Finally a sensible response to recent school shootings

[Little-Acorn]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650198346,00.html

Gun class for Utah teachers

Free concealed-weapons session is offered today

By Ben Winslow and Jennifer Toomer-Cook
Deseret Morning News
Friday, October 13, 2006

More than a dozen teachers and public school employees will spend part of their UEA weekend in a classroom — learning how to use a gun.

Clark Aposhian is offering a free class today to public school employees seeking to get their concealed- weapons permit. "It is self-defense," he told the Deseret Morning News on Thursday. "But because teachers and school administrators and custodians are typically surrounded by students all day, any threat to any individual with a firearm would also be a threat to those students."

The concealed-weapons instructor's offer was met with opposition from some teachers and union representatives at the Utah Education Association's conference in Salt Lake City.

"We've always resisted the idea of arming school employees," said Susan Kuziak, executive director of the 18,000-member teachers union. "Though the intentions may be good, ultimately, the potential for harm is too great."

----------------------------------

EDITOR'S NOTE:
I especially like Kuziak's quote at the end. She's basically saying more harm will come from the teachers if they carry guns, than has come from the school shooters who have been murdering students for the last several months.

Not much of a vote of confidence in the members of her own union, is it? These leftists seem to always assume their supporters are complete boobs. Could they be right? - LA

:huh:

 

[dmp]

Susan Kuziak shows HORRIBLE judgement.

 

[Little-Acorn]

One of the reasons these whackos go to schools to do their killing, is because they are less likely to get shot back at, while they're doing it. Even the completely insane ones who don't care if they die, want to at least accomplish their killings before they get taken out (or kill themselves). So even they have an interest in not getting shot at while blowing others away.

How many people have tried to commit mass murder at a gun store, or at a police station? Even the ones who don't care if they die, don't try that... because they won't accomplish what they're trying to do, before getting suddenly dead.

If concealed carry by responnsible adults is allowed, most still won't carry. But a few will. And a whacko who wants to mow down a bunch of kids, will know there's a pretty good chance he'll get stopped very quickly if he pulls out his weapon and starts shooting... and he won't know where the bullet will come from, so he can't take out that person in advance. And so, he'll be less likely to even try it in the first place, knowing that he probably won't succeed.

That's the greatest advantage of concealed carry. Not just blowing away the criminal after he fires the first few shots. But in stopping him from even trying in the first place. Even though he knows that most teachers still don't have guns, he knows that one or two might... and he won't know which one(s). A far different situation from what these shooters face today at our schools.

 

[Mr. P]

This is good, and better yet, Utah law allows it!

 

[glockmail]

I support concealed carry for nearly everyone, and I'm loathe to agree with the teacher's union, but I just don't think that this is practical.

1. Too great a chance of some kid taking a gun away from a teacher while his/ her attention is diverted elsewhere- like teaching!
2. All the kids are going to know exactly which teachers carry. Secrets don't hold well in schools.


I'd say a better solution would be for metal detectors in schools, full lock-down every day, rewards to students who identify possible shooters (similar to CrimeStoppers) and open or concealed carry by maintenence and administration staff.

 

[Mr. P]

I support concealed carry for nearly everyone, and I'm loathe to agree with the teacher's union, but I just don't think that this is practical.

1. Too great a chance of some kid taking a gun away from a teacher while his/ her attention is diverted elsewhere- like teaching!
2. All the kids are going to know exactly which teachers carry. Secrets don't hold well in schools.


I'd say a better solution would be for metal detectors in schools, full lock-down every day, rewards to students who identify possible shooters (similar to CrimeStoppers) and open or concealed carry by maintenence and administration staff.

Well you have a point. On the other hand it doesn't have to be teachers that carry and it doesn't have to be public knowledge. Heck a weapon doesn't even need to be carried, lock em in the office or elsewhere. I think it's workable.

 

[nt250]

I support concealed carry for nearly everyone, and I'm loathe to agree with the teacher's union, but I just don't think that this is practical.

1. Too great a chance of some kid taking a gun away from a teacher while his/ her attention is diverted elsewhere- like teaching!
2. All the kids are going to know exactly which teachers carry. Secrets don't hold well in schools.


I'd say a better solution would be for metal detectors in schools, full lock-down every day, rewards to students who identify possible shooters (similar to CrimeStoppers) and open or concealed carry by maintenence and administration staff.

Full lock-down everyday? What's that mean?

Christ. Teachers already have an us vs them attitude when it comes to parents. Now they'll see the kids as the enemy, too.

How about we get rid of every single fucking social worker in every public school. Teach teachers that they have a right to control their own classrooms, that not every kid is carbon of every other kid, to protect the loners and fat kids from being harrassed by the bullies, and ban gym.

There would never be another school shooting by a student.

 

[Mr. P]

Full lock-down everyday? What's that mean?

....

Doors locked from outside entry is my understanding. It's done now in many places.

 

[fuzzykitten99]

i'll play debil's advocate on this one...

while I don't oppose teachers needing ways to defend themselves, I don't see how this will prevent kids or others from coming in and shooting anyway, because from the past shootings since Columbine, most of the shooters were suicidal and took their own lives as well. If they are WANTING to die, how would armed teachers stop them from bringing a gun to school or even somehow get the gun from the teacher and do it, when the want to die anyway?

 

[Avatar4321]

Maybe we should just reinstate physical punishment into schools for discipline when they are a younger age and then we wont have to worry about them ever thinking of pulling a gun in and slaughtering people.

 

[Little-Acorn]

i'll play debil's advocate on this one...

while I don't oppose teachers needing ways to defend themselves, I don't see how this will prevent kids or others from coming in and shooting anyway, because from the past shootings since Columbine, most of the shooters were suicidal and took their own lives as well. If they are WANTING to die, how would armed teachers stop them from bringing a gun to school or even somehow get the gun from the teacher and do it, when the want to die anyway?

Even the completely insane ones who don't care if they die, want to at least accomplish their killings before they get taken out (or kill themselves). So even they have an interest in not getting shot at while blowing others away.

How many people have tried to commit mass murder at a gun store, or at a police station? Even the ones who don't care if they die, don't try that... because they won't accomplish what they're trying to do, before getting suddenly dead.

If concealed carry by responsible adults is allowed, most still won't carry. But a few will. And a whacko who wants to mow down a bunch of kids, will know there's a pretty good chance he'll get stopped very quickly if he pulls out his weapon and starts shooting... and he won't know where the bullet will come from, so he can't take out that person in advance. And so, he'll be less likely to even try it in the first place, knowing that he probably won't succeed.

 

[Mr. P]

Even the completely insane ones who don't care if they die, want to at least accomplish their killings before they get taken out (or kill themselves). So even they have an interest in not getting shot at while blowing others away.

How many people have tried to commit mass murder at a gun store, or at a police station? Even the ones who don't care if they die, don't try that... because they won't accomplish what they're trying to do, before getting suddenly dead.

If concealed carry by responsible adults is allowed, most still won't carry. But a few will. And a whacko who wants to mow down a bunch of kids, will know there's a pretty good chance he'll get stopped very quickly if he pulls out his weapon and starts shooting... and he won't know where the bullet will come from, so he can't take out that person in advance. And so, he'll be less likely to even try it in the first place, knowing that he probably won't succeed.

I agree.

I really hate to see it’s come to this but it has.

I had a problem with an officer being placed in every school when my daughter was younger. It just wasn’t something anyone would ever have thought about when I was in school. That as a background made it disturbing to me, but it WAS necessary.

Now we need to arm the administration somehow.

It’s a sad statement on the state of our society.

 

[nt250]

I agree.

I really hate to see it’s come to this but it has.

I had a problem with an officer being placed in every school when my daughter was younger. It just wasn’t something anyone would ever have thought about when I was in school. That as a background made it disturbing to me, but it WAS necessary.

Now we need to arm the administration somehow.

It’s a sad statement on the state of our society.

Just eliminate PE. If gym classes were banned, that would eliminate 99% of the harrassment and bullying, which is done by both the kids and the gym teachers, and it would alleviate the stress most kids who might be prone to shooting up a school feel.

That's it. I'm not advocating eliminating sports altogether. Any kid who wants to be involved in sports can do so, but gym class should be not be mandatory, and under no circumstances should kids be forced to undress at school and shower in front of other kids.

 

[-Kt Atis-]

Just eliminate PE. If gym classes were banned, that would eliminate 99% of the harrassment and bullying, which is done by both the kids and the gym teachers, and it would alleviate the stress most kids who might be prone to shooting up a school feel.

That's it. I'm not advocating eliminating sports altogether. Any kid who wants to be involved in sports can do so, but gym class should be not be mandatory, and under no circumstances should kids be forced to undress at school and shower in front of other kids.

Bullying comes from lack of parenting and lack of understanding. And second if we canceled P.E. how would our the lazy kids of today get in shape without having someone telling them over and over?

 

[Annie]

Bullying comes from lack of parenting and lack of understanding. And second if we canceled P.E. how would our the lazy kids of today get in shape without having someone telling them over and over?

Nah, bullying comes from intuitive kids learning early which buttons to push, though I agree that is has zippo to do with pe. Granted that the victims may well hate pe, that doesn't make pe the problem. Rather the kids that are the clumsy, overweight, etc. are likely to also to be the misfits in other ways. So pe fits the bill as a 'causative factor.'

In reality, those that bully do so for control, they lack self-esteem. Those that are bullied also lack self-esteem, but also lack other qualities.

 

[nt250]

Bullying comes from lack of parenting and lack of understanding. And second if we canceled P.E. how would our the lazy kids of today get in shape without having someone telling them over and over?

Please. What are you, a teacher? Gonna blame parents for the official bullying of kids that takes place in PE class?

I'm 47 so I have no idea what PE is like today, but back in my school days it was torture. And not just for the fat kids and the outcasts. Gym should be banned. And that alone would go a long way towards preventing bullying, and relieving the stress the average kid goes through at school. If kids want to play sports, let them. But gym class should be stopped. Making kids get undressed at school is not worth the 37 minutes, three times a week, they are humiliated by gym teachers.

 

[Mr. P]

Please. What are you, a teacher? Gonna blame parents for the official bullying of kids that takes place in PE class?

I'm 47 so I have no idea what PE is like today, but back in my school days it was torture. And not just for the fat kids and the outcasts. Gym should be banned. And that alone would go a long way towards preventing bullying, and relieving the stress the average kid goes through at school. If kids want to play sports, let them. But gym class should be stopped. Making kids get undressed at school is not worth the 37 minutes, three times a week, they are humiliated by gym teachers.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Yeah and so should homework over summer break, right?

You may be a fine person, but you really sound that a total idiot sometimes.

 

[nt250]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Yeah and so should homework over summer break, right?

You may be a fine person, but you really sound that a total idiot sometimes.

Sorry, but I grew up just fine without ever having homework in the summer.

What was your childhood like?

I think it's a crime how kids grow up today. A real shame. Kids today will never know the kind of freedom that I knew and I think it's just a real shame.

 

[glockmail]

Full lock-down everyday? What's that mean?

Christ. Teachers already have an us vs them attitude when it comes to parents. Now they'll see the kids as the enemy, too.

How about we get rid of every single f[...] social worker in every public school. Teach teachers that they have a right to control their own classrooms, that not every kid is carbon of every other kid, to protect the loners and fat kids from being harrassed by the bullies, and ban gym.

There would never be another school shooting by a student.

Full lock down means all doors are locked except the main entrance, which is constantly watched, just like all major retail stores.

I agree teachers should have the right to discipline the kids, with major punishment metted out by the VP, just like it was in my day. And if the parents complain- go right to a dicipline committee on the school board, and then suspend the kid with justification.

Zero tolerance for bullies. Cameras everywhere. Push or punch= suspension.

No gym- you're crazy. Its the only activity some of these lazy kids ever see.

 

[glockmail]

Maybe we should just reinstate physical punishment into schools for discipline when they are a younger age and then we wont have to worry about them ever thinking of pulling a gun in and slaughtering people.

I'm a firm believer in corporal punishment for the younger kids, but it has to be metted out by a parent. The schools should teach this to parents with unruly kids.