Fewer doctors take Medicare

[The Rabbi]

What's the better alternative? Let seniors who can afford market prices get healthcare, and the rest go without?

Is that really the kind of society you want to live in? Where the market becomes the death panel?

Yeah, everyone should have the same shitty substandard health care. Hey, it's "equal" and "fair"!

You didn't answer the question. What's the better alternative?

Just say "let them die" already, you know you want to.

The Ryan plan. Actually any plan. Actually doing nothing would have been better by far.

 

[bendog]

WHen you limit price you increase demand and decrease supply, leading to shortages. This is Econ 101, a subject Democrats seem to have flunked.
Why does anyone think Obamacare will somehow repeal laws of economics?
More Doctors Steer Clear of Medicare - Yahoo! Finance

Perhaps this is why Obamacare also increases the supply of doctors.

 

[The Rabbi]

WHen you limit price you increase demand and decrease supply, leading to shortages. This is Econ 101, a subject Democrats seem to have flunked.
Why does anyone think Obamacare will somehow repeal laws of economics?
More Doctors Steer Clear of Medicare - Yahoo! Finance

Perhaps this is why Obamacare also increases the supply of doctors.

They mint them somewhere?

 

[bendog]

WHen you limit price you increase demand and decrease supply, leading to shortages. This is Econ 101, a subject Democrats seem to have flunked.
Why does anyone think Obamacare will somehow repeal laws of economics?
More Doctors Steer Clear of Medicare - Yahoo! Finance

Perhaps this is why Obamacare also increases the supply of doctors.

They mint them somewhere?

yeah, genius.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yeah, everyone should have the same shitty substandard health care. Hey, it's "equal" and "fair"!

You didn't answer the question. What's the better alternative?

Just say "let them die" already, you know you want to.

The Ryan plan. Actually any plan. Actually doing nothing would have been better by far.

The Ryan plan shortened the solvency projection for Medicare to 2016.

 

[The Rabbi]

Perhaps this is why Obamacare also increases the supply of doctors.

They mint them somewhere?

yeah, genius.

Translation: I have no idea what I'm talking about but I heard it somewhere in the MSM so it must be true.

 

[The Rabbi]

You didn't answer the question. What's the better alternative?

Just say "let them die" already, you know you want to.

The Ryan plan. Actually any plan. Actually doing nothing would have been better by far.

The Ryan plan shortened the solvency projection for Medicare to 2016.

Link?

 

[Vox]

But with our present system, Rabid can proudly point out

Based on how WHO scores these things I'd be happier being about NUmber 500.
When it comes to responding to actual illness and outcomes, the U.S. ranks #1.

Real nice lie there, Rabid, old boy.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Life expectancy

US ranks # 51

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2223rank.html

Maternal mortality

US ranks #47

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

Infant mortality

US ranks # 50

You really should do some research before flapping your stupid yap, Rabid. Those are hardly first rate results.

WHy do you need to lie constantly?

Or you do not know how to distinguish those ranks?

 

[Vox]

Perhaps this is why Obamacare also increases the supply of doctors.

They mint them somewhere?

yeah, genius.

maybe you can tell where?

hint - take into consideration how residencies are funded

 

[Fishlore]

WHen you limit price you increase demand and decrease supply, leading to shortages. This is Econ 101, a subject Democrats seem to have flunked.
Why does anyone think Obamacare will somehow repeal laws of economics?
More Doctors Steer Clear of Medicare - Yahoo! Finance

The folks who cite "Econ 101" apparently never got to second semester Econ 102. Medical economics is a lot more complicated that the lemonade-stand rules of supply and demand.

For starters, medical care is "price inelastic." Then there is the complicating factor that most major medical bills are paid by a third party, whether private insurance or a government program.

On top of that, medical practice is being revolutionized by technology and its economic consequences. Whereas over half of MDs were in private practice just ten years ago, now fewer than 30% are.

What is happening to the medical sector is bit like what happened to education in the late 19th century. Back then, almost all secondar schools were private academies, although tuition was usually paid by the town for resident children. High school teacher made more money than either doctors or lawyers. In huge parts of the country, only a small minority of kids went to high school.

Then state after state began raising the school leaving age and huge numbers of kids began attending public high schools. Teaching became a bureaucratized function of government rather than a learned profession. Teaching salaries began to fall behind other occupations with similar certification requirements. Teaching went from a high profession like lawyer, doctor or minister to a low profession like nurse or policeman.

The American medical profession and the role of the MD within it has changed rapidly. The fee-for-service structure is economically obsolete in a world where the services are delivered not by the family doctor with his little black bag but by teams of technicians and specialists operating million-dollar laboratories.

The rest of the advanced First World has figured this out and is several generations ahead of the USA in coverage, quality and cost control. We are paying twice as much as any other country for medical care per capita with over 40 million people outside the insurance system and outcomes that well below EU countries and other English-speaking nations. Pathetic

 

[The Rabbi]

Based on how WHO scores these things I'd be happier being about NUmber 500.
When it comes to responding to actual illness and outcomes, the U.S. ranks #1.

Real nice lie there, Rabid, old boy.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Life expectancy

US ranks # 51

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2223rank.html

Maternal mortality

US ranks #47

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

Infant mortality

US ranks # 50

You really should do some research before flapping your stupid yap, Rabid. Those are hardly first rate results.

WHy do you need to lie constantly?

Or you do not know how to distinguish those ranks?

It's because the dunderhead is bad at reading and interpreting what he reads.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Ryan plan. Actually any plan. Actually doing nothing would have been better by far.

The Ryan plan shortened the solvency projection for Medicare to 2016.

Link?

Why would you need a link unless you don't even know what the Ryan plan was?

lolol

 

[Vox]

WHen you limit price you increase demand and decrease supply, leading to shortages. This is Econ 101, a subject Democrats seem to have flunked.
Why does anyone think Obamacare will somehow repeal laws of economics?
More Doctors Steer Clear of Medicare - Yahoo! Finance

The folks who cite "Econ 101" apparently never got to second semester Econ 102. Medical economics is a lot more complicated that the lemonade-stand rules of supply and demand.

For starters, medical care is "price inelastic." Then there is the complicating factor that most major medical bills are paid by a third party, whether private insurance or a government program.

On top of that, medical practice is being revolutionized by technology and its economic consequences. Whereas over half of MDs were in private practice just ten years ago, now fewer than 30% are.

What is happening to the medical sector is bit like what happened to education in the late 19th century. Back then, almost all secondar schools were private academies, although tuition was usually paid by the town for resident children. High school teacher made more money than either doctors or lawyers. In huge parts of the country, only a small minority of kids went to high school.

Then state after state began raising the school leaving age and huge numbers of kids began attending public high schools. Teaching became a bureaucratized function of government rather than a learned profession. Teaching salaries began to fall behind other occupations with similar certification requirements. Teaching went from a high profession like lawyer, doctor or minister to a low profession like nurse or policeman.

The American medical profession and the role of the MD within it has changed rapidly. The fee-for-service structure is economically obsolete in a world where the services are delivered not by the family doctor with his little black bag but by teams of technicians and specialists operating million-dollar laboratories.

The rest of the advanced First World has figured this out and is several generations ahead of the USA in coverage, quality and cost control. We are paying twice as much as any other country for medical care per capita with over 40 million people outside the insurance system and outcomes that well below EU countries and other English-speaking nations. Pathetic

where do you get this lying shit?

we don't have VA at every corner

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is just a preview of coming attractions for ObamaCare.

I expect we'll see more and more doctors move to concierge-subscription services which eschew insurance altogether.

If Obamacare puts more people on to private insurance, how exactly does anything that happens with Medicare become a "preview of coming attractions for Obamacare" ?

I know you won't answer, but I just wanted to highlight once again how clueless you are.

Ocare puts fewer people on private insurance. Where did you come up with yet another outrageously incorrect and stupid opinion? Did your dog whisper it to you?

It's called "wishful thinking".
A trait of true believers.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That's the solution.

If the doctors here don't like it, we can import thousands of doctors from overseas who'd be happy to making a fraction of what American doctors make.

just do not complain about the fraction of quality and fraction of results

The simple fact that healthcare of comparable quality to current US healthcare is being delivered all over the world at prices much lower than what are paid in the US PROVES that our healthcare is overpriced.

And what is the root cause of the high cost of medical care?
The talking point response of "greed" is unacceptable.

 

[bendog]

just do not complain about the fraction of quality and fraction of results

The simple fact that healthcare of comparable quality to current US healthcare is being delivered all over the world at prices much lower than what are paid in the US PROVES that our healthcare is overpriced.

And what is the root cause of the high cost of medical care?
The talking point response of "greed" is unacceptable.

Well, while the gop has no current interest in setting forth an alternative, back when they did, both the dems and gops relied, in part, on the notion that providers CAN provide treatment cheaper than the currently do per procedure. The various proposals aimed at having less uncompensated (uninsured) treatment and increasing the bargaining power of the insurors and decreasing the bargaining power of the providers.

Of course the current thread is simply about doing nothing ... and hoping Obamacare fails.

 

[thereisnospoon]

For Doctors to obtain hospital privileges they have to be providers for both Medicare and Medicaid so where do you your information that so many don't take these insurances anymore?

That's the issue. Doctors are eschewing hospitals as places of business.
They no longer want the hassle and bureaucratic nightmares that come with practicing in hospitals.

 

[The Rabbi]

The Ryan plan shortened the solvency projection for Medicare to 2016.

Link?

Why would you need a link unless you don't even know what the Ryan plan was?

lolol

Translation: I pulled that "fact" out of my azz.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is just a preview of coming attractions for ObamaCare.

I expect we'll see more and more doctors move to concierge-subscription services which eschew insurance altogether.

If Obamacare puts more people on to private insurance, how exactly does anything that happens with Medicare become a "preview of coming attractions for Obamacare" ?

I know you won't answer, but I just wanted to highlight once again how clueless you are.

"if".....Big word. Very important.
The fact is ACA is designed to all but eliminate private health insurance.

 

[The Rabbi]

The simple fact that healthcare of comparable quality to current US healthcare is being delivered all over the world at prices much lower than what are paid in the US PROVES that our healthcare is overpriced.

And what is the root cause of the high cost of medical care?
The talking point response of "greed" is unacceptable.

Well, while the gop has no current interest in setting forth an alternative, back when they did, both the dems and gops relied, in part, on the notion that providers CAN provide treatment cheaper than the currently do per procedure. The various proposals aimed at having less uncompensated (uninsured) treatment and increasing the bargaining power of the insurors and decreasing the bargaining power of the providers.

Of course the current thread is simply about doing nothing ... and hoping Obamacare fails.

Avoiding the question I see.

No, this thread is about how more doctors are opting out of providing Medicare because reimbursements are too low. This is the same dynamic that will drive Obamacare, dictating to providers what they must charge. The result of setting prices below market is to increase demand and increase supply--creating a shortage. The shortage is dealt with by rationing.
This is teh same dynamic every care system in Western Europe has found, along with systems used here in different states.
Imagining that Obamacare will somehow be different this time is the triumph of dope over experience.