Europe calls to prepare for US withdrawal from NATO after Trump's return

[Stann]

The US is paying for about 2/3 of the NATO cost and 1/3 of the UN fees.

Why are so many US politicians OK with this? Trump is right. Tell them we are going to dump their ass, and let them believe it.
Play them for once instead just f us being the ones getting played.

Disrespect gets one attention , it doesn't help anyone. Games are for fools with too much time on their hands.

 

[Stann]

The US is paying for about 2/3 of the NATO cost and 1/3 of the UN fees.

Why are so many US politicians OK with this? Trump is right. Tell them we are going to dump their ass, and let them believe it.
Play them for once instead just f us being the ones getting played.

No one pays more than Poland 3.9% , the U.S. follows with 3.49%. Life isn't fair , who knew !

 

[eagle1462010]

You didn't complain about 2% when the rest of NATO headed the call when the US invoked Article 5 in 2001.

Token forces, except the Uk. Laughable argument

 

[AZrailwhale]

We do the readiness exercises with the South Koreans annually to this day.

That’s on a much smaller scale than Reforger.

 

[AZrailwhale]

And leave behind millions in military equipment every year off the books.

I think like in Germany in the Cold War the equipment stays in depots being maintained against the day the DPRK decides to go active in the war that has never ended since 1950. There is only a fragile cease fire on the Korean Peninsula, not an armistice or peace treaty. The DPRK violates the ceasefire about every other year.

 

[Stann]

You didn't complain about 2% when the rest of NATO headed the call when the US invoked Article 5 in 2001.

Although Bush did not listen to his father's advice and stay out of Iraq, he had the sense to know we needed help from our allies.

 

[Stann]

We do the readiness exercises with the South Koreans annually to this day.

And they are great allies.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Congress passed a bill in December barring any president from leaving NATO.

With all due respect, Digital? All Trump would have to do is reduce funding for NATO...the US wouldn't have left...they just wouldn't be footing the largest part of the cost any more. Why people think the US should pay more than say Germany to protect Germany escapes me.

 

[Stann]

How about Trump's buddy Orban. Does he pay his "fair share?"

Did trump ever pay his fair share ?

 

[Stann]

From what? The only threat Russia poses to the US is ICBMs. No amount of troops on the ground, no amount of money wasted on Eurotrash will change that. Spend that money on better air defense and let Europe take care of itself. Combined Europe has more people, more money, and equal or better technology than Russia, so why do they need us at all? They are simply pathetic and unworthy of our aid.

Unworthy ? Time will tell who is worthy and who is not.

 

[Stann]

With all due respect, Digital? All Trump would have to do is reduce funding for NATO...the US wouldn't have left...they just wouldn't be footing the largest part of the cost any more. Why people think the US should pay more than say Germany to protect Germany escapes me.

What part of mutual defense pact don't you understand.

 

[Stann]

You mean exactly what happened last time, when Trump was already the President?

You mean when he made a complete fool of himself.

 

[Man With A Plan]

What part of mutual defense pact don't you understand.

When one member of the pact spends 70% of the total that the other members spend on defense combined, it hardly seems unreasonable to ask why that is, Stann. All Trump did was hold the members of NATO that weren't living up to their "mutual defense pact" commitments accountable. They may not LIKE that...I mean who doesn't like having someone else spend their money so you don't have to...but that didn't mean that Trump was out of line!

 

[Foxfyre]

Europe calls to prepare for US withdrawal from NATO after Trump's return​

MSN

9 Mar 2024 ~~ by Oleksandra Zimko

NATO diplomats believe that Europe needs to prepare for a possible US withdrawal from the alliance if Donald Trump returns to the White House.
The prospect of Trump's return to power after the US election is raising concerns in Europe about continued US support for Ukraine and NATO allies. According to The Telegraph, diplomats in NATO countries believe that European capitals need to prepare a plan and review their current defense capabilities.
One European diplomat told The Telegraph that Trump's controversial statements, including his refusal to help allies in the event of a Russian attack, are "a concern."
"Nobody knows what he's going to do next," the diplomat said, adding that NATO countries should develop a scenario to reduce the alliance's dependence on the United States.
A diplomat from another NATO country said that countries like Britain should take even more of a lead in European security, as a possible U.S. withdrawal from NATO would create a "massive gap."


Commentary:
What do the NATO countries expect from a strong president?
For decades Europe NATO signatories have dragged their feet in meeting their Treaty responsibilities contributing to their own safety. They've relied on the largess and funding from the U.S.A.
Now that Trump has called them on their lack of participation in Defense of Europe they're shaking in their boots.
The invasion of Ukraine by Russia has been their wake-up call and this has made all of Europe shaky.
US in NATO or not, it is high time Europe gets ready to defend themselves.

See more:

What NATO allies must do to prepare for Russian aggression

While it’s expensive to do what’s necessary to deter major aggression, it would be far more expensive to fight a major war if deterrence fails.

www.politico.eu

In the first place, Trump's remarks were his typical hyperbole as to what should happen if NATO allies refuse to pay their fair share for their own defense. Your source completely leaves that out of the equation and that is the absolute point of the remarks in the first place. Why should the USA spend their blood and pleasure for countries that leach off us and refuse to do their part? That was his doctrine when he was President before and that is his doctrine now. (And they did pony up a bunch more money when he was President.)

 

[para bellum]

When one member of the pact spends 70% of the total that the other members spend on defense combined, it hardly seems unreasonable to ask why that is, Stann. All Trump did was hold the members of NATO that weren't living up to their "mutual defense pact" commitments accountable. They may not LIKE that...I mean who doesn't like having someone else spend their money so you don't have to...but that didn't mean that Trump was out of line!

Every President since Clinton has asked NATO countries to spend more, Trump was just more vocal. And I agree they have not met their commitments- not even so much to us, but to their own neighbors. If Germany only spends 1% on defense, how much can France count on Germany?

BUT. The US has interests outside NATO as well. We have Pacific allies that we are also committed to defending. Not all US defense spending is NATO oriented.

It has also been our unofficial policy that we didn't really want European countries to build big armies- that didn't work out to well in the 20th century. The consensus in D.C. since the end of WW2 has been that a permanent presence from us will help prevent them from going after each other.

The same goes for Japan and South Korea, btw. They aren't exactly best of friends, give them a little push and they are at each other's throats.

Finally you have to consider the non-proliferation regime. NATO underpins the non-proliferation regime in Europe. Without the NATO nuclear umbrella, a lot of countries would have to drop out of the NPT and pursue a nuclear deterrent of their own. NATO guarantees those countries can abide by the NPT. Break NATO, you break the non-proliferation regime in Europe.

Anywho...

 

[AtlasWept]

NATO no longer requires America to function effectively. We should have left the alliance many years ago.

 

[Doc7505]

Every President since Clinton has asked NATO countries to spend more, Trump was just more vocal. And I agree they have not met their commitments- not even so much to us, but to their own neighbors. If Germany only spends 1% on defense, how much can France count on Germany?

BUT. The US has interests outside NATO as well. We have Pacific allies that we are also committed to defending. Not all US defense spending is NATO oriented.

It has also been our unofficial policy that we didn't really want European countries to build big armies- that didn't work out to well in the 20th century. The consensus in D.C. since the end of WW2 has been that a permanent presence from us will help prevent them from going after each other.

The same goes for Japan and South Korea, btw. They aren't exactly best of friends, give them a little push and they are at each other's throats.

Finally you have to consider the non-proliferation regime. NATO underpins the non-proliferation regime in Europe. Without the NATO nuclear umbrella, a lot of countries would have to drop out of the NPT and pursue a nuclear deterrent of their own. NATO guarantees those countries can abide by the NPT. Break NATO, you break the non-proliferation regime in Europe.

Anywho...

~~~~~~
I agree with you. Seems our Pacific partners are holding to their part of SEATO. Japan has upped their military and building their Miliary, South Korea is up there, and so is Australia and N.Z., Seems even the Phillipines is upping their contributions now.
The Ukraine seems to have been a wake-up call for Gernany. Poland seems to have icreased their share of the military. Countries like Italy need to be shaken up,
Meanwhile, in America our industrial Centers are rusting away or sold.
We no longer melt or mould lead much less manufacture Steel. In fact U.S. Steel was recent sold lock, stock and barrel to Japan.
Here's one for you...

Minnesota foundry closes over high energy costs, as the state pushes 100% renewable energy

Northern Foundry shut down, laying off 91 employees, citing increasing electricity rates. Minnesota passed a law in 2023 committing to 100% renewable energy by 2040.

justthenews.com

​

 

[Stann]

When one member of the pact spends 70% of the total that the other members spend on defense combined, it hardly seems unreasonable to ask why that is, Stann. All Trump did was hold the members of NATO that weren't living up to their "mutual defense pact" commitments accountable. They may not LIKE that...I mean who doesn't like having someone else spend their money so you don't have to...but that didn't mean that Trump was out of line!

trump was a total idiot in.the way he went about it. Also those numbers trump used were a lie of course. There's ways of doing things and there's ways not to do things. Of course trump did it the wrong way.

 

[Stann]

NATO no longer requires America to function effectively. We should have left the alliance many years ago.

Let's make the future even more perilous while you're at it.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Trump will have to find a way to do it without Congress.

It's unlikely that Mr. Trump will win. And if he does, Congress has already blocked him