Explanation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

They differ from each other culturally and how they identify themselves.

Are all Europeans the same?

Really round 2?
Europeans live wait for it...wait for it....O THE SAME CONTiNEnT.

Arabs who live n different continents- Africa and Asia do define themselves as ARABS
through the ARAB LEAGUE, nationalities have nothing to do with that.

Arabs who live on the same continent may call themselves Arabs (just like Europeans that live on the same continent call themselves Europeans and define themselves through the EU) but they aren't all culturally the same. It's not rocket science dude.

Well excuse me for bringing this argument back,
I believe too much people here a allowed to ditch their statements just to steer the topic.

Originally I said that Ashkenazi jews were persecuted in europe for being jews, all of a sudden the come
to Israel and they're europeans....

Then follows an argument on whether arabs in Africa and Asia who call themselves ARABS
have different cultures can be called arabs even if they consider themselves so, having the Arab league (including countries from different continents). There's no parallel between them and European Union.
Geography grade 1.

The issue still remains that those jebustian lovers like to close their eyes and choose to call jews those people that suit their views whenever convenient.

Sometimes a hew is a religious person, then it's race, then it's a nation or an ethos...Sometimes Israelis are merely Polish and nothing else, next time they're the leaders of the USSR.

Tell me if arabs can gather from different continents and be respectfully recognized as "The ARAB League"
pursuing different cultural aspirations why suddenly jews who were massacred for their Jewishness
in those arab lands as well as Europe are denied the same right to be recognized as simply JEWS?

when did they become ALL Polish before or after the pogroms?

What are you talking about exactly? You've got an apples and oranges argument here that isn't making a lot of sense.

Are you saying all Arabs are the same? All Arabs are not the same?

All Jews are the same? All Jews are not the same?

All Europeans are the same? All Europeans are not the same?

What exactly are you talking about because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I've said.


Did I ever say "all arabs are the same"? I see You tend to dodge the arguments
projecting Your way o viewing everything in stigmatic manner.Th apples 'n oranges here are arabs and europeans You've tried to draw parallel between.

Read again the argument is valid for it shows exactly how You anti-Israelis
tend to murder a character of a whole people a thus justify physical murder.

When arguing on 48 they're called Polish, when reminded of arab pogroms they're called Marxist leaders,
while at times when cnvenient jews are merely a religious sect, when dealing with religious text they're separated between ashkenazi jews and sefardi jews.

So while arabs WHO ARE DIFFERENT (from various continents) have the privilege to define themselves as 'arabs",
the jewish identiy is always under question, attacked from every angle.

So tell me how jews from israel who were persecuted for being jews in arab and european lands,
all of a sudden become a different people?
Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?



That's an identity murder to justify a physical one.

Again - I fail to see your point nor do I see what it has to do with what I was talking about.

"Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?"


WTF are you talking about? You're the one that seems to be defining Jews.
 
While You guys are numbed by some legal fictions/terms a real religious war is taking place.

While some try to persecute "war criminals" in high-society manner of international courts,
muslims use Your willingness to mess up in those legal terms in arguments that take years,
while they have no respect for any other law than sharia.

The conflict can't be explained in some western terms that are easy for You to grasp.
You're bound to argue on legal terms while it has no connection to the ME lexicon and moral.

While millions try fanatically to annihilate the Jews You try to put it in a box that fits You
conveniently.

I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You.
Stop trying to hijack this thread into something about Jews. You wanna talk about Jews, go start your own thread. This thread is about Israeli's and Palestinian's. It has nothing to do with Judaism or Islam.


Hhhh and that's very logical. Talk about Israel and balestininans but don't touch Judaism or Islam.
Do You live on his planet??

The question remains the same and it's valid to both Israeli and baestinians (public opinion), while You live thousands of miles away but so eagerly push Your opinions and noses as some sort of experts we know You are:

"I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You.
"

Ok...I think I sort of see what you are saying. You saying that if folks don't live there they have no right to talk about it.

You have no real life connection to what's going on in the US. What gives you the right to talk about our President or policies? Or - is that different?
 
While You guys are numbed by some legal fictions/terms a real religious war is taking place.

While some try to persecute "war criminals" in high-society manner of international courts,
muslims use Your willingness to mess up in those legal terms in arguments that take years,
while they have no respect for any other law than sharia.

The conflict can't be explained in some western terms that are easy for You to grasp.
You're bound to argue on legal terms while it has no connection to the ME lexicon and moral.

While millions try fanatically to annihilate the Jews You try to put it in a box that fits You
conveniently.

I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You.
Stop trying to hijack this thread into something about Jews. You wanna talk about Jews, go start your own thread. This thread is about Israeli's and Palestinian's. It has nothing to do with Judaism or Islam.


Hhhh and that's very logical. Talk about Israel and balestininans but don't touch Judaism or Islam.
Do You live on his planet??

The question remains the same and it's valid to both Israeli and baestinians (public opinion), while You live thousands of miles away but so eagerly push Your opinions and noses as some sort of experts we know You are:

"I wonder how many of You have any real-life connection to what's going on.
My opinion is You're driven by Your egos while the currency of the argument is foreign to most of You.
"

Ok...I think I sort of see what you are saying. You saying that if folks don't live there they have no right to talk about it.

You have no real life connection to what's going on in the US. What gives you the right to talk about our President or policies? Or - is that different?

It is not hard to know what is happening in the US, every media carries stories on every aspect of life. In the middle east, it is a bit different. From England and US, far too many years ago, it was like starving to get any information. Now we have the internet and get reports from people by the second. Those we lived there understand what they are describing, the average american is reading greek. It is a passing care and most of the detail are like smoke things they cannot grasp. I've seen both side. American might think they are well informed but most are not. Half the high school student if they hear the names palestine will think if texas if they have any clue at all.

Most people don't understand or know about the different countries in Africa or Asia. Start taking about the pacific island and most would have never even heard the names let alone anything about the islands or the people.

There are a lot of armchair critics about the news but there is far too much ignorance as well. Sad but true. People who have lived over seas understand this. I laugh at the TV news analysts try and speak intelligently. There are more americans that understand the area after being stationed there, but far too any are basically faking it. Names, places, a few words but book education is not really understanding the people or actually see how politics works, or doesn't.

We like that more people want to know or care, but it is often superficial and short lived.

It is a bit like saying your understand the people and politics of California just because you went to Disney land or watched a movie.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think this is either sound nor valid.

It is generally accepted that all peoples have the same inherent, inalienable rights.
(COMMENT)

Is that so?
  • Inalienability does not mean that rights are absolute or can never be overridden by other considerations.
    • There is no right that can not, given the proper set of conditions, be temporarily or permanently retracted; not even the right to life. And there is no right that cannot be waived by the holder.
    • It is doubtful that all human rights are inalienable in this sense; because these rights are generally, at the domestic national level, exist because they have through legislative enactment, judicial decision, or custom become part of domestic law.
    • There are different countries with different criteria for rights. The right to free speech is different under Sharia Law than under most western laws. Just ask the folks at the Charlie Hebdo attack.
  • Inherent Rights are even more questionable.
    • Are the Inherent Rights in Iran the same as in the US?
    • Rights that are endowed by the Creator is dependent on the belief structure.
I cannot think of any right that, giver the right set of condition, cannot be forfeited.

Where do you get the impression that the Palestinians are exempt?
(COMMENT)

I did not mention Palestinian exemptions. I argued the rights in 1920 (civil and religious) were different from the rights in 1948 (Universal Right), which are different from the rights of today (inherent and unalienable). Rights vary from country to country, religion to religion, and legal system to legal system.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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It is not hard to know what is happening in the US, every media carries stories on every aspect of life. In the middle east, it is a bit different. From England and US, far too many years ago, it was like starving to get any information. Now we have the internet and get reports from people by the second. Those we lived there understand what they are describing, the average american is reading greek. It is a passing care and most of the detail are like smoke things they cannot grasp. I've seen both side. American might think they are well informed but most are not. Half the high school student if they hear the names palestine will think if texas if they have any clue at all.

Most people don't understand or know about the different countries in Africa or Asia. Start taking about the pacific island and most would have never even heard the names let alone anything about the islands or the people.

There are a lot of armchair critics about the news but there is far too much ignorance as well. Sad but true. People who have lived over seas understand this. I laugh at the TV news analysts try and speak intelligently. There are more americans that understand the area after being stationed there, but far too any are basically faking it. Names, places, a few words but book education is not really understanding the people or actually see how politics works, or doesn't.

We like that more people want to know or care, but it is often superficial and short lived.

It is a bit like saying your understand the people and politics of California just because you went to Disney land or watched a movie.
Does that mean you're not going to talk about how Israel became a nation, because you weren't there in 1948?
 
rights....as I showed earlier Arabs in Israel are a privileged community with more social and financial benefits
than the average jew.

But that still doesn't change the fact that You get in the middle of a centuries old war/argument
trying to measure it using Your native standards and telling what is "right' for them.

Imagine Syrians going to Russia telling them what to do in Kazan or how to relocate their capital
to S Petersburg...or even how to deal with Ukraine's nazis.

Your difficult to realize th importance of religion and culture in this region show how
disconnected You are from the realities there.
YOU ARE A MERELY PASSING BY PUSHING YOUR NOSE INTO MATTERS
THAT HAVE LITTLE CONNECTION TO YOU EXCEPT FOR OIL PRICES- AND YOU'RE
USED JUST FOR THAT. A DELUDED "WHITE MAN" WHO DWELLS IN SELF-IMPORTANCE
You're right about one thing, this issue has nothing to do with me. It doesn't affect my daily life in any way, shape or form. And because I don't have a stake in this, I'm the most objective, non-partisan voice you'll have on this subject. And what I see is this:

Israeli-Arabs are treated like 2nd class citizens
There are apartheid laws (Nakba Law) that discriminate against them.
Palestinian's in general, are treated like they're subhuman.
There are over 100 UN resolutions on Israeli human rights violations.
It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war.​

There is nothing delusional about that. There's nothing religious about that.

That's reality! Not some made up BS you're pushing.
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think this is either sound nor valid.

It is generally accepted that all peoples have the same inherent, inalienable rights.
(COMMENT)

Is that so?
  • Inalienability does not mean that rights are absolute or can never be overridden by other considerations.
    • There is no right that can not, given the proper set of conditions, be temporarily or permanently retracted; not even the right to life. And there is no right that cannot be waived by the holder.
    • It is doubtful that all human rights are inalienable in this sense; because these rights are generally, at the domestic national level, exist because they have through legislative enactment, judicial decision, or custom become part of domestic law.
    • There are different countries with different criteria for rights. The right to free speech is different under Sharia Law than under most western laws. Just ask the folks at the Charlie Hebdo attack.
  • Inherent Rights are even more questionable.
    • Are the Inherent Rights in Iran the same as in the US?
    • Rights that are endowed by the Creator is dependent on the belief structure.
I cannot think of any right that, giver the right set of condition, cannot be forfeited.

Where do you get the impression that the Palestinians are exempt?
(COMMENT)

I did not mention Palestinian exemptions. I argued the rights in 1920 (civil and religious) were different from the rights in 1948 (Universal Right), which are different from the rights of today (inherent and unalienable). Rights vary from country to country, religion to religion, and legal system to legal system.

Most Respectfully,
R
I cannot think of any right that, giver the right set of condition, cannot be forfeited.​

Forfeited is a government euphemism for stealing. They like to use a different word to distinguish themselves from the other crooks.

UN resolutions state that Palestinians have the inalienable right to:

Self determination without external interference.

Independence and sovereignty.

Territorial integrity.​

They say that these rights are pre existing.

At what point in time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain their rights?
 
Phoney you have to be the dumbest person on this board!

Repeating the same BS over and over when it is clear to EVERYONE that a link HAS been provided and you simply do not want to accept that you are an idiot!

Go let your racing pigeons out and have a wonderful Yorkshire day!

Then it would be the easiest thing to post that link again (10 sec work duh)
and shut him up right?

Then why do You reserve to name calling and using crowd mentality
as an argument?

Link HAS been posted...Why would I want to waste 10 sec of my life on a dumbass who can't be bothered to look for the original duh!

So You have those 10 to call names but not to show us again Your link??

So common

The link isn't Mine it's posted recently on this board....

Why SHOULD I post a link AGAIN that is available to EVERYONE on this board for those few LAZY assholes who simply choose to bleat on about NOTHING!?


Let's see...to be seen as an intellectual person....to be truthful...to make a good use of tie dealing with fact rather than opinions.

So let's sum it up again:
10 sec to show a fact vs numerous replies rejecting that opportunity in favor of name calling.

Kindergarten stuff.

Simply making a point to someone who, historically, is incapable of posting links to support any of his BS posts!
 
rights....as I showed earlier Arabs in Israel are a privileged community with more social and financial benefits
than the average jew.

But that still doesn't change the fact that You get in the middle of a centuries old war/argument
trying to measure it using Your native standards and telling what is "right' for them.

Imagine Syrians going to Russia telling them what to do in Kazan or how to relocate their capital
to S Petersburg...or even how to deal with Ukraine's nazis.

Your difficult to realize th importance of religion and culture in this region show how
disconnected You are from the realities there.
YOU ARE A MERELY PASSING BY PUSHING YOUR NOSE INTO MATTERS
THAT HAVE LITTLE CONNECTION TO YOU EXCEPT FOR OIL PRICES- AND YOU'RE
USED JUST FOR THAT. A DELUDED "WHITE MAN" WHO DWELLS IN SELF-IMPORTANCE
You're right about one thing, this issue has nothing to do with me. It doesn't affect my daily life in any way, shape or form. And because I don't have a stake in this, I'm the most objective, non-partisan voice you'll have on this subject. And what I see is this:

Israeli-Arabs are treated like 2nd class citizens
There are apartheid laws (Nakba Law) that discriminate against them.
Palestinian's in general, are treated like they're subhuman.
There are over 100 UN resolutions on Israeli human rights violations.
It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war.​

There is nothing delusional about that. There's nothing religious about that.

That's reality! Not some made up BS you're pushing.


Well let's get our facts straight- what You see is what You choose to look for.
And the info You get is from....wait for it....wait for it...THE INTERNET AND TV
How many Israeli-arabs do You know actually?

You see where I'm going?

In reality those Holocaust survivors and orthodox jews are 2nd class civilians who
have to be pushed and are used as pawns. While the arabs are well paid doctors, lawyers etc..
who pay no tax on the land, have tremendous discounts in water and electricity, get extra benefits from social-security and are allowed to build without any check-ups.
Arabic is the national language in Israel beside Hebrew. They have representatives in the parliament
who for years call for the destruction of Israel and cooperate with Hamas and Hizballa freely.
A regular jew has to struggle financially while young arabs get inheritance and new houses for nothing.

balestianians get water,electricity and money from Israeli taxpayers even during those conflicts in spite of all.
They're treated for free in Israeli hospitals. Given lands with infrastructure and working-businesses...have a full freedom of religion...while the zionist push harder on the average jew to end the month...not to mention those poor orthodox with 4-7 kids who have to be excused for getting their rightfull benefits.
Arabs don't have to serve in the IDF if they choose.
THAT'S THE REALITY

Well You don't look for truth so why should I bother to continue.

*Show me the exact violations, the treaties and the place and time of the crime. Then as a decent human being You can place those accusations. Until then it's Your OPINION.

And YES those balestinian terrorist who dance to the deaths of others,
send children with bomb-vests and hide behind civilians in guerrilla "wars" and break every ceasefire-
THEY"RE LOW LIVES and they use Your uninformed opinion in their justification to murder.
NOTHING OBJECTIVE ABOUT A HALF BAKED OPINION based on THEIR SAY-SO YOU TRY TO ENDORSE.

*In Russia they'd be "Hunted down and if needed killed in restrooms they hid in" and You'd be silent as a mouse.

Nothing religious or ethnic about that, would say the same about any american who behaves in this manner
 
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I'd like the pals to look forward and their supporters to stop going back to the colonialist/racist narrative that gets no one anywhere, fast. If they were clever they would accept current areas they have, lay down their weapons and get busy with building themselves up rather than fighting. That is where they fail and why they are the issue. No one can deal with persons who are bent on destroying them and who do not acknowledge their existence. They have never accepted living next to a peaceful Jewish state and have thereby entrered no man's land. Their supporters do not help them by encouraging this status.
 
Really round 2?
Europeans live wait for it...wait for it....O THE SAME CONTiNEnT.

Arabs who live n different continents- Africa and Asia do define themselves as ARABS
through the ARAB LEAGUE, nationalities have nothing to do with that.

Arabs who live on the same continent may call themselves Arabs (just like Europeans that live on the same continent call themselves Europeans and define themselves through the EU) but they aren't all culturally the same. It's not rocket science dude.

Well excuse me for bringing this argument back,
I believe too much people here a allowed to ditch their statements just to steer the topic.

Originally I said that Ashkenazi jews were persecuted in europe for being jews, all of a sudden the come
to Israel and they're europeans....

Then follows an argument on whether arabs in Africa and Asia who call themselves ARABS
have different cultures can be called arabs even if they consider themselves so, having the Arab league (including countries from different continents). There's no parallel between them and European Union.
Geography grade 1.

The issue still remains that those jebustian lovers like to close their eyes and choose to call jews those people that suit their views whenever convenient.

Sometimes a hew is a religious person, then it's race, then it's a nation or an ethos...Sometimes Israelis are merely Polish and nothing else, next time they're the leaders of the USSR.

Tell me if arabs can gather from different continents and be respectfully recognized as "The ARAB League"
pursuing different cultural aspirations why suddenly jews who were massacred for their Jewishness
in those arab lands as well as Europe are denied the same right to be recognized as simply JEWS?

when did they become ALL Polish before or after the pogroms?

What are you talking about exactly? You've got an apples and oranges argument here that isn't making a lot of sense.

Are you saying all Arabs are the same? All Arabs are not the same?

All Jews are the same? All Jews are not the same?

All Europeans are the same? All Europeans are not the same?

What exactly are you talking about because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I've said.


Did I ever say "all arabs are the same"? I see You tend to dodge the arguments
projecting Your way o viewing everything in stigmatic manner.Th apples 'n oranges here are arabs and europeans You've tried to draw parallel between.

Read again the argument is valid for it shows exactly how You anti-Israelis
tend to murder a character of a whole people a thus justify physical murder.

When arguing on 48 they're called Polish, when reminded of arab pogroms they're called Marxist leaders,
while at times when cnvenient jews are merely a religious sect, when dealing with religious text they're separated between ashkenazi jews and sefardi jews.

So while arabs WHO ARE DIFFERENT (from various continents) have the privilege to define themselves as 'arabs",
the jewish identiy is always under question, attacked from every angle.

So tell me how jews from israel who were persecuted for being jews in arab and european lands,
all of a sudden become a different people?
Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?



That's an identity murder to justify a physical one.

Again - I fail to see your point nor do I see what it has to do with what I was talking about.

"Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?"


WTF are you talking about? You're the one that seems to be defining Jews.

I'm a Hebrew living in Israel...and I see You clearly have a difficulty here.
 
Phoenall, toastman, Tinmore, et al,

We go through this periodically.

Palestine did not have any international borders. Just because they lived on the land, doesn't mean it was sovereign Palestinian territory.

Israel declared independence on land allotted to it by the partition plan and is now a sovereign state. Deal with it. No amount of lying is going to change it.
Palestine did not have any international borders.​

Who told you that?

Link?
Mandate of Palestine..............................
Can you quote where it says that?
(REFERENCE)

The boundaries are described as follows:-- INTRODUCTORY Position

Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows:

North.—From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East.—From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South.—From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West.—The Mediterranean Sea.​

(COMMENT)

The "administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, was based on the Sykes-Picot Treaty and the Franco-British Boundary Agreement of 1920 (AKA: Paulet–Newcombe Agreement named after the two Military Officers that lead the Survey Team). The boundary between the Mandates of Palestine and Mesopotamia were authored by LTC Newcombe British Surveyor in agreement with the French. The Mandate of Syria and the Lebanon, were authored by LTC Paulet, French Surveyor in agreement with the British. These Survey results were finally established and agreed upon on 7 March 1923; shortly before the British and French took-up Mandatory responsibilities on 29 September 1923.

There was no political subdivision called Palestine prior to the establishment of the territory under which the Mandate for Palestine was applied. What "P F Tinmore" is using and referring to are the boundaries established in the Paulet–Newcombe Agreement of 1923 for the Mandate was named after. It is also why the All Palestine Government (as an example) used the phrase: ""PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE."" It is because the Arab Palestinian had no other means to identify the territory other than in relationship to --- and by the name the Allied Powers assigned the Mandate.

Most Respectfully,
R
There are some facts that we need to remember.

The Mandates never annexed or otherwise gained possession of the mandated territories. They had no land or borders of their own.

The Mandates were temporally assigned to hold defined territories in trust on behalf of the people.

"The people" were defined by international law and reiterated by the Treaty of Lausanne. In the defined territory of Palestine that would be the Palestinians. "The People" have the inherent, inalienable right to self determination, independence and sovereignty, and territorial integrity.

The mandates had procedures, goals, and end times specified in the LoN Covenant.





Link from the LoN itself saying this

Try again using the correct terms as in the mandated powers and not the actual mandate

No Palestine before the Mandate so the people where Jews, Christians and muslims. Each granted the same rights to declare independence on their own section of land. A pity the arab muslims chose the wrong route to self determination

LINK from the LoN saying that the mandates had an end time, show the date of the end time ?
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

You are confused.

The Mandates never annexed or otherwise gained possession of the mandated territories. They had no land or borders of their own.
(COMMENT)

The territorial boundaries applicable to the four major Mandates in the region were documented by international agreements as stipulated in Post #436 supra. The Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920 is still the pillar document that encompasses the boundaries as revisited in the Special Report of 1932.

The Mandates were temporally assigned to hold defined territories in trust on behalf of the people.
(COMMENT)

The purpose, goals and limitation of each mandate is spelled-out in each of the respective mandates.

"The various Mandates or "charters" adopted by the Council comprise a collection of provisions defining the manner in which the principles laid down by the Covenant are to be applied. Under the terms of the latter, the degree of authority or control to be exercised by the Mandatory varies according to the character of the territory."
SOURCE: PART II. THE PRINCIPLES OF THE MANDATORY REGIME --- Section 2 Mandates and Charters --- Series of League of Nations Publications VI.A. MANDATES 1945. VI.A. 1

In addition to the regular boilerplate for Class "A" Mandates and Charters, the Mandate for Palestine was different in that:

"The Palestine Mandate is of a very special character. While it follows the main lines laid down by the Covenant for "A" Mandates, it also contains a number of provisions designed to apply the policy defined by the "Balfour Declaration" of November 2nd, 1917. By this declaration, the British Government had announced its intention to encourage the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. The Mandate reproduces the Balfour Declaration almost in full in its preamble and states that "recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country".
SOURCE: PART II. THE PRINCIPLES OF THE MANDATORY REGIME --- Section 2 Mandates and Charters --- Series of League of Nations Publications VI.A. MANDATES 1945. VI.A. 1

"The people" were defined by international law and reiterated by the Treaty of Lausanne. In the defined territory of Palestine that would be the Palestinians. "The People" have the inherent, inalienable right to self determination, independence and sovereignty, and territorial integrity.

The mandates had procedures, goals, and end times specified in the LoN Covenant.
(COMMENT)

Nowhere in the five Parts to the Treaty of Lausanne is the "Right of Self-Determination" mentioned. Nowhere in the five Parts to the Treaty of Lausanne is Palestine mentioned. Nowhere in the five Parts to the Treaty of Lausanne are inherent or inalienable rights discussed at all.
The Orders in Council, the Citizenship Order, and the Mandate are the principle documenters that cover the administration of the Mandates; and in no way infringe on the Arab Palestinians civil or religious rights (which are the only two rights stipulated in these documents). While the Arab Palestinian may have been subject to --- it should be noted that the Arab Palestinian was never a party (signatory) to any of the Treaties, Covenants, Mandates, or Council Orders. And, the Arab Palestinian declined several times to become involved and have a voice in the administration of the territory to which the Mandate applied:

22. Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.
SOURCE: Political History of Palestine under British Administration

It was very obvious that the Arab Palestinian did not want to participate in the governance process, or a deliberative dialog and decision making process which listens all voices and diverse perspectives (Arab and Jewish) to enact meaningful change. Nor did they want to be involved with Article 22 administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.

The 1945 UN Charter [Article I (2)] stipulates that a purpose of the UN Organization is to develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace; but does not define self-determination as a inherent and unalienable right. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (A/RES/3/217 A), 10 December 1948, adopted by the UN General Assembly, outlines the common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society. The right to self determination, independence and sovereignty, and territorial integrity are part of the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States [A/RES/25/2625 (XXV)] of 1970. These rights are enunciated well after the creation of Mandates and the era which ended the Mandates; in fact it comes after the 1967 War.

In terms of the duration of a mandate, Article 22 said: "Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone." While the mandate has terminated (in a sense) the 1988 State of Palestine has yet to demonstrate that it can "stand alone." Palestine is a parasitic country that survives on donor nation contributions. It has yet to change governments in a peaceful manner in accordance with their basic law.

Most Respectfully,
R
It is generally accepted that all peoples have the same inherent, inalienable rights.

Where do you get the impression that the Palestinians are exempt?





After which date was it "generally accepted" that all peoples have the same inherent inalienable rights.
Provide a link to this becoming International law and not a recommendation ?
 
rights....as I showed earlier Arabs in Israel are a privileged community with more social and financial benefits
than the average jew.

But that still doesn't change the fact that You get in the middle of a centuries old war/argument
trying to measure it using Your native standards and telling what is "right' for them.

Imagine Syrians going to Russia telling them what to do in Kazan or how to relocate their capital
to S Petersburg...or even how to deal with Ukraine's nazis.

Your difficult to realize th importance of religion and culture in this region show how
disconnected You are from the realities there.
YOU ARE A MERELY PASSING BY PUSHING YOUR NOSE INTO MATTERS
THAT HAVE LITTLE CONNECTION TO YOU EXCEPT FOR OIL PRICES- AND YOU'RE
USED JUST FOR THAT. A DELUDED "WHITE MAN" WHO DWELLS IN SELF-IMPORTANCE
You're right about one thing, this issue has nothing to do with me. It doesn't affect my daily life in any way, shape or form. And because I don't have a stake in this, I'm the most objective, non-partisan voice you'll have on this subject. And what I see is this:

Israeli-Arabs are treated like 2nd class citizens
There are apartheid laws (Nakba Law) that discriminate against them.
Palestinian's in general, are treated like they're subhuman.
There are over 100 UN resolutions on Israeli human rights violations.
It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war.​

There is nothing delusional about that. There's nothing religious about that.

That's reality! Not some made up BS you're pushing.






LINK

LINK

LINK

Means nothing when the judges are the worst offenders

Tell that to the muslims
 
P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think this is either sound nor valid.

It is generally accepted that all peoples have the same inherent, inalienable rights.
(COMMENT)

Is that so?
  • Inalienability does not mean that rights are absolute or can never be overridden by other considerations.
    • There is no right that can not, given the proper set of conditions, be temporarily or permanently retracted; not even the right to life. And there is no right that cannot be waived by the holder.
    • It is doubtful that all human rights are inalienable in this sense; because these rights are generally, at the domestic national level, exist because they have through legislative enactment, judicial decision, or custom become part of domestic law.
    • There are different countries with different criteria for rights. The right to free speech is different under Sharia Law than under most western laws. Just ask the folks at the Charlie Hebdo attack.
  • Inherent Rights are even more questionable.
    • Are the Inherent Rights in Iran the same as in the US?
    • Rights that are endowed by the Creator is dependent on the belief structure.
I cannot think of any right that, giver the right set of condition, cannot be forfeited.

Where do you get the impression that the Palestinians are exempt?
(COMMENT)

I did not mention Palestinian exemptions. I argued the rights in 1920 (civil and religious) were different from the rights in 1948 (Universal Right), which are different from the rights of today (inherent and unalienable). Rights vary from country to country, religion to religion, and legal system to legal system.

Most Respectfully,
R
I cannot think of any right that, giver the right set of condition, cannot be forfeited.​

Forfeited is a government euphemism for stealing. They like to use a different word to distinguish themselves from the other crooks.

UN resolutions state that Palestinians have the inalienable right to:

Self determination without external interference.

Independence and sovereignty.

Territorial integrity.​

They say that these rights are pre existing.

At what point in time and under what circumstances did the Palestinians obtain their rights?





And they have all these and no one is stopping them from exercising these rights. Apart from their own greed and unwillingness to work at being a viable nation.

Are they recognised as a nation by the UN YES

Are they showing self determination by attacking Israel YES

Have they declared independence YES

Have they declared their territory and negotiated mutual borders NO


1988 when they declared independence, and then completely stopped the process when they realised they would lose all the aid and blood money they get. First to go would be UNWRA and that would result in gaza going bust
 
Arabs who live on the same continent may call themselves Arabs (just like Europeans that live on the same continent call themselves Europeans and define themselves through the EU) but they aren't all culturally the same. It's not rocket science dude.

Well excuse me for bringing this argument back,
I believe too much people here a allowed to ditch their statements just to steer the topic.

Originally I said that Ashkenazi jews were persecuted in europe for being jews, all of a sudden the come
to Israel and they're europeans....

Then follows an argument on whether arabs in Africa and Asia who call themselves ARABS
have different cultures can be called arabs even if they consider themselves so, having the Arab league (including countries from different continents). There's no parallel between them and European Union.
Geography grade 1.

The issue still remains that those jebustian lovers like to close their eyes and choose to call jews those people that suit their views whenever convenient.

Sometimes a hew is a religious person, then it's race, then it's a nation or an ethos...Sometimes Israelis are merely Polish and nothing else, next time they're the leaders of the USSR.

Tell me if arabs can gather from different continents and be respectfully recognized as "The ARAB League"
pursuing different cultural aspirations why suddenly jews who were massacred for their Jewishness
in those arab lands as well as Europe are denied the same right to be recognized as simply JEWS?

when did they become ALL Polish before or after the pogroms?

What are you talking about exactly? You've got an apples and oranges argument here that isn't making a lot of sense.

Are you saying all Arabs are the same? All Arabs are not the same?

All Jews are the same? All Jews are not the same?

All Europeans are the same? All Europeans are not the same?

What exactly are you talking about because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I've said.


Did I ever say "all arabs are the same"? I see You tend to dodge the arguments
projecting Your way o viewing everything in stigmatic manner.Th apples 'n oranges here are arabs and europeans You've tried to draw parallel between.

Read again the argument is valid for it shows exactly how You anti-Israelis
tend to murder a character of a whole people a thus justify physical murder.

When arguing on 48 they're called Polish, when reminded of arab pogroms they're called Marxist leaders,
while at times when cnvenient jews are merely a religious sect, when dealing with religious text they're separated between ashkenazi jews and sefardi jews.

So while arabs WHO ARE DIFFERENT (from various continents) have the privilege to define themselves as 'arabs",
the jewish identiy is always under question, attacked from every angle.

So tell me how jews from israel who were persecuted for being jews in arab and european lands,
all of a sudden become a different people?
Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?



That's an identity murder to justify a physical one.

Again - I fail to see your point nor do I see what it has to do with what I was talking about.

"Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?"


WTF are you talking about? You're the one that seems to be defining Jews.

I'm a Hebrew living in Israel...and I see You clearly have a difficulty here.

No, I am having no difficulty. You don't seem to be able to express yourself and I am not alone in struggling to make sense of your attacks.
 
Well excuse me for bringing this argument back,
I believe too much people here a allowed to ditch their statements just to steer the topic.

Originally I said that Ashkenazi jews were persecuted in europe for being jews, all of a sudden the come
to Israel and they're europeans....

Then follows an argument on whether arabs in Africa and Asia who call themselves ARABS
have different cultures can be called arabs even if they consider themselves so, having the Arab league (including countries from different continents). There's no parallel between them and European Union.
Geography grade 1.

The issue still remains that those jebustian lovers like to close their eyes and choose to call jews those people that suit their views whenever convenient.

Sometimes a hew is a religious person, then it's race, then it's a nation or an ethos...Sometimes Israelis are merely Polish and nothing else, next time they're the leaders of the USSR.

Tell me if arabs can gather from different continents and be respectfully recognized as "The ARAB League"
pursuing different cultural aspirations why suddenly jews who were massacred for their Jewishness
in those arab lands as well as Europe are denied the same right to be recognized as simply JEWS?

when did they become ALL Polish before or after the pogroms?

What are you talking about exactly? You've got an apples and oranges argument here that isn't making a lot of sense.

Are you saying all Arabs are the same? All Arabs are not the same?

All Jews are the same? All Jews are not the same?

All Europeans are the same? All Europeans are not the same?

What exactly are you talking about because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I've said.


Did I ever say "all arabs are the same"? I see You tend to dodge the arguments
projecting Your way o viewing everything in stigmatic manner.Th apples 'n oranges here are arabs and europeans You've tried to draw parallel between.

Read again the argument is valid for it shows exactly how You anti-Israelis
tend to murder a character of a whole people a thus justify physical murder.

When arguing on 48 they're called Polish, when reminded of arab pogroms they're called Marxist leaders,
while at times when cnvenient jews are merely a religious sect, when dealing with religious text they're separated between ashkenazi jews and sefardi jews.

So while arabs WHO ARE DIFFERENT (from various continents) have the privilege to define themselves as 'arabs",
the jewish identiy is always under question, attacked from every angle.

So tell me how jews from israel who were persecuted for being jews in arab and european lands,
all of a sudden become a different people?
Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?



That's an identity murder to justify a physical one.

Again - I fail to see your point nor do I see what it has to do with what I was talking about.

"Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?"


WTF are you talking about? You're the one that seems to be defining Jews.

I'm a Hebrew living in Israel...and I see You clearly have a difficulty here.

No, I am having no difficulty. You don't seem to be able to express yourself and I am not alone in struggling to make sense of your attacks.

rylah lives in Israel and English is not his first language, but I have been able to follow him. What I think he is saying is this: During the centuries that the Jews suffered persecution in Christian Europe, they were discriminated against because they were Jews. In other words, they were considered Jews and not Europeans. Then, when Jews create the State of Israel as a safe haven, people say that they have no right to be there since they are Europeans, first and foremost. They are even called "fake Jews". So Jews are condemned either for having a homeland, or for not having one.
 
What are you talking about exactly? You've got an apples and oranges argument here that isn't making a lot of sense.

Are you saying all Arabs are the same? All Arabs are not the same?

All Jews are the same? All Jews are not the same?

All Europeans are the same? All Europeans are not the same?

What exactly are you talking about because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I've said.


Did I ever say "all arabs are the same"? I see You tend to dodge the arguments
projecting Your way o viewing everything in stigmatic manner.Th apples 'n oranges here are arabs and europeans You've tried to draw parallel between.

Read again the argument is valid for it shows exactly how You anti-Israelis
tend to murder a character of a whole people a thus justify physical murder.

When arguing on 48 they're called Polish, when reminded of arab pogroms they're called Marxist leaders,
while at times when cnvenient jews are merely a religious sect, when dealing with religious text they're separated between ashkenazi jews and sefardi jews.

So while arabs WHO ARE DIFFERENT (from various continents) have the privilege to define themselves as 'arabs",
the jewish identiy is always under question, attacked from every angle.

So tell me how jews from israel who were persecuted for being jews in arab and european lands,
all of a sudden become a different people?
Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?



That's an identity murder to justify a physical one.

Again - I fail to see your point nor do I see what it has to do with what I was talking about.

"Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?"


WTF are you talking about? You're the one that seems to be defining Jews.

I'm a Hebrew living in Israel...and I see You clearly have a difficulty here.

No, I am having no difficulty. You don't seem to be able to express yourself and I am not alone in struggling to make sense of your attacks.

rylah lives in Israel and English is not his first language, but I have been able to follow him. What I think he is saying is this: During the centuries that the Jews suffered persecution in Christian Europe, they were discriminated against because they were Jews. In other words, they were considered Jews and not Europeans. Then, when Jews create the State of Israel as a safe haven, people say that they have no right to be there since they are Europeans, first and foremost. They are even called "fake Jews". So Jews are condemned either for having a homeland, or for not having one.

I've never said that and I still don't understand what that has to do with the conversation we were having :dunno:
 
What are you talking about exactly? You've got an apples and oranges argument here that isn't making a lot of sense.

Are you saying all Arabs are the same? All Arabs are not the same?

All Jews are the same? All Jews are not the same?

All Europeans are the same? All Europeans are not the same?

What exactly are you talking about because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I've said.


Did I ever say "all arabs are the same"? I see You tend to dodge the arguments
projecting Your way o viewing everything in stigmatic manner.Th apples 'n oranges here are arabs and europeans You've tried to draw parallel between.

Read again the argument is valid for it shows exactly how You anti-Israelis
tend to murder a character of a whole people a thus justify physical murder.

When arguing on 48 they're called Polish, when reminded of arab pogroms they're called Marxist leaders,
while at times when cnvenient jews are merely a religious sect, when dealing with religious text they're separated between ashkenazi jews and sefardi jews.

So while arabs WHO ARE DIFFERENT (from various continents) have the privilege to define themselves as 'arabs",
the jewish identiy is always under question, attacked from every angle.

So tell me how jews from israel who were persecuted for being jews in arab and european lands,
all of a sudden become a different people?
Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?



That's an identity murder to justify a physical one.

Again - I fail to see your point nor do I see what it has to do with what I was talking about.

"Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?"


WTF are you talking about? You're the one that seems to be defining Jews.

I'm a Hebrew living in Israel...and I see You clearly have a difficulty here.

No, I am having no difficulty. You don't seem to be able to express yourself and I am not alone in struggling to make sense of your attacks.

rylah lives in Israel and English is not his first language, but I have been able to follow him. What I think he is saying is this: During the centuries that the Jews suffered persecution in Christian Europe, they were discriminated against because they were Jews. In other words, they were considered Jews and not Europeans. Then, when Jews create the State of Israel as a safe haven, people say that they have no right to be there since they are Europeans, first and foremost. They are even called "fake Jews". So Jews are condemned either for having a homeland, or for not having one.

It doesn't matter if the Christian Europeans considered the Jews of Europe Europeans or not. It was the Middle Easter non-European Christian and Muslim people that considered people that came from Europe, dressed like Europeans, looked like Europeans and spoke European languages that naturally, considered the European Jews Europeans.
 
Did I ever say "all arabs are the same"? I see You tend to dodge the arguments
projecting Your way o viewing everything in stigmatic manner.Th apples 'n oranges here are arabs and europeans You've tried to draw parallel between.

Read again the argument is valid for it shows exactly how You anti-Israelis
tend to murder a character of a whole people a thus justify physical murder.

When arguing on 48 they're called Polish, when reminded of arab pogroms they're called Marxist leaders,
while at times when cnvenient jews are merely a religious sect, when dealing with religious text they're separated between ashkenazi jews and sefardi jews.

So while arabs WHO ARE DIFFERENT (from various continents) have the privilege to define themselves as 'arabs",
the jewish identiy is always under question, attacked from every angle.

So tell me how jews from israel who were persecuted for being jews in arab and european lands,
all of a sudden become a different people?
Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?



That's an identity murder to justify a physical one.

Again - I fail to see your point nor do I see what it has to do with what I was talking about.

"Why do You define the Jews/Hebrews while undermining THEIR own definition while
staying out of the issues of other people identity?"


WTF are you talking about? You're the one that seems to be defining Jews.

I'm a Hebrew living in Israel...and I see You clearly have a difficulty here.

No, I am having no difficulty. You don't seem to be able to express yourself and I am not alone in struggling to make sense of your attacks.

rylah lives in Israel and English is not his first language, but I have been able to follow him. What I think he is saying is this: During the centuries that the Jews suffered persecution in Christian Europe, they were discriminated against because they were Jews. In other words, they were considered Jews and not Europeans. Then, when Jews create the State of Israel as a safe haven, people say that they have no right to be there since they are Europeans, first and foremost. They are even called "fake Jews". So Jews are condemned either for having a homeland, or for not having one.

It doesn't matter if the Christian Europeans considered the Jews of Europe Europeans or not. It was the Middle Easter non-European Christian and Muslim people that considered people that came from Europe, dressed like Europeans, looked like Europeans and spoke European languages that naturally, considered the European Jews Europeans.




Yet you have very clearly stated that the European Jews should be kicked out of Palestine . Not that longh ago your father and grandfather where telling the Jews of Europe to get back to Palestine where they belong
 
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