Fate Worse Than Death

[KittenKoder]

I know you're smoking dope.

Aah ... the descent into self hatred occurred here instead of the other thread. Why not try to go back on topic again, but then since you can't post anything to oppose my side all you want to do is toss around failed attempts at insults.

 

[AllieBaba]

What the hell is your side? All you've done is post nonsense. Pick something and stick with it.

 

[KittenKoder]

What the hell is your side? All you've done is post nonsense. Pick something and stick with it.

The beauty of being human is that we don't have to live in a black and white world, we can see colors for a reason. My only side is equality, pure and simple, and telling people what they can or cannot do based on foolish and wrong religious ideals is pure ignorance and hatred, nothing more. Then to use science as a way to justify it is just vile and low, even worse when the science is twisted and mocked at the same time.

No, science hasn't gotten far enough into the topic as to make a clear choice because of the research being stunted by the few religious loud mouths who want stop all advances.

 

[AllieBaba]

What research is being stunted? Oh, you mean because we don't want babies harvested?

 

[KittenKoder]

What research is being stunted? Oh, you mean because we don't want babies harvested?

Tell you what, when you want to actually debate with real information instead of just wanting to argue go read up on the studies of life a bit, science not religious myth, and ignore the science provided by religiously aligned people and read from all the actual scientists. Then come back to this debate so you will at least understand the positions better. At least most of the people on both sides have done more research than even you have.

 

[Zoom-boing]

And YOU have an arrogance that comes from deluding yourself into thinking you have the RIGHT and DUTY to tell other people what to do with their lives and bodies, Zoom.

I guess it comes down to my Protestant upbringing, Zoom.

When it comes to matters of conscience and procreation, it's a matter strictly between the individual and GOD.

Neither you nor I has any right to tell other people what to do with their own bodies especially when it comes to procreation.

I find it ironic that the stance you pro-abortionists take is the 'no one has the right to tell me what to do with my body', yet that is exactly what a woman is doing to the baby in utero when she has an abortion. She is deciding what will happen to another human's body.

Let me tell you something I doubt you'll believe.

Giving the government the right to tell women they MUST procreate puts us ALL on that slope where the govermenht will decide WHO CAN procreate.

Not dictating who can and cannot procreate. Just trying to save an innocent human life, ed. They babies cannot speak for themselves . . . they don't get a say in whether they live or die . . . someone has to speak for them.

Another person's womb is NONE of your fucking business

Again, it's what is inside of that womb that concerns me.

 

[Zoom-boing]

the jim jones comment came because in their group you couldn't disagree or question or think differently. if you did you were wrong and punished.

You can't accept that, while you're entitled to your opinion, so is everyone else. You think you're more entitled because you're on your holy moral ground but the fact of the matter is it's not up you to to judge or say what is right or wrong in regards to a woman's personal choices, as long as they don't infringe on YOU.

You're very much a group think kind of person because all you've been doing is spewing the right-to-life handbook throughout the entire thread. You haven't given one reason outside the abortion is murder and all children are blessings bullshit rhetroic.

Murder is reason enough.

 

[Care4all]

zoom,

Then let's talk about ways to reduce abortion if it is the unborn that we are concerned with...

higher employment... reduces abortion
better understanding of birth control options reduces abortion
more committment from the fathers to be, reduces abortion
a sense of self worth reduces abortions
parental support can reduce abortions
self control or abstaining from sex reduces abortions
in general, marriage reduces abortions

there are so many things that can be focussed on that would reduce abortions taking place...including informing the girls contemplating abortion with ALL of the facts, as you or someone else?, mentioned earlier in this thread, that can be done within the law as it stands.

care

 

[Zoom-boing]

She got "counseling" along the lines of what you're throwing out there.

And I'm suspose to conclude what from this? Again you provide minimal information yet ask for a response from me.

I don't know why you think it's important to try to make people feel bad about their decision if it isn't what you prefer they do.

Abortion is the killing of human life. I want people to realize this and understand this before making any decision. It isn't about me, it isn't about you, it's about another's life.

I don't think very much, if any, good can come from your basically negative approach

Negative approach? Trying to get someone to understand that abortion is the taking of human life is my negative approach? So they should not be told or shown what abortion actually is before making that decision? My approach isn't negative Amanda, it is the truth.

You want less abortions? Start talking about how you're going to make fathers man up and take responsibility.

I've provided how I believe abortions could be reduced. Why don't you put in your own two cents on how to make the fathers man up and take responsibility.

Your "boy wants the child and she aborts anyway" scenario is basically a fantasy. If it ever happens it must be quite rare because I've never heard of it happening.

Really? Tell it to EOTS.

but I hear the "boy ran away" story ALL the time. So yeah, I noticed you didn't really address how you would suggest boys be made to be responsible. I'm not surprised, because this issue isn't about controlling boys, only girls. FAIL.

The issue is about unborn human life. Fail? Yes, you do because you refuse to admit this.

 

[Zoom-boing]

zoom,

Then let's talk about ways to reduce abortion if it is the unborn that we are concerned with...

higher employment... reduces abortion
better understanding of birth control options reduces abortion
more committment from the fathers to be, reduces abortion
a sense of self worth reduces abortions
parental support can reduce abortions
self control or abstaining from sex reduces abortions
in general, marriage reduces abortions

there are so many things that can be focussed on that would reduce abortions taking place...including informing the girls contemplating abortion with ALL of the facts, as you or someone else?, mentioned earlier in this thread, that can be done within the law as it stands.

care

Oh absolutely Care. However much I or anyone else does not believe in abortion, it will never go away . . . but information is crucial in trying to reduce the number of abortions that take place. I think both sides want this. I strongly believe in sex education and at fairly early age -- 5th or 6th grade -- and I believe that providing all information is crucial. Responsibility, birth control, abstinence, consequences of sex, diseases, pregnancy options - which includes full graphic information on abortion. If any of these things prevents an unplanned pregnancy, and another abortion, then it is a success. Again abortion will never go away but I believe full knowledge of what actually happens should be taught so the girl and boy knows exactly what their decision entails.

 

[AllieBaba]

zoom,

Then let's talk about ways to reduce abortion if it is the unborn that we are concerned with...

higher employment... reduces abortion
better understanding of birth control options reduces abortion
more committment from the fathers to be, reduces abortion
a sense of self worth reduces abortions
parental support can reduce abortions
self control or abstaining from sex reduces abortions
in general, marriage reduces abortions

there are so many things that can be focussed on that would reduce abortions taking place...including informing the girls contemplating abortion with ALL of the facts, as you or someone else?, mentioned earlier in this thread, that can be done within the law as it stands.

care

Actually, a better understanding of birth control has never been proven to reduce abortions. Hence the huge increase in abortions after birth control and "safe sex" became an option for women.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Actually, a better understanding of birth control has never been proven to reduce abortions. Hence the huge increase in abortions after birth control and "safe sex" became an option for women.

Do you have a link for this info? Thanks.

 

[KittenKoder]

zoom,

Then let's talk about ways to reduce abortion if it is the unborn that we are concerned with...

higher employment... reduces abortion
better understanding of birth control options reduces abortion
more committment from the fathers to be, reduces abortion
a sense of self worth reduces abortions
parental support can reduce abortions
self control or abstaining from sex reduces abortions
in general, marriage reduces abortions

there are so many things that can be focussed on that would reduce abortions taking place...including informing the girls contemplating abortion with ALL of the facts, as you or someone else?, mentioned earlier in this thread, that can be done within the law as it stands.

care

 

[Silence]

Actually, a better understanding of birth control has never been proven to reduce abortions. Hence the huge increase in abortions after birth control and "safe sex" became an option for women.

you're gonna need to back that statement up with some statistic Allie cuz I call bullshit on that.

 

[KittenKoder]

you're gonna need to back that statement up with some statistic Allie cuz I call bullshit on that.

Considering schools that no longer teach sex ed are now showing higher numbers of teen pregnancy (many ending in abortions now) and STDs, Allies statement is contrary to evidence.

 

[Silence]

Considering schools that no longer teach sex ed are now showing higher numbers of teen pregnancy (many ending in abortions now) and STDs, Allies statement is contrary to evidence.

I know that and you know that but she clearly thinks she can say whatever she wants regardless of the evidence.

Sex education lowers teen pregnancy and STDs it's been proven.

 

[auditor0007]

This debate will never be settled. If you believe that life begins at conception, then you must believe abortion is murder. If you believe life only begins at birth or in the second trimester, then you can support abortion and believe it is not murder.

Both sides have very valid arguments, therefore no solution. If everyone was serious about reducing the number of abortions, everyone would concentrate on education and prevenention of unwanted pregnancies.

While I am personally against abortion, this is where I have a real problem with the pro-life lobby, as they hamper the two things that would most reduce abortions by not supporting better education and by not making contraceptives more readily available.

 

[KittenKoder]

This debate will never be settled. If you believe that life begins at conception, then you must believe abortion is murder. If you believe life only begins at birth or in the second trimester, then you can support abortion and believe it is not murder.

Both sides have very valid arguments, therefore no solution. If everyone was serious about reducing the number of abortions, everyone would concentrate on education and prevenention of unwanted pregnancies.

While I am personally against abortion, this is where I have a real problem with the pro-life lobby, as they hamper the two things that would most reduce abortions by not supporting better education and by not making contraceptives more readily available.

As I have said, science is still too stunted by religious ideologies to come to a solid conclusion. I do not support nor am I against it, there just isn't enough evidence either way.