Fascism and the left wing

[editec]

Radical left wing fascism is quite apparent in history in places like USSR and China.

As is right wing fascism, as evident in Hitlarian Germany, Franco's Spain and Mussolini's Italy.

The above uses the word FASCISM to mean AUTHORITARIANISM, naturally.

A misuse of the word, fascism, in my opinion, but I'm using the word here like so many people commonly use the word...to mean a really oppressive government.

FWIW fascism MEANS corporate control over government.

That is SPECIFICALLY what the word actually means.

 

[Saigon]

Radical left wing fascism is quite apparent in history in places like USSR and China.

As is right wing fascism, as evident in Hitlarian Germany, Franco's Spain and Mussolini's Italy.

The above uses the word FASCISM to mean AUTHORITARIANISM, naturally.

A misuse of the word, fascism, in my opinion, but I'm using the word here like so many people commonly use the word...to mean a really oppressive government.

FWIW fascism MEANS corporate control over government.

That is SPECIFICALLY what the word actually means.

It is used that way here, but that really isn't what "fascism" means, and my point in starting this thread was also to encourage BigReb and BriPat to use the term correctly.

What Stalin and Hitler had in common was tyranny, despotism or authoritarianism, but ot fascism.

No one ever calls Hitler a Communist - likewise I don't think people should call Hitler a fascist.

 

[Fordsflylow]

Wiseacre -

As you can see from the graphic, the extreme left and extreme right are closer to each other than they are to the centre.

Bein in Nazi Germany no doubt felt more like being in Communist Russia than it did like the US or EU today.

But this does not mean they are the same - there are very key differences, as explained in the OP.

Conservatism champions small government, but the further to the right you go, the larger the government will be. All very powerful right wing governments - Franco, Antonescu, Hitler, Pinochet, Cristiani - have had massive bureacracies.

The right is for individual rights, less taxes, less regulations, and smaller gov't - all of which is the polar opposite of fascism. Fascism is all about total gov't control, the exact antithapy of the right; instead, it is the goal of the left. Can't see how you can possibly say the far right wants more gov't than the center right does, that makes no sense. Actually, it's the other way around, have you not heard of the Tea Party groups, who are demanding smaller and less intrusive gov't? These guys are not the center right, not even close.

Any kind of huge gov't with a large bureaucracy is by definiton a left wing gov't, with total or near total control of the citizenry. The far right wants the exact opposite, NO gov't control or very little, with an emphasis on individual liberties and rights. Such as property rights, do you think any of those regimes you mentioned allowed much in the way of property rights? NO - in each case the gov't made all the decisions about who gets what. NOBODY on the right, no matter how extreme you get, wants that.

You are a classic example of most right wing nutz I know personally and the bs they'll/you'll swallow and TRY and pass it off as fact. Just imagine how wrong you are on other important issues!?! lol

Let me simple it down for you seeing as you want to buck, facts, history, etc. Fascism=corporate/elitist run gov.......both of which are minority's and DOES NOT equal a democracy=majority "We The People" run gov.

 

[Fordsflylow]

Wiseacre -

As you can see from the graphic, the extreme left and extreme right are closer to each other than they are to the centre.

Bein in Nazi Germany no doubt felt more like being in Communist Russia than it did like the US or EU today.

But this does not mean they are the same - there are very key differences, as explained in the OP.

Conservatism champions small government, but the further to the right you go, the larger the government will be. All very powerful right wing governments - Franco, Antonescu, Hitler, Pinochet, Cristiani - have had massive bureacracies.

The right is for individual rights, less taxes, less regulations, and smaller gov't - all of which is the polar opposite of fascism. Fascism is all about total gov't control, the exact antithapy of the right; instead, it is the goal of the left. Can't see how you can possibly say the far right wants more gov't than the center right does, that makes no sense. Actually, it's the other way around, have you not heard of the Tea Party groups, who are demanding smaller and less intrusive gov't? These guys are not the center right, not even close.

Any kind of huge gov't with a large bureaucracy is by definiton a left wing gov't, with total or near total control of the citizenry. The far right wants the exact opposite, NO gov't control or very little, with an emphasis on individual liberties and rights. Such as property rights, do you think any of those regimes you mentioned allowed much in the way of property rights? NO - in each case the gov't made all the decisions about who gets what. NOBODY on the right, no matter how extreme you get, wants that.

By your definition, when is the last time we had a right wing president? It surely wasnt either of the Bushes or Reagan, since all three expanded the government.

...and increased the deficit far more than any dem president in the same time period. In fact, only one president actually balanced the budget - clinton.

The MISGUIDED reason the tea baggers hate the gov so much SHOULD be because it is run by mega-corp's and not the people. After all as this nation was intended to be run by the majority not a minority.

 

[Fordsflylow]

No. Fascism is a form of socialism.
.

Oh dear.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

And of course no amoint of information, dictionary definitions or sources could convince you of the fact that you are so obviously wrong.

The dictionaries are wrong. You are right.

Brilliant.


Definition of fascism
noun
[mass noun]

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices: this is yet another example of health fascism in action

Definition of fascism - political system, politics and practice

Dictionaries are written by liberals. Anything in them that is even remotely political is bullshit.

I feel sorry for voluntary idiots like yourself. What a waste of life you must live.

 

[Fordsflylow]

I don't know about fascism in foreign countries, but fascism in America sure as hell is the right-wing.

To achieve its goals, the fascist state purges forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration. Fascism promotes political violence and war as forms of direct action that promote national rejuvenation, spirit and vitality.

Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahh yes, one of the misguided souls my sig below was intended for.

 

[Fordsflylow]

Below is cut from a description of fascism. Sounds more like the democratic party and the liberal left to me.

snippet:

" Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions. "

Fascism: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

Actually, the American Right has unwittingly evolved into a statist monopoly protectorate. Consider Health Insurance, Oil or the Pharmaceuticals -- all of whom have senators in place to block any reform on their control of markets. These sectors fund elections and staff government for the purpose of creating a dynamic state sector which protects large corporations from market discipline. They have paid for extremely protectionist policies when it comes to the suppliers, but harsh market discipline for labor, which must compete globally. The right supports a very powerful subsidy system where the tax payer covers the costs.

Study the 2003 GOP Drug Bill. The market was abolished and the common man fooled. The mainstream Right may be rhetorically against intervention, but in practice they have been more interventionist than the Left by a long shot. Study K Street. The Right has handed the economy to large, unaccountable monopolies. In states like Iowa there are only two providers who have an anti-trust no-compete clause. This allows them to raise rates without losing customers. Same thing with cable providers. Cox and Charter have divided up states like California so they don't have to compete; so they don't have to invest in costly innovations to retain customers. These companies pour trillions into the GOP so they can avoid market discipline. C'mon People. Has anyone studied the methods of the Hammer (Delay)?

And what do the corporations who own government do with their profits? They pour them into talk radio which convinces well meaning idiots that any attempt to break up these monopolies is socialism. Everyone knows this, save the people who listen to talk radio.

Spot on and well written! Although I like to write, I have never been good at it. You put down in black and white EXACTLY how I have seen it for almost 3 decades. Good to read someone has similar views that are really indisputable. Mega-anything is bad for any nation.

 

[LilOlLady]

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis, 1935 --Talk of foresight--

 

[LilOlLady]

I don't know about fascism in foreign countries, but fascism in America sure as hell is the right-wing.

To achieve its goals, the fascist state purges forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration. Fascism promotes political violence and war as forms of direct action that promote national rejuvenation, spirit and vitality.

Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahh yes, one of the misguided souls my sig below was intended for.

 

[SniperFire]

Don't know where the graph came from, but it's bogus. Fascism/nazism are about gov't control, something the right is absolutely against. The right is for the opposite, smaller and less intrusive gov't. Any kind of totalitarianism is a far left form of gov't. The extreme right is for as little gov't as possible or no gov't at all. IOW, anarchy.

Correct, and no need to read this tard thread beyond your post. The Progressives try to cover their agenda by confusing the terms.

In OP context 'Far right' is a term of AUTHORITARIANISM. Nazis are Progressives in that they believed in a centrally planned society.

This is UNRELATED to far right American REPUBLICANISM, which in its ideal state is LIBERTARIANISM.

 

[Saigon]

Sniper Fire -

How do you explain the fact that basically all dictionaries and encyclopedias, not to mention academic texts, say exactly the opposite, and have done for the past 60 years?

Do you not think it is remotely possible that you are simply wrong?

 

[SniperFire]

Sniper Fire -

How do you explain the fact that basically all dictionaries and encyclopedias, not to mention academic texts, say exactly the opposite, and have done for the past 60 years?

Do you not think it is remotely possible that you are simply wrong?

Were Nazis authoritarian central planners, or not?

Are Communists authoritarian central planners, or not?

 

[Saigon]

Sniper Fire -

By all means read the OP, in which I explain why fascism is considered right wing, and then comment.

I would also refer you to books like Ian Kershaw's 'Nazi Dictatorship',and Michael Marris 'Holocaust in History', which formed the basis for my post.

 

[SniperFire]

Sniper Fire -

By all means read the OP, in which I explain why fascism is considered right wing, and then comment.

I would also refer you to books like Ian Kershaw's 'Nazi Dictatorship',and Michael Marris 'Holocaust in History', which formed the basis for my post.

Were Nazis authoritarian central planners, or not?

Are Communists authoritarian central planners, or not?

 

[SniperFire]

Nazi vs. Communism = Coke vs. Pepsi


Two variations of a theme.


Here is absolute proof:

[youtube]J_uC0wy_O90[/youtube]

 

[Sunni Man]

Both fascism and communism are left wing ideologies.

There is very little difference between the two.

 

[Saigon]

Both fascism and communism are left wing ideologies.

There is very little difference between the two.

We're up to four posters now!

The explanation as to why communism is left wing and fascist right wing is in the OP, Sunni. It's worth a read.

 

[SniperFire]

Both fascism and communism are left wing ideologies.

There is very little difference between the two.

Notice how OP can only respond 'nuh-uh! I like read a book on it!' when presented with the facts.


LOL

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Fascism is left wing in the relationship of the people (subjects) to the government, little else matters besides that. It is as left wing as its cousins Communism and Socialism and usually comes with a Charismatic dictator as well

 

[Saigon]

Fascism is left wing in the relationship of the people (subjects) to the government, little else matters besides that. It is as left wing as its cousins Communism and Socialism and usually comes with a Charismatic dictator as well

OK, we are now up to five people who either haven't read or didn't understand the OP.

Just to be clear here - this is NOT subjective, and is not a matter of opinion. It is purely and simply a question of being right or wrong. Which is why all dictionaries and encyclopedias and history books confirm that fascism is right wing, of course.

Always good to see posters lining up to be wrong!