Ethnic Cleansing Lovers Butthurt: Israel Approves 2,500 New Settlements

[MJB12741]

Egypt & Jordan have both greatly benefited from a peaceful co-existence with Israel. Not so the Palestinians. And who's fault is that?

 

[GHook93]

Is it legally, technically their land (as opposed to simply claiming it is theirs?) I know Palestine CLAIMS it's theirs and wants it back.

(This also goes back to 2 old adages - "Don't start a war you can't win' and 'To the victor goes the spoils'.)

The borders were fixed at the end of the 6 Days War in 1967. The far right and especially the Likud party in Israel are doing the same as Russia in Crimea and Ukraine. The war hawks are in charge in Israel now and are proving their duplicity with their expansionist paradigm.

You are a numbnutz! The border were never fixed. Israel offered the Palestians 98% of the land they requested and they decided to attack Israel. The Muslims cocksuckers will never accept anything. There keep building and push them further back and when they come back and ask for a state. The Israelis say that was then the situation changed, here is 75%. The. They fight and come back and say it has changed that was then here is 60% keep going down and down.

Also they need to start deporting as many Muslims as possible. Any one with Jihadi ties, ship to Gaza. Any crime, even small crime Gaza.

They should start giving incentives to leave and make it easy with monetary incentives to emigrate l.


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I accept the facts that you have both an opinion and an asshole to broadcast it from! Time for you to catch up, chump!

I honestly don't care if the Frankenstians get a state. They are racial, culturally, religious and ethnically the same as the rest of the Arab states. They should forced to move there.

The world does not need another Muslim
State we need less.


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[Weatherman2020]

Is ethnic cleansing right? At any point by anyone?

Ethnic cleansing is never right. The problem is that sometimes it is effective. Especially in social groups which have irrational ideas about other groups, it can be effective in reducing tension and conflict. It can be effective in protecting people. And that might, just might, make it genuinely justifiable in some cases.

The ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the ME, for example, had a protective effect -- it protected the Jewish people and all their descendants from harm that might have come to them in the ME countries that would likely still be on-going today. The ethnic cleansing of the Jewish people from Yemen had a protective effect. The separation of India and Pakistan had a protective effect (fighting is largely contained to border areas if I understand correctly).

I don't believe it is morally correct to restrict Jewish settlements or remove Jewish settlements based on ethnicity. No matter how you color that one it remains nothing more than the argument "there can be no Jews in 'Palestine'" and that is a morally unacceptable position to take. Especially when it has yet to be determined where this 'Palestine' will be.

However, for Israel to say to its own people -- you can not build there, it is for your own safety. THAT might be justifiable.

This is a situation that Israel also faces. In the minds of many in Israel, including those in the government, it is getting harder and harder to justify the continued danger of having a hostile population live among them. (If the point of terrorism is to induce fear -- the Arab Muslim Palestinians have done a mighty fine job of it. Its just not having the intended results. Instead of causing the Israelis to capitulate, it is strengthening their resolve to ensure "Never Again" means just that.)

Then question then, for those who care to indulge me, is whether or not it might be justified, for the safety of both the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinians, to separate them physically.

Ethnic cleansing might have had a good effect for some eventually, but it's a bit like the ends justifies the means. For many it was a horrible tragic uprooting from ancient communities, families and ties.

The issue I have with the settlements is that it directly effects the possibility of there ever being a multi-state solution and that is what I'm thinking is the purpose. I don't think Netanyahu has any desire for a multi-state solution. The Palestinians no longer believe it's possible.


Your question is a very difficult one for me to answer. I find forced population transfers of any kind abhorant - so many have been tragic, whether it's what Stalin did in the USSR, Arab expulsions of Jews, expulsions of Palestinians, the Turkish expulsion (and genocide) of the Armenians, the many expulsions of native American peoples. So often those that end up being expelled do not land on their feet, they end up in permanently reduced circumstances in marginal areas and alien cultures.

It would be hard for me to accept unvoluntary transfers as a solution.

The Palestinians you refer to are decendents of immigrants who flocked to Israel for jobs in the 40's and 50's.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Samaria and Judea, where Israel is trying to subsume bits and pieces at a time through unlawful confiscation, are both in the West Bank area ceded to the Palestinians' by Jordan

When did Jordan cede land to the Palestinians? Link?

It's history you lazy dumb ****! Ask someone to help you use Google if your are that ******* ignorant! Do your own damn work, dummy!

It's history you lazy dumb ****!

History that you made up. DERP!

It's history you lazy dumb ****!

History that you made up. DERP!

It's history, of which you are ignorant and unwilling to look up and find for yourself. If you were at all knowledgeable of the intifada in 1988 and King Hussein's actions of the time you wouldn't be appearing so bloody STUPID and IGNORANT!

There were no borders created. Palestine needs to go back to Jordan.

There were no borders created. Palestine needs to go back to Jordan.

You don't know what the **** you're talking about either! So many dummies create so many unnecessary responses!

Of which uncreated borders are you speaking to and what does that have to do with King Hussein of Jordan ceding the West Bank to the Palestinians, shit for brains?

Yes I do but you're one dumb, gullible, propaganda believing idiot.

Why Jordan Doesn't Want More Palestinians

 

[Coyote]

I'll add one thing to my post #20 above. IF you believe that the Palestinians are incapable (due to their irrational fears of Jews) of safely and equally incorporating Jews into their population -- then I would agree that a multi-state solution is not possible. But then I would have to question the wisdom of permitting such a xenophobic nation to come into being.

Is ethnic cleansing right? At any point by anyone?

Ethnic cleansing is never right. The problem is that sometimes it is effective. Especially in social groups which have irrational ideas about other groups, it can be effective in reducing tension and conflict. It can be effective in protecting people. And that might, just might, make it genuinely justifiable in some cases.

The ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the ME, for example, had a protective effect -- it protected the Jewish people and all their descendants from harm that might have come to them in the ME countries that would likely still be on-going today. The ethnic cleansing of the Jewish people from Yemen had a protective effect. The separation of India and Pakistan had a protective effect (fighting is largely contained to border areas if I understand correctly).

I don't believe it is morally correct to restrict Jewish settlements or remove Jewish settlements based on ethnicity. No matter how you color that one it remains nothing more than the argument "there can be no Jews in 'Palestine'" and that is a morally unacceptable position to take. Especially when it has yet to be determined where this 'Palestine' will be.

However, for Israel to say to its own people -- you can not build there, it is for your own safety. THAT might be justifiable.

This is a situation that Israel also faces. In the minds of many in Israel, including those in the government, it is getting harder and harder to justify the continued danger of having a hostile population live among them. (If the point of terrorism is to induce fear -- the Arab Muslim Palestinians have done a mighty fine job of it. Its just not having the intended results. Instead of causing the Israelis to capitulate, it is strengthening their resolve to ensure "Never Again" means just that.)

Then question then, for those who care to indulge me, is whether or not it might be justified, for the safety of both the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinians, to separate them physically.

Ethnic cleansing might have had a good effect for some eventually, but it's a bit like the ends justifies the means. For many it was a horrible tragic uprooting from ancient communities, families and ties.

The issue I have with the settlements is that it directly effects the possibility of there ever being a multi-state solution and that is what I'm thinking is the purpose. I don't think Netanyahu has any desire for a multi-state solution. The Palestinians no longer believe it's possible.


Your question is a very difficult one for me to answer. I find forced population transfers of any kind abhorant - so many have been tragic, whether it's what Stalin did in the USSR, Arab expulsions of Jews, expulsions of Palestinians, the Turkish expulsion (and genocide) of the Armenians, the many expulsions of native American peoples. So often those that end up being expelled do not land on their feet, they end up in permanently reduced circumstances in marginal areas and alien cultures.

It would be hard for me to accept unvoluntary transfers as a solution.

The Palestinians you refer to are decendents of immigrants who flocked to Israel for jobs in the 40's and 50's.

That's already been debunked. If you're trying to claim that the land was empty accept for Jews until the '40's, historical records don't support that.

Are you calling for involuntary transfers as a solution?

 

[Coyote]

Are you supporting forced population transfers?

No. I oppose use of force under any pretext. However I do believe Israel should help those Palestinians who hate Israel to leave by working with the surrounding Arab countries to offer some incentive to them to allow those Palestinians to live elsewhere where they will be dealt with by their own Arab brothers.

And if they don't want to leave, but instead want to establish their own state?

On what land? Israel gained the West Bank when the Islamos lost their war of aggression.

So...what exactly are you advocating be done? All Palestinians living there who wish to remain become full Israeli citizens if they wish?

Any Palestinian wishing to take an oath to become an Israeli has always been welcome. 1/3 of Israeli citizens are arab.
Those that chose not to should be removed from Israeli land.

You mean from the land currently designated as Occupied Territory? Removed to where? Someone has to be willing to take them since you are advocating forced expulsions.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

It's history you lazy dumb ****! Ask someone to help you use Google if your are that ******* ignorant! Do your own damn work, dummy!

It's history you lazy dumb ****!

History that you made up. DERP!

It's history you lazy dumb ****!

History that you made up. DERP!

It's history, of which you are ignorant and unwilling to look up and find for yourself. If you were at all knowledgeable of the intifada in 1988 and King Hussein's actions of the time you wouldn't be appearing so bloody STUPID and IGNORANT!

There were no borders created. Palestine needs to go back to Jordan.

There were no borders created. Palestine needs to go back to Jordan.

You don't know what the **** you're talking about either! So many dummies create so many unnecessary responses!

Of which uncreated borders are you speaking to and what does that have to do with King Hussein of Jordan ceding the West Bank to the Palestinians, shit for brains?

Yes I do but you're one dumb, gullible, propaganda believing idiot.

Why Jordan Doesn't Want More Palestinians

Yes I do but you're one dumb, gullible, propaganda believing idiot.

Why Jordan Doesn't Want More Palestinians

GAWD DAMN you're a ******* imbecile!!!! That dated article has NOTHING TO DO with Jordan CEDING the West Bank territories to the Palestinians in 1988. You are bereft of any knowledge regarding that action then along with their position re: the Palestinian question then as opposed to now thirty years later, shit for brains!

 

[Weatherman2020]

I'll add one thing to my post #20 above. IF you believe that the Palestinians are incapable (due to their irrational fears of Jews) of safely and equally incorporating Jews into their population -- then I would agree that a multi-state solution is not possible. But then I would have to question the wisdom of permitting such a xenophobic nation to come into being.

Is ethnic cleansing right? At any point by anyone?

Ethnic cleansing is never right. The problem is that sometimes it is effective. Especially in social groups which have irrational ideas about other groups, it can be effective in reducing tension and conflict. It can be effective in protecting people. And that might, just might, make it genuinely justifiable in some cases.

The ethnic cleansing of the Jews from the ME, for example, had a protective effect -- it protected the Jewish people and all their descendants from harm that might have come to them in the ME countries that would likely still be on-going today. The ethnic cleansing of the Jewish people from Yemen had a protective effect. The separation of India and Pakistan had a protective effect (fighting is largely contained to border areas if I understand correctly).

I don't believe it is morally correct to restrict Jewish settlements or remove Jewish settlements based on ethnicity. No matter how you color that one it remains nothing more than the argument "there can be no Jews in 'Palestine'" and that is a morally unacceptable position to take. Especially when it has yet to be determined where this 'Palestine' will be.

However, for Israel to say to its own people -- you can not build there, it is for your own safety. THAT might be justifiable.

This is a situation that Israel also faces. In the minds of many in Israel, including those in the government, it is getting harder and harder to justify the continued danger of having a hostile population live among them. (If the point of terrorism is to induce fear -- the Arab Muslim Palestinians have done a mighty fine job of it. Its just not having the intended results. Instead of causing the Israelis to capitulate, it is strengthening their resolve to ensure "Never Again" means just that.)

Then question then, for those who care to indulge me, is whether or not it might be justified, for the safety of both the Jewish people and the Arab Palestinians, to separate them physically.

Ethnic cleansing might have had a good effect for some eventually, but it's a bit like the ends justifies the means. For many it was a horrible tragic uprooting from ancient communities, families and ties.

The issue I have with the settlements is that it directly effects the possibility of there ever being a multi-state solution and that is what I'm thinking is the purpose. I don't think Netanyahu has any desire for a multi-state solution. The Palestinians no longer believe it's possible.


Your question is a very difficult one for me to answer. I find forced population transfers of any kind abhorant - so many have been tragic, whether it's what Stalin did in the USSR, Arab expulsions of Jews, expulsions of Palestinians, the Turkish expulsion (and genocide) of the Armenians, the many expulsions of native American peoples. So often those that end up being expelled do not land on their feet, they end up in permanently reduced circumstances in marginal areas and alien cultures.

It would be hard for me to accept unvoluntary transfers as a solution.

The Palestinians you refer to are decendents of immigrants who flocked to Israel for jobs in the 40's and 50's.

That's already been debunked. If you're trying to claim that the land was empty accept for Jews until the '40's, historical records don't support that.

Are you calling for involuntary transfers as a solution?

“….. A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds… a silent mournful expanse…. a desolation…. we never saw a human being on the whole route…. hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country.”
- Mark Twain, visiting Israel.

I can show you dozens of photos and drawings to validate his statement.

The arabs immigrated there to gain work when Jews started to turn the land profitable.

 

[Shusha]

But here is the issue: do you honestly think Israel will cede any settlement blocks to a Palestinian state?

Large settlement blocs near the Green Line? No. Jerusalem? No. Little outposts in the heart of Palestine? Yes. As long as their safety is assured. Arab majority areas of now-Israel? Yes. (All this contingent on the Palestinians actually willing to negotiate in good faith and live in peace with their Jewish neighbors). A Palestinian state is not contingent upon owning the land of those particular settlement blocs.

Do you think the inhabitents of those settlements (which I think are homogeniously Jewish) would be willing to become members of a Palestinian state

Some will. Some won't. Those who won't will not need much incentive to move.

and accept Palestinians as part of their community?

Of course. This is a directly a result of the conflict and the success of terrorism. Once those threats are removed, Israel has already amply demonstrated its ability to live in peace with Arabs Muslims.

Do you think the Palestinians will accept settlements populated by Jews into their state?

No. I don't. I think the Arab Muslim Palestinians, generally, have an irrational ideology about Jews. What is more troubling to me is that the international community ALSO don't think that Palestinians should accept settlements of Jews into a Palestinian state. And I think this is the roadblock, not only to peace but to a hate-free world.

I think the entire idea of settlements being an obstacle to peace is a Palestinian red herring meant to distract from the real issue -- which is "make the Jews go away".

 

[Weatherman2020]

No. I oppose use of force under any pretext. However I do believe Israel should help those Palestinians who hate Israel to leave by working with the surrounding Arab countries to offer some incentive to them to allow those Palestinians to live elsewhere where they will be dealt with by their own Arab brothers.

And if they don't want to leave, but instead want to establish their own state?

On what land? Israel gained the West Bank when the Islamos lost their war of aggression.

So...what exactly are you advocating be done? All Palestinians living there who wish to remain become full Israeli citizens if they wish?

Any Palestinian wishing to take an oath to become an Israeli has always been welcome. 1/3 of Israeli citizens are arab.
Those that chose not to should be removed from Israeli land.

You mean from the land currently designated as Occupied Territory? Removed to where? Someone has to be willing to take them since you are advocating forced expulsions.

Designating the West Bank as occupied is like designating California or the Rhine River Valley as occupied.

If people do not wish to abide by civilized laws, they must be removed from civilization.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Is it legally, technically their land (as opposed to simply claiming it is theirs?) I know Palestine CLAIMS it's theirs and wants it back.

(This also goes back to 2 old adages - "Don't start a war you can't win' and 'To the victor goes the spoils'.)

The settlements are considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes .....

UN condemns Israel's West Bank settlement plans - BBC News

There is no international law under which Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria are illegal. In fact, there is no rational basis for considering them illegitimate in any way or obstacles to to a final status agreement.

The UN cannot enforce much of anything without our support. We walked a tight rope so far because God put all our oil under Muslim controlled deserts.

Israel proves might makes right. But remember a sword cuts two ways.

Living on Borrowed Time

The oil belongs to whoever had the superior intelligence to invent oil-drilling technology. Bright makes right. Unintelligent races have long overstayed their evolutionary expiration date.

 

[Shusha]

You mean from the land currently designated as Occupied Territory? Removed to where? Someone has to be willing to take them since you are advocating forced expulsions.

Its an interesting moral question. Should a nation be forced to maintain a hostile population? What are the alternatives?

 

[Coyote]

You mean from the land currently designated as Occupied Territory? Removed to where? Someone has to be willing to take them since you are advocating forced expulsions.

Its an interesting moral question. Should a nation be forced to maintain a hostile population? What are the alternatives?

It's a complicated question because the nation in question would be taking land it won in a war and held and that land was populated.

The only alternative I see is multiple states.

 

[Shusha]

You mean from the land currently designated as Occupied Territory? Removed to where? Someone has to be willing to take them since you are advocating forced expulsions.

I don't think it is useful at this level of discussion and at this extent of the conflict to label any territory as "occupied". There is Israel self-governed land. There is Palestinian self-governed land. There is disputed territory bordering these. It would be much more useful to be more specific when designating particular territory.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Is it legally, technically their land (as opposed to simply claiming it is theirs?) I know Palestine CLAIMS it's theirs and wants it back.

(This also goes back to 2 old adages - "Don't start a war you can't win' and 'To the victor goes the spoils'.)

The settlements are considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes .....

UN condemns Israel's West Bank settlement plans - BBC News

There is no international law under which Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria are illegal. In fact, there is no rational basis for considering them illegitimate in any way or obstacles to to a final status agreement.

The UN cannot enforce much of anything without our support. We walked a tight rope so far because God put all our oil under Muslim controlled deserts.

Israel proves might makes right. But remember a sword cuts two ways.

That was the 70s and 80s, we now have enough oil that we barely need the camel fuckers. There power over us is gone!


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Gentle Degenerates

They had power over us only because we refused to use our overwhelming power over them. When a giant lets himself get pushed around by a pygmy, that giant has a Death Wish and will not survive much longer.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

wrong again------no "borders" were fixed either before or after 1967. In 1967---CEASE FIRE lines were created-----not borders. DA ARABS DID NOT RECOGNIZE BORDERS

In that case, you should inform all the map makers to stop drawing those borders on the maps they produce!

Samaria and Judea, where Israel is trying to subsume bits and pieces at a time through unlawful confiscation, are both in the West Bank area ceded to the Palestinians' by Jordan and that BORDER between the West bank and Israel is the 1949 armistice line. Israel has NO SOVEREIGN CLAIM to the West Bank. The West Bank was part of the former Palestine until 1949 then it was occupied by Jordan before the conclusion of the 1949 conflict and eventually ceded to the Palestinian Authority and at the close of the 6 Days War resumed its status as the BORDER as original established by the UN in 1949.

The fact that Israel never made a formal declaration of THEIR borders since gaining recognition in 1948 is being used by Israel now and in the past for their expansionism. Because Israel wants to employ the sophistry of no borders does not mean other nations and sovereign entities must accept that irrational horseshit, NOR that some on a message board should be pushing that failed and foolish proposition in this era!

border -
noun
1. the part or edge of a surface or area that forms its outer boundary.
2. the line that separates one country, state, province, etc., from another; frontier line.
3. the district or region that lies along the boundary line of another.
the definition of border

Samaria and Judea, where Israel is trying to subsume bits and pieces at a time through unlawful confiscation, are both in the West Bank area ceded to the Palestinians' by Jordan

When did Jordan cede land to the Palestinians? Link?

It's history you lazy dumb ****! Ask someone to help you use Google if your are that ******* ignorant! Do your own damn work, dummy!

It's history you lazy dumb ****!

History that you made up. DERP!

It's history you lazy dumb ****!

History that you made up. DERP!

It's history, of which you are ignorant and unwilling to look up and find for yourself. If you were at all knowledgeable of the intifada in 1988 and King Hussein's actions of the time you wouldn't be appearing so bloody STUPID and IGNORANT!

It's history, of which you are ignorant and unwilling to look up and find for yourself.

Then all you have to do to make me look silly and stupid is post proof that it happened.

I'll wait for your proof. Pointing and laughing at you.

 

[Coyote]

You mean from the land currently designated as Occupied Territory? Removed to where? Someone has to be willing to take them since you are advocating forced expulsions.

I don't think it is useful at this level of discussion and at this extent of the conflict to label any territory as "occupied". There is Israel self-governed land. There is Palestinian self-governed land. There is disputed territory bordering these. It would be much more useful to be more specific when designating particular territory.

I'm not so sure because you are talking about native populations residing within those areas.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You mean from the land currently designated as Occupied Territory? Removed to where? Someone has to be willing to take them since you are advocating forced expulsions.

Its an interesting moral question. Should a nation be forced to maintain a hostile population? What are the alternatives?

I understand Syria has experienced a significant population decrease making a lot of housing available.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's history you lazy dumb ****!

History that you made up. DERP!

It's history you lazy dumb ****!

History that you made up. DERP!

It's history, of which you are ignorant and unwilling to look up and find for yourself. If you were at all knowledgeable of the intifada in 1988 and King Hussein's actions of the time you wouldn't be appearing so bloody STUPID and IGNORANT!

There were no borders created. Palestine needs to go back to Jordan.

There were no borders created. Palestine needs to go back to Jordan.

You don't know what the **** you're talking about either! So many dummies create so many unnecessary responses!

Of which uncreated borders are you speaking to and what does that have to do with King Hussein of Jordan ceding the West Bank to the Palestinians, shit for brains?

Yes I do but you're one dumb, gullible, propaganda believing idiot.

Why Jordan Doesn't Want More Palestinians

Yes I do but you're one dumb, gullible, propaganda believing idiot.

Why Jordan Doesn't Want More Palestinians

GAWD DAMN you're a ******* imbecile!!!! That dated article has NOTHING TO DO with Jordan CEDING the West Bank territories to the Palestinians in 1988. You are bereft of any knowledge regarding that action then along with their position re: the Palestinian question then as opposed to now thirty years later, shit for brains!

That dated article has NOTHING TO DO with Jordan CEDING the West Bank territories to the Palestinians in 1988.

Jordan didn't hold the West Bank in 1988, so how could they cede something they didn't hold?

 

[Avatar4321]

Is it legally, technically their land (as opposed to simply claiming it is theirs?) I know Palestine CLAIMS it's theirs and wants it back.

(This also goes back to 2 old adages - "Don't start a war you can't win' and 'To the victor goes the spoils'.)

The settlements are considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes .....

UN condemns Israel's West Bank settlement plans - BBC News

How dare those Jews build homes in Judea! It clearly is not theirs.