Florida Judge Rules ObamaCare Unconstitutional

[Sheldon]

A federal judge has ruled that the health care reform bill signed into law by President Barack Obama in March is unconstitutional.

Judge Roger Vinson, a Reagan appointee serving in Pensacola, Florida, ruled that key components of the law are unconstitutional and that the entire law "must be declared void."

MSNBC

We now have two judges who say it's unconstitutional and two judges who say it's not.

There's several things in the law that I like, but the individual mandate is not one of them. It's a crappy idea that should have been left in the dumpster behind the Heritage Foundation.

And was there ever any doubt that this was going to the Supremes? Eight of the votes are foregone conclusions, imo, which once again makes Justice Kennedy the arbiter of national policy.

Personally, if this law gets stuck down by SCOTUS I'll see it as a victory for health care reform, because it will shove the single-payer option back into the middle of the table.

 

[boedicca]

in other words, if you disagree, it is activism.

Wrong, If the ruling Defies the constitutions intent then it is activism.

of course there is some room for interpretation in all things But usually the intent of the Constitution is pretty clear.

IMO it is very clear that the Constitution does not give the Federal Government the Power to force you to buy anything.

Therefore the Mandate is unconstitutional.

But they do force you to purchase Medicare....

No, we do not purchase Medicare. We pay a tax now which is a transfer payment to existing Medicare recipients. Most of us who are not retired don't believe we will get the Medicare we've been promised. It's not like we have prepaid for an insurance policy that is waiting for us to claim it. All that we can look forward to is the government raising taxes on the poor young working shlubs, what few there may be, in order to pay for rationed care on our behalf.

I don't know about you, but when I PURCHASE (voluntarily) something, I don't get ripped off in such a manner.

 

[Trajan]

Okay, keep deluding yourself.

you are the delusional one if you think its a purchase

it's a purchase because you get something for it.

given that the federal government has the right to tax, i think we can agree that if it's a tax, there's no question it's constitutional.

it is a tax for NOT purchasing...you cannot separate the reason from the event.


(and remember it wasn't a tax before it was).

did you support it when he made the argument that is wasn't a tax but a fee?


lets say we must now purchase an electric vehicle even if you don't drive? you okay with that?

 

[Sheldon]

So, we're still going to have all of these exceptions to the individual mandate uninsured. Where exactly is the fix to our current health care problem?

Rick

The objective isn't to fix health care. The purpose is to funnel more income and wealth from group 4 to groups 1-3:

1. Public Employee Unions
2. The Poor
3. The Ruling Elite
4. The rest of us who work hard and take responsibility for ourselves and our families

2 and 4 can be the same thing, you know.

 

[DiveCon]

how about they make a national healthcare option where you elect to be taxed to cover the cost
and you can opt out if you want to

 

[boedicca]

So, we're still going to have all of these exceptions to the individual mandate uninsured. Where exactly is the fix to our current health care problem?

Rick

The objective isn't to fix health care. The purpose is to funnel more income and wealth from group 4 to groups 1-3:

1. Public Employee Unions
2. The Poor
3. The Ruling Elite
4. The rest of us who work hard and take responsibility for ourselves and our families

2 and 4 can be the same thing, you know.

Pardon me. By "The Poor" I mean the Sacred Cow Poor who live on the dole, not the ones who are impoverished by taxes yet maintain the dignity to keep working instead of being a dependent upon the government.

 

[Trajan]

how about they make a national healthcare option where you elect to be taxed to cover the cost
and you can opt out if you want to

nope. the gov. knows best, they will engage in a huge ponzi scheme so they can keep the spice ( cash) flowing into their coffers. frankly they'd be more honest if they just said they want to extend medicare to everyone and use that as a vehicle seeking legality.

But honesty has nothing to do with this- as I laid out a coupla of pages ago- you have folks who will back him after, repeatedly have been lied to straight to their face, by Obama, several times. He has changed the language, meanings, financial hurdles to make the bill go, and even then he had to bribe his won party to go along.

its all about winning, period. The duplicity is right there in video and transcripts, he'll say anything flip flop and flip back again ala it wasn't a tax its a fee, now its a tax again. They don't care, that people will sacrifice their integrity to sppt. this , well, really flummoxes me.

 

[Zander]

you are the delusional one if you think its a purchase

it's a purchase because you get something for it.

given that the federal government has the right to tax, i think we can agree that if it's a tax, there's no question it's constitutional.

it is a tax for NOT purchasing...you cannot separate the reason from the event.


(and remember it wasn't a tax before it was).

did you support it when he made the argument that is wasn't a tax but a fee?


lets say we must now purchase an electric vehicle even if you don't drive? you okay with that?

but but but,.....Think about the children!!!!..they deserve clean air and water, free health care, and a $185,000 debt at birth (that is before Obamacare) don't they?

Obama campaigned that "it's not a tax". Democrat Congressmen told us "it's not a tax". Now that it looks like the whole POS is getting thrown out ... well now it's a tax!! They'll say anything......

 

[Liability]

It was not a tax before it was a tax.

President Obama is channeling John F'n Lurch Kerry!

 

[asterism]

Okay, keep deluding yourself.

you are the delusional one if you think its a purchase

it's a purchase because you get something for it.

given that the federal government has the right to tax, i think we can agree that if it's a tax, there's no question it's constitutional.

Go ahead and roll the dice on how people vote on single payer. Not "public option" and not "exchanges," but full on single payer.

It actually is Constitutional if it's a tax, but the public won't go for it. And if you've ever been treated at the VA you wouldn't either.

 

[asterism]

how about they make a national healthcare option where you elect to be taxed to cover the cost
and you can opt out if you want to

The case being made is that it's equivalent to National Security of the Interstate Highway System. It's "infrastructure." Funny how they didn't write the legislation that way. I wonder why.

 

[Liability]

you are the delusional one if you think its a purchase

it's a purchase because you get something for it.

given that the federal government has the right to tax, i think we can agree that if it's a tax, there's no question it's constitutional.

Go ahead and roll the dice on how people vote on single payer. Not "public option" and not "exchanges," but full on single payer.

It actually is Constitutional if it's a tax, but the public won't go for it. And if you've ever been treated at the VA you wouldn't either.

I don't think so.

A good argument can be made that "if" it "is" a "tax," then it is absolutely UnConstitutional ON THAT BASIS since it not apportioned.

In any event, the Administration contorted itself to DENY that it is a 'tax."

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Personally, if this law gets stuck down by SCOTUS I'll see it as a victory for health care reform, because it will shove the single-payer option back into the middle of the table.

I disagree. The support of single payer is even less than the current law and the same goes for those in the Congress. Plus, as long as Republicans control at least one house of Congress or the presidency single payer is DOA.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, keep deluding yourself.

you are the delusional one if you think its a purchase

it's a purchase because you get something for it.

given that the federal government has the right to tax, i think we can agree that if it's a tax, there's no question it's constitutional.

Does that mean that property tax is a purchase because people get an education for their children? What about people that never participate in Medicare, is it a purchase for them also?

 

[DiveCon]

you are the delusional one if you think its a purchase

it's a purchase because you get something for it.

given that the federal government has the right to tax, i think we can agree that if it's a tax, there's no question it's constitutional.

Does that mean that property tax is a purchase because people get an education for their children? What about people that never participate in Medicare, is it a purchase for them also?

and if property tax is purchasing education, then can people without kids opt out of that part of it?

 

[Ravi]

No, you can't opt out of property taxes...property taxes are constitutional and if THEY are so is medicare and health care.

 

[jillian]

it's a purchase because you get something for it.

given that the federal government has the right to tax, i think we can agree that if it's a tax, there's no question it's constitutional.

Does that mean that property tax is a purchase because people get an education for their children? What about people that never participate in Medicare, is it a purchase for them also?

and if property tax is purchasing education, then can people without kids opt out of that part of it?

no. same as i couldn't opt out of having any part of my taxes go for iraq or for baby bush's million dollar study on whether prayer works.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No, you can't opt out of property taxes...property taxes are constitutional and if THEY are so is medicare and health care.

if that is true then you will also be required to by a GM green car. The company that is emoploying thousands of mexicans in Mexico.

 

[The Rabbi]

Does that mean that property tax is a purchase because people get an education for their children? What about people that never participate in Medicare, is it a purchase for them also?

and if property tax is purchasing education, then can people without kids opt out of that part of it?

no. same as i couldn't opt out of having any part of my taxes go for iraq or for baby bush's million dollar study on whether prayer works.

I never saw a property tax levied by the federal government. It is an important distinction between fed powers and state/local powers.
One that doubtless eludes you, "counselor."

 

[Article 15]

and if property tax is purchasing education, then can people without kids opt out of that part of it?

no. same as i couldn't opt out of having any part of my taxes go for iraq or for baby bush's million dollar study on whether prayer works.

I never saw a property tax levied by the federal government. It is an important distinction between fed powers and state/local powers.
One that doubtless eludes you, "counselor."

Who pays for the medical bills of the guy who chooses not to buy insurance, gets sick, and then files for bankruptcy?