Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[grunt11b]

The libs dont understand if they raise the min wage or have 15.00 an hour everything else raises and they will still be in the same position and just making more but also paying more for the goods.

who requessted 15 an hour?

$15 an hour isn't shit, OWS have been demanding $20 an hour minimum wage.

 

[grunt11b]

Henery Ford figured out that if you pay enployeess enough to buy your product then you do very well.

The right wants only the 1% to be able to buy products.

Its a really stupid plan

Did Henry Ford give his cars away for free? I think not, which is what those bums at OWS are expecting right now.

 

[Bern80]

Not so long ago, I was privileged to hear the story of a Vietnamese immigrant who came into the USA with little more than a sponsor and a job waiting for him. Shortly after his arrival, the sponsor was killed in an accident and the job disappeared with him. The only work the immigrant could find was picking vegetables on a local farm so that is what he did. It was at near starvation wages but he didn't care.

However, the foreman noticed that he took great care to pick only the ripe vegetables and was careful in how he handled them so as not to bruise them. He arrived early for work and stayed late and was highly productive. Before long he was promoted to foreman, a position at which he also excelled and eventually manager. By living frugally and saving every dime he could, he was able to acquire enough venture capital to start his own business. The business is in its third year and is thriving. He recently married and is expecting his first child.

I found myself wondering how many Americans would be willing to do what he did to achieve the American dream? But he is living proof that it is still possible to achieve it when you expect to do it all on merit and not be given anything.

I bolded the part where he depended on the generosity and wisdom of his employer.

I'm skeptical that today the majority of people in such positions wouldn't be simply taken advantage of.

Be skeptical all you want. It just baffles me how uneducated some of you are about mangement and business operations. Successful companies that stand the test of time, are successful for a reason. They treat their customers well and they treat they're employees well. That's what is so confusing about all the corporate bashing. All the things you accuse 'evil' corporations of doing are things that make no sense to do from a business perspective. Treat employees like crap? Anyone educated in management know happy employees are more prdoctive then upset employees. Try to screw their customers? It makes no sense to bite the hand that feeds you. that isn't just theory. That's the case in every job I've ever worked. In fact this week every single employee in our company, which is thousands of people, got a gift check out of blue for meeting and exceeding are yearly budgetary goals. Most good companies do reward the hard work of their employees.

 

[Foxfyre]

What happens when employers build Widgets and don't pay a wage their employees can support their families on?

The taxpayer steps in and subsidizes food, housing and healthcare for that family. Employer gets to profit off of cheap widgets.....taxpayers make up the difference

Maybe the employee should not except a wage they cannot live on to begin with, then the employer would either have to go out of business or pay a wage that is livable on. Maybe the lazy downtrodden should look at furthering their education so that they can get a job that pays a wage they can live on and keep the government out of the business of being big brother. You know, that whole responsibility for yourself thing that the rest of us participate in.

What you are suggesting is allowing the free market to work. If we understand that labor is as much of an input or commodity as raw materials, hammers, nails, shingles, or canned goods on the shelf, we understand that labor has a specific value and cost to the employer that shows up in his bottom line on his P & L every day, week, month, or year.

If those shingles or canned goods cost more than what the employer can sell them for, he will have a loss. If labor produces less than the cost of that labor, he will have a loss. Nobody can post very many losses in a row and remain in business. If he goes out of business he won't be buying shingles or canned goods or hiring people at all.

But, the employer also has to pay the prevailing rate for those shingles or canned goods or labor. When labor is plentiful, he can pick and choose from the better end and pay less which is important because so many people out of work also impacts his bottom line as he won't sell as much and generally has to charge less for what he sells.

When labor is in short supply, he sometimes has to take what he can get and will have to pay more. That is why McDonalds pays entry level workers well over the minimum wage these days as it can't get workers without doing that. That is how the free market works. Paying those higher wages means McDonalds has to charge more for its Big Mac and fries too.

Except in very rare circumstances, the employer doesn't hire people to 'help them out' nor do employees work 'to help the employer out'. It is a trade off of labor sold for money--labor purchased as necessary to the business. But in both looking to their own interests, a business can function providing goods and/or services to the benefit of all.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Not so long ago, I was privileged to hear the story of a Vietnamese immigrant who came into the USA with little more than a sponsor and a job waiting for him. Shortly after his arrival, the sponsor was killed in an accident and the job disappeared with him. The only work the immigrant could find was picking vegetables on a local farm so that is what he did. It was at near starvation wages but he didn't care.

However, the foreman noticed that he took great care to pick only the ripe vegetables and was careful in how he handled them so as not to bruise them. He arrived early for work and stayed late and was highly productive. Before long he was promoted to foreman, a position at which he also excelled and eventually manager. By living frugally and saving every dime he could, he was able to acquire enough venture capital to start his own business. The business is in its third year and is thriving. He recently married and is expecting his first child.

I found myself wondering how many Americans would be willing to do what he did to achieve the American dream? But he is living proof that it is still possible to achieve it when you expect to do it all on merit and not be given anything.

I bolded the part where he depended on the generosity and wisdom of his employer.

I'm skeptical that today the majority of people in such positions wouldn't be simply taken advantage of.

Be skeptical all you want. It just baffles me how uneducated some of you are about mangement and business operations. Successful companies that stand the test of time, are successful for a reason. They treat their customers well and they treat they're employees well. That's what is so confusing about all the corporate bashing. All the things you accuse 'evil' corporations of doing are things that make no sense to do from a business perspective. Treat employees like crap? Anyone educated in management know happy employees are more prdoctive then upset employees. Try to screw their customers? It makes no sense to bite the hand that feeds you. that isn't just theory. That's the case in every job I've ever worked. In fact this week every single employee in our company, which is thousands of people, got a gift check out of blue for meeting and exceeding are yearly budgetary goals. Most good companies do reward the hard work of their employees.

Most good companies do reward hard work and don't screw their customers. You're right. What baffles me is you think ALL companies are good companies that reward hard work and don't screw their customers.

 

[Bern80]

Ah yes. Faith-based economics. Gotta love it.

Perhaps you can explain to us, how is that American workers have gotten more and more productive over the past few decades, while wages have been virtually stagnant? According to your assessment, as skills increase so do wages. Why didn't that happen then?

Wages have not been stagnant. The productive, valuable employee continues to increase his earning power now as much as he did before. However, government meddling, oppressive unions, punative taxation, regulation, and mandates have driven more and more of our higher paying jobs overseas to more business friendly climates. And much of what is left are lower paying jobs, most in the service industry, that cannot be outsourced.

Get government out of the way of the free market, and a lot of those higher paying jobs will come home.

The free market works. Government interference, however, can short circuit the free market and that is almost never to the benefit of the people as a whole.

Hmm. You know I don't see a whole lot of growth there on the bottom percentiles. It's almost like they're stagnant. But you claim they aren't.

Please to explain.

What you should be taking away from that graph is that the more valuable the skill set is the more likely compensation for it will increase over time. If what you do for someone is valuable to not just your employer now, but to other prospective employers, your current employer will have to continue to increase your pay to keep you from going somewhere that pays better.

If all you have is a skill set that pretty much anyone else can do, it isn't reasonable to think said skill set is going to become any more valuable over time. Your graph reflects exactly that.

 

[Bern80]

I bolded the part where he depended on the generosity and wisdom of his employer.

I'm skeptical that today the majority of people in such positions wouldn't be simply taken advantage of.

Be skeptical all you want. It just baffles me how uneducated some of you are about mangement and business operations. Successful companies that stand the test of time, are successful for a reason. They treat their customers well and they treat they're employees well. That's what is so confusing about all the corporate bashing. All the things you accuse 'evil' corporations of doing are things that make no sense to do from a business perspective. Treat employees like crap? Anyone educated in management know happy employees are more prdoctive then upset employees. Try to screw their customers? It makes no sense to bite the hand that feeds you. that isn't just theory. That's the case in every job I've ever worked. In fact this week every single employee in our company, which is thousands of people, got a gift check out of blue for meeting and exceeding are yearly budgetary goals. Most good companies do reward the hard work of their employees.

Most good companies do reward hard work and don't screw their customers. You're right. What baffles me is you think ALL companies are good companies that reward hard work and don't screw their customers.

Never once did I use the word ALL. I do believe that the 'good' companies are the rule and not the exception. I don't see the point in what amounts to a punishment to the good companies by increasing wages to a living wage for the sake of addressing the few bad apples. That will do more harm than good in the long run.

 

[Foxfyre]

I bolded the part where he depended on the generosity and wisdom of his employer.

I'm skeptical that today the majority of people in such positions wouldn't be simply taken advantage of.

Be skeptical all you want. It just baffles me how uneducated some of you are about mangement and business operations. Successful companies that stand the test of time, are successful for a reason. They treat their customers well and they treat they're employees well. That's what is so confusing about all the corporate bashing. All the things you accuse 'evil' corporations of doing are things that make no sense to do from a business perspective. Treat employees like crap? Anyone educated in management know happy employees are more prdoctive then upset employees. Try to screw their customers? It makes no sense to bite the hand that feeds you. that isn't just theory. That's the case in every job I've ever worked. In fact this week every single employee in our company, which is thousands of people, got a gift check out of blue for meeting and exceeding are yearly budgetary goals. Most good companies do reward the hard work of their employees.

Most good companies do reward hard work and don't screw their customers. You're right. What baffles me is you think ALL companies are good companies that reward hard work and don't screw their customers.

So what if some companies don't reward hard work and do screw their customers? Isn't that part of the human condition - yin and yang - good and evil - profitable and unprofitable? What is that to you or anybody? Don't buy from the unethical company. Don't go to work for them.

Companies with the reputation for being honest and ethical will almost always prosper if they provide a product people want at a price they can afford. Companies who treat their employees fairly, honestly, and with respect attract the best people that makes them even more productive and prosperous.

Let the free market work. So long as people's unalienable rights are secured, as guaranteed by the Constitution, a free market will bring the cream to the top and bury or obscure the rotten. Try to do that artificially and you will invariably promote the bad and harm the good.

 

[Kuros]

Not so long ago, I was privileged to hear the story of a Vietnamese immigrant who came into the USA with little more than a sponsor and a job waiting for him. Shortly after his arrival, the sponsor was killed in an accident and the job disappeared with him. The only work the immigrant could find was picking vegetables on a local farm so that is what he did. It was at near starvation wages but he didn't care.

However, the foreman noticed that he took great care to pick only the ripe vegetables and was careful in how he handled them so as not to bruise them. He arrived early for work and stayed late and was highly productive. Before long he was promoted to foreman, a position at which he also excelled and eventually manager. By living frugally and saving every dime he could, he was able to acquire enough venture capital to start his own business. The business is in its third year and is thriving. He recently married and is expecting his first child.

I found myself wondering how many Americans would be willing to do what he did to achieve the American dream? But he is living proof that it is still possible to achieve it when you expect to do it all on merit and not be given anything.

I bolded the part where he depended on the generosity and wisdom of his employer.

I'm skeptical that today the majority of people in such positions wouldn't be simply taken advantage of.

Be skeptical all you want. It just baffles me how uneducated some of you are about mangement and business operations. Successful companies that stand the test of time, are successful for a reason. They treat their customers well and they treat they're employees well. That's what is so confusing about all the corporate bashing. All the things you accuse 'evil' corporations of doing are things that make no sense to do from a business perspective. Treat employees like crap? Anyone educated in management know happy employees are more prdoctive then upset employees. Try to screw their customers? It makes no sense to bite the hand that feeds you. that isn't just theory. That's the case in every job I've ever worked. In fact this week every single employee in our company, which is thousands of people, got a gift check out of blue for meeting and exceeding are yearly budgetary goals. Most good companies do reward the hard work of their employees.

You don't know me, or my background, or my knowledge of business/management.

I've bolded the strawmen you've just pulled out of your ass.

The best part of your post is a mere personal anecdote. You'll have to do better than that.

 

[Kuros]

Let the free market work. So long as people's unalienable rights are secured, as guaranteed by the Constitution, a free market will bring the cream to the top and bury or obscure the rotten. Try to do that artificially and you will invariably promote the bad and harm the good.

Wake up. We don't have a free market. We have socialized risk and privatized profit.

Its called corporatism.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Pardon me, but that is pure and utter bullshit. If they follow what I did, they will succeed as much as they want to. My 18 year old college freshman son is following our example and is studying a specialized field where companies are waiting for the kids to graduate and paying them very well right out of college. My nephew who is a couple of years older has a garage band that plays weekend gigs for beer money, is a clerk in a retail store and drops out of the one or two classes he enrolls in.......but he's happy as a stoned clam at this stage in life. Ten years from now....not so much and he'll be one of the have nots bitching about the haves and saying it isn't "fair". Life is about choices and you will live by the choices you make.

Bingo

And the great thing is... we have the freedom to fail or succeed all on our own choices...

If you think you fail or succeed purely on your choices alone, then you're going to have some painful growing up coming your way.

My God... what did your parents do to you?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I bolded the part where he depended on the generosity and wisdom of his employer.

I'm skeptical that today the majority of people in such positions wouldn't be simply taken advantage of.

Be skeptical all you want. It just baffles me how uneducated some of you are about mangement and business operations. Successful companies that stand the test of time, are successful for a reason. They treat their customers well and they treat they're employees well. That's what is so confusing about all the corporate bashing. All the things you accuse 'evil' corporations of doing are things that make no sense to do from a business perspective. Treat employees like crap? Anyone educated in management know happy employees are more prdoctive then upset employees. Try to screw their customers? It makes no sense to bite the hand that feeds you. that isn't just theory. That's the case in every job I've ever worked. In fact this week every single employee in our company, which is thousands of people, got a gift check out of blue for meeting and exceeding are yearly budgetary goals. Most good companies do reward the hard work of their employees.

You don't know me, or my background, or my knowledge of business/management.

I've bolded the strawmen you've just pulled out of your ass.

The best part of your post is a mere personal anecdote. You'll have to do better than that.

Admittedly, I know nothing of your background.... but your knowledge of business/management is on full display... it is sorely lacking.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Like it or not kids, labor is a commodity like everything else. In general, it fetches the going price... some labor's a 1976 Ford Pinto, some's a 2011 Infinity M35. And guess what? In hard times, you can even get a good deal on a M35.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Wages have not been stagnant. The productive, valuable employee continues to increase his earning power now as much as he did before. However, government meddling, oppressive unions, punative taxation, regulation, and mandates have driven more and more of our higher paying jobs overseas to more business friendly climates. And much of what is left are lower paying jobs, most in the service industry, that cannot be outsourced.

Get government out of the way of the free market, and a lot of those higher paying jobs will come home.

The free market works. Government interference, however, can short circuit the free market and that is almost never to the benefit of the people as a whole.

Hmm. You know I don't see a whole lot of growth there on the bottom percentiles. It's almost like they're stagnant. But you claim they aren't.

Please to explain.

What you should be taking away from that graph is that the more valuable the skill set is the more likely compensation for it will increase over time. If what you do for someone is valuable to not just your employer now, but to other prospective employers, your current employer will have to continue to increase your pay to keep you from going somewhere that pays better.

If all you have is a skill set that pretty much anyone else can do, it isn't reasonable to think said skill set is going to become any more valuable over time. Your graph reflects exactly that.

So in other words, you don't think experience is rewarded in any way nor should it be. You think that someone starting on the line in a factory has the exact same skills as someone on that line for 20 years. And that they should be paid exactly the same wages. Wow dude.

I worked in HR for a major company and was allowed to see the annual raises for everyone, all positions. I saw Admin Assistants getting 3% raises while their VP bosses got 10%. CEOs, even higher. THAT is what this chart represents.

 

[Kuros]

Be skeptical all you want. It just baffles me how uneducated some of you are about mangement and business operations. Successful companies that stand the test of time, are successful for a reason. They treat their customers well and they treat they're employees well. That's what is so confusing about all the corporate bashing. All the things you accuse 'evil' corporations of doing are things that make no sense to do from a business perspective. Treat employees like crap? Anyone educated in management know happy employees are more prdoctive then upset employees. Try to screw their customers? It makes no sense to bite the hand that feeds you. that isn't just theory. That's the case in every job I've ever worked. In fact this week every single employee in our company, which is thousands of people, got a gift check out of blue for meeting and exceeding are yearly budgetary goals. Most good companies do reward the hard work of their employees.

You don't know me, or my background, or my knowledge of business/management.

I've bolded the strawmen you've just pulled out of your ass.

The best part of your post is a mere personal anecdote. You'll have to do better than that.

Admittedly, I know nothing of your background.... but your knowledge of business/management is on full display... it is sorely lacking.

How so?

Look, I've never seen you write in paragraph form, or anything beyond one-line quips. Show me your work. How can you infer I have no understanding of business/management?

 

[Foxfyre]

Let the free market work. So long as people's unalienable rights are secured, as guaranteed by the Constitution, a free market will bring the cream to the top and bury or obscure the rotten. Try to do that artificially and you will invariably promote the bad and harm the good.

Wake up. We don't have a free market. We have socialized risk and privatized profit.

Its called corporatism.

Corporatism is not evil. All incorporation does is adjust the means and risk of handling assets, taxes, and liability.

Government meddling is rarely intended to be evil, but too often results in being just that. You are correct that we too often do not have a free market these days due to an incomprehensible tax code, over regulation, government picking winners and losers, and similar meddling.

But, if we can again put people into Congress and the White House who understand the benefits of the free market and a free people, we can return to a free market system. And that will return the nation to a track of prosperity.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You don't know me, or my background, or my knowledge of business/management.

I've bolded the strawmen you've just pulled out of your ass.

The best part of your post is a mere personal anecdote. You'll have to do better than that.

Admittedly, I know nothing of your background.... but your knowledge of business/management is on full display... it is sorely lacking.

How so?

Look, I've never seen you write in paragraph form, or anything beyond one-line quips. Show me your work. How can you infer I have no understanding of business/management?

What's the FUTA rate?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Define EBITDAM.

No Googling now!!!!!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Just as I figured, you don't know shit.

 

[Bern80]

You don't know me, or my background, or my knowledge of business/management.

The only evidence I have is what you post here. And based on what you post here, you're an idiot.

I've bolded the strawmen you've just pulled out of your ass.

The best part of your post is a mere personal anecdote. You'll have to do better than that.

Why? What evidence do YOU have that the company I work for is the exception rather than the rule?What evidence do you have that anything I said in that post is incorrect?