Fire erupts at Chevron SoCal refinery

[HikerGuy83]

Which means zero
The safety process engineer comes up with the logo and how the safety sign shall be hanged.

I am a scientist, researcher. Aint it nice to be extremely vague to establish credentials

I am a process engineer (tech services), not PSM (process safety management) engineer. I have been the technical lead in several refinery processes and I know how refineries operate. I also am very familiar with how the markets are moving.

We have lots of new oil production but that is being sold off shore.

Some comes back in the form of imports.

But we net import already. Scientist if a vague term. I am also one.... any engineer is.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Uh, no. I let your huge error go, cause the safety process engineer, yourself, dont know the difference between a flare and an explosion

That was an explosion, you said transportation fuel? Why is the safety process engineer so vague?

Kerosene is a more accurate term.

I know what a flare is fool. We had six at the refienry I worked at and I was responsible for helping to set the design criteria for the monitoring needed for ja. There was an explosion, but there also appears to be at least two flares going off also. This refinery used to have a ground flare, but I don't know if it still operated.

A refinery makes transportation fuels, naphtha (gasoline) and distillates (jet, kero, diesel). That's what they make. What "huge" error? Moron, if you had a fire, the refinery would be shutting down and flares would be going off all over the place as they deinventory and depressure.

When the east cost had the huge regional power outage a couple of decades ago, some refinery flares has 100 ft flames.

You sure are stupid for scientist.

 

[HikerGuy83]

We need more refineries,

Based on what?

Your manufactured "increased demand"? Uh.....we are shutting them down, especially in CA. They'll make it up from offshore.

you been arguing we dont.

I've been telling you that demand is down in spite of rather large increases in population.

U.S. domestic gasoline demand 1990-2023| Statista

Domestic gasoline demand in the United States reached 141.82 billion gallons in 2023.

www.statista.com

You are a blithering idiot

And you are a wannabe scientist.

 

[elektra]

I know what a flare is fool. We had six at the refienry I worked at and I was responsible for helping to set the design criteria for the monitoring needed for ja. There was an explosion, but there also appears to be at least two flares going off also. This refinery used to have a ground flare, but I don't know if it still operated.

A refinery makes transportation fuels, naphtha (gasoline) and distillates (jet, kero, diesel). That's what they make. What "huge" error? Moron, if you had a fire, the refinery would be shutting down and flares would be going off all over the place as they deinventory and depressure.

When the east cost had the huge regional power outage a couple of decades ago, some refinery flares has 100 ft flames.

You sure are stupid for scientist.

A flare is much different than explosions. The term as used at a refinery means gas is being burnt off, on purpose.

I get it

 

[elektra]

Based on what?

Your manufactured "increased demand"? Uh.....we are shutting them down, especially in CA. They'll make it up from offshore.


I've been telling you that demand is down in spite of rather large increases ...

I been speaking of refineries, you replied to refineries, now you want to talk about gasoline specifically?

 

[elektra]

You sure are stupid for scientist.

That which is over your head I cant explain to you.

Yea, you misspoke when you replied to my comment stating we need more refineries.

I accept your tortured explanation that you are not talking about refineries

 

[elektra]

Moron, if you had a fire, the refinery would be shutting down and flares would be going off all over the place as they deinventory and depressure.

Uh, there is a difference in a fire flaring up and refineries burning gas which we call, a flare.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Uh, there is a difference in a fire flaring up and refineries burning gas which we call, a flare.

No s**t.

You don't seem to understand when flares go off.

If you have a fire in the FCC, which has a gas plant (absorber, stripper, debutanizer) you will depressure those towers as fast as you can which means you'll open a valve on the overhead accumulator that goes to flare. You don't have time to pump everything out, especially if the fire has affected your electrical or overhead pumps.

The PRV's on pressure vessels are sized based on different scenarios. Often the controlling case in the fire case where the unit is blocked in and fire causing a pressure build up. That is what sets the size of the flare, the inlet piping and tail pipe (which goes to the flare header.

Anything more you want to show your ignorance over?

 

[HikerGuy83]

I been speaking of refineries, you replied to refineries, now you want to talk about gasoline specifically?

Refineries make gasoline, jet, kero, diesel and asphault or pitch.

Gasoline demand is going down.

A refinery is generally designed to run specific types of crudes which will produce a range of gasoline/diesel ratios.

IOW you make so much diesel for every gallon of gasoline you make. You can change crudes and processing configurations, but that ratio won't change by much.

That is why diesel flips in the winter. In the spring, refineries gear up for what they call gasoline season (4 or 5 monts). That is when the most gasoline is consumed. So refineries produce an "excess" of diesel and diesel prices go soft. In the winter, gasoline consumption reduces so production is often reduced (or used to be anyway....not so much anymore) which make diesel more scarce. That is why diesel prices used to be lower than gasoline in the summer and would go above gasoline prices in the winter. Diesel or distillate demand (driven by trucking) which is much less seasonal than gasoline will be higher which drives those price inversions.

So, it doesn't really matter. If gsoline demand is down, then refining utilization is going down. Take your pick

 

[elektra]

Refineries make gasoline, jet, kero, diesel and asphault or pitch.

Gasoline demand is going down.

A refinery is generally designed to run specific types of crudes which will produce a range of gasoline/diesel ratios.

I ain't a safety engineer such as yourself but I guarantee I have gotten way dirtier working on those components you put yellow stickers on.

Gasoline use is at record highs. But that is beside the point.

We need more, new, modern refineries.

And mr safety guy, refineries make much much more than TRANSPORTATION FUELS, gasoline.

We could need zero gasoline tomorrow yet we would still need to refine the same amount of oil

 

[HikerGuy83]

I ain't a safety engineer such as yourself

I told you....I am not a safety engineer.

Flare loadings are part of typical process work.

I have sized several systems as a process engineer.

Gasoline use is at record highs. But that is beside the point.

Please provide data.

We need more, new, modern refineries.

Why? We are shutting down existing ones.

You've still never explained that.

And mr safety guy, refineries make much much more than TRANSPORTATION FUELS, gasoline.

uH....Feel free to list it them out.

We would take in 110,000 BPD and product

65,000 BPD of gasoline

10,000 BPD of kero

45,000 BPD of diesel (in some regions they will produce home heating oil but it's not a lot).

500 BPD of propane

500 BPD of normal butane

1000 BPD of slurry.

1000 PBD of pitch

So...no, oil refineries don't make much more than gasoline, kero, jet, diesel.....

If they are conntected to pretrochemical complexes, they might provide feeds stocks such as naphtha or butane to ethylene steam crackers.

 

[HikerGuy83]

We could need zero gasoline tomorrow yet we would still need to refine the same amount of oil

Oh, this should be good.

Explain this one to me.

 

[elektra]

Oh, this should be good.

Explain this one to me.

You work for refineries? How would less demand for Gasoline reduce demand for refineries and all the chemicals we use. It ain't like if we quit using gas the demand drops for those other chemicals that get separated out.

You are the safety guy, funny how I nailed that

 

[elektra]

So...no, oil refineries don't make much more than gasoline, kero, jet, diesel.....

If they are conntected to pretrochemical complexes, they might provide feeds stocks such as naphtha or butane to ethylene steam crackers.

Yes, refineries make much more, much much more. Hence demand will go up for refineries.

Your idea that there will be less demand is pure politics, nothing more.

The fact of this discussion is you think you know something cause you worked in refineries. You dont and you proved that well.

You have done nothing to prove the demand for refineries will be less in the future

 

[elektra]

Ah yes, experts, the boards are full of them.

I am the expert. Let's speculate what caused the explosion?

SCC? PWSCC? Wear? Poor PT techs? RT rushed a shot then overexposed to fake the density?

Chevron is rumored to not give a shit about the condition of the equipment.

NDE, that is where the investigation will start and end

 

[HikerGuy83]

I am the expert.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Yes, refineries make much more, much much more.

What else do oil refineries make?

 

[HikerGuy83]

How would less demand for Gasoline reduce demand for refineries and all the chemicals we use.

Petrochemical demand compared to refinery output is a single digit percentage.

You are a tech, not a scientist.

Stop wasting my time.

 

[elektra]

What else do oil refineries make?

as I said for a guy who claims to be a safety process engineer for refineries you know nothing of the product

Technically, refineries make nothing. They refineries something already made.

Refineries can be seen as industrial natural resource separators. You can agree to that yes,