F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Daryl Hunt]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

 

[Bleipriester]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

 

[Bleipriester]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

The two F-135s had the reflectors installed so that the ground FAA type radars could track them. Plus, while your system was in operation, both F-35s stayed on the ground as static displays. At no time was your system ever tried when the F-35s were in the air being flown by Air Force Pilots without the Radar Reflectors installed.

This is from your very own cite. Your article means nothing, says nothing and does nothing. It only tries to sell an unproven German portable Radar Detection System.

 

[Bleipriester]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

The two F-135s had the reflectors installed so that the ground FAA type radars could track them. Plus, while your system was in operation, both F-35s stayed on the ground as static displays. At no time was your system ever tried when the F-35s were in the air being flown by Air Force Pilots without the Radar Reflectors installed.

This is from your very own cite. Your article means nothing, says nothing and does nothing. It only tries to sell an unproven German portable Radar Detection System.

Words don´t change anything. Search the webs. They are all developing this type of radar. "Stealth" is done.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

The two F-135s had the reflectors installed so that the ground FAA type radars could track them. Plus, while your system was in operation, both F-35s stayed on the ground as static displays. At no time was your system ever tried when the F-35s were in the air being flown by Air Force Pilots without the Radar Reflectors installed.

This is from your very own cite. Your article means nothing, says nothing and does nothing. It only tries to sell an unproven German portable Radar Detection System.

Words don´t change anything. Search the webs. They are all developing this type of radar. "Stealth" is done.

Matter Transmission is also being worked on by everyone. How's that going? I will admit that within 10 years, Stealth will have to be upgraded in order to continue to be effective. Right now, Stealth is about 3 steps ahead of detection. But the current stealth won't stay that way with the improvements in detections. But you keep banking on Stealth staying like it is. In the last 5 years, Stealth has made a remarkable upgrade. And the bird that has benefited from it has been the F-35 alone. The next gen Stealth will make even a bigger breakthough. Meanwhile, your detection will also become better but it's still about 3 gens behind every step of the way. The F-22 will become outdated far before the F-35 will. Why aren't you dogging the older, non ungradeable F-22? You praise the F-22. This is why the 6th gen US Fighter isn't to replace the F-35. It's to replace the F-22 while the F-35 continues to go forward.

 

[Pilot1]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

From your article.

Camped out amid equines, engineers got word from the Schönefeld tower about when the F-35s were slated to take off. Once the planes were airborne, the company says it started tracking them and collecting data, using signals from the planes’ ADS-B transponders to correlate the passive sensor readings.

I have ADS-B In and Out in my plane and can do the same thing as it shows other traffic. Do you think the F-35 would have it's transponder transmit and receive this type of data during combat ops? Ahhh, no.

 

[westwall]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

From your article.

Camped out amid equines, engineers got word from the Schönefeld tower about when the F-35s were slated to take off. Once the planes were airborne, the company says it started tracking them and collecting data, using signals from the planes’ ADS-B transponders to correlate the passive sensor readings.

I have ADS-B In and Out in my plane and can do the same thing as it shows other traffic. Do you think the F-35 would have it's transponder transmit and receive this type of data during combat ops? Ahhh, no.

Non aviators really have no clue. I don't like the F35 because I believe it costs far too much for what we are getting. It is still a pretty good aircraft, it's just not as good as it should be for the money.

 

[Pilot1]

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

From your article.

Camped out amid equines, engineers got word from the Schönefeld tower about when the F-35s were slated to take off. Once the planes were airborne, the company says it started tracking them and collecting data, using signals from the planes’ ADS-B transponders to correlate the passive sensor readings.

I have ADS-B In and Out in my plane and can do the same thing as it shows other traffic. Do you think the F-35 would have it's transponder transmit and receive this type of data during combat ops? Ahhh, no.

Non aviators really have no clue. I don't like the F35 because I believe it costs far too much for what we are getting. It is still a pretty good aircraft, it's just not as good as it should be for the money.

I really don't know much about it as I've not taken the time to do the research. All this stuff is way too expensive. The Military Industrial complex is so powerful that we keep buying more, and more expensive hardware they may not even be necessary in the scenarios that are the most likely present day, and in the future.

I do see a battlefield, air, and ocean without human combatants in the future using AI. Which is scary, and also EXPENSIVE.

 

[Bleipriester]

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

The two F-135s had the reflectors installed so that the ground FAA type radars could track them. Plus, while your system was in operation, both F-35s stayed on the ground as static displays. At no time was your system ever tried when the F-35s were in the air being flown by Air Force Pilots without the Radar Reflectors installed.

This is from your very own cite. Your article means nothing, says nothing and does nothing. It only tries to sell an unproven German portable Radar Detection System.

Words don´t change anything. Search the webs. They are all developing this type of radar. "Stealth" is done.

Matter Transmission is also being worked on by everyone. How's that going? I will admit that within 10 years, Stealth will have to be upgraded in order to continue to be effective. Right now, Stealth is about 3 steps ahead of detection. But the current stealth won't stay that way with the improvements in detections. But you keep banking on Stealth staying like it is. In the last 5 years, Stealth has made a remarkable upgrade. And the bird that has benefited from it has been the F-35 alone. The next gen Stealth will make even a bigger breakthough. Meanwhile, your detection will also become better but it's still about 3 gens behind every step of the way. The F-22 will become outdated far before the F-35 will. Why aren't you dogging the older, non ungradeable F-22? You praise the F-22. This is why the 6th gen US Fighter isn't to replace the F-35. It's to replace the F-22 while the F-35 continues to go forward.

It is because the F-22 has an actual purpose. It is more stealthy then the F-35 is or ever can be.
The F-35 is being developed since 1996. That´s long even for a military aircraft. The problems you have with its multi-purpose role will certainly be solved but do you think it´s worth the effort when em-waves detect the plane and S-200 takes it down? The plane is good for limited warfare only.

 

[Bleipriester]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

From your article.

Camped out amid equines, engineers got word from the Schönefeld tower about when the F-35s were slated to take off. Once the planes were airborne, the company says it started tracking them and collecting data, using signals from the planes’ ADS-B transponders to correlate the passive sensor readings.

I have ADS-B In and Out in my plane and can do the same thing as it shows other traffic. Do you think the F-35 would have it's transponder transmit and receive this type of data during combat ops? Ahhh, no.

Doesn´t mean they rely on it.

 

[Pilot1]

In other words, we know something is there. We don't know what it is, who it belongs to, what type of aircraft, etc.. But we know something is there. And it requires all Antennas to be tied together including all civilian antennae. Wow, some break through, there bucky. It means you are more likely to shoot down your own fighters than the enemies fighters. Not something that is useful in a war scenario.

Nice try, though. One of your best to date.

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

From your article.

Camped out amid equines, engineers got word from the Schönefeld tower about when the F-35s were slated to take off. Once the planes were airborne, the company says it started tracking them and collecting data, using signals from the planes’ ADS-B transponders to correlate the passive sensor readings.

I have ADS-B In and Out in my plane and can do the same thing as it shows other traffic. Do you think the F-35 would have it's transponder transmit and receive this type of data during combat ops? Ahhh, no.

Doesn´t mean they rely on it.

You're right it doesn't, but is also unclear what they do rely on. Passive reception of radio and TV waves? They seemed to have needed the ADS-B info to verify the passive readings. Why would they need that if their passive readings were accurate? Just verification? Possibly.

Also, they were correct in that often tv and radio signals are not present. Middle of the ocean, high altitude, rural and mountainous areas, unpopulated areas, etc.

Why would tv and radio signals bounce off a stealth aircraft, but not RADAR which are radio waves also. Radar, microwave radar, radio detection and ranging, radiolocation.

 

[Bleipriester]

Read the article, then. It is possible to ascertain what is flying there. And since the radar isn´t sending anything, you need the waves of something else. These electro-magnetic waves go around each object in a unique way, thus creating a signature.

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

From your article.

Camped out amid equines, engineers got word from the Schönefeld tower about when the F-35s were slated to take off. Once the planes were airborne, the company says it started tracking them and collecting data, using signals from the planes’ ADS-B transponders to correlate the passive sensor readings.

I have ADS-B In and Out in my plane and can do the same thing as it shows other traffic. Do you think the F-35 would have it's transponder transmit and receive this type of data during combat ops? Ahhh, no.

Doesn´t mean they rely on it.

You're right it doesn't, but is also unclear what they do rely on. Passive reception of radio and TV waves? They seemed to have needed the ADS-B info to verify the passive readings. Why would they need that if their passive readings were accurate? Just verification? Possibly.

Also, they were correct in that often tv and radio signals are not present. Middle of the ocean, high altitude, rural and mountainous areas, unpopulated areas, etc.

Why would tv and radio signals bounce off a stealth aircraft, but not RADAR which are radio waves also. Radar, microwave radar, radio detection and ranging, radiolocation.

If you read the ADS-B, you already got the plane´s position ect. So it makes really no sense for a radar to rely on it.
And yes, they are the same waves but the passiv radar doesn´t receive its reflections but measures its flow around an object. Complex math is required to extract the information.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

Can't' read it in German, sorry.

Could you or someone determine if the article is talking about picking up internal EM leakage while in EMCON or if the F-35's that were "tracked" were emitting active electro-magnetic energy such as through - say - using RADAR, using RADAR altimeters, conversing on radios, sending/receiving telemetry from link systems, etc.

Very important distinction.

Your description sounds a lot like passive detection of active signals. As an ex-EP-3E Electronic Warfare Operator I can tell you that that is nothing new. If you think they are going to enter a battlefield with active systems fully transmitting you shouldn't bank in it. More likely they will go in in EMCON and light-up their targets at the last minute. First real indication will be missles in the air or bombs on target. Then back into EMCON and go passive changing heading and altitude quickly.

Why would 2 F-35s traveling to a commercial airshow need 10 inflight refuelings over a 100 kilometer range? Wouldn't they be using radios, IFF, and RADAR for safety purposing transiting commercial airways?
.
.
.
>>>>

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Find me a English Translation and I will. I don't read Deutche. It can be a Mary Had a Little Lamb story for all I know.

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

The two F-135s had the reflectors installed so that the ground FAA type radars could track them. Plus, while your system was in operation, both F-35s stayed on the ground as static displays. At no time was your system ever tried when the F-35s were in the air being flown by Air Force Pilots without the Radar Reflectors installed.

This is from your very own cite. Your article means nothing, says nothing and does nothing. It only tries to sell an unproven German portable Radar Detection System.

Words don´t change anything. Search the webs. They are all developing this type of radar. "Stealth" is done.

Matter Transmission is also being worked on by everyone. How's that going? I will admit that within 10 years, Stealth will have to be upgraded in order to continue to be effective. Right now, Stealth is about 3 steps ahead of detection. But the current stealth won't stay that way with the improvements in detections. But you keep banking on Stealth staying like it is. In the last 5 years, Stealth has made a remarkable upgrade. And the bird that has benefited from it has been the F-35 alone. The next gen Stealth will make even a bigger breakthough. Meanwhile, your detection will also become better but it's still about 3 gens behind every step of the way. The F-22 will become outdated far before the F-35 will. Why aren't you dogging the older, non ungradeable F-22? You praise the F-22. This is why the 6th gen US Fighter isn't to replace the F-35. It's to replace the F-22 while the F-35 continues to go forward.

It is because the F-22 has an actual purpose. It is more stealthy then the F-35 is or ever can be.
The F-35 is being developed since 1996. That´s long even for a military aircraft. The problems you have with its multi-purpose role will certainly be solved but do you think it´s worth the effort when em-waves detect the plane and S-200 takes it down? The plane is good for limited warfare only.

Actually, the F-22 is LESS stealthy than the F-35 since they went to the matted Stealth coating for the F-35. And the F-35 can make 2 and 3 flights per day while the F-22 can only make one flight per 3 days since it has to be taken in to have it's stealth covering redone and cured.

The S-200 hasn't got a clue it's even there. Maybe the S-400 and 500 has a chance at close range but that's about it. Or maybe, if you know it's there, a heat seaker has a good chance since it does have a very hot rear quandrant but you have to be close. Close is within 35 clicks. And if you are doing a search you have been a target for at least 50 clicks before that.

It can be shot down. But the conditions have to be absolutely perfect for the shooter. And the Shooter is in serious jeopardy long before he gets the chance. The shootdown of the F-117 showed that. The Shotgun approach still is a valid, if not an expensive and dangerous, method of shooting down a stealth aircraft. You have a tendency to shootdown birds you don't want to shoot down in the process. Ask the Russians on that one.

Limited warfare only? Israel is making overflights over Iran almost on a daily basis with their F-35s. The Iranians are going nutz over it. And there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. Lucky for Iran, the Israelis are just doing camera and sensor runs. Israel can hit Iran anytime it wishes and there is nothing the Iranians can to stop it. The Threat of the an Aircraft is better than if you actually have to use it. And the threat of the F-35 from Israel keeps Iran at least somewhat honest when dealing with Israel. Sounds like a pretty good Fighter and Attack Bird to me.

 

[Bleipriester]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

Can't' read it in German, sorry.

Could you or someone determine if the article is talking about picking up internal EM leakage while in EMCON or if the F-35's that were "tracked" were emitting active electro-magnetic energy such as through - say - using RADAR, using RADAR altimeters, conversing on radios, sending/receiving telemetry from link systems, etc.

Very important distinction.

Your description sounds a lot like passive detection of active signals. As an ex-EP-3E Electronic Warfare Operator I can tell you that that is nothing new. If you think they are going to enter a battlefield with active systems fully transmitting you shouldn't bank in it. More likely they will go in in EMCON and light-up their targets at the last minute. First real indication will be missles in the air or bombs on target. Then back into EMCON and go passive changing heading and altitude quickly.

Why would 2 F-35s traveling to a commercial airshow need 10 inflight refuelings over a 100 kilometer range? Wouldn't they be using radios, IFF, and RADAR for safety purposing transiting commercial airways?
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>>>>

No, the passive radar can detect anything that is large enough. It can be a rock.

Second, the two F-35 flew from America to Germany, needing 10 refuelings, only to not to partake in the air show. 100 kilometer (150 actually) is just the range the Germany company claims to have tracked the planes on.

 

[Bleipriester]

Here you are:
Stealthy no more? A German radar vendor says it tracked the F-35 jet in 2018 — from a pony farm

The two F-135s had the reflectors installed so that the ground FAA type radars could track them. Plus, while your system was in operation, both F-35s stayed on the ground as static displays. At no time was your system ever tried when the F-35s were in the air being flown by Air Force Pilots without the Radar Reflectors installed.

This is from your very own cite. Your article means nothing, says nothing and does nothing. It only tries to sell an unproven German portable Radar Detection System.

Words don´t change anything. Search the webs. They are all developing this type of radar. "Stealth" is done.

Matter Transmission is also being worked on by everyone. How's that going? I will admit that within 10 years, Stealth will have to be upgraded in order to continue to be effective. Right now, Stealth is about 3 steps ahead of detection. But the current stealth won't stay that way with the improvements in detections. But you keep banking on Stealth staying like it is. In the last 5 years, Stealth has made a remarkable upgrade. And the bird that has benefited from it has been the F-35 alone. The next gen Stealth will make even a bigger breakthough. Meanwhile, your detection will also become better but it's still about 3 gens behind every step of the way. The F-22 will become outdated far before the F-35 will. Why aren't you dogging the older, non ungradeable F-22? You praise the F-22. This is why the 6th gen US Fighter isn't to replace the F-35. It's to replace the F-22 while the F-35 continues to go forward.

It is because the F-22 has an actual purpose. It is more stealthy then the F-35 is or ever can be.
The F-35 is being developed since 1996. That´s long even for a military aircraft. The problems you have with its multi-purpose role will certainly be solved but do you think it´s worth the effort when em-waves detect the plane and S-200 takes it down? The plane is good for limited warfare only.

Actually, the F-22 is LESS stealthy than the F-35 since they went to the matted Stealth coating for the F-35. And the F-35 can make 2 and 3 flights per day while the F-22 can only make one flight per 3 days since it has to be taken in to have it's stealth covering redone and cured.

The S-200 hasn't got a clue it's even there. Maybe the S-400 and 500 has a chance at close range but that's about it. Or maybe, if you know it's there, a heat seaker has a good chance since it does have a very hot rear quandrant but you have to be close. Close is within 35 clicks. And if you are doing a search you have been a target for at least 50 clicks before that.

It can be shot down. But the conditions have to be absolutely perfect for the shooter. And the Shooter is in serious jeopardy long before he gets the chance. The shootdown of the F-117 showed that. The Shotgun approach still is a valid, if not an expensive and dangerous, method of shooting down a stealth aircraft. You have a tendency to shootdown birds you don't want to shoot down in the process. Ask the Russians on that one.

Limited warfare only? Israel is making overflights over Iran almost on a daily basis with their F-35s. The Iranians are going nutz over it. And there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. Lucky for Iran, the Israelis are just doing camera and sensor runs. Israel can hit Iran anytime it wishes and there is nothing the Iranians can to stop it. The Threat of the an Aircraft is better than if you actually have to use it. And the threat of the F-35 from Israel keeps Iran at least somewhat honest when dealing with Israel. Sounds like a pretty good Fighter and Attack Bird to me.

There are strong indicators that no F-35 ever entered Iranian airspace.

Here’s Why The Claim That Two Israeli F-35 Stealth Jets Entered Iranian Airspace Does Not Make Any Sense

And the F-22 is a total stealth plane. It is not just a feature like for the F-35.

 

[Pilot1]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

Can't' read it in German, sorry.

Could you or someone determine if the article is talking about picking up internal EM leakage while in EMCON or if the F-35's that were "tracked" were emitting active electro-magnetic energy such as through - say - using RADAR, using RADAR altimeters, conversing on radios, sending/receiving telemetry from link systems, etc.

Very important distinction.

Your description sounds a lot like passive detection of active signals. As an ex-EP-3E Electronic Warfare Operator I can tell you that that is nothing new. If you think they are going to enter a battlefield with active systems fully transmitting you shouldn't bank in it. More likely they will go in in EMCON and light-up their targets at the last minute. First real indication will be missles in the air or bombs on target. Then back into EMCON and go passive changing heading and altitude quickly.

EP-3E ARIES. Lockheed Orion (old Electra turboprop) A flying buddy of mine was a Navy P-3 pilot. Then you know what they can pick up. Active signals are a TARGET.

Why would 2 F-35s traveling to a commercial airshow need 10 inflight refuelings over a 100 kilometer range? Wouldn't they be using radios, IFF, and RADAR for safety purposing transiting commercial airways?
>>>>

They would be doing all of that and ADS-B In and Out.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The F-35 is not stealthy in the German skies. German radar systems that can interpret electro-magnetic signatures followed two F-35 flying to a commercial show in Germany (10 in air refuelings) over 100 kilometers.
The system is passive, it doesn´t send anything and the pilots won´t know they are observed and can´t locate the radar. The radar requires busy antennas in the area, such as TV or radio stations. We have them all across the country.
So, when F-35 are about to attack us, we can monitor them until their bombs grow larger...

Passives Radar: Deutsche Techniker sollen US-Kampfjet enttarnt haben - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

Can't' read it in German, sorry.

Could you or someone determine if the article is talking about picking up internal EM leakage while in EMCON or if the F-35's that were "tracked" were emitting active electro-magnetic energy such as through - say - using RADAR, using RADAR altimeters, conversing on radios, sending/receiving telemetry from link systems, etc.

Very important distinction.

Your description sounds a lot like passive detection of active signals. As an ex-EP-3E Electronic Warfare Operator I can tell you that that is nothing new. If you think they are going to enter a battlefield with active systems fully transmitting you shouldn't bank in it. More likely they will go in in EMCON and light-up their targets at the last minute. First real indication will be missles in the air or bombs on target. Then back into EMCON and go passive changing heading and altitude quickly.

Why would 2 F-35s traveling to a commercial airshow need 10 inflight refuelings over a 100 kilometer range? Wouldn't they be using radios, IFF, and RADAR for safety purposing transiting commercial airways?
.
.
.
>>>>

No, the passive radar can detect anything that is large enough. It can be a rock.

Second, the two F-35 flew from America to Germany, needing 10 refuelings, only to not to partake in the air show. 100 kilometer (150 actually) is just the range the Germany company claims to have tracked the planes on.

When any Aircraft is in Ferry, their IFF is turned ON. They need to be "Seen" at all times. The ONLY time that their IFF will be turned off will be when they are entering combat area. And the F-35, in order to completely insure being seen, has radar reflectors installed so that radar can "See" them. In a combat situation, those reflectors are on installed. Your first hint that they are in your area will be when things start blowing up.