the door". Does a restaurant have an obligation to serve a person who comes in the door smelling like a sewer and tracking shit across the floor? Does a baker have an obligation to sell to a person who comes in cursing and threatening the other customers? Does a convenience store have an obligation to sell to a guy who pushes the owner and calls him insulting names? AND, does a muslim grocery store have an obligation to sell kosher food to jews?

this discussion always centers on gays, but it has much more far reaching implications.

I don't know where you are but where I am someone who comes in smelling like a sewer tracking shit on the floor is a customer and if they have money to pay they will be served. Cursing and threatening others is disorderly behavior as if physically touching and insulting the owner. A muslim grocery doesn't sell kosher to anyone not just jews. But since you brought it up a halal grocery store is obligated to sell halal to an infidel if they have the money to pay and can't say we don't sell our halal food to infidels.

When a homosexual goes into a bakery and those brownies look yummy, that homosexual is going to walk out of that bakery with a box of brownies and no one ever said they didn't. No homosexual has complained that they stopped at the flower shop and didn't get sold a dozen roses for a same sex honey.

What they want is a newly created civil right to the talent of an unwilling artist. In these cases the artists are religious.

Once artistic freedom becomes a political permission our general hold on freedom is non existent. The illusion that we are a free country is shattered.

you are missing the point.

let me try again:

in your example of a muslim store only selling halal food. By so doing he is discriminating against everyone who does not eat halal food. Its no different than your florist example. The muslim grocer should be forced to carry kosher food, non-halal food, and all kinds of beer, wine and liguor. Otherwise he is limiting his business to people who share his religious views. If a florist gets sued for doing that , then so should the muslim grocer.

you libs claim to want freedom and equality, but only on your terms and only for your chosen minorities.

It is YOU missing the point. It is NOT discrimination if a story does not offer a service at all..for anyone...ever. It's not discrimination if you go a car parts store and expect to be served dessert.

So its OK for a store to limit what it sells based on religion? and thats not religious discrimination, but limiting who you cater a wedding for is discrimination?

you logic is falling apart here.

I have to wonder if you are being intentionally obtuse. You really don't see the difference between not selling a widget at all and not selling a widget to "those people"?

 

[PratchettFan]

Bullshit. People are discriminated against all the time and for good reasons. Lifestyle choice is a worthy means for discrimination, something I keep well in mind before hiring a pedophile to watch my kids.

Why would you be hiring a pedophile to watch your kids? Or for that matter a murderer or a convicted conman?

You are right that we do discriminate against people all of the time. In 1964 Congress passed a law making it illegal for certain kinds of business's to discriminate in providing service because of a customers race, creed, gender or national origin.

Was that law wrong?

Oh good. You realize that at least on a national level, lifestyle choice was never a criteria of discrimination protection. Many Leftists don't get that fine point. The "add the words" campaign failed here in Idaho, and that's a good thing. Whether it be drugs, homosexuality, or pedophilia, nobody deserves to live however they want and not face discrimination for it. That's bullshit. So here in Idaho since sexual orientation can be discriminated, my kids are safe because I don't have to hire a pedophile babysitter.

So heterosexuality should not be a criteria for discrimination protection.

Even you have to see this as nonsense.

wrong, its exactly on point. you libs just refuse to understand where this will lead.

So what you are saying is that if blacks can't be refused service in a restaurant because of their race, then hot dog stands will have to sell pianos. And yet, for some strange reason, that didn't happen.

I'm not a liberal. Not even close. I just don't think being a conservative obligates you to be silly.

No, what I am doing is making a valid analogy between forcing a florist to do business that violates her relition and a muslim grocer being forced to do business that violates his religion.

If you are going to force the florist to do business with gays by providing services that gays want, then you also have to force the muslim grocer to do business with jews by carrying products that jews want.

The gay couple did not want some kind of service the florist was not providing to anyone else. They wanted the same service the florist was providing to everyone else. They didn't demand the florist bake them a cake, just sell them flowers. I am assuming one of the things the florist did was sell flowers. Your analogy is absurd.

Ok, but I ask you once again, why would a gay couple want to do business with a florist who did not approve of gay marriage? Just to make an issue of it???? Yes, of course.

And I will answer, once again. I haven't the foggiest. I don't know them. But I applaud them for pursuing it and I applaud the florist for fighting it. People should stand up for themselves when they think they have been wronged.

 

[PratchettFan]

a

Rights aren't special privileges. If any of us have the right to not be discriminated against, all of us do.

Bullshit. People are discriminated against all the time and for good reasons. Lifestyle choice is a worthy means for discrimination, something I keep well in mind before hiring a pedophile to watch my kids.

Exactly. You can't apply discrimination protection to everyone. Which is why it can't be considered a universal right. It's a privilege extend by government to select people in select circumstances. That's not what equal protection is about.

How is providing discrimination protection to some and not others equal protection?

It's not.

So you don't think the 14th amendment is a universal right? Who do you think we should deny equal protection to?

 

[Silhouette]

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

More appropriately the sign should read:

"Due to our love and faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ, we refuse to love our neighbor as we would love ourselves." or

"Because we believe in the message of Jesus Christ who said "This I now command you that you love your brother as yourself", we refuse to serve faggots."

I realize those signs would play into your game of milking sympathy for gays in order to RAMROD in MILITANT LITIGIOUS style, your dogma down the throats of others. But I think just a simple sign saying their faith forbids them from enabling homosexual cultural takeover (marriage, the hub of any culture) and then just wishing them well elsewhere would suffice.

Drop the drama, asshole.

 

[Ravi]

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

More appropriately the sign should read:

"Due to our love and faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ, we refuse to love our neighbor as we would love ourselves." or

"Because we believe in the message of Jesus Christ who said "This I now command you that you love your brother as yourself", we refuse to serve faggots."

I realize those signs would play into your game of milking sympathy for gays in order to RAMROD in MILITANT LITIGIOUS style, your dogma down the throats of others. But I think just a simple sign saying their faith forbids them from enabling homosexual cultural takeover (marriage, the hub of any culture) and then just wishing them well elsewhere would suffice.

Drop the drama, asshole.

There is no real difference in meaning between his suggested signs and yours.

 

[Seawytch]

A customer wanting beer or wine in a store that does not stock beer and wine is not suffering discrimination. A kosher butcher does not stock bacon, but anyone wanting bacon in his shop came to the wrong butcher.

But anyone in that kosher butcher shop can buy any of his goods and he cannot refuse their patronage, so long as they buy what he has to sell.

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

More appropriately the sign should read:

"Due to our love and faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ, we refuse to love our neighbor as we would love ourselves."

or

"Because we believe in the message of Jesus Christ who said "This I now command you that you love your brother as yourself", we refuse to serve faggots."

SassyIrish liked this. Something makes me think perhaps she didn't read it very carefully.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Why is a muslim owned convenience store not forced to sell beer and wine? Why are they allowed to discriminate against their customers who choose to consume beer and wine?

Because, as has been explained repeatedly, Pubic Accommodation laws do not mandate what goods and services must be offered as part of a business model, only that if such goods and services are offered the business cannot deny those goods and services based on certain characteristics of the consumer.

You attempt to say that PA laws required merchants to offer goods and services is silly.

***************************************

For example takes Masterpiece Cakes in Colorado. The shop offered weddings cakes, they cannot deny customers based on certain characteristics of the customer defined in the law (disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry).

In the past Masterpiece Cakes violated the Colorado PA law, now they don't offer weddings cakes as part of the service they offer (while the court case progresses), they are now complying with the law because they have chosen not to sell wedding cakes at all.


>>>>

 

[SassyIrishLass]

A customer wanting beer or wine in a store that does not stock beer and wine is not suffering discrimination. A kosher butcher does not stock bacon, but anyone wanting bacon in his shop came to the wrong butcher.

But anyone in that kosher butcher shop can buy any of his goods and he cannot refuse their patronage, so long as they buy what he has to sell.

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

More appropriately the sign should read:

"Due to our love and faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ, we refuse to love our neighbor as we would love ourselves."

or

"Because we believe in the message of Jesus Christ who said "This I now command you that you love your brother as yourself", we refuse to serve faggots."

SassyIrish liked this. Something makes me think perhaps she didn't read it very carefully.

It seems to have made the homos and progtard's head spin and explode...10,000 views?

You're a typical loudmouth homo....just flap your yap to flap. Nothing of substance, just yap flapping.

 

[Seawytch]

A customer wanting beer or wine in a store that does not stock beer and wine is not suffering discrimination. A kosher butcher does not stock bacon, but anyone wanting bacon in his shop came to the wrong butcher.

But anyone in that kosher butcher shop can buy any of his goods and he cannot refuse their patronage, so long as they buy what he has to sell.

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

More appropriately the sign should read:

"Due to our love and faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ, we refuse to love our neighbor as we would love ourselves."

or

"Because we believe in the message of Jesus Christ who said "This I now command you that you love your brother as yourself", we refuse to serve faggots."

SassyIrish liked this. Something makes me think perhaps she didn't read it very carefully.

It seems to have made the homos and progtard's head spin and explode...10,000 views?

You're a typical loudmouth homo....just flap your yap to flap. Nothing of substance, just yap flapping.

Did you read it carefully this time...catching the sarcasm? Hurry and unlike the post.

 

[Seawytch]

In the past Masterpiece Cakes violated the Colorado PA law, now they don't offer weddings cakes as part of the service they offer (while the court case progresses), they are now complying with the law because they have chosen not to sell wedding cakes at all.

>>>>

Allowing another business to open and take its place. Win/win.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

a

Rights aren't special privileges. If any of us have the right to not be discriminated against, all of us do.

Bullshit. People are discriminated against all the time and for good reasons. Lifestyle choice is a worthy means for discrimination, something I keep well in mind before hiring a pedophile to watch my kids.

Why would you be hiring a pedophile to watch your kids? Or for that matter a murderer or a convicted conman?

You are right that we do discriminate against people all of the time. In 1964 Congress passed a law making it illegal for certain kinds of business's to discriminate in providing service because of a customers race, creed, gender or national origin.

Was that law wrong?

Oh good. You realize that at least on a national level, lifestyle choice was never a criteria of discrimination protection. Many Leftists don't get that fine point. The "add the words" campaign failed here in Idaho, and that's a good thing. Whether it be drugs, homosexuality, or pedophilia, nobody deserves to live however they want and not face discrimination for it. That's bullshit. So here in Idaho since sexual orientation can be discriminated, my kids are safe because I don't have to hire a pedophile babysitter.

So heterosexuality should not be a criteria for discrimination protection.

Even better yet, how bout we keep what happens in the bedroom out of everyone's freaking face?

 

[WorldWatcher]

No, what I am doing is making a valid analogy...

No, actually you are attempting to use a Red Herring Fallacy to deflect the issue.

If we allow "A", then "B" must also be true to deflect the discussion to be about "B" instead of "A".


>>>>

 

[bodecea]

A customer wanting beer or wine in a store that does not stock beer and wine is not suffering discrimination. A kosher butcher does not stock bacon, but anyone wanting bacon in his shop came to the wrong butcher.

But anyone in that kosher butcher shop can buy any of his goods and he cannot refuse their patronage, so long as they buy what he has to sell.

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

The crux of the entire logic being that you cannot force Christianity to incorporate a homosexual value system into their dogma.

That nice big sign.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

A customer wanting beer or wine in a store that does not stock beer and wine is not suffering discrimination. A kosher butcher does not stock bacon, but anyone wanting bacon in his shop came to the wrong butcher.

But anyone in that kosher butcher shop can buy any of his goods and he cannot refuse their patronage, so long as they buy what he has to sell.

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

More appropriately the sign should read:

"Due to our love and faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ, we refuse to love our neighbor as we would love ourselves."

or

"Because we believe in the message of Jesus Christ who said "This I now command you that you love your brother as yourself", we refuse to serve faggots."

SassyIrish liked this. Something makes me think perhaps she didn't read it very carefully.

It seems to have made the homos and progtard's head spin and explode...10,000 views?

You're a typical loudmouth homo....just flap your yap to flap. Nothing of substance, just yap flapping.

Did you read it carefully this time...catching the sarcasm? Hurry and unlike the post.

I pay little attention to yap flappers....like you, except to make fun of. Now go shave your back

 

[Nosmo King]

A customer wanting beer or wine in a store that does not stock beer and wine is not suffering discrimination. A kosher butcher does not stock bacon, but anyone wanting bacon in his shop came to the wrong butcher.

But anyone in that kosher butcher shop can buy any of his goods and he cannot refuse their patronage, so long as they buy what he has to sell.

It seems a simple solution then. Christians merely post that their shop is a Christian shop and as such they are not allowed as a matter of faith to serve gay weddings (enable in any way shape or form the spread of a homosexual culture within the normal one. The hub of any culture being marriage, of course). "Good luck elsewhere" should be the closing sentiment to that sign.

More appropriately the sign should read:

"Due to our love and faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ, we refuse to love our neighbor as we would love ourselves."

or

"Because we believe in the message of Jesus Christ who said "This I now command you that you love your brother as yourself", we refuse to serve faggots."

SassyIrish liked this. Something makes me think perhaps she didn't read it very carefully.

It seems to have made the homos and progtard's head spin and explode...10,000 views?

You're a typical loudmouth homo....just flap your yap to flap. Nothing of substance, just yap flapping.

Another sign these allegedly Christians could post might read:

"We run our business according to strict Biblical mandates. Therefore,as the Bible teaches us to 'Judge not lest YE be judged', we refuse to do business with the decadent, depraved and sinful Homosexual customer"

Do you get it now, Sassy?