energy

[Old Rocks]

12 may 2011 - CNN - " because gas is so high in price - fewer people are dying on our hiways "

our communist media will do anything to make komrade obama look good

if it were bush - our communist media would b accusing bush of working with the oil companies to rip us off = demokrats will always b demokrats

Horrible... again, I ask... why do you assign yourself to Soviet science? ...

The forum is awaiting your "proof" that oil seeps up from the mantle of the Earth. Can't wait.

Natural Oil Seeps in the Gulf of Mexico
A NASA Earth Observatory news release from February 3, 2009

"Although accidents and hurricane damage to infrastructure are often to blame for oil spills and the resulting pollution in coastal Gulf of Mexico waters, natural seepage from the ocean floor introduces a significant amount of oil to ocean environments as well. Oil spills are notoriously difficult to identify in natural-color (photo-like) satellite images, especially in the open ocean. Because the ocean surface is already so dark blue in these images, the additional darkening or slight color change that results from a spill is usually imperceptible."

Quote from Geology.com

So, what you are saying is that since nature pollutes to a certain extent, that gives us license to pollute to an even greater extent?

 

[American Horse]

Horrible... again, I ask... why do you assign yourself to Soviet science? ...

The forum is awaiting your "proof" that oil seeps up from the mantle of the Earth. Can't wait.

Natural Oil Seeps in the Gulf of Mexico
A NASA Earth Observatory news release from February 3, 2009

"Although accidents and hurricane damage to infrastructure are often to blame for oil spills and the resulting pollution in coastal Gulf of Mexico waters, natural seepage from the ocean floor introduces a significant amount of oil to ocean environments as well. Oil spills are notoriously difficult to identify in natural-color (photo-like) satellite images, especially in the open ocean. Because the ocean surface is already so dark blue in these images, the additional darkening or slight color change that results from a spill is usually imperceptible."

Quote from Geology.com

So, what you are saying is that since nature pollutes to a certain extent, that gives us license to pollute to an even greater extent?

That was not my intent; I was responding to a challenge and a need to set the record straight.

What you are doing is being needlessly petty...

 

[Old Rocks]

The Gold Hypothesis for the formation of oil from methane from the mantle has some basis. However, when the figures are done, the amount is negligable compared to that which is generated from organics formed in the oceans.

And the really big fields, excepting in the Arctic and Antarctic, have all been discovered and are being exploited. Many have already reached their Hubbert peak.

 

[shintao]

the whole world drills for oil ---- amerika builds useless 10th. century wind mills

Lets drill in your back yard, and stick one of those giant pumps back there clacking away 24/7. Want to drill so fucking bad, well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,DRILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol!

 

[Old Rocks]

Windmills are a joke. They had to rig a Cape Cod windmill to run only at a speed that didn't work because the vibration and the hummmmm was driving people crazy. Even at peak efficiency and brand new, windmills are a joke. Solar panels? It would take a football field of solar panels to keep a typical family comfortable. Our socialist president understands the politics behind "alternate" energy. That's why he hired a communist former leader of an arson and looting rampage to be on his "green jobs" panel. Bye the way, where are the "green jobs"?

Here in Oregon, everywhere. Over 1000 of them in just one plant in Hillsboro alone. And we have several other plants in construciton, or allready producing but being expanded. We also have a couple of battery outfits that have located their research facilities here, and are planning to locate their manufacturing plants here when they have the manufacturing process down for their EV batteries.

And then there are the windmills. We are putting them up faster than we can train technicians to work on them. And the jobs start out at about $19 an hour. When they get the new line into Southeastern Oregon, we will see an even greater number of mills put up. With the additional jobs that come with them.

Here in Oregon, there are thousands of 'Green Jobs'. They are just not available for untrained coach potatoes that spend most of their time spreading idiocy on the internet.

SolarWorld reaches 1,000 jobs - Oregon Business

SolarWorld's five-year expansion has ended on target, with the company's addition of its 1,000th worker in Hillsboro.

German-based SolarWorld bought its Hillsboro location in 2007, where it now produces silicon crystal, solar wafers, photovoltaic cells and solar panels.

The Hillsboro site is now the largest solar manufacturing plant in the U.S.

"Our goals here were straightforward: to tool up annual production capacity to 500 megawatts at the U.S. sites and hire 1,000 workers in Hillsboro by 2011," said Bob Beisner, managing director and vice president of the U.S. operations, in a statement.


Read more: SolarWorld reaches 1,000 jobs - Oregon Business SolarWorld reaches 1,000 jobs - Oregon Business

 

[RGR]

And the really big fields, excepting in the Arctic and Antarctic, have all been discovered and are being exploited. Many have already reached their Hubbert peak.

Methinks you doth forget big chunks of Africa. And Russia.

And only 25% of the worlds oil producing country production profiles can be confused with a "Hubbert peak" versus all the double peaks, triple peaks, peaks followed by fallow periods followed by yet more peaks.

 

[Mr. H.]

the whole world drills for oil ---- amerika builds useless 10th. century wind mills

Lets drill in your back yard, and stick one of those giant pumps back there clacking away 24/7. Want to drill so fucking bad, well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,DRILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol!

At an average royalty of 12.5% fuck yeah bring it on. The vast majority of the nearly half-million oil and gas wells in this country are in rural stettings - situated on farmland. The royalty income is a critical supplement especially to the smaller marginally profitable farms.

 

[konradv]

Here's a thought, instead of improving on 10th century technology why not try exploiting the oil reserves under our control in the Gulf of Mexico instead of selling them to Russia and Venezuela? Why not create jobs and open a tiny portion of ANWAR to American companies instead of supporting (Soros invested) Brazil oil? Why in the world would an American president tell a foreign oil producer "we want to be your best costomer" while referring to the US Chamber of Commerce as a sinsiter tool of the GOP? I'll answer that. The "greenie" movement is a conglomerate of the burned out hippies, the modern idealistic ignorant yuppies and the political movement dedicated to the destruction of the United States as we know it. Democrats have prevented the US from being independent of foreign oil for decades. The radicals, the ignorant and the hypocrites complain that America is somehow "unfair" in it's energy consumption while they enjoy the benefits of the greatest Country in the world. There is no substitute for fossil fuel and the lefties who tell you that the US needs to be brought down to the level of a 3rd world country are fools and traitors.

19th century technology is hardly the long term answer. We're never going to be oil-independent, no matter how much we drill. The answer isn't 20th century technology(nuclear), either. We need to step into the 21st century and create a program like the Space Race to cut down the estimated 40-50 year timeline predicted for the development of a fusion power system. For more info go to:

ITER - the way to new energy OR

Department of Energy - Fusion

 

[Old Rocks]

the whole world drills for oil ---- amerika builds useless 10th. century wind mills

Lets drill in your back yard, and stick one of those giant pumps back there clacking away 24/7. Want to drill so fucking bad, well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,DRILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol!

At an average royalty of 12.5% fuck yeah bring it on. The vast majority of the nearly half-million oil and gas wells in this country are in rural stettings - situated on farmland. The royalty income is a critical supplement especially to the smaller marginally profitable farms.

That same arguement is viable for wind turbines. And they don't negatively affect aquifers.

 

[waltky]

Next war to be in the Arctic?...

'Ice Wars' heating up the Arctic
July 15, 2011 -- Tension is building in the Arctic, where countries are vying for valuable natural resources; More oil, natural gas and mineral deposits can be accessed now because of climate change; There have been territorial disputes over the underwater land where these deposits rest; The Arctic is now seeing naval and military activities it hasn't seen since the Cold War

On a small, floating piece of ice in the Beaufort Sea, several hundred miles north of Alaska, a group of scientists are documenting what some dub an "Arctic meltdown." According to climate scientists, the warming of the region is shrinking the polar ice cap at an alarming rate, reducing the permafrost layer and wreaking havoc on polar bears, arctic foxes and other indigenous wildlife in the region. What is bad for the animals, though, has been good for commerce.

The recession of the sea ice and the reduction in permafrost -- combined with advances in technology -- have allowed access to oil, mineral and natural gas deposits that were previously trapped in the ice. The abundance of these valuable resources and the opportunity to exploit them has created a gold rush-like scramble in the high north, with fierce competition to determine which countries have the right to access the riches of the Arctic.

This competition has brought in its wake a host of naval and military activities that the Arctic hasn't seen since the end of the Cold War. Now, one of the coldest places on Earth is heating up as nuclear submarines, Aegis-class frigates, strategic bombers and a new generation of icebreakers are resuming operations there.

Just how much oil and natural gas is under the Arctic ice?

 

[Cimerian]

God forbid someone should tell you the sad truth. We have 3% of the world's reserves of petroleum, and use 24% of the world's production of oil. Now how do you propose to drill out of that fact?

First of all, about those high speed rail systems:

“High-speed rail is good for society and it’s good for the environment, but it’s not a profitable business,” said Mr. Barrón of the International Union of Railways. He reckons that only two routes in the world — between Tokyo and Osaka, and between Paris and Lyon, France — have broken even.
Spain’s High-Speed Rail Offers Guideposts for U.S. - NYTimes.com

These things are money hogs, they take billions to run and maintain, the building costs are staggering, and they require a hell of a lot of power. Stupid idea for us, I think we'd have to install new tracks for it cuz what we got now won't support high speeds.

Check this out:

Sadly for rail advocates, these claims are largely bogus, says Cox, who believes that rail promoters ignore accounting principles:
In some countries, government payments that would be called subsidies in the United States are called commercial revenues.
In others, high speed rail operators operate over tracks owned by government infrastructure companies, which are likewise subsidized in some cases.
Often, previous write-offs are not a part of the profit equation.
The lack of transparency in accounting practices makes it difficult to make a judgment as to the level of profitability.
Taiwan Today recently characterized the high-speed rail system as "loss-plagued" and noted it was in the process of seeking to restructure its debt.
A principal problem was that less than 90,000 of the 275,000 daily riders projected to use the system bothered to buy tickets.
The stations aren't full of turnstile-hopping commuters; the Taiwanese were either staying at home or using other forms of transportation.
Projecting more passengers than show up is not unusual in high-speed rail, notes Cox:
The Eurostar service from Paris to London attracts less than one-half of the ridership forecast five years ago and has required a government financial bailout.
The new high-speed rail system in Korea is carrying little more than one-half the passengers originally projected.

HIGH SPEED RAIL IS AN UNPROFITABLE TRAIN WRECK


BTW, did you know that solar power company (SolarWorld) in Oregon you're so proud of? You know that company is based in Germany, right?


I propose to increase our oil production and increase our oil shale and natural gas production. I'm okay with renewable sources of energy, but it's gotta be economically feasible, we can't be subsidizing everything, and we can't afford to be paying higher prices to heat or cool our homes. And I think nuclear power should still be on the table, if we can have nuclear powered subs why can't we have nuclear powered cities and towns? The price has gotta be right though, the big spending days are about over. One way or another.

Of course I know that Solar World is based in Germany. However, several other solar companies that are moving into Portland are US based companies. And ReVolt that is establishing it's headquarters here is a Norwegian and Swiss company, intending to make zinc-air EV batteries. And the company that I work for is based in Russia.

Apperantly, you are still living in the '60s. And I remember that time very well. I was in uniform on base when we stopped the Soviet ships off of Cuba. Times have changed. We reached peak oil for this nation in the '70's, whether you like that fact or not. We do not have enough oil to drill our way to independence. Just a fact.

Getting the kerogen out of oil shale requires far too much energy and water for it to be viable.

The reason that we cannot have nuclear powered cities and towns is that the consequences of something going wrong are so great. Until we get something like the thorium reactors, that would 'burn' present waste, nobody is going to back nuclear again. Three Mile Island, and the disaster in Japan has taught us a hard and expensive lesson.

Do the present airports in this nation make a profit? Who paid for their construction, and was it paid back with a profit? High speed rail is an economical substitute for much of the air traffic today.

I'm sorry but how do you determine we have reached peak oil in the 70s? If this were true companies would not be spending billions on exploration of new oil wells. They would not be building exploratory wells. Sorry but we do not know how much oil Earth has. We do not know what peak oil even is. The true reason we do not have more nuclear is the hysteria associated with it. Three mile island and the Japanese "disaster" are really nothing when put in true perspective.

 

[RGR]

I'm sorry but how do you determine we have reached peak oil in the 70s?

By looking at global oil production data. Global peak was 1979. It declined, and about 10-15 years later, miraculously, it peaked again! This has happened before, in many places, many countries, and it is a well kept secret of the peaker religion. They certainly don't want it exposed to the general public, who then might ask the question, "If oil can peak multiple times, what are the odds of the current peak being overrun by yet another in the future."

Sorry but we do not know how much oil Earth has.

We have some very good guesses however. The peak religion doesn't want to talk about those either.

 

[RGR]

The Gold Hypothesis for the formation of oil from methane from the mantle has some basis. However, when the figures are done, the amount is negligable compared to that which is generated from organics formed in the oceans.

And the really big fields, excepting in the Arctic and Antarctic, have all been discovered and are being exploited. Many have already reached their Hubbert peak.

Hubbert's concept is not one of individual field production, but of large numbers of fields aggregated together. Field production is most certainly not defined by a peak profile but by the design of the infrastructure and speed of development. And aggregations can peak multiple times, therefore any one peak is pretty insignificant.

And Africa Old Rocks, no one can say that is particularly well explored, or the Laptev sea, and large chunks of onshore Russia are still more than a little mysterious.

Fortunately, most new oil discoveries come from the same old oil discoveries, so we know how many more trillions of recoverable barrels we have without actually having to find anything new.

 

[konradv]

I'm sorry but how do you determine we have reached peak oil in the 70s?

By looking at global oil production data. Global peak was 1979. It declined, and about 10-15 years later, miraculously, it peaked again! This has happened before, in many places, many countries, and it is a well kept secret of the peaker religion. They certainly don't want it exposed to the general public, who then might ask the question, "If oil can peak multiple times, what are the odds of the current peak being overrun by yet another in the future."

The odds will become higher and higher as time goes on. We're living on borrowed time with regards to oil and just because we've had multiple peaks, doesn't mean the last one won't be THE LAST ONE.

Oil is finite and the only real answer to the problem is the development of fusion power. We need to set a national goal, like the Space Race, to invest in research and shorten the 40-50 year predicted timeline to a working system. Write your Congresscritters and ask them to invest in our future. For more info go to:

ITER - the way to new energy OR

Department of Energy - Fusion

 

[RGR]

I'm sorry but how do you determine we have reached peak oil in the 70s?

By looking at global oil production data. Global peak was 1979. It declined, and about 10-15 years later, miraculously, it peaked again!

The odds will become higher and higher as time goes on. We're living on borrowed time with regards to oil and just because we've had multiple peaks, doesn't mean the last one won't be THE LAST ONE.

Ultimately you are correct of course. Infinite oil growth won't work in a finite oil environment. Unfortunately, people were predicting the end of oil prior to your grandparents birth, and recycling it every generation or so. Once you learn this, it puts all these claims of running out in a different perspective.

The only real answer is to collect the best people, let them study the problem, and offer up the best estimates. Certainly the religious peak oil twerps don't qualify in this regard. They claim all peaks as though they are THE peak, and move on to the next every time they are proven wrong.

 

[JiggsCasey]

Ultimately you are correct of course. Infinite oil growth won't work in a finite oil environment. Unfortunately, people were predicting the end of oil prior to your grandparents birth, and recycling it every generation or so. Once you learn this, it puts all these claims of running out in a different perspective.

The only real answer is to collect the best people, let them study the problem, and offer up the best estimates. Certainly the religious peak oil twerps don't qualify in this regard. They claim all peaks as though they are THE peak, and move on to the next every time they are proven wrong.

Again, you perpetual liar, barely anyone claimed peak would arrive in the late 70s. The "Limits to Growth" report back then -- if you actually read it rather than take fossil fuel industry talking points as gospel -- pointed to the decade that just passed as the time when peak would hit. Just as Hubbert predicted (always 40 years after peak discovery), and just as it DID hit. Conventional crude production has flat-lined for 6-7 years now. The implosion of world credit markets in the wake of that reality was always inevitable. (oh, but wait... you're not an economist)

The best possible people HAVE studied it, and their unanimous conclusion is that peak is here. That includes a number of entities far smarter than goofy, smarmy you (including our own military brass), and a number of entities who are completely unrelated to one another and have no agenda to forecast such a dire scenario.

If you could name a new discovery of proven, recoverable conventional crude in excess of 30 billion barrels anywhere on God's green Earth the past 30 years, have at it. You seem to have slinked from that challenge some dozen times now since you started your internet trolling campaign.

No one that I know claimed peak would hit all those decades ago. Because everyone I know considers DISCOVERY rates into the equation. Period. They were still discovering massive new oil fields back then, but they're simply not today. Your retarded response to that fact? "Existing fields are magically filling back up!!!!"

So attributing some "chicken little" syndrome to misinformed people back then does not translate to us. Try try as you might. Again, we have a glacier of evidence on our side, from socio-economic to geological to academic. ... You have... shale gas claims.

 

[uscitizen]

the whole world drills for oil ---- amerika builds useless 10th. century wind mills

wind is forever, oil is not.

And we are drilling for oil as well.
do not believe all the lies you hear from the right wingnutz.

 

[RGR]

Again, you perpetual liar, barely anyone claimed peak would arrive in the late 70s.

Jimmy declared we were running out in the late 70's. Much more severe than your nonsense religious beliefs in a peak here, or there, or whatever the newest interpretation of your religion is...plateau?

If you could name a new discovery of proven, recoverable conventional crude in excess of 30 billion barrels anywhere on God's green Earth the past 30 years, have at it.

Only an idiot who doesn't know where the new oil keeps coming from, doesn't know what discovery process modeling is, and is unaware of the works of Arps and Roberts would make a statement this ridiculous. This doesn't even sound like a parroting of yours, more like a make believe. Good for you! Thinking for yourself, even if it consists of a statement this ignorant, is a sign of improvement!

No one that I know claimed peak would hit all those decades ago.

Your ignorance of the geoscience professionals who were doing it before you were born is not in dispute. Neither is your ignorance of the history of your own religion.

 

[TruthSeeker56]

And we spend billions on high speed rail that will cost way more than advertised and will never ever be a paying proposition.

Well, I guess we will just have to have some Europeans show us how they do it.

And of course the solar panels that are made somewhere else.

Really?

Largest Solar Cell Facility in Oregon | Solar Power - PV Panels

In October 2008, the largest solar cell facility in North America was opened in Hillsboro, Oregon. SolarWorld USA now has a plant that will generate 500 megawatts of energy per year by 2011.

More than $500 million have been invested to allow for cell manufacturing equipment and crystal growing. These efforts can be attributed in large part to Governor Ted Kulongoski, the Oregon Department of Energy and the city of Hillsboro
...........................................................................

But God forbid we should drill more oil wells, or allow existing wells to reopen.

God forbid someone should tell you the sad truth. We have 3% of the world's reserves of petroleum, and use 24% of the world's production of oil. Now how do you propose to drill out of that fact?

Really? Are you SURE about that? Read this and weep:

Proven oil reserves are not a measure of future supply of world petroleum. It is a well known fallacy in the petroleum industry to treat them in this way, and it has had serious political consequences.

 

[JiggsCasey]

Only an idiot who doesn't know where the new oil keeps coming from, doesn't know what discovery process modeling is, and is unaware of the works of Arps and Roberts would make a statement this ridiculous. This doesn't even sound like a parroting of yours, more like a make believe. Good for you! Thinking for yourself, even if it consists of a statement this ignorant, is a sign of improvement!

LOL... that's a terribly pretentious way of admitting you can't allude to a single find.

Global discoveries are not keeping up with consumption. Haven't for quite some time now. Just admit you were wrong, and STFU.

Either that, or explain how Jeremy Gilbert et al are somehow misleading us. For what purpose?