Federal Reserve: Americans $9 Trillion Richer...

[8537]

There has not been a budget passed by this president...EVER! The one that you CLAIM was Obama's was actually the last budget submitted by Bush as a 1.2 trillion dollar budget and BLOATED to 3.6 by the democrats to include giveaways, bailouts and paybacks to Obama's supporters.

Oh my! The final Bush budget was 1.2 Trillion dollars and Obama bloated it to 3.6 Trillion?

That's an amazing bit of research on your part, JD. You should alert Congress, the CBO, and the Treasury Department.

 

[8537]

Obama spent 800 billion in one blow. And that was completely borrowed.

No, that's not right. The stimulus bill was about 500B in spending and 300B in tax cuts. Surely you don't consider tax cuts spending?

And on top of that, the spending in the stimulus was spread over three years. IIRC, the impact on year one budget was about 175B.

And on top of that, Bush handed out 350B to banks. Remember?

Wow, what a moron.
Do you think tax cuts are free?

No, I don't think tax cuts are free. That was Reagan's team.

Bush did not hand out 350b to banks. That is simply false. Another lie by the most ill-informed poster on this site.

Bush handed out 350B to banks and other financial institutions. Oh, and he approved backing several trillion worth of assets.

Are you still sticking by your claim that the 120,000 jobs created is not a net figure?

 

[The Rabbi]

No, that's not right. The stimulus bill was about 500B in spending and 300B in tax cuts. Surely you don't consider tax cuts spending?

And on top of that, the spending in the stimulus was spread over three years. IIRC, the impact on year one budget was about 175B.

And on top of that, Bush handed out 350B to banks. Remember?

Wow, what a moron.
Do you think tax cuts are free?

No, I don't think tax cuts are free. That was Reagan's team.

Bush did not hand out 350b to banks. That is simply false. Another lie by the most ill-informed poster on this site.

Bush handed out 350B to banks and other financial institutions. Oh, and he approved backing several trillion worth of assets.

Are you still sticking by your claim that the 120,000 jobs created is not a net figure?

Repeating yourself isn't arguing. Bush did not hand out 350b to banks. You cannot prove he did.
You have yet to point to any figure on the link that resembles 350k.

 

[8537]

Wow, what a moron.
Do you think tax cuts are free?

No, I don't think tax cuts are free. That was Reagan's team.

Bush did not hand out 350b to banks. That is simply false. Another lie by the most ill-informed poster on this site.

Bush handed out 350B to banks and other financial institutions. Oh, and he approved backing several trillion worth of assets.

Are you still sticking by your claim that the 120,000 jobs created is not a net figure?

Repeating yourself isn't arguing. Bush did not hand out 350b to banks. You cannot prove he did.
You have yet to point to any figure on the link that resembles 350k.

Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times

are you standing by your claim that 120,000 jobs was not a net figure? I pointed you to the exact section of the report and gave you the exact figures. You dodged, ducked and weaved like a kid with his hand in the candy jar - because you were wrong, of course. again. as usual.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, I don't think tax cuts are free. That was Reagan's team.



Bush handed out 350B to banks and other financial institutions. Oh, and he approved backing several trillion worth of assets.

Are you still sticking by your claim that the 120,000 jobs created is not a net figure?

Repeating yourself isn't arguing. Bush did not hand out 350b to banks. You cannot prove he did.
You have yet to point to any figure on the link that resembles 350k.

Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times

are you standing by your claim that 120,000 jobs was not a net figure? I pointed you to the exact section of the report and gave you the exact figures. You dodged, ducked and weaved like a kid with his hand in the candy jar - because you were wrong, of course. again. as usual.

Are you capable of reading, or just too lazy?
from your link:

The government has provided money to hundreds of banks and a handful of insurers and automakers as part of the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. Some small firms have repaid the government, and many big banks have announced they intend to return the money.

George Bush was not the government. Congress voted for the program. Nor was the money "given out". The gov't took equity and secured interests in those companies.
And "handing out" money does not generally involve making a profit, as was the case:
As Biggest Banks Repay Bailout Money, the U.S. Sees a Profit - NYTimes.com

You can't read your own links, much less mine. You failed, despite repeated requests, to point to a single place that supported any figure like 350k.

 

[8537]

Repeating yourself isn't arguing. Bush did not hand out 350b to banks. You cannot prove he did.
You have yet to point to any figure on the link that resembles 350k.

Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times

are you standing by your claim that 120,000 jobs was not a net figure? I pointed you to the exact section of the report and gave you the exact figures. You dodged, ducked and weaved like a kid with his hand in the candy jar - because you were wrong, of course. again. as usual.

Are you capable of reading, or just too lazy?
from your link:

The government has provided money to hundreds of banks and a handful of insurers and automakers as part of the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. Some small firms have repaid the government, and many big banks have announced they intend to return the money.

George Bush was not the government.

Oh boy, you're falling even further off the sanity train. George Bush was President. He and his Treasury Secretary requested the money and were given the authority to spend it - let's review: At the President's request, Congress authorized the President's Treasury Secretary to spend the money. The Treasury secretary got busy spending the money.

You can't read your own links, much less mine. You failed, despite repeated requests, to point to a single place that supported any figure like 350k.

I can't be held accountable for your stupidity. Not only did I link to the numbers, but I did the math for you. are you still claiming the 120,000 was not a net figure? you keep avoiding that question. I can't blame ya.

These two responses by you encapsulate the stupidity and denial you bring to this board every post. If you could just toss in some racist screed about blacks we could have a trifecta of Rabbi ignorance.

 

[likeabird03]

It WAS detrimental the nations' fiscal position. No one denies that but the loony-tunes. Just like extending the payroll tax cut will be detrimental to our fiscal position - which is why both sides are working to find a way to make up for the lost revenue, either through cuts in spending or increases in revenues.

I'm not giving you a pass on this one. You explicitly claimed that the stimulus wasn't as expensive as I stated due to the fact that 300 some odd billion dollars worth were taxcuts. This is not an excuse, especially when you continue to spew rhetoric about how how Bush's or Reagans taxcuts got us into this situation. The budget deficit was only 1.5% of GDP in in 2007 with those taxcuts already baked in, so it's difficult to claim that they were somehow responsible for debt increasing at a record rate under Obama.

No, I'm not excluding anything. There is certainly not a one-for-one tradeoff. Actual research (not bloated talking heads) shows that some tax cuts can see a return of up to 30 or 40 cents increased revenues for each dollar cut, so the cut actually 'costs" the government 60 or 70 cents. Each tax is different, obviously, but it's not a static calculation.

I am somewhat in agreement with this, at least you know where I'm going. I'd be cautious about quoting a specific figure though. The thing about economics is that history never states it's alternatives, so there really was no way of knowing how much tax revenues would have been during the Bush years if it weren't for the taxcuts potentially increasing output.

 

[likeabird03]

Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times

are you standing by your claim that 120,000 jobs was not a net figure? I pointed you to the exact section of the report and gave you the exact figures. You dodged, ducked and weaved like a kid with his hand in the candy jar - because you were wrong, of course. again. as usual.

Most of the banks listed in the article on that link have paid the stimulus money back. So no - it was not handed to the banks. Good luck on trying to recover money from the likes of Solyndra though...

 

[The Rabbi]

Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times

are you standing by your claim that 120,000 jobs was not a net figure? I pointed you to the exact section of the report and gave you the exact figures. You dodged, ducked and weaved like a kid with his hand in the candy jar - because you were wrong, of course. again. as usual.

Most of the banks listed in the article on that link have paid the stimulus money back. So no - it was not handed to the banks. Good luck on trying to recover money from the likes of Solyndra though...

Or Fannie/Freddie, who have gobbled up billions on taxpayer money, with more on the way.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I'll tell you why that is-

The stock market has increased about 80% - and you know who that mostly benefits.

People close to retirement.

They've been priting money. A large amount of personal debts have been charged off. The Value of that dollar has fallen about 20% since then.

Where did you come up with that 20% figure?

Dollar index, as measured compared to a basket of international currencies. All that money printing has an effect believe it or not.

??? How do you get 20% decrease from 1-1-9 to 4-1-11 from the dollar index? It closed at 81.308 on 12-31-9 and and opened at 75.995 on 4-1-11. That's not a 20% decrease. Its not even a 7% decrease. Facts - do they matter?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

They were also there during much of the bush administration too, when the deficit was a fraction of what it is now.

Well duh, the economy wasn't doing as poorly.

Yes, and it did impact revenue somewhat. But that was also before annual spending increased 38% under Obama.

Spending went up 950% from 1940 to 1945, for an annualized rate of 60%.

How bad was the economy after 1945?

 

[Chris]

Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times

are you standing by your claim that 120,000 jobs was not a net figure? I pointed you to the exact section of the report and gave you the exact figures. You dodged, ducked and weaved like a kid with his hand in the candy jar - because you were wrong, of course. again. as usual.

Most of the banks listed in the article on that link have paid the stimulus money back. So no - it was not handed to the banks. Good luck on trying to recover money from the likes of Solyndra though...

Or Fannie/Freddie, who have gobbled up billions on taxpayer money, with more on the way.

As opposed to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan which cost $2 TRILLION DOLLARS.

 

[Chris]

Here are the figures from the Federal Reserve....

Year______Total Net Worth

2009-01-01 $49523.62 <--- Obama Takes Office
2009-04-01 50625.60
2009-07-01 53360.65
2009-10-01 54239.35
2010-01-01 55465.57
2010-04-01 54203.25
2010-07-01 55360.19
2010-10-01 57788.52
2011-01-01 58873.09
2011-04-01 $58730.14 <---- Most Recent Data

Difference = $9.2 Trillion.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/TNWBSHNO.txt

 

[The Rabbi]

Most of the banks listed in the article on that link have paid the stimulus money back. So no - it was not handed to the banks. Good luck on trying to recover money from the likes of Solyndra though...

Or Fannie/Freddie, who have gobbled up billions on taxpayer money, with more on the way.

As opposed to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan which cost $2 TRILLION DOLLARS.

Every penny worth it. Or would you prefer terrorists remain unmolested in their safe areas?
George W Bush: No terrorist attacks for 7 years. That wasn't an accident, btw.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Or Fannie/Freddie, who have gobbled up billions on taxpayer money, with more on the way.

As opposed to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan which cost $2 TRILLION DOLLARS.

Every penny worth it. Or would you prefer terrorists remain unmolested in their safe areas?

FALSE CHOICE FALLACY

George W Bush: No terrorist attacks for 7 years. That wasn't an accident, btw.

Captain Joe Hazelwood hasn't crashed a ship in over 20 years - he must be a good ship captain.


I do have to ask, since you think GWB is such a great defender of the U.S. from terrorists, why didn't he save 3000 Americans on 9/11?

 

[JDzBrain]

I do have to ask, since you think GWB is such a great defender of the U.S. from terrorists, why didn't he save 3000 Americans on 9/11?

Huh...so you were FOR preemptive military action before you are now AGAINST preemptive military action? Typical!

THAT question would be more appropriately asked of Bubba Clinton who had 3 chances in the 8 years after the first World Trade Center bombing to take possession of Osama bin Laden and decapitate al-Qaida in the '90s and didn't!

Here are the figures from the Federal Reserve....

Year______Total Net Worth

2009-01-01 $49523.62 <--- Obama Takes Office
2009-04-01 50625.60
2009-07-01 53360.65
2009-10-01 54239.35
2010-01-01 55465.57
2010-04-01 54203.25
2010-07-01 55360.19
2010-10-01 57788.52
2011-01-01 58873.09
2011-04-01 $58730.14 <---- Most Recent Data

Difference = $9.2 Trillion.

Chris...you've posted this a couple of times and I'd like you to explain to the class just exactly HOW the TOTAL GDP of the US can go from 14.25 trillion in 2009 to 14.7 trillion in 2011 and that equal a 9.2 trillion dollar gain for Americans.

Here is the thing. Even if we accept the world of fuzzy government math that takes the average Median Family income and applies it to the GDP, a 15% increase in even a 15 trillion dollar TOTAL economy can NOT equal 9.2 trillion dollars in 2 years. In the world of real math, even allowing rounding don't get ya THERE! Even using your figures and doing fuzzy government math by mixing apples and oranges, that's only 2.25 trillion dollar increase!

Here is the world of REAL math. Income...according to our beloved Census folk's figures, the average median household income rose about 2.4% since Obama took office, while during that SAME period, the average price of a gallon of gas up 48%, average food prices up 9.7%, consumer goods...UP nearly 3%, price for all consumer goods up 6.6%, average price for consumer services...UP nearly 3%, nearly 25% increase in health care premiums, 20% increase in Medicare copay on average and on and on and on.

Yep...that hopey changey thing is working out just GREAT for average Americans pocketbook. 9.2 trillion my butt!

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I do have to ask, since you think GWB is such a great defender of the U.S. from terrorists, why didn't he save 3000 Americans on 9/11?

Huh...so you were FOR preemptive military action before you are now AGAINST preemptive military action? Typical!

Wow. You sound like a bot.

THAT question would be more appropriately asked of Bubba Clinton who had 3 chances in the 8 years after the first World Trade Center bombing to take possession of Osama bin Laden and decapitate al-Qaida in the '90s and didn't!

Sure, its all Bill Clinton's fault. When the WTC was attacked by terrorists the first time, a month after Bill took office - that was his fault. And when it was attacked the 2nd time, almost 9 months after he leaves office, that, too is his fault. If something bad happens, its the fault of the most recent Democratic President and or Congress, whether they be current or previous. Even the housing bubble - which burst over 5 years after Bill Clinton took office - that, too, is his fault. But also the fault of the Democratic Congress elected in 2006. But not the fault of the Republican President who was in power for 5 years or the Congress which was more or less Republican controlled from 2001-2006. WE GOT IT

 

[Chris]

I do have to ask, since you think GWB is such a great defender of the U.S. from terrorists, why didn't he save 3000 Americans on 9/11?

Huh...so you were FOR preemptive military action before you are now AGAINST preemptive military action? Typical!

THAT question would be more appropriately asked of Bubba Clinton who had 3 chances in the 8 years after the first World Trade Center bombing to take possession of Osama bin Laden and decapitate al-Qaida in the '90s and didn't!

Here are the figures from the Federal Reserve....

Year______Total Net Worth

2009-01-01 $49523.62 <--- Obama Takes Office
2009-04-01 50625.60
2009-07-01 53360.65
2009-10-01 54239.35
2010-01-01 55465.57
2010-04-01 54203.25
2010-07-01 55360.19
2010-10-01 57788.52
2011-01-01 58873.09
2011-04-01 $58730.14 <---- Most Recent Data

Difference = $9.2 Trillion.

Chris...you've posted this a couple of times and I'd like you to explain to the class just exactly HOW the TOTAL GDP of the US can go from 14.25 trillion in 2009 to 14.7 trillion in 2011 and that equal a 9.2 trillion dollar gain for Americans.

Here is the thing. Even if we accept the world of fuzzy government math that takes the average Median Family income and applies it to the GDP, a 15% increase in even a 15 trillion dollar TOTAL economy can NOT equal 9.2 trillion dollars in 2 years. In the world of real math, even allowing rounding don't get ya THERE! Even using your figures and doing fuzzy government math by mixing apples and oranges, that's only 2.25 trillion dollar increase!

Here is the world of REAL math. Income...according to our beloved Census folk's figures, the average median household income rose about 2.4% since Obama took office, while during that SAME period, the average price of a gallon of gas up 48%, average food prices up 9.7%, consumer goods...UP nearly 3%, price for all consumer goods up 6.6%, average price for consumer services...UP nearly 3%, nearly 25% increase in health care premiums, 20% increase in Medicare copay on average and on and on and on.

Yep...that hopey changey thing is working out just GREAT for average Americans pocketbook. 9.2 trillion my butt!

Income and net worth are two different things.

You never took accounting, did you?

 

[Listening]

Income and net worth are two different things.

You never took accounting, did you?

Ah, but they are related. And he shows how.

Didn't get to high school, did you ?

People provide you with well thought out posts and you ink off in another direction hoping to escape the fact that you've been made a fool.

You are not succeeding.

 

[Sundial]

I do have to ask, since you think GWB is such a great defender of the U.S. from terrorists, why didn't he save 3000 Americans on 9/11?

Huh...so you were FOR preemptive military action before you are now AGAINST preemptive military action? Typical!

THAT question would be more appropriately asked of Bubba Clinton who had 3 chances in the 8 years after the first World Trade Center bombing to take possession of Osama bin Laden and decapitate al-Qaida in the '90s and didn't!

Here are the figures from the Federal Reserve....

Year______Total Net Worth

2009-01-01 $49523.62 <--- Obama Takes Office
2009-04-01 50625.60
2009-07-01 53360.65
2009-10-01 54239.35
2010-01-01 55465.57
2010-04-01 54203.25
2010-07-01 55360.19
2010-10-01 57788.52
2011-01-01 58873.09
2011-04-01 $58730.14 <---- Most Recent Data

Difference = $9.2 Trillion.

Chris...you've posted this a couple of times and I'd like you to explain to the class just exactly HOW the TOTAL GDP of the US can go from 14.25 trillion in 2009 to 14.7 trillion in 2011 and that equal a 9.2 trillion dollar gain for Americans.

Here is the thing. Even if we accept the world of fuzzy government math that takes the average Median Family income and applies it to the GDP, a 15% increase in even a 15 trillion dollar TOTAL economy can NOT equal 9.2 trillion dollars in 2 years. In the world of real math, even allowing rounding don't get ya THERE! Even using your figures and doing fuzzy government math by mixing apples and oranges, that's only 2.25 trillion dollar increase!

Here is the world of REAL math. Income...according to our beloved Census folk's figures, the average median household income rose about 2.4% since Obama took office, while during that SAME period, the average price of a gallon of gas up 48%, average food prices up 9.7%, consumer goods...UP nearly 3%, price for all consumer goods up 6.6%, average price for consumer services...UP nearly 3%, nearly 25% increase in health care premiums, 20% increase in Medicare copay on average and on and on and on.

Yep...that hopey changey thing is working out just GREAT for average Americans pocketbook. 9.2 trillion my butt!

Those numbers represent changes in American household net wealth, not income. Wealth can change because of stock markets, the housing market, debt, and corporate and government bonds.