Finally! Supreme Court rules in favor of First Amendment rights for Christians etc.

[Foxfyre]

No, those aren't protected classes.

But what if a black couple goes in and asks for a website and the web designer is a racist?

Or what if I go in for a service with my Asian-American fiance and we get told that the web designer believes that mixing the races is against God's plan?

Our Constitution never intended for there to be protected classes. If the Supreme Court did away with those, it would be one of the best gifts they could give this country in this century.

This debate is not about who are protected classes. It is purely about right and wrong, liberty, and what is good and just policy.

 

[martybegan]

If you can't answer the question, say so or just don't respond. I'm asking why beliefs or speech are components in a business that renders services for money.

Because people are still involved in businesses, and you don't entirely give up your 1st amendment rights just because you decide to sell something or some service.

 

[2aguy]

If you can't answer the question, say so or just don't respond. I'm asking why beliefs or speech are components in a business that renders services for money.

They aren't.......but an AMerican has inalienable Rights, as codified in the Constitution...and just because they open a business, that doesn't allow fascists like you to control them...

 

[martybegan]

Actually, it's the opposite. White males have no longer have that AA excuse for when they don't get into their chosen college or job.

Actually it was more Asian males and females being fucked over.

 

[2aguy]

And there are even more legitimate reasons for discrimination.
Telling people they have to work for someone else is another form of discrimination in that you are saying 1 side has all the rights while the other is subservient.

I have every right in the world to refuse to work for anyone I choose.
I find it sad that you have been conditioned to believe you don't have this same basic right

Telling someone they have to do work for someone else......... is slavery..............

And before anyone says that they would have recieved pay for their work, some slaves in the democrat party controlled south also recieved wages for the work they did....their masters would farm them out for pay and let them keep a tiny portion....

Slavery....democrats just can't seem to give it up....

 

[2aguy]

Actually it was more Asian males and females being fucked over.

Now if we could just get democrats to stop beating up asian senior citizens we would be in an even better place....

 

[JoeB131]

o the people too dense to understand the concept here, I will type slowly.

A proprietor sells blue, red, yellow widgets. He choose not to sell white widgets because he considers those to be against his religious beliefs or ethics or sense of right and wrong.

Everybody, even people the proprietor despises, can come into the store and order blue, red and/or yellow widgets. But according to this Supreme Court ruling, he is not required to offer white widgets regardless of who orders them.

Anybody who wants to, however, can sell white widgets.

So what do you prefer?

Liberty to run your business in a way that is right to you so long as you sell whatever products and services you have to all customers?

Or a government that can order you how you must run your business, what products you must carry, what services you must provide?

And before you answer consider that it may be a strong right wing or a strong left wing government making the policy.

Your analogy is flawed.

In this case, they proprietor is selling white widgets, but just refuses to sell them to people he doesn't like.

Because a gay wedding cake/website/floral arrangement isn't any different than a straight wedding cake, etc.

As for the government telling you what to do, um, yeah, they do that all the time, and they should.

Should a racist be allowed to not serve blacks?
Should you ignore city sanitation regulations because you feel like it. Damned government making me wash the dishes before serving!

 

[Synthaholic]

Because people are still involved in businesses, and you don't entirely give up your 1st amendment rights just because you decide to sell something or some service.

Yes I know that people are involved in businesses.

This doesn't answer the question. This should be renamed the Snowflake Decision.

 

[JoeB131]

Telling someone they have to do work for someone else......... is slavery..............

Except they don't have to do work. They have to provide the services provided.

And conversely, the customer has to pay for them.

I'm in the process of planning a wedding. Every vendor I've worked with has demanded a deposit I'm not getting back even if the wedding doesn't go through.

Business contracts have obligations on both sides.

 

[Synthaholic]

Telling someone they have to do work for someone else......... is slavery..............

So, a restaurant can refuse service to someone wearing a MAGA hat?

 

[2aguy]

Your analogy is flawed.

In this case, they proprietor is selling white widgets, but just refuses to sell them to people he doesn't like.

Because a gay wedding cake/website/floral arrangement isn't any different than a straight wedding cake, etc.

As for the government telling you what to do, um, yeah, they do that all the time, and they should.

Should a racist be allowed to not serve blacks?
Should you ignore city sanitation regulations because you feel like it. Damned government making me wash the dishes before serving!

Yeah...it is different.......it is against the religious beliefs of the creator........and we have freedom of religion in this country.....

A racist who owns a business.....if they are white, black, brown, yellow, or even green....should be able to refuse service to anyone they want...

If a Nation of Islam racist does not want to serve whites, or Asians, or Indians or Pakistanis......if a La Raza racist does not want to serve blacks, whites, asians, indians......they should not have to......the market will decide if that will be tolerated.......

Where does sanitation come in? That doesn't make any sense and is a stupid attempt to make a point...

 

[2aguy]

Except they don't have to do work. They have to provide the services provided.

And conversely, the customer has to pay for them.

I'm in the process of planning a wedding. Every vendor I've worked with has demanded a deposit I'm not getting back even if the wedding doesn't go through.

Business contracts have obligations on both sides.

Except they don't have to do work. They have to provide the services provided.


Are you drinking again..........work and providing a service is the same thing.....

Nothing in your post has any bearing on the issue...

If a contract is signed, there is no issue......we are talking about fascists like you forcing someone to sign that contract or be destroyed by the government......that is slavery.

 

[martybegan]

Yes I know that people are involved in businesses.

This doesn't answer the question. This should be renamed the Snowflake Decision.

The only snowflakes are the ones on your side that can't stand to read about said SC decision.

And it does answer the question, you just can't deal with the answer.

 

[Foxfyre]

Your analogy is flawed.

In this case, they proprietor is selling white widgets, but just refuses to sell them to people he doesn't like.

Because a gay wedding cake/website/floral arrangement isn't any different than a straight wedding cake, etc.

As for the government telling you what to do, um, yeah, they do that all the time, and they should.

Should a racist be allowed to not serve blacks?
Should you ignore city sanitation regulations because you feel like it. Damned government making me wash the dishes before serving!

Your analogy stretches the fact. Nobody is saying anybody should refuse products or services they normally carry for sale. But when a product or service that is not normally offered is requested that the proprietor does not wish to provide, the proprietor should have the right to agree or not agree to provide that product or service. If a Christian wedding service does what they consider to be Christian weddings, nobody should be able to force them to provide services/products for a different kind of wedding.

That is the case with 99.9+% of all private enterprise businesses. Many times I have to go to many different stores or businesses to get the product or service I need. It never occurs to me that I am being discriminated against because these businesses don't carry and/or aren't interested in providing whatever it is that I want.

 

[2aguy]

So, a restaurant can refuse service to someone wearing a MAGA hat?

Yes......they can.....and should be able to....it is their private property, their business........and we already have cases of fascists doing this to rebublicans and Trump supporters.....and I support their Right to do it...

 

[2aguy]

Your analogy stretches the fact. Nobody is saying anybody should refuse products or services they normally carry for sale. But when a product or service that is not normally offered is requested that the proprietor does not wish to provide, the proprietor should have the right to agree or not agree to provide that product or service.

See...I disagree....I think if you own a business you should be able to serve or not serve anyone you want........the problem in the jim crow era was you had people who didn't care about serving black people along with whites.....but the democrats...the racists....needed to stop that since those businesses would outperform the racist ones.....

A good source for this was Walter E. Williams, the economist....he used to explain the origins of jim crow......look him up...

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah...it is different.......it is against the religious beliefs of the creator........and we have freedom of religion in this country.....

You have freedom of religion.
Your business does not.

A racist who owns a business.....if they are white, black, brown, yellow, or even green....should be able to refuse service to anyone they want...

If a Nation of Islam racist does not want to serve whites, or Asians, or Indians or Pakistanis......if a La Raza racist does not want to serve blacks, whites, asians, indians......they should not have to......the market will decide if that will be tolerated.......

Except the law says otherwise.

Where does sanitation come in? That doesn't make any sense and is a stupid attempt to make a point...

the government is making the business do something to acheive a desired result.

We should just let the market decide when people get e. coli.

 

[hadit]

Tell us more about why it's just fine to discriminate. Christianity is as good a reason as any!

No shirt, no shoes, no service.

Every business discriminates, or there would be homeless squatters in every Whole Foods. Unless you're really weird, you applaud such discrimination.

 

[2aguy]

You have freedom of religion.
Your business does not.



Except the law says otherwise.


the government is making the business do something to acheive a desired result.

We should just let the market decide when people get e. coli.

Your business does as well....you are not separate from your business.......no different than your home..the government can't force you to rent rooms in your home.

Yes...fascists like you want to force businesses to bend to your will.....even racist ideas that you guys have.......

No....ecoli is damage to someone that has to be made whole...not even close to the same thing......you have nothing to argue except you want to persecute religious people, and you want to discriminate against people based on their skin color......you lost this week.....

 

[pknopp]

No shirt, no shoes, no service.

That is put right on the front door. I believe the same should have to be done here with anyone that doesn't want to serve any class in particular.