F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Manonthestreet]

The B actually makes the most sense. Like to see more dispersal among ship classes. DDG maybe or new class purpose built for 2-3 of em

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The B actually makes the most sense. Like to see more dispersal among ship classes. DDG maybe or new class purpose built for 2-3 of em

Apparently you don't realize that the F-35B uses a rolling takeoff that is not possible on a DDG.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The B actually makes the most sense. Like to see more dispersal among ship classes. DDG maybe or new class purpose built for 2-3 of em

Apparently you don't realize that the F-35B uses a rolling takeoff that is not possible on a DDG.

It can take off vertically. But it can't pick up much doing so. It uses so much gas doing it that it shortens it's range severely even when just carrying the 6 internal missiles. It's funny, give it 50 feet on full afterburner with the lift fan door open and it can take off using less fuel than using the verticle takeoff. Give it 100 feet without after burner with the lift fan door open and it can take off fully loaded. For a ship you can put a 100 foot runway on, the B is a remarkable aircraft. Far superior to the Harrier.

 

[DrainBamage]

The US Navy now says it'll reach 355 ships by 2034, while whacking F-35Bs and a carrier from its five-year plan. What's the strategy? Navy Unveils Record Budget, Pushing Above 300 Ships
ooooopppps

Ahh you're interesting in judging F-35 by procurement planning versus actual.

Oooooops.

Also interesting was your link showed USN actually buying four more F-35Cs than planned in 2020, how many times have been yammering on in this thread about how USN F-35 program is in trouble and they don't want the plane?

 

[DrainBamage]

With the F-15X's inclusion in the budget came a whole new attitude toward buying any fighter but the F-35 from USAF officials.

As Darryl pointed out, there hasn't been a single F-35 cut by USAF, so this s yet more information where the only source is yourself.

If I was Boeing I'd be working on a the next air supe fighter for Navy fast as I could and put the F-35 out of its misery

I believe this, but you've demonstrated you don't really understand much about them and are willing to lie and purposely make misleading claims to support your advocacy. It doesn't it lend much weight to your "if I was" scenario.

 

[DrainBamage]

when is a cut not a cut ...when it's the F35 getting cut of course.....

So if in your simplistic fanboy world changes to procurement planned versus actual is an indication of what that service branch thinks of an airplane, how does USN increasing their F-35C buy not mean they are positive on the aircraft? I guess it only works one way for you, a cut means they don't like it but an increase must be waived away as politics.

You've been screaming that the program is in a death spiral for years in this thread, it must be quite frustrating for you that production and procurement keep accelerating for both DoD and international sales.

They'll cut more. So will AF. Pilot shortage and need for drones.

Yes there are dozens of posts with you predicting great cuts to the F-35 procurement, but it just hasn't happened. At what point do you maybe consider you don't know what you're talking about? (You don't have to answer that)

 

[DrainBamage]

Never said it could .....

But you did say F-18 can carry more ordnance, which is a lie.

You just spam lies all day in here and ignore anyone who challenges them.

 

[DrainBamage]

They are going to have to retro all you small carriers or just convert them to drone and choppers.. Cost for this program is going to sink the navy by itself

An example from a couple years ago of the "wisdom" of the village idiot.

F-35s have in fact been dropping a large share of the ordnance in Afghanistan via small carrier, yet the USN hasn't been sunk by the cost and they definitely haven't decided to convert them to choppers only.

When you're wrong enough times yet keep on making new gems for us to refer back to a few years from now.....

 

[DrainBamage]

you have short legs

Ignorance knows no bounds. F-35s combat radius is significantly greater than the F-16, F-18, and F-22. Only F-15 has longer legs.

The fact you're criticizing a fighter with much longer range than the majority of aircraft it's replacing or complementing is quite telling in how rationally you're approaching this whole thing.

 

[DrainBamage]

No just the facts...your ceiling is low Forties

When lying comes naturally....

F-35 service ceiling is listed as "above 50,000 feet", same as F-16 and F-18.

Source = USAF
F-35A Lightning II > U.S. Air Force > Fact Sheet Display

 

[Daryl Hunt]

They are going to have to retro all you small carriers or just convert them to drone and choppers.. Cost for this program is going to sink the navy by itself

An example from a couple years ago of the "wisdom" of the village idiot.

F-35s have in fact been dropping a large share of the ordnance in Afghanistan via small carrier, yet the USN hasn't been sunk by the cost and they definitely haven't decided to convert them to choppers only.

When you're wrong enough times yet keep on making new gems for us to refer back to a few years from now.....

They did have to upgrade the landing pad to take the extra heat that the exhaust from the F-35B puts out. Small price for such an asset.

 

[rylah]

The F-35's already visited Iran unnoticed.
As far as I understand the real deal is the F-22,
and what the Israelis developed until US forced closure.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The F-35's already visited Iran unnoticed.
As far as I understand the real deal is the F-22,
and what the Israelis developed until US forced closure.

That was one of the sore spots on Iran trying to put in S-300 missile batteries in Syria. They wanted to put them exactly where the F-35 has to refuel on the way in and on the way out of Iran. In this respect, the Israelis have no sense of humor. Iran has to build an Air Base to hit Israel with an Aircraft because it really doesn't have much of an inflight refueling fleet. Israel has one of the best in the world. Okay, not up to par with the US but who is. Even Britain needed the US refuelers for the Falklands.

 

[DrainBamage]

They did have to upgrade the landing pad to take the extra heat that the exhaust from the F-35B puts out. Small price for such an asset.

Yes, point was Manonthestreet was spinning that as some incredible hurdle to the success of the program, where they would have to choose between bankrupting the Navy by upgrading the decks or giving up on using F-35B from naval assets and converting them to simple helicopter carriers. Or when Navy has problem with catapult, Manonthestreet was in here proclaiming "The C is in trouble!" but of course USN just adjusted the tension bar and solved it for little cost.

It's clearly motivated by fanboyism, desperately framing anything he can as some program ending disaster. It's got to be frustrating to him that the "program death spiral" he's been predicting for years isn't happening.

 

[DrainBamage]

Even with these advantages, “aircraft reliability was poor enough that it was difficult for the Marines to keep more than two or three of the six embarked jets in a flyable status on any given day,” he wrote. Lockheed F-35 s Reliability Found Wanting in Shipboard Testing - Bloomberg Business
Wow...can you imagine how quickly your air wing would be inoperable under real conditions.....thing might only be good for pretty pictures and wasting money.

Another Manonthestreet gem.

Of course USMC has been running sorties at twice the rate as possible with Harriers and maintaining a 75% availability rate. As with all of Manonthestreet's comments, they passing of time exposes them as rubbish.

 

[DrainBamage]

No ifs about it. Wingman drones debuting now

You need to tell us more about the wingman drone debuting now. It appears that the rest of us don't have that much information at hand.

This is classic Manonthestreet, he just lies as needed to try to hold his own in here. He's referring to this, which he linked to in the military images thread: Boeing Will Unveil This 'Loyal Wingman' Combat Drone For Australia's Air Force Tomorrow (Updated)

According to that link Boeing has a "mockup" in a tent at a trade show, and is working on a prototype. In other words, this thing that Manonthestreet is describing as "debuting now" doesn't exist outside of some power point slides and a hollow concept model at a trade show. This is why he's the village idiot.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

No ifs about it. Wingman drones debuting now

You need to tell us more about the wingman drone debuting now. It appears that the rest of us don't have that much information at hand.

This is classic Manonthestreet, he just lies as needed to try to hold his own in here. He's referring to this, which he linked to in the military images thread: Boeing Will Unveil This 'Loyal Wingman' Combat Drone For Australia's Air Force Tomorrow (Updated)

According to that link Boeing has a "mockup" in a tent at a trade show, and is working on a prototype. In other words, this thing that Manonthestreet is describing as "debuting now" doesn't exist outside of some power point slides and a hollow concept model at a trade show. This is why he's the village idiot.

Yes, but Comrade Monobreath takes the view of the Russian and Chinese where if it's on a powerpoint, it's real and in operation. We don't. It has to be fully operational or it's not real.

 

[DrainBamage]

The Italians are in on the big conspiracy to lie about F-35's performance at Red Flag, they participated this year.

Aeronautica Militare, esercitazione "Red Flag 19-2": piloti italiani di F-35 volano per la prima volta con gli statunitensi ed i norvegesi. Commenti entusiasti sulle prestazioni del velivolo - Report Difesa

The weapon system was the most effective in neutralizing SAMs and absolutely essential in the immediate transmission of all the specific information for the success of the mission. "We knew we had an operating advantage, due to the 5th generation technology, but we didn't expect such a high rate of success - highlights the Major Emanuele A - in the 16 OCA missions (Offensive Counter Air) flown, against zero losses among the F-35s, we have neutralized more than 100 SAM systems ".
"I was impressed by the skills demonstrated by the F-35 in a complex and realistic environment such as the Red Flag where there are real professionals who simulate the Red Air, or the enemy air forces," added Major Giuseppe A. at the end of the exercise -. During our missions we were among the first to enter the area of operations, far beyond the enemy lines, and the last to leave it, thanks both to the great persistence and to the peculiar Low-Observability characteristics of our 5th generation aircraft. We were able to identify, transmit and neutralize terrestrial and air threats very quickly, protecting the coalition's assets in highly risky circumstances: the superior capabilities of the F-35 were often decisive ”.

Well damn this Italian who is actually a combat pilot needs to take some lessons from our own Manonthestreet, veteran basement dwelling blog reader who has assured us that the F-35 is not a stealthy aircraft.

 

[rylah]

The F-35's already visited Iran unnoticed.
As far as I understand the real deal is the F-22,
and what the Israelis developed until US forced closure.

That was one of the sore spots on Iran trying to put in S-300 missile batteries in Syria. They wanted to put them exactly where the F-35 has to refuel on the way in and on the way out of Iran. In this respect, the Israelis have no sense of humor. Iran has to build an Air Base to hit Israel with an Aircraft because it really doesn't have much of an inflight refueling fleet. Israel has one of the best in the world. Okay, not up to par with the US but who is. Even Britain needed the US refuelers for the Falklands.

The analysis might be correct,
if not for a false assumption regarding refueling and launching points.
Much of middle eastern skies are open for the IAF, and much more is opening.

The stealth of the craft is also a compatible function of the political alliance, everyone knows who, but no group of members can know for sure where, or be concretely linked to the mission itself or a particular action.

It did cause Russians to fly by them over Lebanon at night to the opposite direction completely unnoticed, making it seem seem as if they were starting approach from the Mediterranean, when already at the western border of Syria.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The F-35's already visited Iran unnoticed.
As far as I understand the real deal is the F-22,
and what the Israelis developed until US forced closure.

That was one of the sore spots on Iran trying to put in S-300 missile batteries in Syria. They wanted to put them exactly where the F-35 has to refuel on the way in and on the way out of Iran. In this respect, the Israelis have no sense of humor. Iran has to build an Air Base to hit Israel with an Aircraft because it really doesn't have much of an inflight refueling fleet. Israel has one of the best in the world. Okay, not up to par with the US but who is. Even Britain needed the US refuelers for the Falklands.

The analysis might be correct,
if not for a false assumption regarding refueling and launching points.
Much of middle eastern skies are open for the IAF, and much more is opening.

The stealth of the craft is also a compatible function of the political alliance, everyone knows who, but no group of members can know for sure where, or be concretely linked to the mission itself or a particular action.

It did cause Russians to fly by them over Lebanon at night to the opposite direction completely unnoticed, making it seem seem as if they were starting approach from the Mediterranean, when already at the western border of Syria.

Please expand on this. You are a bit confusing or maybe I am a bit confused.