Even the "Economist" prints, "Was Israel a Mistake"

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I agree with Oriana Fallaci.

I find it shameful that in Italy there should be a procession of individuals dressed as suicide bombers who spew vile abuse at Israel, hold up photographs of Israeli leaders on whose foreheads they have drawn the swasitka, incite people to hate the Jews. And who, in order to see Jews once again in the extermination camps, in the gas chambers, in the ovens of Dachau and Mauthausen and Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen et cetera, would sell their own mother to a harem.

I find it shameful that the Catholic Church should permit a bishop, one with lodgings in the Vatican no less, a saintly man who was found in Jerusalem with an arsenal of arms and explosives hidden in the secret compartments of his sacred Mercedes, to participate in that procession and plant himself in front of a microphone to thank in the name of God the suicide bombers who massacre the Jews in pizzerias and supermarkets. To call them "martyrs who go to their deaths as to a party."

I find it shameful that in France, the France of Liberty-Equality-Fraternity, they burn synagogues, terrorize Jews, profane their cemeteries. I find it shameful that the youth of Holland and Germany and Denmark flaunt the kaffiah just as Mussolini's avant garde used to flaunt the club and the fascist badge. I find it shameful that in nearly all the universities of Europe Palestinian students sponsor and nurture anti-semitism. That in Sweden they asked that the Nobel Peace Prize given to Shimon Peres in 1994 be taken back and conferred on the dove with the olive branch in his mouth, that is on Arafat. I find it shameful that the distinguished members of the Committee, a Committee that (it would appear) rewards political color rather than merit, should take this request into consideration and even respond to it. In hell the Nobel Prize honors he who does not receive it.

I find it shameful (we're back in Italy) that state-run television stations contribute to the resurgent antisemitism, crying only over Palestinian deaths while playing down Israeli deaths, glossing over them in unwilling tones. I find it shameful that in their debates they host with much deference the scoundrels with turban or kaffiah who yesterday sang hymns to the slaughter at New York and today sing hymns to the slaughters at Jerusalem, at Haifa, at Netanya, at Tel Aviv. I find it shameful that the press does the same, that it is indignant because Israeli tanks surround the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, that it is not indignant because inside that same church two hundred Palestinian terrorists well armed with machine guns and munitions and explosives (among them are various leaders of Hamas and Al-Aqsa) are not unwelcome guests of the monks (who then accept bottles of mineral water and jars of honey from the soldiers of those tanks). I find it shameful that, in giving the number of Israelis killed since the beginning of the Second Intifada (four hundred twelve), a noted daily newspaper found it appropriate to underline in capital letters that more people are killed in their traffic accidents. (Six hundred a year).

I find it shameful that the Roman Observer, the newspaper of the Pope--a Pope who not long ago left in the Wailing Wall a letter of apology for the Jews--accuses of extermination a people who were exterminated in the millions by Christians. By Europeans. I find it shameful that this newspaper denies to the survivors of that people (survivors who still have numbers tattooed on their arms) the right to react, to defend themselves, to not be exterminated again. I find it shameful that in the name of Jesus Christ (a Jew without whom they would all be unemployed), the priests of our parishes or Social Centers or whatever they are flirt with the assassins of those in Jerusalem who cannot go to eat a pizza or buy some eggs without being blown up. I find it shameful that they are on the side of the very ones who inaugurated terrorism, killing us on airplanes, in airports, at the Olympics, and who today entertain themselves by killing western journalists. By shooting them, abducting them, cutting their throats, decapitating them.

(There's someone in Italy who, since the appearance of Anger and Pride, would like to do the same to me. Citing verses of the Koran he exorts his "brothers" in the mosques and the Islamic Community to chastise me in the name of Allah. To kill me. Or rather to die with me. Since he's someone who speaks English well, I'll respond to him in English: "**** you.")

I find it shameful that almost all of the left, the left that twenty years ago permitted one of its union processionals to deposit a coffin (as a mafioso warning) in front of the synagogue of Rome, forgets the contribution made by the Jews to the fight against fascism. Made by Carlo and Nello Rossini, for example, by Leone Ginzburg, by Umberto Terracini, by Leo Valiani, by Emilio Sereni, by women like my friend Anna Maria Enriques Agnoletti who was shot at Florence on June 12, 1944, by seventy-five of the three-hundred-thirty-five people killed at the Fosse Ardeatine, by the infinite others killed under torture or in combat or before firing squads. (The companions, the teachers, of my infancy and my youth.)

I find it shameful that in part through the fault of the left--or rather, primarily through the fault of the left (think of the left that inaugurates its congresses applauding the representative of the PLO, leader in Italy of the Palestinians who want the destruction of Israel)--Jews in Italian cities are once again afraid. And in French cities and Dutch cities and Danish cities and German cities, it is the same. I find it shameful that Jews tremble at the passage of the scoundrels dressed like suicide bombers just as they trembled during Krystallnacht, the night in which Hitler gave free rein to the Hunt of the Jews.

I find it shameful that in obedience to the stupid, vile, dishonest, and for them extremely advantageous fashion of Political Correctness the usual opportunists--or better the usual parasites--exploit the word Peace. That in the name of the word Peace, by now more debauched than the words Love and Humanity, they absolve one side alone of its hate and bestiality. That in the name of a pacifism (read conformism) delegated to the singing crickets and buffoons who used to lick Pol Pot's feet they incite people who are confused or ingenuous or intimidated. Trick them, corrupt them, carry them back a half century to the time of the yellow star on the coat. These charlatans who care about the Palestinians as much as I care about the charlatans. That is not at all.

I find it shameful that many Italians and many Europeans have chosen as their standard-bearer the gentleman (or so it is polite to say) Arafat. This nonentity who thanks to the money of the Saudi Royal Family plays the Mussolini ad perpetuum and in his megalomania believes he will pass into History as the George Washington of Palestine. This ungrammatical wretch who when I interviewed him was unable even to put together a complete sentence, to make articulate conversation. So that to put it all together, write it, publish it, cost me a tremendous effort and I concluded that compared to him even Ghaddafi sounds like Leonardo da Vinci.

This false warrior who always goes around in uniform like Pinochet, never putting on civilian garb, and yet despite this has never participated in a battle. War is something he sends, has always sent, others to do for him. That is, the poor souls who believe in him. This pompous incompetent who playing the part of Head of State caused the failure of the Camp David negotiations, Clinton's mediation. No-no-I-want-Jerusalem-all-to-myself. This eternal liar who has a flash of sincerity only when (in private) he denies Israel's right to exist, and who as I say in my book contradicts himself every five minutes. He always plays the double-cross, lies even if you ask him what time it is, so that you can never trust him. Never! With him you will always wind up systematically betrayed. This eternal terrorist who knows only how to be a terrorist (while keeping himself safe) and who during the Seventies, that is when I interviewed him, even trained the terrorists of Baader-Meinhof. With them, children ten years of age. Poor children. (Now he trains them to become suicide bombers. A hundred baby suicide bombers are in the works: a hundred!).

This weathercock who keeps his wife at Paris, served and revered like a queen, and keeps his people down in the shit. He takes them out of the shit only to send them to die, to kill and to die, like the eighteen year old girls who in order to earn equality with men have to strap on explosives and disintegrate with their victims. And yet many Italians love him, yes. Just like they loved Mussolini. And many other Europeans do the same.

I find it shameful and see in all this the rise of a new fascism, a new nazism. A fascism, a nazism, that much more grim and revolting because it is conducted and nourished by those who hypocritically pose as do-gooders, progressives, communists, pacifists, Catholics or rather Christians, and who have the gall to label a warmonger anyone like me who screams the truth.

I see it, yes, and I say the following. I have never been tender with the tragic and Shakespearean figure Sharon. ("I know you've come to add another scalp to your necklace," he murmured almost with sadness when I went to interview him in 1982.) I have often had disagreements with the Israelis, ugly ones, and in the past I have defended the Palestinians a great deal. Maybe more than they deserved. But I stand with Israel, I stand with the Jews.

I stand just as I stood as a young girl during the time when I fought with them, and when the Anna Marias were shot. I defend their right to exist, to defend themselves, to not let themselves be exterminated a second time. And disgusted by the antisemitism of many Italians, of many Europeans, I am ashamed of this shame that dishonors my Country and Europe. At best, it is not a community of States, but a pit of Pontius Pilates. And even if all the inhabitants of this planet were to think otherwise, I would continue to think so.


General Topics - Oriana Fallaci on Antisemitism Today
 
anukulardecider, Indeependent, Humanity, et al,

Disagreement with foreign policy, even domestic policy, does not make one an anti-government personality. Criticism is a "right" and a means of participation in "self-government." It actually goes hand---in---hand with "self-determination."

Even Jews are opposed to Jewish State!

Of course it was a mistake!

It's not a new phenomena!

Links?
Or just plain old stupidy?
Even self-hating Jews send millions to Israel.

I don't always agree with American foreign policy. I wonder if that makes me a self hating American? :D
(COMMENT)

In any "self-governing" nation, there is bound to be disagreement on governance and policy. It is human nature and a characterization of a health population. Not all countries, especially in the Middle East and Persian Gulf, tolerate discord (lack of harmony between people).

In Israel, there are bound to be those with ideas that run counter to Israel Policy. That doesn't make them "self-hating Jews." And just because they disagree with the implementation of a policy, does not mean they totally disagree with the policy. Even the very best policies are sometimes implemented poorly and need alteration.

Opposition to the "Jewish State" comes in many forms. To understand the opposing point-of-view, one must listen and understand the perspective before it can address it in any intelligent way. Opposition to a "Jewish State" does not always mean opposition to a secular (neutral in matters of religion) State of Israel. But that is entirely a domestic issue (a matter of the right to self-determination) and not the concern of the surrounding Arab community (external influence).

Most Respectfully,
R
 
When Jordan welcomes back their West Bank Palestinians with open arms and Egypt recognizes the governance of Hamas and abandons the more moderate PAuthority --- you can celebrate about "making progress".. Because the polls I'VE READ indicate that Gazans are OVERWHELMINGLY against the Hamas strategy of lobbing inacurate ordinance into Israel to provoke violence.. Up to 70% disagreed with Hamas on a lot of things. "Elections" are a thing of the past with this group. They have been postponed and ignored because Gazans dont value peaceful revolutions.

And questioning Israels right to life and existence is a marginal view amongst most responsible populations. You could DUMP Israel tomorrow and by next WEEK --- it's guaranteed that the death toll would be HIGHER amongst the warring factions of Islam...

Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt have all washed their hands of the militant Palis demanding Israel's demise. So shame on the leftist University academics here that want to out do the rhetoric...

I don't know about Lebanon. It used to be an enlightened, democratic Christian-Arab nation...until Hezbollah took it over.
 
When Jordan welcomes back their West Bank Palestinians with open arms and Egypt recognizes the governance of Hamas and abandons the more moderate PAuthority --- you can celebrate about "making progress".. Because the polls I'VE READ indicate that Gazans are OVERWHELMINGLY against the Hamas strategy of lobbing inacurate ordinance into Israel to provoke violence.. Up to 70% disagreed with Hamas on a lot of things. "Elections" are a thing of the past with this group. They have been postponed and ignored because Gazans dont value peaceful revolutions.

And questioning Israels right to life and existence is a marginal view amongst most responsible populations. You could DUMP Israel tomorrow and by next WEEK --- it's guaranteed that the death toll would be HIGHER amongst the warring factions of Islam...

Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt have all washed their hands of the militant Palis demanding Israel's demise. So shame on the leftist University academics here that want to out do the rhetoric...

Are you talking about forceably relocating West Bank Palestinians to Jordan? That is not where most of them came from.
 
The Palestinians are forcibly tunneling into Israel.

They're going the wrong way.

Getting From Gaza to Israel, by Underground Tunnels


gaza_tunnels-ai2html-945.jpg



1 The Israeli military said it had uncovered about two dozen tunnels with more than 60 access points, many of them in this Gaza City neighborhood where there has been some of the most intense fighting.

2 In early July, the Israeli Air Force struck a tunnel that led to this kibbutz, near where Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier, was captured in 2006.

3 Hamas gunmen emerged from a tunnel about a mile from this kibbutz last Thursday. Israeli officials cited this as the final straw before the ground invasion.

4 Eight Palestinian militants emerged from a tunnel near here on Saturday, armed with automatic weapons and wearing Israeli military uniforms.

5 A deadly battle ensued between Israeli troops and Hamas militants on Monday after the militants emerged from a tunnel about 500 yards from this community’s homes. 6 Some of the militants tried to make their way here. 7 Residents of this kibbutz were warned to stay inside.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-hamas-tunnels.html
 
Because I prefer to do PROPER research on subjects I care about rather than simply regurgitate the mainstream media BS or docrotins of extremists I find a TRUER balance of thinking, of ideas, both Muslim and Jew, in this case...

Shame that cannot be said of you!

"Zionism is totally contrary to the teachings of traditional Judaism through the words of our Rabbis, Sages, and Holy Scriptures which oppose the creation of a state called Israel."

Go do your own research and LEARN SOMETHING!

What an ironic pity it is that the 'new' poster who urges another to 'go do your own research and LEARN SOMETHING' is evidently unable to research well enough to avoid breaking the rules of this site.

I tried to do research, but couldn't locate 'docrotins' in the dictionaries.... I suspect the poor git meant 'doctrines' of extremists. Which again I note as ironic given the purported "quote".

Being a "new poster" means what exactly? I have just been born? That I have been living in a cave all my life? That I have been brainwashed by Muslim/Zionist extremists? Yes, I mention both, especially as I am neither Jew nor Muslim...

Never heard of Google?

It's an amazing piece of technology... Type in a question and you can really dig VERY deep to find the truth! Go on, give it a go... You need to!

And if your only 'attack' against me is my typo....

Well, I think it is YOU who wins the "poor git" award... Congratulations! :eusa_clap:
 
Yawn.... Tell Hamas to stop firing Rockets

Yawn.... Tell Israel to get out of occupied territory

It is obvious your google searching abilities are wanting.
Try reading, and explicitly linking to, neutral sites.

Yeah, you are right, maybe I should stop quoting from JEWISH sites and stick with the Hamas ones!

Numpty!

Go do your own research on JEWISH sites and then come back and tell me I am an Arab loving Nazi! Which, of course I am sure you will!
 
Was Israel a mistake? No.

The mistake was made in the wars. Long term peace would have been better achieved with a more thorough ethnic cleansing. There's a hell of a price to pay as it's happening, but once it's a fait accompli, the foundation for long term peace is far more stable.
 
Yawn.... Tell Israel to get out of occupied territory

It is obvious your google searching abilities are wanting.
Try reading, and explicitly linking to, neutral sites.

Yeah, you are right, maybe I should stop quoting from JEWISH sites and stick with the Hamas ones!

Numpty!

Go do your own research on JEWISH sites and then come back and tell me I am an Arab loving Nazi! Which, of course I am sure you will!

We know revisionist history when we see it.
At least the others have the balls to link to it.
 
Israel was quite clearly a major misjudgement by all involved.

Time to cancel the place. We were supposed to have defeated the Nazis in WWII, not to have incubated their DNA in a group of Europeans who took all their cues from 1930's Germany, then added on a veneer of propaganda that Goebbels would have envied.
 
The only mistake are some anti Israel posts in this thread!

Israel is a legitimate State, with a Jewish presence there for 4.000 years.

And will still be there for another 4.000 more, long after all of us are gone!



Live with it! :)
 
Israel was quite clearly a major misjudgement by all involved.

Time to cancel the place. We were supposed to have defeated the Nazis in WWII, not to have incubated their DNA in a group of Europeans who took all their cues from 1930's Germany, then added on a veneer of propaganda that Goebbels would have envied.

Sadly you can see see why Israel is desperate to cancel Hamas and the rest of the crew..
 
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Even Jews are opposed to Jewish State!

Of course it was a mistake!

It's not a new phenomena!

Yes, that is your opinion. Now tell me why I need to care what you think.

Gosh, you and your fellow brethren are lazy, tiresome and, well, to be honest, uneducated...

Go read JEWISH websites man, go read what TRUE Jews think about Israel...

It's NOT my opinion, it is the opinion of Jews!

You want me to waste my time on links? Fine, I will post links to JEWISH websites that quite clearly state that Israel should NOT exist...

Of course, if you were a REAL Jew, you would know this already...
 
15th post
It is obvious your google searching abilities are wanting.
Try reading, and explicitly linking to, neutral sites.

Yeah, you are right, maybe I should stop quoting from JEWISH sites and stick with the Hamas ones!

Numpty!

Go do your own research on JEWISH sites and then come back and tell me I am an Arab loving Nazi! Which, of course I am sure you will!

We know revisionist history when we see it.
At least the others have the balls to link to it.

Google is your friend...

Unless you are a Jew... Then you will very quickly find that there is a million kms between a Jew and a Zionist!

Extremism is, and will always be extremism... No matter where you come from, where your loyalties lay

Zionists are hated by Jews...

Don't understand? Then you are not a real Jew so you will have to rely on Google to teach you!

Is it my place to teach Zionists? NO! I am neither Jew nor Muslim... I am a human being watching the continued abuse of power over the weak... This is wrong...
 

The Economist is a financial magazine, normally very supportive of Israel.

The Economist is a typical Western magazine ... they print the news. In this case they printed a question asked by 1 lawyer at a conference of 40 peeps in Manchester, England. It proves absolutely nuttin. No vote was taken and no discussion was reported. Meanwhile, from the same article:
... in the streets outside noisy, heavily policed anti-Israel demonstrations are taking place. “Death to Jews,” a few protesters chant at ultra-Orthodox Jews on their way home through Broughton Park, in the north of the English city.
 
The only mistake are some anti Israel posts in this thread!

Israel is a legitimate State, with a Jewish presence there for 4.000 years.

And will still be there for another 4.000 more, long after all of us are gone!

Live with it! :)

There are a number of mistakes...

The belief that zionist extremists feel that oppression is the ONLY solution...

That non Jews are unaware of the division between what a Jew is and what a zionist is!

Real Jews know what oppression is, what it feels like and would never put oppression upon another people, state or religion...

There are a lot of 'soundbites' on this forum relating to 'Nazis'... There is only one state that is acting like 'nazis' and that is Israel...

Israel is NOT a legitimate state until it accepts the atrocities it has committed, the occupation of other states is wrong.... Until Israel quits with its bully boy tactics there will never be peace in the region.

How long do you think Muslim presence has been in Palestine? Exactly! Time is irrelevant!

I would accept a large wager with you that Israel will NOT be there 4000 years from now...
 
Yeah, you are right, maybe I should stop quoting from JEWISH sites and stick with the Hamas ones!

Numpty!

Go do your own research on JEWISH sites and then come back and tell me I am an Arab loving Nazi! Which, of course I am sure you will!

We know revisionist history when we see it.
At least the others have the balls to link to it.

Google is your friend...

Unless you are a Jew... Then you will very quickly find that there is a million kms between a Jew and a Zionist!

Extremism is, and will always be extremism... No matter where you come from, where your loyalties lay

Zionists are hated by Jews...

Camel crap. The vast majority of Jews are Zionists but their numbers are dwarfed by the number of non-Jews - even Muslims - who are also Zionists.

Muslim supporters of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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