Fascism and the left wing

[Amazed]

Of all the weird claims made on this board, the one that has stunned me the most is posters claiming that Fascism is right wing.

So far I've seen two posters suggest this, which is to my mind one very odd belief.

So this thread is about the theories which define Fascism, and how we know that it is right wing.

Key differences between Fascism and Communism:

1) Class. Fascism is based on support from the middle and upper classes. Whereas communism relies on support by workers and the idea of smashing classes, Fascism intends to strengthen the class system. Hitler promised the middle and upper classes enormous wealth, and sought to deliver by channeling government contracts into private firms, thus delivering massive windfalls to share holders. Although workers suported Hitler, he did not rely on their support as much of those of the elite. Hitler also chose people like philosopher Martin Heidigger and architect Albert Speer to appeal to elite groups in society.

2) Capital. Communism seeks to do away with money, Fascism seeks to channel it. Hitler and Franco both sought to make their supporters rich through their private businesses, destroying competition and removing laws which impeded their growth.

3) Ethnicity. Whereas Lenin promoted Jews and even Stalin maintained the 'One Nation, Many Peoples' concept, Fascists like Antonescu and Hitler sought to destroy minority races and maintain racial putiry. Within the Soviet inner circle there were Armenians, Jews, Azeris and Georgians, in no Fascist country could this ever take place.

You’ll need to edit the bolded to match the rest of your post and graph.

Yes, Fascism in on the right side of the political spectrum; to suggest fascism is ‘left wing’ is ignorant idiocy.

The ignorance is yours.

Both Mussolini and Hitler were Socialist....

Fascism ( /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek elevation of their nation based on commitment to an organic national community where its individuals are united together as one people through national identity.

The major triumph of this Century has been the Left's ability to recast its failures as a Rightwing ideology.

Here is the way it works.....

Socilaism---->Communism---->Facism, why?

Because an educated people being subjected to the ill of the State never works and ALWAYS ends up being enforced at the point of a gun.

But the ill educated....thise being the people that have bought into this sham will kick and scream and throw fits to try and convince everyone else that their tactics are indeed those used by the other side.

 

[thanatos144]

The problem with this argument is the progressives think comunism is not just another form of facism just like socialism is.... That's why it is a left wing ideology .. this is what happened when we allowed the left to take over education.

 

[bripat9643]

Sniper Fire -

How do you explain the fact that basically all dictionaries and encyclopedias, not to mention academic texts, say exactly the opposite, and have done for the past 60 years?

Do you not think it is remotely possible that you are simply wrong?

As I told you, people who write dictionaries are liberals. They majored in English, after all. Furthermore, they simply copy what they've read in other dictionaries. We aren't talking about people with a lot of smarts here. The professors in liberal arts schools are all a bunch of leftists. Anyone who has been to college knows that.

 

[SniperFire]

Of all the weird claims made on this board, the one that has stunned me the most is posters claiming that Fascism is right wing.

So far I've seen two posters suggest this, which is to my mind one very odd belief.

So this thread is about the theories which define Fascism, and how we know that it is right wing.

Key differences between Fascism and Communism:

1) Class. Fascism is based on support from the middle and upper classes. Whereas communism relies on support by workers and the idea of smashing classes, Fascism intends to strengthen the class system. Hitler promised the middle and upper classes enormous wealth, and sought to deliver by channeling government contracts into private firms, thus delivering massive windfalls to share holders. Although workers suported Hitler, he did not rely on their support as much of those of the elite. Hitler also chose people like philosopher Martin Heidigger and architect Albert Speer to appeal to elite groups in society.

2) Capital. Communism seeks to do away with money, Fascism seeks to channel it. Hitler and Franco both sought to make their supporters rich through their private businesses, destroying competition and removing laws which impeded their growth.

3) Ethnicity. Whereas Lenin promoted Jews and even Stalin maintained the 'One Nation, Many Peoples' concept, Fascists like Antonescu and Hitler sought to destroy minority races and maintain racial putiry. Within the Soviet inner circle there were Armenians, Jews, Azeris and Georgians, in no Fascist country could this ever take place.

You’ll need to edit the bolded to match the rest of your post and graph.

Yes, Fascism in on the right side of the political spectrum; to suggest fascism is ‘left wing’ is ignorant idiocy.

The ignorance is yours.

Both Mussolini and Hitler were Socialist....

Fascism ( /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek elevation of their nation based on commitment to an organic national community where its individuals are united together as one people through national identity.

The major triumph of this Century has been the Left's ability to recast its failures as a Rightwing ideology.

Here is the way it works.....

Socilaism---->Communism---->Facism, why?

Because an educated people being subjected to the ill of the State never works and ALWAYS ends up being enforced at the point of a gun.

But the ill educated....thise being the people that have bought into this sham will kick and scream and throw fits to try and convince everyone else that their tactics are indeed those used by the other side.

The 'centre' of the infographic measures the crossover between the Communist brand of authoritarian central planning and the Facist brand of authoritarian central planning.

Their nearly identical advertising campaigns prove they were fighting for the hearts and minds of those in the 'centre.'

Coke v. Pepsi.

 

[Saigon]

Amazed -

What evidence can you suggest that the word has been "re-cast" given all German sources at the time of WWII also described at as right wing.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Saigon: I declare myself the winner, if you can't see that you must be stupid.

 

[bripat9643]

Sniper Fire -

How do you explain the fact that basically all dictionaries and encyclopedias, not to mention academic texts, say exactly the opposite, and have done for the past 60 years?

Do you not think it is remotely possible that you are simply wrong?

Were Nazis authoritarian central planners, or not?

Are Communists authoritarian central planners, or not?

The facts don't matter to these idiots. They'll start talking about German culture and the church and host of other irrelevancies. Using their logic, you could argue that Nazis were leftists because Hitler was a vegetarian. That is literally how stupid their arguments are.

 

[Saigon]

We aren't talking about people with a lot of smarts here.

The people who agree with you on this are BigReb, Sniper, Sunni Man, Crusader Frank and Amazed.

I'm not going to say a word.

btw - Please respond to the Hitler quotes I posted in #130- I believe they effectively answer your questions and hopefully bring you up to speed.

 

[Amazed]

Having said that the tactics used in Facist State can be used by either side...but it originated in Leftwing Govs.

 

[Saigon]

Saigon: I declare myself the winner, if you can't see that you must be stupid.

I declare dictionaries, encyclopedias and the past 60 years of political philosophy the winner.

If I was on the side opposing dictionaries, I'd be questioning my thinking.

 

[bripat9643]

Fascism is left wing in the relationship of the people (subjects) to the government, little else matters besides that. It is as left wing as its cousins Communism and Socialism and usually comes with a Charismatic dictator as well

OK, we are now up to five people who either haven't read or didn't understand the OP.

Just to be clear here - this is NOT subjective, and is not a matter of opinion. It is purely and simply a question of being right or wrong. Which is why all dictionaries and encyclopedias and history books confirm that fascism is right wing, of course.

Always good to see posters lining up to be wrong!

That's an appeal to authority - a logical fallacy. Try again. Use facts to support your claims, not some bogus authority.

 

[SniperFire]

Saigon: I declare myself the winner, if you can't see that you must be stupid.

I declare dictionaries, encyclopedias and the past 60 years of political philosophy the winner.

If I was on the side opposing dictionaries, I'd be questioning my thinking.

Simple question.

Were the Nazi authoritarian central planners?

 

[Amazed]

Amazed -

What evidence can you suggest that the word has been "re-cast" given all German sources at the time of WWII also described at as right wing.

National Socialist Party.

You are in the wrong sand box.

 

[bripat9643]

Sniper -

Because I think there is virtually no chance at all that you would understand the replies...and even less chance that you would respond honestly if you did.

I have explained in considerable detail exactly why Fascism is considered right wing. If you read the OP and respond to the points raise, I will respond to that.

Mindless whining I'm less interested in.

In other words, sniper makes a point that you can't refute. All you can do is cite your bogus authorities. That's what leftists invariably do in theses debates.

 

[Saigon]

The problem with this argument is the progressives think comunism is not just another form of facism just like socialism is.... That's why it is a left wing ideology .. this is what happened when we allowed the left to take over education.

I'm just sorry you missed out on that education.

Communism is in no way whatsoever a form of fascism, and neither is socialism.

Please read the OP, or do an internet search on the terms - it really is that easy.

 

[bripat9643]

Sheldon Richman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia? You're kidding, right?

 

[SniperFire]

The problem with this argument is the progressives think comunism is not just another form of facism just like socialism is.... That's why it is a left wing ideology .. this is what happened when we allowed the left to take over education.

I'm just sorry you missed out on that education.

Communism is in no way whatsoever a form of fascism, and neither is socialism.

Please read the OP, or do an internet search on the terms - it really is that easy.

In lieu of defending his argument, Saigon says 'NUH UHNH!!!' even more emphatically.


LOL

 

[bripat9643]

Academic definiton of Fascism:

Fascism: A Glossary of Political Economy Terms - Dr. Paul M. Johnson

Another appeal to authority.

 

[Saigon]

. Use facts to support your claims, not some bogus authority.

If you oppose socialism, you're on the right.

Well, here it is from Hitler himself - is he a good authority?


"The streets of our country are in turmoil. The universities are filled with students rebelling and rioting. Communists are seeking to destroy our country. Russia is threatening us with her might, and the Republic is in danger. Yes - danger from within and without. We need law and order! Without it our nation cannot survive."

In view of the complete subordination of the present State to Marxism, the National Socialist Movement feels all the more bound not only to prepare the way for the triumph of its idea by appealing to the reason and understanding of the public but also to take upon itself the responsibility of organizing its own defence against the terror of the International, which is intoxicated with its own victory.

In this way the struggle against the present State was placed on a higher plane than that of petty revenge and small conspiracies. It was elevated to the level of a spiritual struggle on behalf of a WELTANSCHAUUNG, for the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms.

In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be exterminated.

 

[bripat9643]

Facism
Nationalism
Liberalism Progressivism Democrat Independant Republican Conservative Confederacy Anarchy
Socialism
Communist

The far left is the European political spectrum and the line in the middle is the US political spectrum.

Nationalism doesn't even belong on your list, but it's total bullshit anyway.