Federalism: The Way America Was

[Procrustes Stretched]

1. “The framers of the Constitution combined the best political ideas from the past with what “The Federalist” called an improved science of politics: federalism, separation of powers, and checks and balances. Doing so, they created a form of government which had, in the words of James Madison, ‘no model on the face of the earth.’
Larry P. Arnn, Hillsdale College.

2. Our Founders envisioned the states as laboratories of democracy and enshrined into our Constitution the principle of federalism. Under federalist principles, the American people endowed the national government with a defined set of limited, enumerated powers in the Constitution. Any powers beyond those specifically given to the federal government fall entirely within the province of the states. Federalism protects liberty by protecting against the overreaching of any one branch of our federal government, and is part of the uniquely American system of checks and balances.
Paloma Zepeda, "Reinventing the Right."

...and from day one of the new nation the people who actually wrote "The Federalist" to the people of the state of New York, disagreed over how to use those federal powers and exactly how narrowly or broadly they should be defined.

The people who wrote The federalist did not get all of what they wanted in the US Constitution, yet they agreed to band together to pass a compromise. The US Constitution is a flawed document. Nothing is perfect.


The Federalist Society was started in the 1970s by people with an agenda who have fed garbage to the people for decades now. They embrace Federalism while cherry picking what they will (familiar?) from Hamilton and Madison.

re: during ratification, Madison and Hamilton were Federalists battling the anti-Federalists. Madison ended up joining Jefferson and others in forming a 'faction' a 'party' .... ... the Democratic-Republican Party, while Hamilton and his people became the Federalist Party

".... how to use those federal powers...."
Powers?
What powers???
Your bud Sal-monella said, in the second or third post that the Constitution gave no powers.
You guys should work this out.....I'll hold your coats.....

way to avoid the issue

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

try again Chicie

1. “The framers of the Constitution combined the best political ideas from the past with what “The Federalist” called an improved science of politics: federalism, separation of powers, and checks and balances. Doing so, they created a form of government which had, in the words of James Madison, ‘no model on the face of the earth.’
Larry P. Arnn, Hillsdale College.

2. Our Founders envisioned the states as laboratories of democracy and enshrined into our Constitution the principle of federalism. Under federalist principles, the American people endowed the national government with a defined set of limited, enumerated powers in the Constitution. Any powers beyond those specifically given to the federal government fall entirely within the province of the states. Federalism protects liberty by protecting against the overreaching of any one branch of our federal government, and is part of the uniquely American system of checks and balances.
Paloma Zepeda, "Reinventing the Right."

...and from day one of the new nation the people who actually wrote "The Federalist" to the people of the state of New York, disagreed over how to use those federal powers and exactly how narrowly or broadly they should be defined.

The people who wrote The federalist did not get all of what they wanted in the US Constitution, yet they agreed to band together to pass a compromise. The US Constitution is a flawed document. Nothing is perfect.


The Federalist Society was started in the 1970s by people with an agenda who have fed garbage to the people for decades now. They embrace Federalism while cherry picking what they will (familiar?) from Hamilton and Madison.

re: during ratification, Madison and Hamilton were Federalists battling the anti-Federalists. Madison ended up joining Jefferson and others in forming a 'faction' a 'party' .... ... the Democratic-Republican Party, while Hamilton and his people became the Federalist Party

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

For the Supreme Court to begin rolling back the federalization of the country would be a huge helpful step in reversing much of the damage that has been done. But I continue to watch and not get my hopes up a great deal in these things. Not after the Kelo vs New London ruling. Or the more recent one on Obamacare. But maybe even the Justices themselves are becoming aware and conscious of how abuse of power at any level is destructive and unAmerican and are taking their personal responsibility more seriously? We can hope.

What about CITIZENS UNITED?

KELO and Obamacare clearly ruled unconstitutional acts to be constitutional, but so did CITIZENS. It doesn't get much more federalist than black robed federal legislators overturning in some cases more than a hundred years worth of state prohibitions against unlimited and/or undocumented corporate money in politics.

Further, it disappointed me that states wanting term limits didn't simply nullify SCOTUS ruling on term limits. Been easy to do by simply not placing term-limited congressfolk on ballots. That would have forced a constitutional crisis that almost certainly would have resulted in state victories given that there is NO BASIS for a national ruling on who a state sends to congress as long as legitimate national interests against discrimination, etc., are satisfied.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

try again Chicie

1. “The framers of the Constitution combined the best political ideas from the past with what “The Federalist” called an improved science of politics: federalism, separation of powers, and checks and balances. Doing so, they created a form of government which had, in the words of James Madison, ‘no model on the face of the earth.’
Larry P. Arnn, Hillsdale College.

2. Our Founders envisioned the states as laboratories of democracy and enshrined into our Constitution the principle of federalism. Under federalist principles, the American people endowed the national government with a defined set of limited, enumerated powers in the Constitution. Any powers beyond those specifically given to the federal government fall entirely within the province of the states. Federalism protects liberty by protecting against the overreaching of any one branch of our federal government, and is part of the uniquely American system of checks and balances.
Paloma Zepeda, "Reinventing the Right."

...and from day one of the new nation the people who actually wrote "The Federalist" to the people of the state of New York, disagreed over how to use those federal powers and exactly how narrowly or broadly they should be defined.

The people who wrote The federalist did not get all of what they wanted in the US Constitution, yet they agreed to band together to pass a compromise. The US Constitution is a flawed document. Nothing is perfect.


The Federalist Society was started in the 1970s by people with an agenda who have fed garbage to the people for decades now. They embrace Federalism while cherry picking what they will (familiar?) from Hamilton and Madison.

re: during ratification, Madison and Hamilton were Federalists battling the anti-Federalists. Madison ended up joining Jefferson and others in forming a 'faction' a 'party' .... ... the Democratic-Republican Party, while Hamilton and his people became the Federalist Party

This thread is yet another example of the tedious pointlessness of engaging the extreme right on the subject.

That the Constitution affords Congress powers both enumerated and implied is settled and accepted case law dating beck to the Foundation Era, as Justice Kennedy correctly notes citing McCulloch.

“But that’s not in the Constitution” is ignorant idiocy, as the Constitution exist only in the context of its case law.

Rather than engaging in meaningful debate as to the constitutionality of a given measure passed by Congress in the context of McCulloch, the right instead whines about how the High Court has ‘gotten it wrong’ the last 200 years and that this entire body of case law must be ignored, rejected, and replaced with their subjective and partisan perception of the Founding Document, absent any judicial interpretive authority whatsoever.

Again: tedious and pointless.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Post #44

C_Clayton_Jones

 

[PoliticalChic]

try again Chicie

1. “The framers of the Constitution combined the best political ideas from the past with what “The Federalist” called an improved science of politics: federalism, separation of powers, and checks and balances. Doing so, they created a form of government which had, in the words of James Madison, ‘no model on the face of the earth.’
Larry P. Arnn, Hillsdale College.

2. Our Founders envisioned the states as laboratories of democracy and enshrined into our Constitution the principle of federalism. Under federalist principles, the American people endowed the national government with a defined set of limited, enumerated powers in the Constitution. Any powers beyond those specifically given to the federal government fall entirely within the province of the states. Federalism protects liberty by protecting against the overreaching of any one branch of our federal government, and is part of the uniquely American system of checks and balances.
Paloma Zepeda, "Reinventing the Right."

...and from day one of the new nation the people who actually wrote "The Federalist" to the people of the state of New York, disagreed over how to use those federal powers and exactly how narrowly or broadly they should be defined.

The people who wrote The federalist did not get all of what they wanted in the US Constitution, yet they agreed to band together to pass a compromise. The US Constitution is a flawed document. Nothing is perfect.


The Federalist Society was started in the 1970s by people with an agenda who have fed garbage to the people for decades now. They embrace Federalism while cherry picking what they will (familiar?) from Hamilton and Madison.

re: during ratification, Madison and Hamilton were Federalists battling the anti-Federalists. Madison ended up joining Jefferson and others in forming a 'faction' a 'party' .... ... the Democratic-Republican Party, while Hamilton and his people became the Federalist Party

This thread is yet another example of the tedious pointlessness of engaging the extreme right on the subject.

That the Constitution affords Congress powers both enumerated and implied is settled and accepted case law dating beck to the Foundation Era, as Justice Kennedy correctly notes citing McCulloch.

“But that’s not in the Constitution” is ignorant idiocy, as the Constitution exist only in the context of its case law.

Rather than engaging in meaningful debate as to the constitutionality of a given measure passed by Congress in the context of McCulloch, the right instead whines about how the High Court has ‘gotten it wrong’ the last 200 years and that this entire body of case law must be ignored, rejected, and replaced with their subjective and partisan perception of the Founding Document, absent any judicial interpretive authority whatsoever.

Again: tedious and pointless.

":...case law...."

Those who accept case law as equal or even superior to the words of the Constitution are power hungry frauds.


Raise your paw, C_Chamber_Pot.

 

[Sallow]

1. "The Constitution has no specific federal powers."

Your posts regularly approximate a third grader attempting to be relevant in a graduate school program.

Worse,....when corrected, you refuse to learn from the corrections.

Let's see:
"The enumerated powers are a list of items found in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution that set forth the authoritative capacity of Congress.[1] In summary, Congress may exercise the powers that the Constitution grants it, subject to explicit restrictions in the Bill of Rights and other protections in the Constitution. The Tenth Amendment states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Enumerated powers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Take a class in civics..PC.

Get out of the FOX box every once in a while.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The tenth is a "catch all" and was never meant to assert that States were more powerful then the central government. It was meant to allow states to decide on issues not specifically covered in the Constitution..like say..prostitution. Or gambling.

The Constitution, for all intents and purposes, is supreme.

"The Constitution has no specific federal powers."
Who was the dope who said that?

Oh...right...you did.


But it seems you are actually educable....you didn't repeat it.



Both of your oars are in the water,.... but on the same side of the boat.

It doesn't.


Take the power to "regulate commerce" under section 8 of the Constitution. That's extremely broad and unspecific. Commerce is a huge and very complex thing. You could write thousands of pages of some very specific parts of it to regulate. That's NOT what the founders did. And there was plenty of debate about it.

And it also sorts of illustrates what the 10 amendment was all about. There are issues better left to state to decide. Take commerce, for example. Commerce in Florida is not going to be the same as commerce in Alaska, and for numerous reasons. One of the great things about the Constitution is that it "anticipates" this. That's might be a bit too nuanced for you to digest at this point in time..

Seriously..do you know what the word education means? Or what specific means? Or broad? Or the difference between the two?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Take a class in civics..PC.

Get out of the FOX box every once in a while.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The tenth is a "catch all" and was never meant to assert that States were more powerful then the central government. It was meant to allow states to decide on issues not specifically covered in the Constitution..like say..prostitution. Or gambling.

The Constitution, for all intents and purposes, is supreme.

"The Constitution has no specific federal powers."
Who was the dope who said that?

Oh...right...you did.


But it seems you are actually educable....you didn't repeat it.



Both of your oars are in the water,.... but on the same side of the boat.

It doesn't.


Take the power to "regulate commerce" under section 8 of the Constitution. That's extremely broad and unspecific. Commerce is a huge and very complex thing. You could write thousands of pages of some very specific parts of it to regulate. That's NOT what the founders did. And there was plenty of debate about it.

And it also sorts of illustrates what the 10 amendment was all about. There are issues better left to state to decide. Take commerce, for example. Commerce in Florida is not going to be the same as commerce in Alaska, and for numerous reasons. One of the great things about the Constitution is that it "anticipates" this. That's might be a bit too nuanced for you to digest at this point in time..

Seriously..do you know what the word education means? Or what specific means? Or broad? Or the difference between the two?

Why are you wasting your time....

...better get that email off to the folks at Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The enumerated powers are a list of items found in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution that set forth the authoritative capacity of Congress.[1] In summary, Congress may exercise the powers that the Constitution grants it, subject to explicit restrictions in the Bill of Rights and other protections in the Constitution. The Tenth Amendment states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Enumerated powers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And after that one....

"The powers allocated to the federal government in the U.S. Constitution were highly important and carefully enumerated. The U.S. Constitution lists only twenty enumerated powers assigned to the federal government. These 20 enumerated powers are as follows:

Coin and regulate the value of money.
Administer the seat of government.
Tax.
Borrow.
Spend.
Punish crimes on the high seas.
Establish federal courts.
Pass copyright and patent laws.
Raise and finance armed forces.
Establish bankruptcy laws.
Establish rules for citizenship.
Call up state militias.
Administer federal lands.
Establish rules for the armed forces.
Establish a postal system.
Regulate commerce.
Standardize weights and measures.
Punish counterfeiting.
Declare war.
Pass laws to implement the above.
The 10th Amendment was specifically placed in the U.S. Constitution to remind the federal government of these enumerated powers and that it has no authority in any area not specifically described in the U.S. Constitution. The Founding Fathers feared that federal agencies would try to usurp powers reserved for the states or the people."
US Constitution gives the federal government only 20 enumerated powers | PolyMontana



Note to Side-Show Sal....

The use of the word 'Seriously' in your post does not alleviate the problem of being saddled with a bird-brain.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

try again Chicie

1. “The framers of the Constitution combined the best political ideas from the past with what “The Federalist” called an improved science of politics: federalism, separation of powers, and checks and balances. Doing so, they created a form of government which had, in the words of James Madison, ‘no model on the face of the earth.’
Larry P. Arnn, Hillsdale College.

2. Our Founders envisioned the states as laboratories of democracy and enshrined into our Constitution the principle of federalism. Under federalist principles, the American people endowed the national government with a defined set of limited, enumerated powers in the Constitution. Any powers beyond those specifically given to the federal government fall entirely within the province of the states. Federalism protects liberty by protecting against the overreaching of any one branch of our federal government, and is part of the uniquely American system of checks and balances.
Paloma Zepeda, "Reinventing the Right."

...and from day one of the new nation the people who actually wrote "The Federalist" to the people of the state of New York, disagreed over how to use those federal powers and exactly how narrowly or broadly they should be defined.

The people who wrote The federalist did not get all of what they wanted in the US Constitution, yet they agreed to band together to pass a compromise. The US Constitution is a flawed document. Nothing is perfect.


The Federalist Society was started in the 1970s by people with an agenda who have fed garbage to the people for decades now. They embrace Federalism while cherry picking what they will (familiar?) from Hamilton and Madison.

re: during ratification, Madison and Hamilton were Federalists battling the anti-Federalists. Madison ended up joining Jefferson and others in forming a 'faction' a 'party' .... ... the Democratic-Republican Party, while Hamilton and his people became the Federalist Party

Madison fought with Jefferson and others who pushed democratic, and philosophical principles no matter the consequences, no matter how insane when taken to their logical conclusions.

Daffy Jefferson argued because of the amendment process "the ultimate arbiter is the people of the Union" on disputes between states and citizens, even when federal rights were involved. He did this trying to convince people that the Supreme Court was not the final arbiter of disputes between states and their citizens.

Madison sided with Chief Justice Marshall over the role of the Supreme Court being the final arbiter between states and the nation.

Hamilton fought with Jefferson and Madison over whether the Congress had the power to charter a national bank to deal with among other things, the Revolutionary War debt. Washington was with Hamilton. The bank was chartered and Madison later signs the charter for a second national bank.

funny how people like PoliChicster cherry pick things and appeal to what the founders, framers, and ratifiers thought. Many like Madison, changed their minds because of pragmatism and reason. Madison also changed his mind as he got old and daft. Some like Jefferson put forth arguments that would destroy the union while upholding principle. Yet, even daft old Jefferson while in power acted quite differently at times than did the Jefferson who was the writer of principles.

When Jefferson argued for state nullification and even the right of secession, Madison argued Jefferson should back off this lunacy. In his later years Madison spoke and seemed to give encouragement to the radical Southern secessionists who wanted to bolt over the rights to trade and own slaves.

Jefferson was also a fringe thinker in backing the French terror.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

...

bump​

 

[Sallow]

"The Constitution has no specific federal powers."
Who was the dope who said that?

Oh...right...you did.


But it seems you are actually educable....you didn't repeat it.



Both of your oars are in the water,.... but on the same side of the boat.

It doesn't.


Take the power to "regulate commerce" under section 8 of the Constitution. That's extremely broad and unspecific. Commerce is a huge and very complex thing. You could write thousands of pages of some very specific parts of it to regulate. That's NOT what the founders did. And there was plenty of debate about it.

And it also sorts of illustrates what the 10 amendment was all about. There are issues better left to state to decide. Take commerce, for example. Commerce in Florida is not going to be the same as commerce in Alaska, and for numerous reasons. One of the great things about the Constitution is that it "anticipates" this. That's might be a bit too nuanced for you to digest at this point in time..

Seriously..do you know what the word education means? Or what specific means? Or broad? Or the difference between the two?

Why are you wasting your time....

...better get that email off to the folks at Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The enumerated powers are a list of items found in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution that set forth the authoritative capacity of Congress.[1] In summary, Congress may exercise the powers that the Constitution grants it, subject to explicit restrictions in the Bill of Rights and other protections in the Constitution. The Tenth Amendment states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Enumerated powers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And after that one....

"The powers allocated to the federal government in the U.S. Constitution were highly important and carefully enumerated. The U.S. Constitution lists only twenty enumerated powers assigned to the federal government. These 20 enumerated powers are as follows:

Coin and regulate the value of money.
Administer the seat of government.
Tax.
Borrow.
Spend.
Punish crimes on the high seas.
Establish federal courts.
Pass copyright and patent laws.
Raise and finance armed forces.
Establish bankruptcy laws.
Establish rules for citizenship.
Call up state militias.
Administer federal lands.
Establish rules for the armed forces.
Establish a postal system.
Regulate commerce.
Standardize weights and measures.
Punish counterfeiting.
Declare war.
Pass laws to implement the above.
The 10th Amendment was specifically placed in the U.S. Constitution to remind the federal government of these enumerated powers and that it has no authority in any area not specifically described in the U.S. Constitution. The Founding Fathers feared that federal agencies would try to usurp powers reserved for the states or the people."
US Constitution gives the federal government only 20 enumerated powers | PolyMontana



Note to Side-Show Sal....

The use of the word 'Seriously' in your post does not alleviate the problem of being saddled with a bird-brain.

Do you read what you cut and paste?

 

[PoliticalChic]

It doesn't.


Take the power to "regulate commerce" under section 8 of the Constitution. That's extremely broad and unspecific. Commerce is a huge and very complex thing. You could write thousands of pages of some very specific parts of it to regulate. That's NOT what the founders did. And there was plenty of debate about it.

And it also sorts of illustrates what the 10 amendment was all about. There are issues better left to state to decide. Take commerce, for example. Commerce in Florida is not going to be the same as commerce in Alaska, and for numerous reasons. One of the great things about the Constitution is that it "anticipates" this. That's might be a bit too nuanced for you to digest at this point in time..

Seriously..do you know what the word education means? Or what specific means? Or broad? Or the difference between the two?

Why are you wasting your time....

...better get that email off to the folks at Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The enumerated powers are a list of items found in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution that set forth the authoritative capacity of Congress.[1] In summary, Congress may exercise the powers that the Constitution grants it, subject to explicit restrictions in the Bill of Rights and other protections in the Constitution. The Tenth Amendment states that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Enumerated powers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And after that one....

"The powers allocated to the federal government in the U.S. Constitution were highly important and carefully enumerated. The U.S. Constitution lists only twenty enumerated powers assigned to the federal government. These 20 enumerated powers are as follows:

Coin and regulate the value of money.
Administer the seat of government.
Tax.
Borrow.
Spend.
Punish crimes on the high seas.
Establish federal courts.
Pass copyright and patent laws.
Raise and finance armed forces.
Establish bankruptcy laws.
Establish rules for citizenship.
Call up state militias.
Administer federal lands.
Establish rules for the armed forces.
Establish a postal system.
Regulate commerce.
Standardize weights and measures.
Punish counterfeiting.
Declare war.
Pass laws to implement the above.
The 10th Amendment was specifically placed in the U.S. Constitution to remind the federal government of these enumerated powers and that it has no authority in any area not specifically described in the U.S. Constitution. The Founding Fathers feared that federal agencies would try to usurp powers reserved for the states or the people."
US Constitution gives the federal government only 20 enumerated powers | PolyMontana



Note to Side-Show Sal....

The use of the word 'Seriously' in your post does not alleviate the problem of being saddled with a bird-brain.

Do you read what you cut and paste?

I must agree, this barren post of yours is far more intelligent than the one where you actually wrote:

"The Constitution has no specific federal powers."

Obfuscation is actually a step in the right direction for you.