Fascism and the left wing

[Sallow]

If you oppose socialism, you're on the right.

Now you are getting it, Bripat - excellent!

"The streets of our country are in turmoil. The universities are filled with students rebelling and rioting. Communists are seeking to destroy our country. Russia is threatening us with her might, and the Republic is in danger. Yes - danger from within and without. We need law and order! Without it our nation cannot survive."

In view of the complete subordination of the present State to Marxism, the National Socialist Movement feels all the more bound not only to prepare the way for the triumph of its idea by appealing to the reason and understanding of the public but also to take upon itself the responsibility of organizing its own defence against the terror of the International, which is intoxicated with its own victory.

In this way the struggle against the present State was placed on a higher plane than that of petty revenge and small conspiracies. It was elevated to the level of a spiritual struggle on behalf of a WELTANSCHAUUNG, for the destruction of Marxism in all its shapes and forms.

In the years 1913 and 1914 I expressed my opinion for the first time in various circles, some of which are now members of the National Socialist Movement, that the problem of how the future of the German nation can be secured is the problem of how Marxism can be exterminated.

Adolf Hitler's political views - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.

- Adolf Hitler -​

Game, set and match.

Not so fast.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

 

[bripat9643]

Amazed -

What evidence can you suggest that the word has been "re-cast" given all German sources at the time of WWII also described at as right wing.

Really? Quote one saying that.

 

[Saigon]

Bripat -

I disagree - I think an awful lot has been proven on this thread.

I really hadn't expected the thread would get a lot of replies, given the basis for it is such everyday common knowledge, but it's been quite an eye opener.

I would have posted Hitler's quotes in the beginning had I realised so many posters weren't up to speed on this, but next time I won't overestimate the forums' education!

A truly amazing thread.

 

[bripat9643]

Saigon: I declare myself the winner, if you can't see that you must be stupid.

I declare dictionaries, encyclopedias and the past 60 years of political philosophy the winner.

If I was on the side opposing dictionaries, I'd be questioning my thinking.

Declaring themselves the winner is the only way leftists ever win a debate.

 

[percysunshine]

Chris Mathews is always a reliable source.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Nazi....National Socialist.

Of course, socialists of today want to deny this FACT to cover their asses.

 

[bripat9643]

Bripat -

I disagree - I think an awful lot has been proven on this thread.

I really hadn't expected the thread would get a lot of replies, given the basis for it is such everyday common knowledge, but it's been quite an eye opener.

I would have posted Hitler's quotes in the beginning had I realised so many posters weren't up to speed on this, but next time I won't overestimate the forums' education!

A truly amazing thread.

You're ignoring the Hilter quote I posted. He says himself that he's a socialist. Respond to that.

 

[bripat9643]

Not so fast.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Where does he claim he's not a socialist?

 

[Saigon]

Amazed -

What evidence can you suggest that the word has been "re-cast" given all German sources at the time of WWII also described at as right wing.

Really? Quote one saying that.

Well I quoted Hitler several times already, but it's worth checking the following sources:

Andreas Hillgrubber
Klaus Hildebrand
Hans-Ulrich Wehler
Tim Mason
Dietrich Eichholtz and Kurt Gossweiler

Ian Kershaw's 'Nazi Dictatorship' includes material translated from their original work, some of which goes back to the early 1930s.

Obviously there was a lot of discussion about how right wing Hitler was during this period - it's easily available.

 

[bripat9643]

Amazed -

What evidence can you suggest that the word has been "re-cast" given all German sources at the time of WWII also described at as right wing.

Really? Quote one saying that.

Well I quoted Hitler several times already, but it's worth checking the following sources:

Andreas Hillgrubber
Klaus Hildebrand
Hans-Ulrich Wehler
Tim Mason
Dietrich Eichholtz and Kurt Gossweiler

Ian Kershaw's 'Nazi Dictatorship' includes material translated from their original work, some of which goes back to the early 1930s.

Obviously there was a lot of discussion about how right wing Hitler was during this period - it's easily available.

Quote one saying what you claimed. I'm not going to read all those authors.

 

[percysunshine]

Goebbels always had one of those 'tingley' feelings.

 

[Saigon]

Where does he claim he's not a socialist?

Maybe in the quotes where he attacked Marxism?

Please try and understand that "National Socialism" as a name is not intended to mean "Socialism" as we understand the word today.

The Nazi name was coined back in the 1920s before use of the word 'socialism' had been used much outside Soviet circles, so ended up being purloined by the Nazis.

As mentioned earlier - there are a dozen other fascist countries which were openly and obviously right wing - it's not like it is only Hitler.

Is anyone going to question Franco being both right wing and fascist?

I don't think so.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Hitler liked Universal Healthcare.

Um, I don't recall which party here is pushing for Universal Healthcare......Bueller, Bueller.

Oh, that would be the black messiah....

 

[SniperFire]

I just made this down and dirty infographic.

These concepts all really don't want to fit into nice little boxes, but it shows what the other lying infographic posted leaves out, and what the 'centre' crossover on the other infographic represents:

 

[Saigon]

Quote one saying what you claimed. I'm not going to read all those authors.

Oh, I'm sure you aren't. But I have.

Rather than type out stuff from books without links, I prefer to quote the great fascist Franco:

"One thing that I am sure of, and which I can answer truthfully, is that whatever the contingencies that may arise here, wherever I am there will be no Communism."

"We strive to form a single national front against the Judeo-Masonic lodges, against Moscow and the Marxist societies"

"Let us be under no illusion. The Jewish spirit, which was responsible for the alliance of large-scale capital with Marxism and was the driving force behind so many anti-Spanish revolutionary agreements, will not be got rid of in a day."

"We have torn up Marxist materialism and we have disorientated Masonry. We have thwarted the Satanic machinations of the clandestine Masonic superstate. Despite its control of the world’s press and numerous international politicians. Spain’s struggle is a Crusade; as soldiers of God we carry with us the evangelism of the world"

Francisco Franco - Wikiquote

 

[GoneBezerk]

You're such an idiot.

Communism is the extreme outcome of left-wing policies, socialism is to the right of it. A socialist might not like communism for being too extreme.

Hitler hated Stalin andthe Russian people for many reasons. One of them was that the Slavs were an inferior race of people compared to the Germans.

Just because Hitler and Stalin eventually fought each other doesn't deny the FACTS they first worked together at the start and they are both left-wing.

Where does he claim he's not a socialist?

Maybe in the quotes where he attacked Marxism?

Please try and understand that "National Socialism" as a name is not intended to mean "Socialism" as we understand the word today.

The Nazi name was coined back in the 1920s before use of the word 'socialism' had been used much outside Soviet circles, so ended up being purloined by the Nazis.

As mentioned earlier - there are a dozen other fascist countries which were openly and obviously right wing - it's not like it is only Hitler.

Is anyone going to question Franco being both right wing and fascist?

I don't think so.

 

[Papageorgio]

Hitler liked Universal Healthcare.

Um, I don't recall which party here is pushing for Universal Healthcare......Bueller, Bueller.

Oh, that would be the black messiah....

Hitler liked eugenics.

Um, I don't recall which party here is pushing for Universal Healthcare......Bueller, Bueller.

Oh, that would be the black messiah....

 

[Saigon]

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.

Mussolini

 

[Saigon]

Gone Bersek -

Communism is the extreme outcome of left-wing policies, socialism is to the right of it

Then why does Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and every dictionary known to man say the opposite?

 

[bripat9643]

Where does he claim he's not a socialist?

Maybe in the quotes where he attacked Marxism?

Please try and understand that "National Socialism" as a name is not intended to mean "Socialism" as we understand the word today.

The Nazi name was coined back in the 1920s before use of the word 'socialism' had been used much outside Soviet circles, so ended up being purloined by the Nazis.

ROFL! Oh Puhleeze! Now you're arguing that socialism doesn't mean socialism. The idea that no one knew what socialism meant in the 1920s doesn't pass the laugh test. It's especially stupid in reference to Hitler. Should I start quoting the dictionary to prove my case? I think you'll find that dictionaries from the 1920s had virtually the same definition as now. Actually, perhaps those definitions were more honest because socialism hadn't yet acquired all the negative connotations it has now.

As mentioned earlier - there are a dozen other fascist countries which were openly and obviously right wing - it's not like it is only Hitler.

Is anyone going to question Franco being both right wing and fascist?

I don't think so.

Yes. Franco was a left winger. Franco pretty much implemented the exact same economic policies as FDR.