Erasing Southern Pride: U.S. Army War College Removing Confederate Generals Portraits

[JakeStarkey]

However you left out one detail, Blacks welling to take up arms and defend the south.

Yes, freed blacks and mulatto Creoles of the LA Native Guard did in fact take up arms for the South, although, they didn't really see combat. They benefitted from the slave based plantation economy. Many owned land, slaves, and enjoyed privileges beyond that of typical mulatto and blacks of other areas of the South. Why wouldn't they take up arms? They had a vested interest in maintaining and defending their economic and political way of life. This is why the Native Guard is an outlier in Confederate history. After the Civil War the Creoles and freed persons of color who were free before the war got a major demotion in status.

With the exception of a few I was told that the free Black slave owners frequently bought family and friends since it was illegal for the slaves to be freed. There was a family in LA that became the largest slave owners around but they were all family and friends. More proof that Black people outsmarted rednecks at their own game.

Need some documentation for that. I would imagine the Chattel Property registers in the Parish court houses would offer some insight on that assertion.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I think what you are missing is that some southerners wish to return to that lifestyle. Why else would you wage a war and generations later still have people wishing the south would return to "glory"?

Are you projecting? Yes I say you are.

Do you know what projecting means?

I have been a member here a few years so yes I know what t means.
Now why are you projecting?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

However you left out one detail, Blacks welling to take up arms and defend the south.

Yes, freed blacks and mulatto Creoles of the LA Native Guard did in fact take up arms for the South, although, they didn't really see combat. They benefitted from the slave based plantation economy. Many owned land, slaves, and enjoyed privileges beyond that of typical mulatto and blacks of other areas of the South. Why wouldn't they take up arms? They had a vested interest in maintaining and defending their economic and political way of life. This is why the Native Guard is an outlier in Confederate history. After the Civil War the Creoles and freed persons of color who were free before the war got a major demotion in status.

With the exception of a few I was told that the free Black slave owners frequently bought family and friends since it was illegal for the slaves to be freed. There was a family in LA that became the largest slave owners around but they were all family and friends. More proof that Black people outsmarted rednecks at their own game.

Did the slaves own property?

 

[Asclepias]

Are you projecting? Yes I say you are.

Do you know what projecting means?

I have been a member here a few years so yes I know what t means.
Now why are you projecting?

There are plenty of illiterate people on here you included. Why would membership prove you know what projecting is?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Louisiana Native Guard were Mulatto Creole and Free persons of color. The nature of Louisiana having been both a French and Spanish colony before the Louisiana Purchase made for very wealthy Creoles and freed blacks (many who were slave owners themselves) who had all of the best Mississippi River adjacent farm land before US expansion. They were educated, they were sophisticated, they were landowners, and many were slave owners. In any case, I don't believe the Native Guard actually saw combat. However, comparing the Native Guard to other racially non-white Confederates is like comparing apples to oranges.

However you left out one detail, Blacks welling to take up arms and defend the south.

Yes, freed blacks and mulatto Creoles of the LA Native Guard did in fact take up arms for the South, although, they didn't really see combat. They benefitted from the slave based plantation economy. Many owned land, slaves, and enjoyed privileges beyond that of typical mulatto and blacks of other areas of the South. Why wouldn't they take up arms? They had a vested interest in maintaining and defending their economic and political way of life. This is why the Native Guard is an outlier in Confederate history. After the Civil War the Creoles and freed persons of color who were free before the war got a major demotion in status in Louisiana.

If they didn't see combat why were they considered POW'S when captured?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Do you know what projecting means?

I have been a member here a few years so yes I know what t means.
Now why are you projecting?

There are plenty of illiterate people on here you included. Why would membership prove you know what projecting is?

Maybe you don't realize that you are projecting, maybe that's your problem.

 

[Publius1787]

However you left out one detail, Blacks welling to take up arms and defend the south.

Yes, freed blacks and mulatto Creoles of the LA Native Guard did in fact take up arms for the South, although, they didn't really see combat. They benefitted from the slave based plantation economy. Many owned land, slaves, and enjoyed privileges beyond that of typical mulatto and blacks of other areas of the South. Why wouldn't they take up arms? They had a vested interest in maintaining and defending their economic and political way of life. This is why the Native Guard is an outlier in Confederate history. After the Civil War the Creoles and freed persons of color who were free before the war got a major demotion in status.

With the exception of a few I was told that the free Black slave owners frequently bought family and friends since it was illegal for the slaves to be freed. There was a family in LA that became the largest slave owners around but they were all family and friends. More proof that Black people outsmarted rednecks at their own game.

The slave codes in Louisiana were initially much different than that of the rest of the South. As I said, they were educated, sophisticated, and a major part of the planter class growing everything from sugar to cotton. Manumission was common in French/Spanish LA and this continued after the LA purchase. In any case, black and mulatto Creole slave owners bought plenty of chattel slave labor and worked them as any white plantation owner would. I forget the year that the states started to make manumission illegal though and at what time each enacted such laws. In any case, if they were buying up family members then it was with the blessing of the master who knew what was going on. Thus, "outsmarting rednecks" needs to be changed to "with the blessing of rednecks." Though, I would hardly call the planter class redneck.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Unless you have proof and was there it was a hack job. Lets put your proof up against mine. Do I have to hand you your ass again? Just say the word.

Unless you were there shut the **** up.

Thats good enough.

That photo is something the beat down confederates cling to in justifying their cause and even that is fake.

Black Union Soldiers - Louisiana Native Guard - Photo Falsification

Circumstantial evidence alone raises the suspicion that the Louisiana Native Guards photo purchased from confederate flags, confederate clothing, rebel stickers featured at www.RebelStore.com (Figure 4) is a fabrication. Given the enormous number of publications and known photographs of Civil War soldiers, it is more than slightly curious that a photograph as striking as one showing armed black soldiers in the Confederate Army has apparently not surfaced in these publications, in the many books and websites devoted to Civil War imagery, or even in the enormous Civil War collections of the Prints and Photographs Division of the Library of Congress. [11] Moreover, several historians and specialists on the Civil War we consulted could not recall having seen this specific photograph of “1st Louisiana Native Guard 1861” in any publication while, at the same time, it is known that photographs such as the one shown in Figure 1 were used to make recruitment posters for the Union army.

Camp William Penn: 1863-1865
The image is stamped 1861
Are you done now?

 

[Asclepias]

Unless you were there shut the **** up.

Thats good enough.

That photo is something the beat down confederates cling to in justifying their cause and even that is fake.

Black Union Soldiers - Louisiana Native Guard - Photo Falsification

Circumstantial evidence alone raises the suspicion that the Louisiana Native Guards photo purchased from confederate flags, confederate clothing, rebel stickers featured at www.RebelStore.com (Figure 4) is a fabrication. Given the enormous number of publications and known photographs of Civil War soldiers, it is more than slightly curious that a photograph as striking as one showing armed black soldiers in the Confederate Army has apparently not surfaced in these publications, in the many books and websites devoted to Civil War imagery, or even in the enormous Civil War collections of the Prints and Photographs Division of the Library of Congress. [11] Moreover, several historians and specialists on the Civil War we consulted could not recall having seen this specific photograph of “1st Louisiana Native Guard 1861” in any publication while, at the same time, it is known that photographs such as the one shown in Figure 1 were used to make recruitment posters for the Union army.

Camp William Penn: 1863-1865
The image is stamped 1861
Are you done now?

If your done denying it was a fake. Are you?

 

[Asclepias]

Yes, freed blacks and mulatto Creoles of the LA Native Guard did in fact take up arms for the South, although, they didn't really see combat. They benefitted from the slave based plantation economy. Many owned land, slaves, and enjoyed privileges beyond that of typical mulatto and blacks of other areas of the South. Why wouldn't they take up arms? They had a vested interest in maintaining and defending their economic and political way of life. This is why the Native Guard is an outlier in Confederate history. After the Civil War the Creoles and freed persons of color who were free before the war got a major demotion in status.

With the exception of a few I was told that the free Black slave owners frequently bought family and friends since it was illegal for the slaves to be freed. There was a family in LA that became the largest slave owners around but they were all family and friends. More proof that Black people outsmarted rednecks at their own game.

The slave codes in Louisiana were initially much different than that of the rest of the South. As I said, they were educated, sophisticated, and a major part of the planter class growing everything from sugar to cotton. Manumission was common in French/Spanish LA and this continued after the LA purchase. In any case, black and mulatto Creole slave owners bought plenty of chattel slave labor and worked them as any white plantation owner would. I forget the year that the states started to make manumission illegal though and at what time each enacted such laws. In any case, if they were buying up family members then it was with the blessing of the master who knew what was going on. Thus, "outsmarting rednecks" needs to be changed to "with the blessing of rednecks." Though, I would hardly call the planter class redneck.

I'm not denying there were Black slave owners. We have some operating right now present day.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Thats good enough.

That photo is something the beat down confederates cling to in justifying their cause and even that is fake.

Black Union Soldiers - Louisiana Native Guard - Photo Falsification

Camp William Penn: 1863-1865
The image is stamped 1861
Are you done now?

If your done denying it was a fake. Are you?

The image is not fake

 

[Asclepias]

Camp William Penn: 1863-1865
The image is stamped 1861
Are you done now?

If your done denying it was a fake. Are you?

The image is not fake

The image is a fake if you are claiming that is shows Black confederate soldiers. Are you still doing that or will I need to bury you with more evidence?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yet once again, bigreb's own evidence blows his OP out of the water.

Nothing has been offered at all to suggest that anyone should have any pride in the Old South,

It's gone, good riddance.

 

[Mr Natural]

Question, How can something be erased that is inside you?
No one but you can erase the pride you have in something.

Starting and losing a war to prove that you're better than the slaves is nothing to be proud of.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

A letter by a Federal officer:
Col. Giles Smith commanded the First Brigade and Col. T. Kilby Smith, Fifty-fourth Ohio, the Fourth. I communicated to these officers General Sherman's orders and charged Colonel Smith, Fifty-fourth Ohio, specially with the duty of clearing away the road to the crossing and getting it into the best condition for effecting our crossing that he possibly could. The work was vigorously pressed under his immediate supervision and orders, and he devoted himself to it with as much energy and activity as any living man could employ. It had to be prosecuted under the fire of the enemy's sharpshooters, protected as well as the men might be by our skirmishers on the bank, who were ordered to keep up so vigorous a fire that the enemy should not dare to lift their heads above their rifle-pits; but the enemy, and especially their armed negroes, did dare to rise and fire, and did serious execution upon our men. The casualties in the brigade were 11 killed, 40 wounded, and 4 missing; aggregate, 55. Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
D. STUART,
Brigadier-General, Commanding."
Do you know anything about this picture and statue

 

[Publius1787]

With the exception of a few I was told that the free Black slave owners frequently bought family and friends since it was illegal for the slaves to be freed. There was a family in LA that became the largest slave owners around but they were all family and friends. More proof that Black people outsmarted rednecks at their own game.

The slave codes in Louisiana were initially much different than that of the rest of the South. As I said, they were educated, sophisticated, and a major part of the planter class growing everything from sugar to cotton. Manumission was common in French/Spanish LA and this continued after the LA purchase. In any case, black and mulatto Creole slave owners bought plenty of chattel slave labor and worked them as any white plantation owner would. I forget the year that the states started to make manumission illegal though and at what time each enacted such laws. In any case, if they were buying up family members then it was with the blessing of the master who knew what was going on. Thus, "outsmarting rednecks" needs to be changed to "with the blessing of rednecks." Though, I would hardly call the planter class redneck.

I'm not denying there were Black slave owners. We have some operating right now present day.

Yes, the NAACP is definitely in charge of maintaining the modern plantation mentality.

 

[Asclepias]

Yes, freed blacks and mulatto Creoles of the LA Native Guard did in fact take up arms for the South, although, they didn't really see combat. They benefitted from the slave based plantation economy. Many owned land, slaves, and enjoyed privileges beyond that of typical mulatto and blacks of other areas of the South. Why wouldn't they take up arms? They had a vested interest in maintaining and defending their economic and political way of life. This is why the Native Guard is an outlier in Confederate history. After the Civil War the Creoles and freed persons of color who were free before the war got a major demotion in status.

With the exception of a few I was told that the free Black slave owners frequently bought family and friends since it was illegal for the slaves to be freed. There was a family in LA that became the largest slave owners around but they were all family and friends. More proof that Black people outsmarted rednecks at their own game.

Need some documentation for that. I would imagine the Chattel Property registers in the Parish court houses would offer some insight on that assertion.

Still looking for the link I found with that story in it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Estimates of Black Confederate Serving the South


How many black Confederates served the South in combat or direct battlefield support ? The numbers vary wildly from 15,000 to 120,000. The truth remains that nobody has an accurate figure. My estimate is that 65,000 blacks scattered across the entire South followed the Confederate armies from one battlefield to the next from 1861 to 1865. Larger numbers of blacks loyally served the Confederacy, not as soldiers but as employees of the Army, Navy, Confederate government or the individual State governments.


Where does this estimate of 65,000 come from ?

Dr. Steiner, Chief Inspector of the United States Sanitary Commission, observed that Gen. "Stonewall" Jackson's troops in occupation of Frederick, Maryland, in 1862: "Over 3,000 Negroes must be included in this number [Confederate troops]. These were clad in all kinds of uniforms, not only in cast-off or captured United States uniforms, but in coats with Southern buttons, State buttons, etc. These were shabby, but not shabbier or seedier than those worn by white men in the rebel ranks. Most of the Negroes had arms, rifles, muskets, sabers, bowie-knives, dirks, etc.....and were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederate Army."


If we assume Dr. Steiner is somewhat reliable and assume that this 3,000 Negroes of Jackson's troops are a representative number of black Confederates in a typical Confederate fighting force, then we may be able to make a rough calculation. First we must determine how many men were part of Jackson's troops ? If Lee had 50,000, was Jackson's force, 25,000 ? That would be a likely estimate. So then what percentage is 3,000 of 25,000 ? Answer: 12 %. So that would tell us that 12% of Jackson's force was black Confederates. Now, if we assume that Steiner meant 3,000 blacks soldiers in Lee's entire 50,000 force that crossed the Potomac, then the percentage of black Confederates is reduced to 6%. Either way it is calculated, black Confederates were a considerable percentage of the total Confederate fighting force.


To extend this reasoning across the entire Confederate Army, what does this represent ? That depends on the total number of men that served in the CS Army, which is also in itself debatable as muster rolls are notoriously incomplete.


For example, let's use for example the 1,000,000 listed names in Broadfoot's Confederate roster compiled by the National Archives. Yes, there is some repeat names, but let's use that figure as an example. What percentage is 12% ? This would translate to 120,000 black Confederates and half that, 60,000. As such, the 65,000 estimate is not an unreasonable estimate. Debatable ? Yes. Refutable ? Absolutely not. Black Confederates imaginary ? Ridiculous


Could Dr. Steiner have been wrong regarding the numbers ? Yes, absolutely. In fact, many Army officers routinely made mistakes at estimating the enemies numerical strengths. However, the smaller the body of troops one is estimating, the more likely that number is correct. While Steiner failed to accurately estimate Lee's total forces (I recall he estimated 80,000 instead of 50,000), in my opinion, it is unlikely he erred as significantly with a handful of 3,000 black troops. So even if Steiner made an overestimate of 30%, we still are in the range of 40,000 to 80,000.
Black Confederates in the Civil War

 

[Publius1787]

Question, How can something be erased that is inside you?
No one but you can erase the pride you have in something.

Starting and losing a war to prove that you're better than the slaves is nothing to be proud of.

Perhaps the most ignorant quote of the day. Considering the previous posts, that's saying something.

 

[Unkotare]

turd liar,

Do you even know how to read?

Do you need glasses or something?

It seems that LARPing has a detrimental effect on the ability to read.

You made the 100,000 wide spread support for the union in the south claim.
YOU DID THAT.
Now were those 100,000 troops contraband troops?

I have answered that question several times. You are just trolling now, LARPer.