Flat Tax is a fraud and Steve Forbes knows this...

[OohPooPahDoo]

Abolishing the income tax helps everyone.

False.

Nope. True. The income tax is a drain on the economy.

A dollar spent in federal taxes is a lot more likely to wind up right back in the U.S. economy than a dollar spent at Wal-Mart.

 

[bripat9643]

False.

Nope. True. The income tax is a drain on the economy.

A dollar spent in federal taxes is a lot more likely to wind up right back in the U.S. economy than a dollar spent at Wal-Mart.

A dollar is just a worthless scrap of paper. The goods and services that dollars buy, once consumed by useless tics on the ass of society, are gone forever.

 

[freetek]

This was my response to Dick Army when he was soliciting funds to promote his post-card income tax form.

Steve’s One Page Tax Code- No manual required.

The Internal Revenue Service is herewith abolished and all federal taxes on all goods, wages, capital appreciation and all other un-named, un-itemized income of any kind at all levels are rescinded and the Internal Revenue Code including any tax law currently in legislation is likewise rescinded in its entirety.
All taxes, or any monetary burden that can be considered taxes, on income of any kind are banned in perpetuity.

A tax of XX% (actually, XXV% would be more likely - ;-)) will be assessed at the final point of sale to the end user of all new, unused, manufactured merchandise, that had not been previously taxed, with the following exclusions:

- Food: Except that purchased as a prepared (manufactured) item at an establishment that prepares such food as an item for sale.

- Medical services and medications to maintain or restore health or provide beneficial relief from discomfort. Cosmetic items of all kinds with no proven medical benefits are taxable.

- The mortgage interest of any first home purchase.
The tax shall be levied as on any other taxable item but refunded to the home-owner or lien holder upon certification of eligibility.

Taxes levied at the point of sale will be shown as a separate line-item on all invoices or receipts given to the buyer or consumer by a seller.

This Amendment may not be rescinded or amended without a supermajority equal to 2/3 of the voters (66.6% + 1 vote or more) agreeing to the rescission or amending of same.

The Congress shall devise a system of collection from the individual states of the Union which will submit such collected taxes for each calendar month no later than 30 days after collection of said taxes, starting 90 days from the ratification date of this Amendment.

Further, the Congress shall pass into law, a new national holiday to occur on the 15th of April each year.
This national holiday is to be known as:

“Tax Freedom Day”

All private businesses may close at their option.

All federal government offices are to remain open; all elected or appointed officials, all federal public servants must be on duty, at work on that day, 15 April, unless suffering a verified malady, that they be reminded annually who pays their generous wages.

Steve Allison
Grantsville, WV

 

[Big Fitz]

False.

Nope. True. The income tax is a drain on the economy.

A dollar spent in federal taxes is a lot more likely to wind up right back in the U.S. economy than a dollar spent at Wal-Mart.

You, of course, HAVE data to back that bullshit up? I seem to recall some flapdoodle about 6 years ago over the state of New Jersey using an Indian company to handle customer service calls. I'm sure ALL that money stayed in the US.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Nope. True. The income tax is a drain on the economy.

A dollar spent in federal taxes is a lot more likely to wind up right back in the U.S. economy than a dollar spent at Wal-Mart.

You, of course, HAVE data to back that bullshit up? I seem to recall some flapdoodle about 6 years ago over the state of New Jersey using an Indian company to handle customer service calls. I'm sure ALL that money stayed in the US.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Nope. True. The income tax is a drain on the economy.

A dollar spent in federal taxes is a lot more likely to wind up right back in the U.S. economy than a dollar spent at Wal-Mart.

A dollar is just a worthless scrap of paper. The goods and services that dollars buy, once consumed by useless tics on the ass of society, are gone forever.

But when rich folks spend those dollars they turn into shining bright lights that give hope and meaning to life the world over.....

Rich folks can't make money without CUSTOMERS. If rich folks only customers are other rich folks, it doesn't work out. Its like the 3rd floor in my college dormitory where everyone was selling drugs to everyone else all wondering why they weren't making any money.

 

[Big Fitz]

A dollar spent in federal taxes is a lot more likely to wind up right back in the U.S. economy than a dollar spent at Wal-Mart.

You, of course, HAVE data to back that bullshit up? I seem to recall some flapdoodle about 6 years ago over the state of New Jersey using an Indian company to handle customer service calls. I'm sure ALL that money stayed in the US.

Oh so you don't think that this level of corruption goes on at the federal level? Jeez you're a gross ignoramus. This was only ONE example at the state level of your tax dollars at waste and redistribution.

TARP funds benefited foreign banks more, says oversight panel - International Business Times

Fuckin' OOPS!

A congressional watchdog criticized, Thursday, the US government's handling of the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), which was set up as a $700 billion rescue fund for ailing local financial firms in 2008, saying it aided banks in foreign countries more than rescue programs of other countries helped US businesses.

 

[bripat9643]

A dollar spent in federal taxes is a lot more likely to wind up right back in the U.S. economy than a dollar spent at Wal-Mart.

A dollar is just a worthless scrap of paper. The goods and services that dollars buy, once consumed by useless tics on the ass of society, are gone forever.

But when rich folks spend those dollars they turn into shining bright lights that give hope and meaning to life the world over.....

Rich folks can't make money without CUSTOMERS. If rich folks only customers are other rich folks, it doesn't work out. Its like the 3rd floor in my college dormitory where everyone was selling drugs to everyone else all wondering why they weren't making any money.

There's no point in having a bunch of useless ticks who produce nothing for customers. The money they spend comes out of the hides of the rich and the middle class. How does a business benefit selling products to ticks when the money they're spending came from the people who own the business?

 

[Big Fitz]

A dollar is just a worthless scrap of paper. The goods and services that dollars buy, once consumed by useless tics on the ass of society, are gone forever.

But when rich folks spend those dollars they turn into shining bright lights that give hope and meaning to life the world over.....

Rich folks can't make money without CUSTOMERS. If rich folks only customers are other rich folks, it doesn't work out. Its like the 3rd floor in my college dormitory where everyone was selling drugs to everyone else all wondering why they weren't making any money.

There's no point in having a bunch of useless ticks who produce nothing for customers. The money they spend comes out of the hides of the rich and the middle class. How does a business benefit selling products to ticks when the money they're spending came from the people who own the business?

What eats ticks and what is their natural enemy? - Yahoo! Answers

The Guineafowl, they consume mass quantities of ticks. Just 2 birds can clear 2 acres in a single year

Can we elect some????

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

A dollar is just a worthless scrap of paper. The goods and services that dollars buy, once consumed by useless tics on the ass of society, are gone forever.

But when rich folks spend those dollars they turn into shining bright lights that give hope and meaning to life the world over.....

Rich folks can't make money without CUSTOMERS. If rich folks only customers are other rich folks, it doesn't work out. Its like the 3rd floor in my college dormitory where everyone was selling drugs to everyone else all wondering why they weren't making any money.

There's no point in having a bunch of useless ticks who produce nothing for customers. The money they spend comes out of the hides of the rich and the middle class. How does a business benefit selling products to ticks when the money they're spending came from the people who own the business?

The 50% who don't pay taxes are the folks that stock the shelves and ring up your order when you buy foreign goods at Wal-Mart. De-humanizing then by calling them "ticks" doesn't change the fact that the customer can't really stock the shelves or unload the trucks themselves and in most cases, wouldn't want to anyway.


As far as the middle class, they tend to benefit from the tax structure when they need it most. I for one - about to become a father - will see numerous tax benefits in the form of credits and deductions. But thats fair because I've had no children for nearly 15 years of my working life and have paid taxes to support those programs for others.

 

[Big Fitz]

But when rich folks spend those dollars they turn into shining bright lights that give hope and meaning to life the world over.....

Rich folks can't make money without CUSTOMERS. If rich folks only customers are other rich folks, it doesn't work out. Its like the 3rd floor in my college dormitory where everyone was selling drugs to everyone else all wondering why they weren't making any money.

There's no point in having a bunch of useless ticks who produce nothing for customers. The money they spend comes out of the hides of the rich and the middle class. How does a business benefit selling products to ticks when the money they're spending came from the people who own the business?

The 50% who don't pay taxes are the folks that stock the shelves and ring up your order when you buy foreign goods at Wal-Mart. De-humanizing then by calling them "ticks" doesn't change the fact that the customer can't really stock the shelves or unload the trucks themselves and in most cases, wouldn't want to anyway.


As far as the middle class, they tend to benefit from the tax structure when they need it most. I for one - about to become a father - will see numerous tax benefits in the form of credits and deductions. But thats fair because I've had no children for nearly 15 years of my working life and have paid taxes to support those programs for others.

Shit, please.

You're forgetting a major point. Most of those Wallyworld employees get over 20% withheld unless they take more than a standard deduction. They never see that cash as it's whisked away to earn interest for the federal government and be spent. They get some to all or MORE back when they pay taxes.

If you did a flat tax and did witholding with zero deductions possible it's very simple. Would see your gross income, minus 10% (if that's the tax rate) and the rest is yours. No second Christmas. No complicated tax forms. It's done. It's relatively painless outside of getting payola at the end of the year.

The dehumanization is reserved for people gaming the system, getting more back than they put in.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

There's no point in having a bunch of useless ticks who produce nothing for customers. The money they spend comes out of the hides of the rich and the middle class. How does a business benefit selling products to ticks when the money they're spending came from the people who own the business?

The 50% who don't pay taxes are the folks that stock the shelves and ring up your order when you buy foreign goods at Wal-Mart. De-humanizing then by calling them "ticks" doesn't change the fact that the customer can't really stock the shelves or unload the trucks themselves and in most cases, wouldn't want to anyway.


As far as the middle class, they tend to benefit from the tax structure when they need it most. I for one - about to become a father - will see numerous tax benefits in the form of credits and deductions. But thats fair because I've had no children for nearly 15 years of my working life and have paid taxes to support those programs for others.

Shit, please.

You're forgetting a major point. Most of those Wallyworld employees get over 20% withheld unless they take more than a standard deduction. They never see that cash as it's whisked away to earn interest for the federal government and be spent. They get some to all or MORE back when they pay taxes.

Dude, seriously?

You can claim exemption from withholding for the current tax year only if both the following situations apply:

For the prior tax year, you had a right to a refund of all federal income tax withheld because you had no tax liability, and
For the current tax year, you expect a refund of all federal income tax withheld because you expect to have no tax liability.

Please familiarize yourself with the federal tax code.

Tax Trails - Can You Claim Exemption From Withholding On Form W-4?

If you did a flat tax and did witholding with zero deductions possible it's very simple. Would see your gross income, minus 10% (if that's the tax rate) and the rest is yours. No second Christmas. No complicated tax forms. It's done. It's relatively painless outside of getting payola at the end of the year.

The tax return of a Wal-Mart employee isn't complicated, and if it is, its generally because they have children or other reasons for tax benefits. I'm sorry, I don't really see the selling point you have, its like

"hey, we're going to make you poor folks pay more in taxes so we don't have to hike them on the rich, but it will be really simple, so.... just, don't worry about it!"

The dehumanization is reserved for people gaming the system, getting more back than they put in.

That's not "gaming", the EITC is the law and Ronald Reagan loved it, and in fact the IRS will compute you EITC FOR you if you forget to do it. Sorry, I fail to see how someone is "gaming" the system when the IRS sends them a check with a letter that says "Oops, you forgot to claim this that we owe you!" - do you seriously expect a poor person to take a check from the federal government they didn't even ask for and tear it up?

 

[skookerasbil]

How much was I laughing this pm driving home from work........listening to a liberal governor (Cuomo) from a liberal state ( New York) stating emphatically in a major speech today, "I am not raising taxes on the people of New York State!!". I burst out laughing..........especially when I thought about this stupid-ass thread!!!

 

[The T]

How much was I laughing this pm driving home from work........listening to a liberal governor (Cuomo) from a liberal state ( New York) stating emphatically in a major speech today, "I am not raising taxes on the people of New York State!!". I burst out laughing..........especially when I thought about this stupid-ass thread!!!

Just as obama said he wasn't going to either to the people of the country.

 

[merrill]

Tax The Rich Not the Workers!

 

[Big Fitz]

The 50% who don't pay taxes are the folks that stock the shelves and ring up your order when you buy foreign goods at Wal-Mart. De-humanizing then by calling them "ticks" doesn't change the fact that the customer can't really stock the shelves or unload the trucks themselves and in most cases, wouldn't want to anyway.


As far as the middle class, they tend to benefit from the tax structure when they need it most. I for one - about to become a father - will see numerous tax benefits in the form of credits and deductions. But thats fair because I've had no children for nearly 15 years of my working life and have paid taxes to support those programs for others.

Shit, please.

You're forgetting a major point. Most of those Wallyworld employees get over 20% withheld unless they take more than a standard deduction. They never see that cash as it's whisked away to earn interest for the federal government and be spent. They get some to all or MORE back when they pay taxes.

Dude, seriously?




Please familiarize yourself with the federal tax code.

Tax Trails - Can You Claim Exemption From Withholding On Form W-4?

If you did a flat tax and did witholding with zero deductions possible it's very simple. Would see your gross income, minus 10% (if that's the tax rate) and the rest is yours. No second Christmas. No complicated tax forms. It's done. It's relatively painless outside of getting payola at the end of the year.

The tax return of a Wal-Mart employee isn't complicated, and if it is, its generally because they have children or other reasons for tax benefits. I'm sorry, I don't really see the selling point you have, its like

"hey, we're going to make you poor folks pay more in taxes so we don't have to hike them on the rich, but it will be really simple, so.... just, don't worry about it!"

The dehumanization is reserved for people gaming the system, getting more back than they put in.

That's not "gaming", the EITC is the law and Ronald Reagan loved it, and in fact the IRS will compute you EITC FOR you if you forget to do it. Sorry, I fail to see how someone is "gaming" the system when the IRS sends them a check with a letter that says "Oops, you forgot to claim this that we owe you!" - do you seriously expect a poor person to take a check from the federal government they didn't even ask for and tear it up?

That was dumb of you, but then merrill outdid you.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Do you have children? Do you take a $1000 credit per child right off the top of your federal income tax bill?

Child/dependent related credits and deductions are the big ticket items that cause what you call a lack of 'skin in the game'.

You want 'poor' people to pay more taxes, you have to get rid of those credits. Are you ready to do that?

And as usual this is where the conversation ends, because all of the 'skin in the game' people don't want to face the fact that child related deductions, exemptions, and credits are what are primarily responsible for bringing so many tax bills down to zero,

but,

if you get rid of them, you get rid of them for millions of slightly higher income Americans, and that's where many of the 'skin' people get bitten in the ass,

because in order to raise the taxes on the lowest income people, they'll have to raise their own. They'll have to raise taxes on almost everyone who has kids.

Quite the pickle...

I will not speak for my conservative and republican friends...but from myself...

I NEVER said the poor should put more skin in the game. Raising the taxes on those that are barely getting by is inhumane.

However, I dont know if you realize it NYCarbineer...but the debate was spun around somehow. NO ONE was talking about raising taxes on the poor.

When Obama started to use the "pay their fair share" mantra, people questioned how he can say that when 47% of the people pay no income tax at all.

It was not a compalint about how much the poor paid....or the fact that 47% paid nothing....

it was a complaint about him saying that those that DO pay are NOT PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE.

And once the left successfully made it about the right complaining that the poor dont pay any taxes, Obama and the left was never questioned about the real topic of the debate...how can a group of people that pay most of the tax revenue be deemed as NOT PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE.

Now...if you want to debate THAT...I am open to it.

But enough of this crap about debating something the right never complained about.

Rightwingers on this board alone complain daily about the 47% that don't pay any taxes.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Like it has been said, a flat tax does nothing but hurt the poor even further while helping the rich even more. Not surprising this would be a republican idea supported by the uneducated drones.

Abolishing the income tax helps everyone.

Have fun paying for your big giant army without the income tax.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There's no point in having a bunch of useless ticks who produce nothing for customers. The money they spend comes out of the hides of the rich and the middle class. How does a business benefit selling products to ticks when the money they're spending came from the people who own the business?

The 50% who don't pay taxes are the folks that stock the shelves and ring up your order when you buy foreign goods at Wal-Mart. De-humanizing then by calling them "ticks" doesn't change the fact that the customer can't really stock the shelves or unload the trucks themselves and in most cases, wouldn't want to anyway.


As far as the middle class, they tend to benefit from the tax structure when they need it most. I for one - about to become a father - will see numerous tax benefits in the form of credits and deductions. But thats fair because I've had no children for nearly 15 years of my working life and have paid taxes to support those programs for others.

Shit, please.

You're forgetting a major point. Most of those Wallyworld employees get over 20% withheld unless they take more than a standard deduction. They never see that cash as it's whisked away to earn interest for the federal government and be spent. They get some to all or MORE back when they pay taxes.

If you did a flat tax and did witholding with zero deductions possible it's very simple. Would see your gross income, minus 10% (if that's the tax rate) and the rest is yours. No second Christmas. No complicated tax forms. It's done. It's relatively painless outside of getting payola at the end of the year.

The dehumanization is reserved for people gaming the system, getting more back than they put in.

10% on your gross income would be a tax increase for most Americans of average or below average income.

 

[Big Fitz]

The 50% who don't pay taxes are the folks that stock the shelves and ring up your order when you buy foreign goods at Wal-Mart. De-humanizing then by calling them "ticks" doesn't change the fact that the customer can't really stock the shelves or unload the trucks themselves and in most cases, wouldn't want to anyway.


As far as the middle class, they tend to benefit from the tax structure when they need it most. I for one - about to become a father - will see numerous tax benefits in the form of credits and deductions. But thats fair because I've had no children for nearly 15 years of my working life and have paid taxes to support those programs for others.

Shit, please.

You're forgetting a major point. Most of those Wallyworld employees get over 20% withheld unless they take more than a standard deduction. They never see that cash as it's whisked away to earn interest for the federal government and be spent. They get some to all or MORE back when they pay taxes.

If you did a flat tax and did witholding with zero deductions possible it's very simple. Would see your gross income, minus 10% (if that's the tax rate) and the rest is yours. No second Christmas. No complicated tax forms. It's done. It's relatively painless outside of getting payola at the end of the year.

The dehumanization is reserved for people gaming the system, getting more back than they put in.

10% on your gross income would be a tax increase for most Americans of average or below average income.

Uhhh, newsflash. Witholding without exemptions takes about 20-25% of your paycheck. Just do the math. Most time's you keep only 80% unless you make a lot... then it gradually goes up. Work overtime and see it REALLY jump.

If they kept ONLY a flat 10% and didn't give it back regardless of what I make, I come out +10% a paycheck better making it worth my while to work more.

See, I knew some guys who swore by never working more than 20 hours of overtime because no matter what you did after that, you kept so little of your own money.

Of course, once again, "who're you gonna believe? Me or your damn lying eyes?" People keep asking me that and then wonder why I stare or laugh at them with incredulity.