Flat Tax vs Fair Tax

[bigrebnc1775]

The Fair Tax replaces income tax, social Security tax, capital gains tax, Medicare tax and replaces it with a consumption tax at the point if sale.

Oh...it's a VAT tax?

Is that proposed tax levied at every point of sale or ONLY levied at the END CONSUMER point of sale?

What's wrong with a sales tax? People would not be taxed on their income and will have more money to buy things. It would boost the economy by years end of 2013

 

[editec]

We could easily live within our current means if we stopped being the World Capitalism's mercenary nation.

But let's face it the same people whining about the deficit are the people who most benefit from American Hessians.


After all the US taxpayers pay for their armies, so there's no way they want to give us their MILITARY WELFARE BENEFITS.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Fair tax would work out best.

I get to keep what I earn and the rich pony up every time they buy overly expensive items.

But then liberals would have nothing to fear monger or divide us with, so it's a non-starter.

Who cares. If the people want it, it will happen.

No it won't.

Sorry, but it won't, the tax code, like government, will grow and grow until you need a degree to understand how to do your taxes.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So far no takers for the flat tax.

I prefer a flat tax.

Less moving parts more simplicity and less cost to oversee.

A 10% flat tax on the first dollar of income regardless of its source would bring in more money than our current income tax and cost billions less to enforce. We could use the savings to offset debt or to shore up safety nets.

As for Social Security I say leave the contributions as they are but let people own their own accounts. People would retire with more money and we could cut administration costs thereby increasing net revenue which then could be used to lower the income tax even more.

The fair tax with it's "prebates" and other calculations is cumbersome.

Right on time....just strengthens what I just said. These ideas are liked because they are simple. Not because they are effective or productive.

As opposed to what we have now.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I prefer a flat tax.

Less moving parts more simplicity and less cost to oversee.

A 10% flat tax on the first dollar of income regardless of its source would bring in more money than our current income tax and cost billions less to enforce. We could use the savings to offset debt or to shore up safety nets.

As for Social Security I say leave the contributions as they are but let people own their own accounts. People would retire with more money and we could cut administration costs thereby increasing net revenue which then could be used to lower the income tax even more.

The fair tax with it's "prebates" and other calculations is cumbersome.

Right on time....just strengthens what I just said. These ideas are liked because they are simple. Not because they are effective or productive.

As opposed to what we have now.

Yeah people don't understand the concept of minimal effective dose and believe that more complexity is better than simplicity.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Fair tax,but too many people favor the status quo and change scares the crap out of them.
And the elites wouldn't be in favor of anything that would eliminate their power to manipulate the masses.

I don't like that prebate crap and some of the other provisions. In short almost 100% of Americans and American families would be DEPENDENT ON A GOVERNMENT CHECK!

The prebate is there for a reason. No one will depend on this check because it is not enough to survive on. It is just enough to off set some taxes.

I beleive the prebate is meant to cover the same expenses that the personal exemption does under current rules.

 

[gallantwarrior]

The Fair Tax replaces income tax, social Security tax, capital gains tax, Medicare tax and replaces it with a consumption tax at the point if sale.

Oh...it's a VAT tax?

Is that proposed tax levied at every point of sale or ONLY levied at the END CONSUMER point of sale?

What's wrong with a sales tax? People would not be taxed on their income and will have more money to buy things. It would boost the economy by years end of 2013

People with more money will naturally make more, bigger purchases, thereby paying more tax. How much more 'fair' does taxation get?

 

[DiamondDave]

We need a combination of revenue streams.

First of all, we need progressive income tax with limited deductions like mortgage interest deductions (for the primary residence only). This would prevent people from shielding their income from taxation.

Secondly, we need a national sales tax with exemptions for absolute necessities (like food, for example).

This approach would tax both earnings and spending, and it would also promote a higher savings rate due to the national sales tax collected at the point of sale.

So again you have someone to your liking SUBJECTIVELY choose who pays more and who pays less (picking winners and losers again)... and you have someone SUBJECTIVELY post exclusions that you like...

Nah... we need the SUBJECTIVITY out of taxation... end the pandering

 

[akelch]

How about repeal the unconstitutional sixteenth amendment and have a federal sales tax? That's the only fair way to tax people.

Agreed

 

[akelch]

Oh...it's a VAT tax?

Is that proposed tax levied at every point of sale or ONLY levied at the END CONSUMER point of sale?

What's wrong with a sales tax? People would not be taxed on their income and will have more money to buy things. It would boost the economy by years end of 2013

People with more money will naturally make more, bigger purchases, thereby paying more tax. How much more 'fair' does taxation get?

The VAT tax is at every point of sale. Business to business to business to consumer.

The Fair Tax is one time at the point of sale. The end

 

[g5000]

When you look at the effect taxes have (the more you tax something, the less of it you get) then a consumption tax is superior to a tax on production (income tax).

Thus a Fair Tax is better than the Flat Tax.

As has been pointed out, the Fair Tax provides a monthly prebate to mitigate the regressive nature of the tax.

The existence of the prebate means the IRS would not go away.

Someone asked about exemptions for families. Well, that is what the prebate is. The larger your family, the bigger the prebate.

No other exemptions for anything should be allowed. All this shit about begging for gifts in the form of exemptions is exactly how our system is continually corrupted.

If a Congressman cannot add loopholes, deductions, subsidies, or credits to the tax code, then donating gazillions of dollars to his campaign to get him to do so would be pointless.

A Fair Tax would provide a better source of revenue and eliminate corruption.


The other chief advantage of a Fair Tax is that the government cannot sneak a tax hike on you. You would know immediately if your taxes went up.

Plus, everyone pays it, and therefore has an interest in what government is doing with their money. Skin in the game.

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[Wry Catcher]

How about repeal the unconstitutional sixteenth amendment and have a federal sales tax? That's the only fair way to tax people.

Agreed

A sales tax is regressive [Definition of 'Regressive Tax': A tax that takes a larger percentage from low-income people than from high-income people. A regressive tax is generally a tax that is applied uniformly. This means that it hits lower-income individuals harder.]

How is that fair?

BTW, posting that the 16th Amendment to our Constitution is unconstitutional is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read.

 

[DiamondDave]

How about repeal the unconstitutional sixteenth amendment and have a federal sales tax? That's the only fair way to tax people.

Agreed

A sales tax is regressive [Definition of 'Regressive Tax': A tax that takes a larger percentage from low-income people than from high-income people. A regressive tax is generally a tax that is applied uniformly. This means that it hits lower-income individuals harder.]

How is that fair?

BTW, posting that the 16th Amendment to our Constitution is unconstitutional is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read.

1) Fair is SUBJECTIVE.. as explained SO many times
2) You don't seem to mind the tax that gives others a disadvantage... you support the unequal treatment when it benefits you or your cause... government picking winners and losers again

 

[g5000]

How about repeal the unconstitutional sixteenth amendment and have a federal sales tax? That's the only fair way to tax people.

Agreed

A sales tax is regressive [Definition of 'Regressive Tax': A tax that takes a larger percentage from low-income people than from high-income people. A regressive tax is generally a tax that is applied uniformly. This means that it hits lower-income individuals harder.]

How is that fair?

BTW, posting that the 16th Amendment to our Constitution is unconstitutional is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read.

The Fair Tax is a federal sales tax. However, it has a prebate built into it. Lower income people would receive a check equal to, or greater than, the amount of Fair Tax they pay.

Wealthy people would receive a check the same size, but it would not come close to equaling the taxes they paid on their yachts and Bentleys.


.

 

[g5000]

If you make your money selling hookers and blow, you won't be able to escape the Fair Tax when you purchase some dubs for your Caddy.


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[akelch]

How about repeal the unconstitutional sixteenth amendment and have a federal sales tax? That's the only fair way to tax people.

Agreed

A sales tax is regressive [Definition of 'Regressive Tax': A tax that takes a larger percentage from low-income people than from high-income people. A regressive tax is generally a tax that is applied uniformly. This means that it hits lower-income individuals harder.]

How is that fair?

BTW, posting that the 16th Amendment to our Constitution is unconstitutional is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read.

Again the Fair Tax has a prebate system built in to offset the taxes for low income families. So the rich will pay more of a percentage then the lower income families.

The 16th amendment was not ratified according to the Constitution...so by that definition it is Inconsitutional.

 

[akelch]

I tell you what...if you are worried about loosing your exemptions under the Fair Tax....then we will let you keep them.

 

[asaratis]

The Fair Tax would also likely make the IRS obsolete.

For that reason alone the government would probable not want to pass it.

It is true that liberals like big government. (Lots of gov't employees) But the Fair Tax would not do away with all those people now in the IRS.. The government will need most of those people to administrate ObamaCare.

The Fair Tax is the way to go. There would be no need of the government knowing how much money you make or where it came from. The taxation would be on CONSUMED PRODUCTS AND SERVICES. You buy something...you pay the fair tax.

That way, when a pimp buys a Rolls Royce, he pays the tax. When a drug dealer buys a yacht, he pays the tax. As it is now, these people pay little or nothing in income tax. They are crooks! To avoid the tax, they just don't report the income.

I do believe that the Fair Tax would work. I also believe it will never be implemented because our "lawmakers" love to be able to control things and grant favors to each other by way of loopholes and variations in tax rates.

 

[g5000]

Agreed

A sales tax is regressive [Definition of 'Regressive Tax': A tax that takes a larger percentage from low-income people than from high-income people. A regressive tax is generally a tax that is applied uniformly. This means that it hits lower-income individuals harder.]

How is that fair?

BTW, posting that the 16th Amendment to our Constitution is unconstitutional is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read.

Again the Fair Tax has a prebate system built in to offset the taxes for low income families. So the rich will pay more of a percentage then the lower income families.

The 16th amendment was not ratified according to the Constitution...so by that definition it is Inconsitutional.

The conspiracy theory which says the 16th amendment was not ratified is one of the more loony conspiracy theories.

.

 

[g5000]

The Fair Tax would also likely make the IRS obsolete.

For that reason alone the government would probable not want to pass it.

It is true that liberals like big government. (Lots of gov't employees) But the Fair Tax would not do away with all those people now in the IRS.. The government will need most of those people to administrate ObamaCare.

The Fair Tax is the way to go. There would be no need of the government knowing how much money you make or where it came from. The taxation would be on CONSUMED PRODUCTS AND SERVICES. You buy something...you pay the fair tax.

That way, when a pimp buys a Rolls Royce, he pays the tax. When a drug dealer buys a yacht, he pays the tax. As it is now, these people pay little or nothing in income tax. They are crooks! To avoid the tax, they just don't report the income.

I do believe that the Fair Tax would work. I also believe it will never be implemented because our "lawmakers" love to be able to control things and grant favors to each other by way of loopholes and variations in tax rates.

Precisely. A Congressman could not be bribed to sneak a rider into a bill which provides a tax expenditure for a campaign donor if no tax expenditures were allowed, which means he would be hard up for campaign cash, which means the 97 percent re-election rate of incumbents would be threatened.

Can't have that!


We don't need campaign finance reform or term limits. We simply need honest tax reform.

If a Fair Tax is ever passed, though, you can be as sure it will be chock full of exemptions as you are the sun will rise tomorrow.



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