Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[kwc57]

The problem is not with those amassing great wealth.

The problem comes when those with great wealth use that wealth to influence elected officials to get things to go their way effectively rendering your and my vote virtually meaningless.

Well, then, your problem isn't with the people who assess the existing system and then work it to benefit themselves. Your problem is with the system itself, aka the elected officials and the government they work in. You think protesters like the OWS fools aren't working the exact same system from a different angle, ie. the crowd of noisy wheels get the grease?

Reminds me of what Herman Cain had to say about the OWS crowd. You guys are in the wrong location for your protest, you need to be over at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

 

[kwc57]

Beautifully done, Mr. C.

And what law is preventing their freedom to do whatever they have to do to make such an amount??

Are they not free to work more, train, learn, choose a company, put forth effort, etc??

Or, like so many more of your ilk, do you think it should be just given to them no matter what they do??

LOL!

Yeah, just keep digging that hole deeper, Lad.

That wasn't even a decent bob and weave pee wee. Answer the question.

 

[JRK]

Such a position ignores one of the points of the discussion though. The only reason to consider raising the min wage is if you buy into the premise that EVERYONE should make enough to get buy on. That premise fails for a variety of reasons. 1) Not everyone needs to be paid enough to live on. 2) It presumes that people are compensated based on what they need, not based on their value.

I work 100s of people yearly. If a person gives 100% to the my bottom line, his/her value should be rewarded with that wage. If not he/she will be shown the door

Which is your prerogative to do. It doesn't mean we need a law requiring that everyone else do it. Again one of the main reasons not to mandate a living wage is because a lot of people simply don't need it. There is a decent chunk of the workforce made up of teenagers who's parents are providing for their needs, people who take an extra part time job for a little extra money, or spouses supplmenting household incomes. You start making all those companies that pay lower than what a person can live on a living wage and the unemployment rate among that class of jobs goes up. And it goes up needlessly because the people working those jobs didn't really need what you were seeking to provide in the first place.

My idea would only go to those who are 18 and older, no longer in hi school and cannot be carried on any-one else s tax return

 

[JRK]

Another item to take into your thought with my resolve. It will have some negative effect on the dollar

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Live Video - C-SPAN2 | C-SPAN​

 

[Bern80]

I work 100s of people yearly. If a person gives 100% to the my bottom line, his/her value should be rewarded with that wage. If not he/she will be shown the door

Which is your prerogative to do. It doesn't mean we need a law requiring that everyone else do it. Again one of the main reasons not to mandate a living wage is because a lot of people simply don't need it. There is a decent chunk of the workforce made up of teenagers who's parents are providing for their needs, people who take an extra part time job for a little extra money, or spouses supplmenting household incomes. You start making all those companies that pay lower than what a person can live on a living wage and the unemployment rate among that class of jobs goes up. And it goes up needlessly because the people working those jobs didn't really need what you were seeking to provide in the first place.

My idea would only go to those who are 18 and older, no longer in hi school and cannot be carried on any-one else s tax return

That presents another problem. You're then not paying a person based on their value. Under your above condition, two people could be working the same job, same seniority, but one should be paid more according to you because that person is single while the other could still be paid market value because they are a teenager or require supplemental income. How is that fair to the employees or the employer?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The living wage is a wage I should paid, for doing as little as possible, that allows me to maintain the same lifestyle as somebody who works his ass of and earns a very nice living.

 

[JRK]

Which is your prerogative to do. It doesn't mean we need a law requiring that everyone else do it. Again one of the main reasons not to mandate a living wage is because a lot of people simply don't need it. There is a decent chunk of the workforce made up of teenagers who's parents are providing for their needs, people who take an extra part time job for a little extra money, or spouses supplmenting household incomes. You start making all those companies that pay lower than what a person can live on a living wage and the unemployment rate among that class of jobs goes up. And it goes up needlessly because the people working those jobs didn't really need what you were seeking to provide in the first place.

My idea would only go to those who are 18 and older, no longer in hi school and cannot be carried on any-one else s tax return

That presents another problem. You're then not paying a person based on their value. Under your above condition, two people could be working the same job, same seniority, but one should be paid more according to you because that person is single while the other could still be paid market value because they are a teenager or require supplemental income. How is that fair to the employees or the employer?

Not sure I follow your logic. there are laws in place now that prevents a minor to work the same as an adult now I believe

 

[Bern80]

My idea would only go to those who are 18 and older, no longer in hi school and cannot be carried on any-one else s tax return

That presents another problem. You're then not paying a person based on their value. Under your above condition, two people could be working the same job, same seniority, but one should be paid more according to you because that person is single while the other could still be paid market value because they are a teenager or require supplemental income. How is that fair to the employees or the employer?

Not sure I follow your logic. there are laws in place now that prevents a minor to work the same as an adult now I believe

For example a minor and an adult could both be working at a McDonalds. The hours they work are irrelevent. Maybe the teen is only allowed to work 24 hours a week, and the adult wants to work 40. What you're saying is that the adult living on their own should be paid what they need to live on while it is okay to pay the teen less for the same job.

 

[JRK]

That presents another problem. You're then not paying a person based on their value. Under your above condition, two people could be working the same job, same seniority, but one should be paid more according to you because that person is single while the other could still be paid market value because they are a teenager or require supplemental income. How is that fair to the employees or the employer?

Not sure I follow your logic. there are laws in place now that prevents a minor to work the same as an adult now I believe

For example a minor and an adult could both be working at a McDonalds. The hours they work are irrelevent. Maybe the teen is only allowed to work 24 hours a week, and the adult wants to work 40. What you're saying is that the adult living on their own should be paid what they need to live on while it is okay to pay the teen less for the same job.

I do not hire minors in the industry I work in, I think it is all ready set up that way so the minor can get a job bagging groceries, etc...

 

[Foxfyre]

I have hired teenagers for a few hours a week just to give them a chance to get some experience, references, etc. to qualify for a better job. I could have done without those employees, and I couldn't afford to do a lot of that, but to help out I was willing to do what I could.

Having said, that, doing that was my option and prerogative and had the law required me to pay them more than I did, they would not have been hired. Certainly had I been required to pay a 'living wage', whatever that is, not only would the teens have not been hired, but I would have been forced to lay off almost all of my part time people and maybe some of the full time staff.

Those who expect employers to be social benefit agencies are going to be disappointed 99% of the time. Employers can't often afford to hire somebody just to help them out. Employers mostly hire people because they need somebody to do the work in order to create a profit for the business and/or expand the business in order to increase the profit.

Nor do most people go to work for somebody to 'help out' a business. Most of us go to work to earn money and we sell our labor, skills, talent, ability, and/or know how to an employer for an agreed price.

Employees who make themselves increasingly valuable to the employer will almost always merit more pay and get better raises and bonuses than those who just show up, put in their time doing no more than they agreed to do, and then go home.

You want to be paid what you think you're worth?
Stay in school and actually educate yourself. Good grades don't always help but they never hurt.
Stay off the drugs and booze and stay away from illegal activities.
Get a McJob or do something for wages, however crappy, develop a work ethic, acquire some marketable skills, and build some solid references. Don't be too proud to take the job that is available as an employed person will always be seen as more desirable/employable than an unemployed person.
Be willing to start at the bottom but take every chance to demonstrate that you are ready for and deserve promotion.
Be willing to go where the work is instead of expecting it to come to you.

Do that and you are far less likely to be on a message board complaining about low wages or greedy, uncaring employers.

 

[Bern80]

Not sure I follow your logic. there are laws in place now that prevents a minor to work the same as an adult now I believe

For example a minor and an adult could both be working at a McDonalds. The hours they work are irrelevent. Maybe the teen is only allowed to work 24 hours a week, and the adult wants to work 40. What you're saying is that the adult living on their own should be paid what they need to live on while it is okay to pay the teen less for the same job.

I do not hire minors in the industry I work in, I think it is all ready set up that way so the minor can get a job bagging groceries, etc...

We aren't talking about just you and who you hire. We are talking about policy that would effect the nation. Stop dodging the issue. Is the previoulsy mentioned example fair in your eyes or not?

 

[Foxfyre]

For example a minor and an adult could both be working at a McDonalds. The hours they work are irrelevent. Maybe the teen is only allowed to work 24 hours a week, and the adult wants to work 40. What you're saying is that the adult living on their own should be paid what they need to live on while it is okay to pay the teen less for the same job.

I do not hire minors in the industry I work in, I think it is all ready set up that way so the minor can get a job bagging groceries, etc...

We aren't talking about just you and who you hire. We are talking about policy that would effect the nation. Stop dodging the issue. Is the previoulsy mentioned example fair in your eyes or not?

The only 'fair' wage is one that allows the employer to make a desired profit. It should be based on the value of the work performed to the employer. Any other system becomes a socialist system unrelated to economics and, as has been proved countless times, will produce far more unintended negative consequences than benefit to society.

 

[JRK]

I do not hire minors in the industry I work in, I think it is all ready set up that way so the minor can get a job bagging groceries, etc...

We aren't talking about just you and who you hire. We are talking about policy that would effect the nation. Stop dodging the issue. Is the previoulsy mentioned example fair in your eyes or not?

The only 'fair' wage is one that allows the employer to make a desired profit. It should be based on the value of the work performed to the employer. Any other system becomes a socialist system unrelated to economics and, as has been proved countless times, will produce far more unintended negative consequences than benefit to society.

Yes it is fair to pay a SR in hi school a lower wage than a 19 year old saying clean, paying his bills and living by him/herself

The profit item is why I use the example of how one bids profit

If my built up, all in composite rate is 40.00 an hour and it takes 0.25 hours to serve a burger from cradle to death then I better be getting at least 11.00 for that burger to make 10% profit.
This is why I made comment the bad thing to have a 12.50 per hour minimum wage would be the dollar for us make 50-75,000 a year will lose value
Not much I would think, but some

 

[bripat9643]

Yes it is fair to pay a SR in hi school a lower wage than a 19 year old saying clean, paying his bills and living by him/herself

The profit item is why I use the example of how one bids profit

If my built up, all in composite rate is 40.00 an hour and it takes 0.25 hours to serve a burger from cradle to death then I better be getting at least 11.00 for that burger to make 10% profit.
This is why I made comment the bad thing to have a 12.50 per hour minimum wage would be the dollar for us make 50-75,000 a year will lose value
Not much I would think, but some

How does any of that bullshit make it fair to pay one person less than another for doing the exact same job?

 

[JRK]

Yes it is fair to pay a SR in hi school a lower wage than a 19 year old saying clean, paying his bills and living by him/herself

The profit item is why I use the example of how one bids profit

If my built up, all in composite rate is 40.00 an hour and it takes 0.25 hours to serve a burger from cradle to death then I better be getting at least 11.00 for that burger to make 10% profit.
This is why I made comment the bad thing to have a 12.50 per hour minimum wage would be the dollar for us make 50-75,000 a year will lose value
Not much I would think, but some

How does any of that bullshit make it fair to pay one person less than another for doing the exact same job?

Who said anything about paying any-one more for doing the same job?
I damn sure did not.
**** talking to you people is not about the issues, its a constant trap. Can you show where I have ever stated that 2 people doing the same job should get different pay?
you IDIOT

 

[bripat9643]

Who said anything about paying any-one more for doing the same job?
I damn sure did not.
**** talking to you people is not about the issues, its a constant trap. Can you show where I have ever stated that 2 people doing the same job should get different pay?
you IDIOT

Here ya go:

"Yes it is fair to pay a SR in hi school a lower wage than a 19 year old saying clean, paying his bills and living by him/herself"

 

[JRK]

This thread was about working people and what they get paid as a living wage, at no time was this intended to be about child labor laws.
If any of you think they should make the same as a an adult, fine. To be honest I never gave it any thought as there are already laws in place that minimize the times minors work as well as the hours they work. Any-way you feel like they should the same as a person who is an adult and longer goes to school that's fine with me
I do not know of any LPNs in hi school, nor do I know any-one who works in a grocery store in hi. school who also does other things than entry level work

 

[JRK]

Who said anything about paying any-one more for doing the same job?
I damn sure did not.
**** talking to you people is not about the issues, its a constant trap. Can you show where I have ever stated that 2 people doing the same job should get different pay?
you IDIOT

Here ya go:

"Yes it is fair to pay a SR in hi school a lower wage than a 19 year old saying clean, paying his bills and living by him/herself"

Hey dick head, that's not the same thing, you went straight to the top of my shit list bud. This was an adult conversation about what we pay adults trying to make a living out here and you ******* race baited me and you know it
Never respond to one of my threads again scum bag

 

[percysunshine]

I think everyone in hi school should be in(dentured) slaves.