Flood: Mesopotamian Archaeological Evidence

[surada]

Samuel Kramer is gone but what a scholar.. what a body of work.

Expedition Magazine - Penn Museum

www.penn.museum

 

[alang1216]

The Flood: Mesopotamian Archaeological Evidence | National Center for Science Education

This is a discussion of the three Mesopotamian flood myths and evidence for each. It's interesting and not too difficult a read.

Mesopotamian flood tales are more useful. Similarities between the account of Noah's Flood in the Hebrew scriptures and the Mesopotamian flood tales are great and obvious. Despite some lesser differences, there is no reasoned body of opinion that claims they are unrelated. The accepted view is that the archetypal account originated in Mesopotamia. The earliest extant Mesopotamian version is far older than the biblical account, and the Flood story bears specifically Mesopotamian details that cannot reasonably be supposed to derive from a Hebrew original. Near Eastern scholars have consequently turned to the cuneiform sources.

The most well-known and detailed Mesopotamian account of the Flood is found in the Gilgamesh Epic (Tigay, 1982, pp. 214-240; for other accounts, see: Lambert and Millard, 1969; Kramer, 1967). Even this account, however, seems to have been somewhat abbreviated because of the literary role that it plays within the broader story of Gilgamesh's confrontation with mortality. Closely parallel are the lengthy but, in part, ill-preserved accounts in the Atra-hasis Epic and the shorter and incomplete Sumerian Deluge Myth. Briefer references to the Flood serve as prefaces to several other myths. Myths are frequently introduced by an abbreviated account of some monumental mythic event, such as the Flood or creation itself. There are other scattered fragments, and a version of the Mesopotamian Flood tale even survives in the sadly incomplete fragments of the writings of the Babylonian priest Berossus, who lived in the late fourth and early third centuries BCE (Lambert and Millard, 1969; Kramer, 1967).

The Sumerian King List also contains a reference to the Flood (Mallowan, 1964, pp. 67-69; Kramer, 1967, pp. 12-13). The King List is a complex document, existing in a number of different editions. Probably first composed about 2100 BCE and extant in an edition from about 1900 BCE, the King List purports to record the kings and dynasties of Mesopotamia from the time when first "kingship descended from heaven" until the time of composition. The list has many weaknesses. Early kings are credited with reigns of such fabulous length that Methuselah's span seems reduced to insignificance, and a number of early dynasties that were in fact contemporary are listed as if they were sequential. Despite these defects, the Sumerian King List appears to preserve the names and sequences of many early real rulers, a number of whom are independently attested elsewhere. The King List claims that, after a number of antediluvian rulers, the Flood swept over everything, after which kingship once again "descended from heaven" and the list of dynasties and rulers resumes. Gilgamesh, hero of the epic, is listed long after the Flood. Thus, the evidence of both the King List and the Gilgamesh Epic, which has Gilgamesh listening to an account of the Flood, agree that he lived well after the Flood.

 

[surada]

Mesopotamian flood tales are more useful. Similarities between the account of Noah's Flood in the Hebrew scriptures and the Mesopotamian flood tales are great and obvious. Despite some lesser differences, there is no reasoned body of opinion that claims they are unrelated. The accepted view is that the archetypal account originated in Mesopotamia. The earliest extant Mesopotamian version is far older than the biblical account, and the Flood story bears specifically Mesopotamian details that cannot reasonably be supposed to derive from a Hebrew original. Near Eastern scholars have consequently turned to the cuneiform sources.

The most well-known and detailed Mesopotamian account of the Flood is found in the Gilgamesh Epic (Tigay, 1982, pp. 214-240; for other accounts, see: Lambert and Millard, 1969; Kramer, 1967). Even this account, however, seems to have been somewhat abbreviated because of the literary role that it plays within the broader story of Gilgamesh's confrontation with mortality. Closely parallel are the lengthy but, in part, ill-preserved accounts in the Atra-hasis Epic and the shorter and incomplete Sumerian Deluge Myth. Briefer references to the Flood serve as prefaces to several other myths. Myths are frequently introduced by an abbreviated account of some monumental mythic event, such as the Flood or creation itself. There are other scattered fragments, and a version of the Mesopotamian Flood tale even survives in the sadly incomplete fragments of the writings of the Babylonian priest Berossus, who lived in the late fourth and early third centuries BCE (Lambert and Millard, 1969; Kramer, 1967).

The Sumerian King List also contains a reference to the Flood (Mallowan, 1964, pp. 67-69; Kramer, 1967, pp. 12-13). The King List is a complex document, existing in a number of different editions. Probably first composed about 2100 BCE and extant in an edition from about 1900 BCE, the King List purports to record the kings and dynasties of Mesopotamia from the time when first "kingship descended from heaven" until the time of composition. The list has many weaknesses. Early kings are credited with reigns of such fabulous length that Methuselah's span seems reduced to insignificance, and a number of early dynasties that were in fact contemporary are listed as if they were sequential. Despite these defects, the Sumerian King List appears to preserve the names and sequences of many early real rulers, a number of whom are independently attested elsewhere. The King List claims that, after a number of antediluvian rulers, the Flood swept over everything, after which kingship once again "descended from heaven" and the list of dynasties and rulers resumes. Gilgamesh, hero of the epic, is listed long after the Flood. Thus, the evidence of both the King List and the Gilgamesh Epic, which has Gilgamesh listening to an account of the Flood, agree that he lived well after the Flood.

Thank you so much. I can't copy paragraphs on my tablet.

 

[westwall]

AGAIN---no world wide flooding. Local floodings all over the place. Nothing like the bible says, you silly half-witted little instigation.

Yes, that is true. But. Mankind congregates on rivers and coast lines. Thus when the continental ice sheets melted pretty much everyone had to move.

That's why every ancient culture has a flood legend.

 

[alang1216]

Yes, that is true. But. Mankind congregates on rivers and coast lines. Thus when the continental ice sheets melted pretty much everyone had to move.

That why every ancient culture has a flood legend.

I don't know... My gut tells me the rise was slow and since there were no permanent cities or towns, nobody really noticed.

 

[westwall]

I don't know... My gut tells me the rise was slow and since there were no permanent cities or towns, nobody really noticed.

There are villages that have been found on the continental shelf surrounding the Black Sea.


I would hazard a guess that as the technology improves we will find villages all over the world.

 

[surada]

Yes, that is true. But. Mankind congregates on rivers and coast lines. Thus when the continental ice sheets melted pretty much everyone had to move.

That's why every ancient culture has a flood legend.

The glaciers melted very slowly over hundreds and hundreds of years.

 

[westwall]

There are villages that have been found on the continental shelf surrounding the Black Sea.


I would hazard a guess that as the technology improves we will find villages all over the world.

Also, the Mediterranean filled very rapidly when the breach through the Pillars of Hercules occurred.

Talk about a catastrophe!

 

[surada]

Also, the Mediterranean filled very rapidly when the breach through the Pillars of Hercules occurred.

Talk about a catastrophe!

Nope. It took years. There was plenty of time to move families and livestock.

 

[westwall]

The glaciers melted very slowly over hundreds and hundreds of years.

Possibly. It depends on where you look. There would have been thousands of years of melting that filled the Atlantic, and other oceans, till finally the Pillars were breached causing that catastrophe.

The Black Sea though, I think filled within a 100 years. There is simply too much runoff heading for it, with no other place to go.

 

[westwall]

Nope. It took years. There was plenty of time to move families and livestock.

Nope. There is plenty of evidence that shows the Med filled very rapidly indeed.

 

[surada]

Possibly. It depends on where you look. There would have been thousands of years of melting that filled the Atlantic, and other oceans, till finally the Pillars were breached causing that catastrophe.

The Black Sea though, I think filled within a 100 years. There is simply too much runoff heading for it, with no other place to go.

The Atlantic existed before the glaciers melted.

 

[westwall]

The Atlantic existed before the glaciers melted.

Yes. We know that. Did you not read what I said?

 

[westwall]

Look up Zanclean Deluge. The water flow was over 1000 times what the Amazon does.

There is fresh water 100 miles out to sea from the Amazon Delta.

 

[surada]

I don't know... My gut tells me the rise was slow and since there were no permanent cities or towns, nobody really noticed.

Rivers swell out of the their banks with snow melt or spring rains and those river banks are fertile. Look at the Fertile Crescent.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Look up Zanclean Deluge.

"5.33 million years ago" -- Bible says "Wut?!"

 

[Indeependent]

You must be an incel.

You must be an idiot.

 

[Indeependent]

Why are you pretending to be some scientific guru here while spouting creationist BS? Carbon dating estimates have never proven horribly "wrong" -- even those done 70 or more years ago. Far from off by even a factor of 2, let alone 500 or whatever silliness you've been drinking.

You have it exactly the opposite...
I have stated many times that I am not a scientific guru while you worship at the feet of surada making believe she is.
What I do have at my disposal is several communities of Jewish scientific gurus who think she is an idiot to make believe she has any idea what these articles are discussing.

 

[westwall]

"5.33 million years ago" -- Bible says "Wut?!"

oh yeah, that's my inability to measure time kicking in everything I work on is millions of years old, so I defaulted to that one.

 

[BreezeWood]

The Flood: Mesopotamian Archaeological Evidence | National Center for Science Education

This is a discussion of the three Mesopotamian flood myths and evidence for each. It's interesting and not too difficult a read.

really, gee is that coincidental with the first etchings, written languages - and that coincidentally happens to be the time of the heavenly flood. for some reason.

The assertion of some historians and archaeologists that a great flood devastated a region of Mesopotamia at the dawn of history and that this event was the origin of the biblical Flood story has become a curious backwater in the debate over creationism.

- did gilgor happen across a&e on their journey ... 1 million years earlier. were a&e mentioned by the mesopotamians.

There is, moreover, question of whether memory of an event as early as 3500 BCE could have survived to historic times. The date is too early for a written account to have been made, and the Sumerians do not appear to have had a methodical oral technique that would have long preserved a record of the event. The experiences of other cultures indicate that even the most traumatic events tend to fade from memory after a few generations in the absence of either writing or a highly developed oral procedure, such as formulaic oral poetry.

well, somehow they managed for - ~ 2 million years before the blatant corruption - written text - came to being. and their archeologists of denial.

formulaic oral poetry - the wise owl their impression of the event surly more resembles the truth than anything human.