F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[DrainBamage]

I, for one, will not speculate.

Said they guy who decided AMRAAMs in HOJ go ballistic if radiation source goes away, claims Russian IR sensors are better than has to admit he has no idea the technical specs of either system, thinks standoff jamming is suitable for moving airborne targets, thought US didn't use IR systems over previous decades, etc.

 

[DrainBamage]

There you go again. You are requiring the Russians to fly with the Radar On while the US flies with it's Radar off. How Monobreath of you.

Reading comprehension fail. This was my post:

"Why and how would they be trying to close on F-22s that they don't even know are there? Answer = they wouldn't. They are flying blind, while broadcasting their position to F-22s from hundreds of miles away by emitting strong RF. Massive holes in your logic, and you just keep repeating them."

I'm astounded that you are so out of your depth in this discussion that I need to explain what "flying blind" means, but I'll help you out... It means the Russians aren't using their radars. You said they wouldn't be using their radars and barrage jamming, so that's exactly the scenario I went with. It's pretty funny that you are flailing so badly here you are forced to (again) state the opposite of what I said to have something to argue against.

So which was it, did you not understand what "flying blind" means or where you again going strawman by purposely misstating my position?

 

[DrainBamage]

His information is sound. The only way you can dispute it is to try and discredit the author. That tells me that you are quite busy digging that hole.

So you say, but you've shown over and over here that you really don't understand a lot of this (sometimes hilariouslso you desperately googling until you find something you like then declaring the amateur blogger an expert who is smarter than everyone doesn't really lend much weight.

You think his information is sound, but how do you know? Do you know anything about him his experience his credentials? Was he a fighter pilot?

You don't know, anymore than you know anything about the IR systems you were busted pretending to know a lot about. It's funny you keep referencing Manonthestreet but you're doing the exact same thing he does, googling for blogs that suit his worldview then posting it as fact without being able to back up or explain your position. In your case it's more often just lying about what I said then attacking that instead, which is itself a good indicator of where you stand here.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

His information is sound. The only way you can dispute it is to try and discredit the author. That tells me that you are quite busy digging that hole.

So you say, but you've shown over and over here that you really don't understand a lot of this (sometimes hilariouslso you desperately googling until you find something you like then declaring the amateur blogger an expert who is smarter than everyone doesn't really lend much weight.

You think his information is sound, but how do you know? Do you know anything about him his experience his credentials? Was he a fighter pilot?

You don't know, anymore than you know anything about the IR systems you were busted pretending to know a lot about. It's funny you keep referencing Manonthestreet but you're doing the exact same thing he does, googling for blogs that suit his worldview then posting it as fact without being able to back up or explain your position. In your case it's more often just lying about what I said then attacking that instead, which is itself a good indicator of where you stand here.

How do I know? How does an Analyst know that hasn't piloted even one hour. He talks to the ones that have. He pays attention and learns in his professional capacity . I am retired Air Force. I don't need to be an expert in the field to have a rudimentary knowledge of how it works. I have been involved in War Games. I got roped in once as the Soviet Air Force for one. It was their way of cheating having a lowly enlisted man in that position.. What they got was a Military Historian that understood both sides tactics. I used a mix of Soviet and US Navy Tactics on them and they never saw it coming. I used Numbers and Junk against Quality. Using the Mig-25 to simulate high altitude bombers and sending waves of Mig-23s with Mig-27 racks (they didn't know the racks fit both birds), when they finally noticed the real threats, they disengaged from the Mig-25s and the Mig-25s went to long range fighter mode. These were F-15 Pilots with hitches in their gitalongs. I used their own egos against them. In 6 minutes real time, almost all German bases with fighters were destroyed. Only the In the end, it was the SU-7 against the A-10. And I already know how to use an A-7 to defeat an A-10 almost 100% of the time and the SU-7 was very close to the A-7 in performance. It wasn't a win, just a delaying action. Since Britain could not be taken without going full on Nukes, it could be used to do an Allied Resupply and buildup. This action was only good for no more than 3 days. At that point, both side start talking peace talks and who gets what territory. The next year, no enlisted people were used and our Wing King had quite a feather in his cap with his Joke on them. The morons used a game that the two enlisted people were both experts at and the Wing King knew it. So both sides cheated. And if you think that things are going to be exactly the way you perceive them to be, don't. That is exactly the same mistake that the Japanese War Game played just before they entered into the Battle of Midway. The Japanese cheated in their games and had their butts handed to them soundly.

 

[DrainBamage]

How do I know?

Exactly. You have no idea what his qualifications are but after some desperate googling you present this amateur blogger as some expert.

I can find a different blogger with a different opinion to say anything I want, but I don't need to because I've been able to systematically and methodically pick apart every attempt you've made to support your argument that barrage jamming will force a WVR fight. You failed to explain how it could be done, you repeatedly demonstrated you didn't understand basic technical aspects of what's in play, you were caught manufacturing information multiple times, you leaned on appeal to authority and strawman fallacies more times than I can count, and now you've become a Google warrior searching for blog posts that suit your argument.

Do you realize David Axe from War is Boring is the exact idiot who wrote that article a few years back concluding claiming the F-35 can't even beat the F-16 it is replacing. His conclusion was "within a few decades, American and allied aviators will fly into battle in an inferior fighter — one that could get them killed … and cost the United States control of the air." Of course his article was soundly debunked since it was an early model F-35 that was testing software limitations on control surfaces, various actual pilots weighed in that F-35 was far better than Axe thought, and it went on to post devastating kill ratios in exercises against F-15s and F-16s.

That is who you've hitched your wagon to. Congrats.

 

[DrainBamage]

The death spiral of the F-35 program continues....

Belgium Picks the F-35: President Macron Responds - Second Line of Defense

Belgium Picks the F-35

“We have landed! This government is investing heavily in defense. With the purchase of F-35A fighter planes ... we ensure your safety and that of our military,” Belgian Defence Minister Steven Vandeput said on Twitter during the news conference. “The offer from the Americans was the best in all our seven evaluation criteria,” he later told reporters. The jets, which can avoid detection and tracking by enemy radars or heat sensors, aim to offer NATO allies technological superiority with additional capabilities such as the ability to disrupt enemy communications networks and navigation signals. The pick makes Belgium the 12th country to choose the F-35, which comes in three variants - the F-35A conventional take-off and landing model, the F-35B, a short take-off or vertical landing version, and the F-35C, used aboard aircraft carriers. Belgium has chosen the conventional version of the plane, with the first deliveries scheduled for 2023.


Belgium is buying 34 F-35As. Germany's upcoming decisions on replacement of Tornado will be interesting since a lot more politics will be at play given they are founding partners in Eurofighter Typhoon, which was just beaten by F-35 in Belgium.

Finland is also currently taking bids for 64 fighters to replace it's aging F-18s, and I've money on F-35 there too for same reason F-18 was well suited... it's designed and qualified for all-weather rough conditions of at-sea deployment on aircraft carriers so makes sense for Finland's semi-arctic environments.

 

[WheelieAddict]

The F-35 has enough corporate welfare to be a success.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

How do I know?

Exactly. You have no idea what his qualifications are but after some desperate googling you present this amateur blogger as some expert.

I can find a different blogger with a different opinion to say anything I want, but I don't need to because I've been able to systematically and methodically pick apart every attempt you've made to support your argument that barrage jamming will force a WVR fight. You failed to explain how it could be done, you repeatedly demonstrated you didn't understand basic technical aspects of what's in play, you were caught manufacturing information multiple times, you leaned on appeal to authority and strawman fallacies more times than I can count, and now you've become a Google warrior searching for blog posts that suit your argument.

Do you realize David Axe from War is Boring is the exact idiot who wrote that article a few years back concluding claiming the F-35 can't even beat the F-16 it is replacing. His conclusion was "within a few decades, American and allied aviators will fly into battle in an inferior fighter — one that could get them killed … and cost the United States control of the air." Of course his article was soundly debunked since it was an early model F-35 that was testing software limitations on control surfaces, various actual pilots weighed in that F-35 was far better than Axe thought, and it went on to post devastating kill ratios in exercises against F-15s and F-16s.

That is who you've hitched your wagon to. Congrats.

I see your standard. As long as I 100% agree with you I am your hero and an expert. But let me disagree with you and I become a crank that knows nothing. I think you have ended this with your hypocrisy. Have a nice day.

 

[DrainBamage]

I see your standard. As long as I 100% agree with you I am your hero and an expert. But let me disagree with you and I become a crank that knows nothing.

Hah my how seamlessly you slid from the "I know more because I know more, go eat chop suey" bully mode into melodramatic victim.

My standard is simple, present your case with facts and back it up by responding to the argument being made by others. I have no time for people making things up, appealing to authority in lieu of being able to state your case, and the repeated decrying straw man arguments that I never made.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I see your standard. As long as I 100% agree with you I am your hero and an expert. But let me disagree with you and I become a crank that knows nothing.

Hah my how seamlessly you slid from the "I know more because I know more, go eat chop suey" bully mode into melodramatic victim.

My standard is simple, present your case with facts and back it up by responding to the argument being made by others. I have no time for people making things up, appealing to authority in lieu of being able to state your case, and the repeated decrying straw man arguments that I never made.

You have already been dismissed. Do you know what that means Pseudo Airman? Many of the rest of know.

 

[DrainBamage]

You have already been dismissed. Do you know what that means Pseudo Airman? Many of the rest of know.

... and we're done with the victim and back to Mr. Authority.

I guess when you get proven incapable of supporting the BS you were spewing, and exposed repeatedly for misunderstanding relatively basic aspects of this discussion all you can do is imagine this will convince someone.

 

[DrainBamage]

I bet a A10 can fly in at 50 foot hit the target and leave without getting hit.

To take this a bit farther, here was their experience with them in contested airspace in Iraq:

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I bet a A10 can fly in at 50 foot hit the target and leave without getting hit.

To take this a bit farther, here was their experience with them in contested airspace in Iraq:

The same thing happened at the Airport where the last standing of the Revolutionary Guard was. The Army sent in their AH-64 to take care of it. They lost one with the crew captured, and not one single returning Apache was deemed serviceable due to battle damage when they returned. The Guard was still there. They sent in AF F-16s that were very effective and it was prepared for the Army and Marine ground forces to take the Iraqi Revolutionary Guard Forces out. It was another case of using the wrong tool for the wrong job.

But the A-10 has a lower cost of operation than the F-16. Although it has a shorter range, inside of that range, it is more deadly if the air threats are not there. That means that if it's ISIS or Taliban the A-10 should be the chosen first weapon. The same can be said for the AC-130. In fact, anything you say about one can be said about the other. While the AC-130 has a much higher operating cost per flight, it does much more damage per flying hour or flight. But the A-10 can be resortied 3 times in one day with 3 short one or two hour flights to hot spots to support troops in serious trouble. There IS a mind game played when an A-10 is operating in an area. he isn't there long and he isn't loitering. He is there firing his weapons and both sides mentally feel his presence. Both sides put their heads down. One side is fearful and the other side is jubilant. Even if it were possible, no overrun will happen at that point. And there will probably be a withdrawal of the enemies forces at the very least. This really can't be done by any other type of aircraft in the US inventory at this time until we get the next gen slow moving attack birds in the air and into service. The A-10 is still needed. And it's paid for so why not use it.

 

[Manonthestreet]

You keep saying things I didnt say to try to make yourself look smart

Come on dude, nobody needs to make any effort to look smart when responding to "All combat loaded aircraft fly at their listed max speed" guy who brags he posts the most links.

......nobody wants to address fact they aren't ordering the last batch as planned.....First nation to use it in "combat" or operationally and this would seem to point to them being underwhelmed with it.

Okay let's look at your conclusion that their combat experience with F-35 was the reason they are buying more F-15s.

From May 17: Israel to link fleet upgrade with follow-on F-15I buy
Israel has proposed a deal to purchase additional Boeing F-15s, in a package that would also include upgrading the Israeli air force's existing I-model examples of the strike aircraft. Worth almost $4 billion, the potential purchase would include 25 twin-engined F-15Is in an advanced configuration. The new version's airframe would have an extended lifespan and enhanced features including a large-area cockpit display. The purchase of additional F-15s has recently gained priority for the Israeli air force's high command over ordering aircraft for a third squadron of Lockheed Martin F-35Is. The rationale for this decision is that while the F-35's stealth features are essential at the start of a conflict, the type will need be flown during later combat sorties in conjunction with assets capable of carrying a heavier weapons load.



They are going with a F-35/F-15 mix because they need a platform that can haul 5,000lb class weapons really far, hello Iran. If this news was coming out in May 17 they were making the analysis and proposal for F-15s well before F-35 was used in combat, so you have a serious logic fail.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/why-israelis-want-larger-more-modern-f-15-fleet
The decision to embark on this upgrade program was made two years ago, in spite of the nation’s planned purchase of the Lockheed Martin F-35. An Israeli source says the air force is looking as far ahead as 40 years. “The F-15 has a lot of advantages. It can be equipped with Israeli-developed systems, an upgrade that can be performed on the F-35 to a clear limit,” says the source. Israel regards its F-15 fleet to be the backbone of its attacking capability. As such, it is considering the purchase of additional F-15s....

...The clear tendency in the Israeli Air Force is to first purchase additional new F-15s and only then consider whether to fulfill the original plan of 75 F-35s. In November 2016, the Israeli cabinet approved the purchase of another 17 Lockheed Martin F-35s, for a total 50 of the stealth fighters. Israeli sources say talks continue with the U.S. Defense Department about the potential purchase of 20-25 advanced F-15s..

Too expesive to risk in ground support where stealth matters not.

Yet another logic fail, an F-35A costs significantly less than a brand new F-15I.

Like I said by time those F-15 are delivered it will be yrs down the road...….virtual cancellation without saying cancelled

The new F-15 IA was chosen by the IDF and Israel Air Force (IAF) as the new fighter jet to be acquired over the next decade, according to an official announcement Saturday. IAF to supplement F-35 stealth jets with upgraded F-15 IA
Unfortunately they were railroaded into buying 1 more worthless F-35 sqdn to get the F-15's

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You keep saying things I didnt say to try to make yourself look smart

Come on dude, nobody needs to make any effort to look smart when responding to "All combat loaded aircraft fly at their listed max speed" guy who brags he posts the most links.

......nobody wants to address fact they aren't ordering the last batch as planned.....First nation to use it in "combat" or operationally and this would seem to point to them being underwhelmed with it.

Okay let's look at your conclusion that their combat experience with F-35 was the reason they are buying more F-15s.

From May 17: Israel to link fleet upgrade with follow-on F-15I buy
Israel has proposed a deal to purchase additional Boeing F-15s, in a package that would also include upgrading the Israeli air force's existing I-model examples of the strike aircraft. Worth almost $4 billion, the potential purchase would include 25 twin-engined F-15Is in an advanced configuration. The new version's airframe would have an extended lifespan and enhanced features including a large-area cockpit display. The purchase of additional F-15s has recently gained priority for the Israeli air force's high command over ordering aircraft for a third squadron of Lockheed Martin F-35Is. The rationale for this decision is that while the F-35's stealth features are essential at the start of a conflict, the type will need be flown during later combat sorties in conjunction with assets capable of carrying a heavier weapons load.



They are going with a F-35/F-15 mix because they need a platform that can haul 5,000lb class weapons really far, hello Iran. If this news was coming out in May 17 they were making the analysis and proposal for F-15s well before F-35 was used in combat, so you have a serious logic fail.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/why-israelis-want-larger-more-modern-f-15-fleet
The decision to embark on this upgrade program was made two years ago, in spite of the nation’s planned purchase of the Lockheed Martin F-35. An Israeli source says the air force is looking as far ahead as 40 years. “The F-15 has a lot of advantages. It can be equipped with Israeli-developed systems, an upgrade that can be performed on the F-35 to a clear limit,” says the source. Israel regards its F-15 fleet to be the backbone of its attacking capability. As such, it is considering the purchase of additional F-15s....

...The clear tendency in the Israeli Air Force is to first purchase additional new F-15s and only then consider whether to fulfill the original plan of 75 F-35s. In November 2016, the Israeli cabinet approved the purchase of another 17 Lockheed Martin F-35s, for a total 50 of the stealth fighters. Israeli sources say talks continue with the U.S. Defense Department about the potential purchase of 20-25 advanced F-15s..

Too expesive to risk in ground support where stealth matters not.

Yet another logic fail, an F-35A costs significantly less than a brand new F-15I.

Like I said by time those F-15 are delivered it will be yrs down the road...….virtual cancellation without saying cancelled

The new F-15 IA was chosen by the IDF and Israel Air Force (IAF) as the new fighter jet to be acquired over the next decade, according to an official announcement Saturday. IAF to supplement F-35 stealth jets with upgraded F-15 IA
Unfortunately they were railroaded into buying 1 more worthless F-35 sqdn to get the F-15's

Your own cite shows that they not are buying any new F-15s. The are upgrading what they have. Funny, but they are upgrading really old F-15As but with low flight hours. They are upgrading them to the either the new E or the new X models. That makes them extremely dangerous and capable of taking on anything the Russians or the Chinese have. And they are buying more F-35As. This makes them able to take on Iran in a cakewalk.

 

[Manonthestreet]

You keep saying things I didnt say to try to make yourself look smart

Come on dude, nobody needs to make any effort to look smart when responding to "All combat loaded aircraft fly at their listed max speed" guy who brags he posts the most links.

......nobody wants to address fact they aren't ordering the last batch as planned.....First nation to use it in "combat" or operationally and this would seem to point to them being underwhelmed with it.

Okay let's look at your conclusion that their combat experience with F-35 was the reason they are buying more F-15s.

From May 17: Israel to link fleet upgrade with follow-on F-15I buy
Israel has proposed a deal to purchase additional Boeing F-15s, in a package that would also include upgrading the Israeli air force's existing I-model examples of the strike aircraft. Worth almost $4 billion, the potential purchase would include 25 twin-engined F-15Is in an advanced configuration. The new version's airframe would have an extended lifespan and enhanced features including a large-area cockpit display. The purchase of additional F-15s has recently gained priority for the Israeli air force's high command over ordering aircraft for a third squadron of Lockheed Martin F-35Is. The rationale for this decision is that while the F-35's stealth features are essential at the start of a conflict, the type will need be flown during later combat sorties in conjunction with assets capable of carrying a heavier weapons load.



They are going with a F-35/F-15 mix because they need a platform that can haul 5,000lb class weapons really far, hello Iran. If this news was coming out in May 17 they were making the analysis and proposal for F-15s well before F-35 was used in combat, so you have a serious logic fail.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/why-israelis-want-larger-more-modern-f-15-fleet
The decision to embark on this upgrade program was made two years ago, in spite of the nation’s planned purchase of the Lockheed Martin F-35. An Israeli source says the air force is looking as far ahead as 40 years. “The F-15 has a lot of advantages. It can be equipped with Israeli-developed systems, an upgrade that can be performed on the F-35 to a clear limit,” says the source. Israel regards its F-15 fleet to be the backbone of its attacking capability. As such, it is considering the purchase of additional F-15s....

...The clear tendency in the Israeli Air Force is to first purchase additional new F-15s and only then consider whether to fulfill the original plan of 75 F-35s. In November 2016, the Israeli cabinet approved the purchase of another 17 Lockheed Martin F-35s, for a total 50 of the stealth fighters. Israeli sources say talks continue with the U.S. Defense Department about the potential purchase of 20-25 advanced F-15s..

Too expesive to risk in ground support where stealth matters not.

Yet another logic fail, an F-35A costs significantly less than a brand new F-15I.

Like I said by time those F-15 are delivered it will be yrs down the road...….virtual cancellation without saying cancelled

The new F-15 IA was chosen by the IDF and Israel Air Force (IAF) as the new fighter jet to be acquired over the next decade, according to an official announcement Saturday. IAF to supplement F-35 stealth jets with upgraded F-15 IA
Unfortunately they were railroaded into buying 1 more worthless F-35 sqdn to get the F-15's

Your own cite shows that they not are buying any new F-15s. The are upgrading what they have. Funny, but they are upgrading really old F-15As but with low flight hours. They are upgrading them to the either the new E or the new X models. That makes them extremely dangerous and capable of taking on anything the Russians or the Chinese have. And they are buying more F-35As. This makes them able to take on Iran in a cakewalk.

The new F-15 IA was chosen by the IDF and Israel Air Force (IAF) as the new fighter jet to be acquired over the next decade, according to an official announcement Saturday.
OMG quit being so stupid.....see you've been making some of my arguments...ooops getting old cant remember what ya posted

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You keep saying things I didnt say to try to make yourself look smart

Come on dude, nobody needs to make any effort to look smart when responding to "All combat loaded aircraft fly at their listed max speed" guy who brags he posts the most links.

......nobody wants to address fact they aren't ordering the last batch as planned.....First nation to use it in "combat" or operationally and this would seem to point to them being underwhelmed with it.

Okay let's look at your conclusion that their combat experience with F-35 was the reason they are buying more F-15s.

From May 17: Israel to link fleet upgrade with follow-on F-15I buy
Israel has proposed a deal to purchase additional Boeing F-15s, in a package that would also include upgrading the Israeli air force's existing I-model examples of the strike aircraft. Worth almost $4 billion, the potential purchase would include 25 twin-engined F-15Is in an advanced configuration. The new version's airframe would have an extended lifespan and enhanced features including a large-area cockpit display. The purchase of additional F-15s has recently gained priority for the Israeli air force's high command over ordering aircraft for a third squadron of Lockheed Martin F-35Is. The rationale for this decision is that while the F-35's stealth features are essential at the start of a conflict, the type will need be flown during later combat sorties in conjunction with assets capable of carrying a heavier weapons load.



They are going with a F-35/F-15 mix because they need a platform that can haul 5,000lb class weapons really far, hello Iran. If this news was coming out in May 17 they were making the analysis and proposal for F-15s well before F-35 was used in combat, so you have a serious logic fail.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/why-israelis-want-larger-more-modern-f-15-fleet
The decision to embark on this upgrade program was made two years ago, in spite of the nation’s planned purchase of the Lockheed Martin F-35. An Israeli source says the air force is looking as far ahead as 40 years. “The F-15 has a lot of advantages. It can be equipped with Israeli-developed systems, an upgrade that can be performed on the F-35 to a clear limit,” says the source. Israel regards its F-15 fleet to be the backbone of its attacking capability. As such, it is considering the purchase of additional F-15s....

...The clear tendency in the Israeli Air Force is to first purchase additional new F-15s and only then consider whether to fulfill the original plan of 75 F-35s. In November 2016, the Israeli cabinet approved the purchase of another 17 Lockheed Martin F-35s, for a total 50 of the stealth fighters. Israeli sources say talks continue with the U.S. Defense Department about the potential purchase of 20-25 advanced F-15s..

Too expesive to risk in ground support where stealth matters not.

Yet another logic fail, an F-35A costs significantly less than a brand new F-15I.

Like I said by time those F-15 are delivered it will be yrs down the road...….virtual cancellation without saying cancelled

The new F-15 IA was chosen by the IDF and Israel Air Force (IAF) as the new fighter jet to be acquired over the next decade, according to an official announcement Saturday. IAF to supplement F-35 stealth jets with upgraded F-15 IA
Unfortunately they were railroaded into buying 1 more worthless F-35 sqdn to get the F-15's

Your own cite shows that they not are buying any new F-15s. The are upgrading what they have. Funny, but they are upgrading really old F-15As but with low flight hours. They are upgrading them to the either the new E or the new X models. That makes them extremely dangerous and capable of taking on anything the Russians or the Chinese have. And they are buying more F-35As. This makes them able to take on Iran in a cakewalk.

The new F-15 IA was chosen by the IDF and Israel Air Force (IAF) as the new fighter jet to be acquired over the next decade, according to an official announcement Saturday.
OMG quit being so stupid.....see you've been making some of my arguments...ooops getting old cant remember what ya posted

Acquired means purchased. They aren't purchasing, they are upgrading what they already have. Your article can't quite makes it mind up what the real thing is. Says loads about it's authenticity.

But they are also buying the Saudi version at a whopping 110 mil a copy. It's a good mix using both the F-15SA along with the F-35A. The F-35 spots and the F-15 kills. Same goes for ground attack. The F-35 clears a corridor and the F-15 kills.

I may be old but I'm still smarter than you are. Then again, a rock sinking in the pond is smarter than you are.

I have no idea why you are down on the F-35 so bad. It's passed every test it's ever been given hands down. With the coming S-300 and 400 systems, the F-35 is more important in Israels stable than ever before. The Iranians want to put those systems in Syria right under where the F-35 has to refuel. I guess the Iranians are getting sick and tired of the F-35 overflights over Iran. Not to worry, when they start trying to setup those sites, the F-35, F-15 and the F-16 has nothing better to do than turn it all into a junk heap. And there isn't a thing Iran can do about it.

 

[DrainBamage]

The new F-15 IA was chosen by the IDF and Israel Air Force (IAF) as the new fighter jet to be acquired over the next decade, according to an official announcement Saturday. IAF to supplement F-35 stealth jets with upgraded F-15 IA
Unfortunately they were railroaded into buying 1 more worthless F-35 sqdn to get the F-15's

Hah that's a cute way to twist facts. If they buy F-15s, it's what they wanted. If they buy F-35s, they were railroaded. Here's what the link you have says:

"In addition to continuing purchasing F-35 multirole stealth fighters, IAF decides to upgrade its dependable F-15 fleet with improved model capable of carrying 13 tons of explosives with advanced avionics"

"Once the third squadron is complete, approximately in 10 years time, the IAF will have at least 75 F-35 stealth aircraft at its disposal."



So it says they will continue procuring F-35s and will have 75 within 10 years. Does 75 aircraft indicate they chose something else instead? Nope. Here is an article about Israel F-35 procurement from 2012, at Exclusive: U.S., Lockheed reach deal on Israeli F-35s | Reuters

"The deal, to be finalized in coming weeks, marks a big step forward for Israel’s $2.75 billion agreement to buy 19 F-35 jets, which was signed in October 2010 and includes options for up to 75 of the radar-evading fighters."


Here is from 2016, at Liberman unveils Israel’s future stealth fighter: The F-35

"Israel has purchased 33 of these fighter jets so far, but the Israeli Air Force has expressed interest in more than twice that. IDF Chief of Staff Gadi Eisenkot has already approved the purchase of 17 more planes for a total of 50, but Kelman and the IAF want to bring that number up to 75 in the years to come."

So you're posting something that says they will continue buying F-35s until they have 75, which is what the original number mentioned in 2012 (when they first finalized their purchase plants) and 2016 when they received their first fighter. What kind of moron looks at an article saying they are buying F-15s in addition to the 75 F-35s, and concudes 75 is less than the orignal 75?

F-15I offers capabilities they need because of a distinct mission requirement that they can carry a very heavy payload to Iran. Your logic is like thinking because USAF bought F-111s they have decided they don't like their F-4s.

 

[DrainBamage]

I have no idea why you are down on the F-35 so bad. It's passed every test it's ever been given hands down.

He's anti-35 because he spent so much time ranting in here about how much of a failure it would be before it started flying and proved him wrong. His pride won't let him admit he was wrong so he just keeps plugging away even though most of the plane's detractors including many he quoted from years ago in this thread have changed their tune about F-35.

He's at the point where instead of trying to look at facts objectively to reach a conclusion, he's trying to shape/spin reality so it matches the conclusion he had.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The new F-15 IA was chosen by the IDF and Israel Air Force (IAF) as the new fighter jet to be acquired over the next decade, according to an official announcement Saturday. IAF to supplement F-35 stealth jets with upgraded F-15 IA
Unfortunately they were railroaded into buying 1 more worthless F-35 sqdn to get the F-15's

Hah that's a cute way to twist facts. If they buy F-15s, it's what they wanted. If they buy F-35s, they were railroaded. Here's what the link you have says:

"In addition to continuing purchasing F-35 multirole stealth fighters, IAF decides to upgrade its dependable F-15 fleet with improved model capable of carrying 13 tons of explosives with advanced avionics"

"Once the third squadron is complete, approximately in 10 years time, the IAF will have at least 75 F-35 stealth aircraft at its disposal."



So it says they will continue procuring F-35s and will have 75 within 10 years. Does 75 aircraft indicate they chose something else instead? Nope. Here is an article about Israel F-35 procurement from 2012, at Exclusive: U.S., Lockheed reach deal on Israeli F-35s | Reuters

"The deal, to be finalized in coming weeks, marks a big step forward for Israel’s $2.75 billion agreement to buy 19 F-35 jets, which was signed in October 2010 and includes options for up to 75 of the radar-evading fighters."


Here is from 2016, at Liberman unveils Israel’s future stealth fighter: The F-35

"Israel has purchased 33 of these fighter jets so far, but the Israeli Air Force has expressed interest in more than twice that. IDF Chief of Staff Gadi Eisenkot has already approved the purchase of 17 more planes for a total of 50, but Kelman and the IAF want to bring that number up to 75 in the years to come."

So you're posting something that says they will continue buying F-35s until they have 75, which is what the original number mentioned in 2012 (when they first finalized their purchase plants) and 2016 when they received their first fighter. What kind of moron looks at an article saying they are buying F-15s in addition to the 75 F-35s, and concudes 75 is less than the orignal 75?

F-15I offers capabilities they need because of a distinct mission requirement that they can carry a very heavy payload to Iran. Your logic is like thinking because USAF bought F-111s they have decided they don't like their F-4s.

Since the new generation of the F-15 is based on the E model, that model also makes one hell off a long range bomber. It flies out of England and can hit targets in Russia with Nukes and make it home, that is, if there is a home to come back to. If there isn't, they can meet up with a Tanker in the Atlantic and make it back to Newfoundland. The F-15E has the range to not need inflight refueling to hit Iran and then return.

Until the Israelis get those stealth Conformal Tanks for the F-35, it will be required to refuel over Syria both ways. Are they doing that now? There has been come complaints come of Iran complaining of overflights of F-35s. Now, I don't know if it really was a F-35. It could have been a F-15 with some neat pod toys. But overflights are probably happening. This is why the Iranians announced they are moving SA missiles into Syria. Yes, right under where the F-35 would be refueling. Of course, Israel has announced they will make them into slag heaps. No Iranian SA missiles sites or mobile sites have been put into that part of Syria.