education , teaching ?

[sam111]

I am curious who is responsible for creating the tests for elementary/grammer school, middle school , high school, and college level?

Basically GED , SAT/PSAT , GRE / GMAT / LSAT / MCAT ....etc
Are these done from a group of organization or just one.
Who is responsible for what questions will be on the test and what content will be covered on the test?

Question 2
As for other types of test like certification tests like building , or computer , or medical , or engineering.

Are their specific people that make up the questions for those tests. Or is it an organization or a specialist in the field ....?

How would one get the responsibility or job of doing this if he wanted to and had the knowledge?

If one was a teacher for many years and wanted to get into creating tests and certification exams what would one have to do to get in charge of creating the exams.
Assuming he has the proper knowledge in the area under consideration .

 

[editec]

Google is your friend

Scholastic Aptitude Test. Published by Educational Testing Service (ETS), Princeton, NJ, (609) 771-7600. TTY: (609) 882-4118.

 

[sam111]

ok, I was also curious if I wanted to home school my child.
Would all he have to do to get him into a great college is score high on the SAT test. And do well on a GED test?

Is the sat , and ged the only test need to pass/graduate high school from home.

In theory I am going to prepare him better then most of the local schools could around here. Just was concerned of the process involved in getting him into collage ... since he will technically have no highschool transcripts or any school transcripts for that matter.

Only the grades on the tests he needs to take to show the college or is their more stuff we have to do.

 

[RebeccaAGray_85]

It is hard to say. There are many different types on homeschooling. Ideally, he would earn his GED and make good scores on the ACT and/or SAT to be set up to go to a good college. However, some schools are more strict and indecisive with home schooled students. You would have to look into which colleges care and which ones don't.

 

[uscitizen]

I was told by a reputable source that those tests were generated on Gama Theta7.

 

[WorldWatcher]

ok, I was also curious if I wanted to home school my child.
Would all he have to do to get him into a great college is score high on the SAT test. And do well on a GED test?

Is the sat , and ged the only test need to pass/graduate high school from home.

In theory I am going to prepare him better then most of the local schools could around here. Just was concerned of the process involved in getting him into collage ... since he will technically have no highschool transcripts or any school transcripts for that matter.

Only the grades on the tests he needs to take to show the college or is their more stuff we have to do.

You should check your States Department of Education website for it's homeschooling section and probably inquire with the local school system.

Different States may have different requirements regarding homeschooling. For example the link below a parent information handbook for homeschooling.


For example:

"The Code of Virginia reads as follows at § 22.1-254.1.B:
Any parent who elects to provide home instruction in lieu of school attendance shall annually notify the division superintendent in August of his intention to so instruct the child and provide a description of the curriculum to be followed for the coming year…."

and another...

"To comply with § 22.1-254.1 of the Va. Code, the parent is required to submit, by the following August 1, evidence of the child's academic achievement in one of the following ways:

1. Evidence that the child has attained a composite score in or above the fourth stanine on any nationally normed standardized achievement test; or
2. An evaluation or assessment which the school division superintendent determines to indicate that the child is achieving an adequate level of educational growth and progress.​

"​

So even though you homeschool, there may be certain elements of state law that you have to comply with such as curriculum submissions, participation in some type of testing program to show proficiency at various points and on certain subjects (even well before the GED, SAT, type of end of school testing).



http://www.doe.virginia.gov/student...ome_instruction/home_instruction_handbook.pdf


>>>>

 

[sam111]

Thank, you I guess the best way is to read the state and town laws where you live and talk to the States Department of Education.

Question
Assuming I read thru understand, and follow the laws, follow the education department rules. And they approve of the progress and say I am doing well.

The I am only concerned about weather he would have to do anything else other then passing the SAT / GED tests. To get into a good college like Princeton , mit ,...etc.

Basically is their anything else he or I would have to do other then comply with the board of eduation, have him score very well on the sat and ged test.
To get into a good college like Princeton , MIT , Berkeley ,...etc

Or are their any other requirements that could put my child at a disadvantage even if he has above and beyond the knowledge of the regular child in applying to top colleges/universities ?

 

[rdean]

They are created by "elitists". Ask the Republicans.

 

[sam111]

Well, you kind of didn't answer my question.

Assuming my child is smarter and scores higher on the SAT / GED or any other board of education thing they may throw at me.

Would their be any disadvantage in him get into a school like MIT or Princeton over somebody that was not home schooled. (apart from politics or people knowing people)

Would they take somebody with a little lower score that went to school as opposed to somebody that scored higher and was home schooled ?

Basically when he is at the point of sending in his application to MIT , PRINCETON , or other colleges/universities that he wants to potentially go to.

What would they be focused on his grades , weather he actively participated in the community , played sports , voluntaries in working at a company for the summer.

I am just curious what they are really looking for apart from the smartest , most motivated student , nice/kind person, responsible person.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Thank, you I guess the best way is to read the state and town laws where you live and talk to the States Department of Education.

Question (Not trying to get personal, but the answers have an influence on timeline and things that you can do):

1. Do you have children now or are you looking to the future?

2. If you have children how many and how old?

3. Are you in a two parent family and can at least one of you invest the time required to properly homeschool?​

Suggestion:

1. In addition to the State DOE and local district check for local groups for active homeschoolers (the local school district should know who they are) and you may also want to check with local religious organizations which will often provide assistance to homeschooling groups.

2. Contact colleges and universities within driving distance to your home. Either by phone or by personal appointment visit their admissions office for some research on the college application process.

3. Secondly, do some research on the qualify of education in your area and schools that offer a rigorous academic program, their admission rates, the number and types of advanced placement classes/programs, etc. If you live in an area where the schools are not that great, would it be possible to move to an area where the schools are much better.​

Question
Assuming I read thru understand, and follow the laws, follow the education department rules. And they approve of the progress and say I am doing well.

The I am only concerned about weather he would have to do anything else other then passing the SAT / GED tests. To get into a good college like Princeton , mit ,...etc.

Basically is their anything else he or I would have to do other then comply with the board of eduation, have him score very well on the sat and ged test.
To get into a good college like Princeton , MIT , Berkeley ,...etc

Or are their any other requirements that could put my child at a disadvantage even if he has above and beyond the knowledge of the regular child in applying to top colleges/universities ?

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but if you have children and they are older, say high school age – if you are thinking about switching them to homeschool, it’s probably a bad idea.

If you have very young children and have the academic aptitude to homeschool and the resources then homeschooling can be a much better idea.

**************************************

I currently have a Son who is a senior in college and a daughter who is a Junior, so we went through the whole application process not that long ago. Our daughter was very competitive for any school in the country with excellent SAT scores, selection for National, Music, Math, and Spanish Honor Societies, Marching Band, 4-H Community Service, and volunteer teen counselor at a local youth camp over multiple summers.

The impression I’m getting is that you are way to focused on SAT scores as a prerequisite for college. They are important but they are only one aspect of the package.

Colleges like Princeton, MIT, Cornell, Stanford, etc – are interested in the whole student not just a single test score. They are looking for things like:
1. Rigorous academic challenge
2. Community involvement
3. Community service
4. Diverse interests to augment the academics

Academics can be difficult for homeschoolers to document. It takes a lot of work to develop the documentation and participation in homeschool testing programs that verify achievement.

Community involvement and service include are things outside of academics. Strong church program participation, Boy/Girl Scouts, etc.

**************************************

I wouldn’t say homeschooling is a disadvantage, but the reality is that top schools get way more applications then they have room for. Taking Princeton as an example, in 2011 they had 27,189 applicants and only 2,282 were selected – that’s 8.39%. Selection is tough.

Of the admits, the following statistics apply to they secondary education:
Pubic School 58%
Independent Day 20%
Independent Boarding 8.6%
Religious Affiliated 12.6%
Home Schooled 0.6%
Military School 0.2%


Princeton University - Princeton makes offers to 8.39 percent of applicants in record admission cycle
Princeton University | Admission Statistics

>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

Assuming my child is smarter and scores higher on the SAT / GED or any other board of education thing they may throw at me.

Parents always assume their children are smarter and will have higher scores.

Would their be any disadvantage in him get into a school like MIT or Princeton over somebody that was not home schooled. (apart from politics or people knowing people)

Maybe, depends on:

(a) your children,
(b) How well you home school,
(c) How well you document academic rigor in home schooling through documentation and testing,
(d) How well you provide for outside activities to augment pure academics​

Would they take somebody with a little lower score that went to school as opposed to somebody that scored higher and was home schooled ?

Yes. Top schools are looking for more than just a test score.

Basically when he is at the point of sending in his application to MIT , PRINCETON , or other colleges/universities that he wants to potentially go to.

What would they be focused on his grades , weather he actively participated in the community , played sports , voluntaries in working at a company for the summer.

I am just curious what they are really looking for apart from the smartest , most motivated student , nice/kind person, responsible person.

All that. They are looking for "well rounded" students.

When my daughter applied to Princeton she had to do an interview as part of the process. Typically they have alumni all over the country that conduct these interviews, it focused very little on academics. It focused mostly on aptitude, attitude, activities outside of the classroom, etc.


>>>>

 

[sam111]

Well, I agree with everything you said for the most part.
Just was curious of what I had to watch out for or be aware of if I choose to do this.

Since have been in the teaching business all my life so I am not worried that he won't get the proper education.

The problem is I didn't know what it entailed to get into the schools other then following the rules of the DOE.

I think you explained it pretty well.
So for the most part I know who I need to talk to about this.
And maybe I will give the top colleges a call and see what they say interms of what they expect or want.

Liked you statistics link on Princeton. Their isn't to many homeschooled people going their but thats not to say you cann't.

Last Question
I am curious if their is an format or standard way of structuring an application to a college. Or if they all are different.

If you don't mind posting what the application form or application your daughter used that was a success to getting in. That would be a great help

Thanks again

 

[WorldWatcher]

Well, I agree with everything you said for the most part.
Just was curious of what I had to watch out for or be aware of if I choose to do this.

Since have been in the teaching business all my life so I am not worried that he won't get the proper education.

The problem is I didn't know what it entailed to get into the schools other then following the rules of the DOE.

I think you explained it pretty well.
So for the most part I know who I need to talk to about this.
And maybe I will give the top colleges a call and see what they say interms of what they expect or want.

Liked you statistics link on Princeton. Their isn't to many homeschooled people going their but thats not to say you cann't.

Last Question
I am curious if their is an format or standard way of structuring an application to a college. Or if they all are different.

If you don't mind posting what the application form or application your daughter used that was a success to getting in. That would be a great help

Thanks again

Different schools have different application questions. Research the admissions page for the schools you are interested in to get a feel for their process.

Many schools, especially the larger ones, are going with "The Common Application for Undergraduate College Admission". (Link = https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/default.aspx).

This is an online site, most schools may share the same core questions and then each school can have an addendum of individualize questions they want to have.


*****************************

There are whole books on the college admission process. Spend some time at Barnes & Nobles, Books-A-Million, Borders and/or your local library, don't worry about asking for help to get to the right section.

One important point, when you get to that stage is to provide for a backup plan. With application fees it cost us about $700 to apply to 10 schools. Our daughter applied to 10 schools total (5 out of state and 5 in-state). Shoot for the big time, but put 3-4 applications to State schools as a backup. The percentages are pretty low to get into the big boys.



>>>>

 

[sam111]

I have seen a whole section of books right next to the exam book section that covers this application process.

Before I get in depth with the forms which I have looked at a little bit online.
Thanks for your link btw. (has almost all the info I need takes you thru everything may not need a book with this)

One important point, when you get to that stage is to provide for a backup plan. With application fees it cost us about $700 to apply to 10 schools. Our daughter applied to 10 schools total (5 out of state and 5 in-state). Shoot for the big time, but put 3-4 applications to State schools as a backup. The percentages are pretty low to get into the big boys.

Curious though if you know if the application fees are all different or all around the same price per school (of $70 ). And weather their are any other fees or things I have to pay for "just for the getting in process"?

I know if he gets in that is a whole other ball game since I would have to pay
twission each semester , I may have to pay for him to get a physical or medical ok , and I would have to probably pay for his courses/books each semester. (probably going to look into financial aid to)

But would their be anything else I would have to pay for normally?

In your case was it just application fee , twission per semester , physical /medical ok , and her courses/books ? Or was their other things I am missing if I want to fully support all his college fees? (except rent or food )

 

[WorldWatcher]

>


Again, it would be helpful to have some general information for the discussion. Nothing specific about identification of course. I mean what age(s) is your child/children? It helps to have an idea for timeline purposes and what can be done to prepare for the admissions process. If we are talking pre-kindergarten that's one thing, if we are talking Junior in high school then that is completely different.

I have seen a whole section of books right next to the exam book section that covers this application process.

Before I get in depth with the forms which I have looked at a little bit online.
Thanks for your link btw. (has almost all the info I need takes you thru everything may not need a book with this)

I get the impression that you are missing what I've been trying to communicate. To improve the chances of being admitted to a top flight college it's not about filling out some forms, its about researching the overall process and trying to assist your child into developing into a well rounded applicant - test scores and some forms are only a small drop in the bucket.

Curious though if you know if the application fees are all different or all around the same price per school (of $70 ).

If I remember correctly, the lowest application fee was $50, the highest was $90.

And weather their are any other fees or things I have to pay for "just for the getting in process"?

Depending on the situation at the time your child may have a cost associated with taking a PSAT (prep test for the SAT). Then they may need to take the SAT's a second or third time to try to improve scores. I think SATs were about $40 a pop. At the time a student takes the SATs they can designate a few school, 4 maybe 5, where the results can be sent. Extra schools or sending test results after taking the test cost around $10 per school.

My daughter went into college with about 30 college credits based on Advanced Placement classes she took in high school. Each class had a fee to take the AP test which is what colleges use to determine if they will award credit. (Awarding credit is at the discretion of the college or university, it is not guaranteed - though most will award credit for a 4 or 5 on an AP exam for a subject matter).

Part of the process is deciding on what university to apply to to begin with, that takes a lot of time and research to select a range of selections (#1 choices, 2nd tier choices, and emergency backup if everything else busts). I highly recommend visiting the schools well prior to the application submission time frame. If you and he are doing some research when he is a sophomore, then plan on doing some school visits 2nd semester of the Junior year and maybe over that summer. That way in the fall and winter of the Senior year you have a firmer basis for the actual application process.

We were lucky a few of the schools our daugher wanted to attend she had already visited as part of band trips, band camps, and summer camps.

I know if he gets in that is a whole other ball game since I would have to pay
twission each semester , I may have to pay for him to get a physical or medical ok , and I would have to probably pay for his courses/books each semester. (probably going to look into financial aid to)

But would their be anything else I would have to pay for normally?

In your case was it just application fee , twission per semester , physical /medical ok , and her courses/books ? Or was their other things I am missing if I want to fully support all his college fees? (except rent or food )

I'm not sure why you say "except rent or food", the kids have to have a place to live and have to eat so considering room and board is an important part of planning for overall expenses when attending college. If you are not aware, many (dare I say most) schools require students to live on campus for at least the freshman year and quite a few through the sophomore year. My wife works at a local university and they are building more dorms and rumor has it that when they are complete they are going to require on campus housing up through juniors.

So you have tuition, room, board, and books there may be other fees that can add up. For each school your son is interested in Google "University Name" + "Cost of Attendance". Some schools may have a general technology fee, my son (who is in the IT field) has had technology fees associated with specific classes. Typically they are small in the $20-$40 range. His school charges a $70 Student Health fee (which must be paid whether he has health insurance or not, it supports the campus clinic) and a $10 General Services fee. Those fees are per semester so it's $140 and $20 per year.

Don't forget to plan for travel requirements which of course are going to vary widely depending on the location of the university. We're pretty lucky. Our daughter's school is only about a 3 1/2 hour drive away. Be aware that most schools require students to move out of the dorms over breaks (summer, fall, Thanksgiving, Christmas, spring). Travel or living arrangements don't just mean go to school in August and come home in May. If the school is in driving distance, it's not so bad. If the school is flying distance the annual cost can be crippling. My daughter has a friend on school whose family is in the Phillipines, during breaks they have rented a weeks lodging in the local EconoLodge for the shorter breaks.

Then there are there are the - what I call - "Student Living Essentials", and the total for these can add up so don't be surprised. Remember the dorm room is going to be basically empty except for a bed, basic empty desk, and chair:

• Computer (laptop recommended)
• Surge protector
• Extension cords
• Printer (recommend a laser printer - higher initial investment but lower cost of ownership because inkjets cost much more per page)
• Spare ink or toner cartridges
• Reams of printer paper
• CD's/Flash Drive - for storage and sharing files
• Desk supplies (Tap, stapler, paperclips)
• Notebooks
• Pens/Pencils/Highlighters
• Good Dictionary/Thesaurus
• Project/cork/dry erase board (pinup for calanders, projects, etc.)
• Desk/Bed Lamp
• Alarm Clock (Use cell phone or watch as a backup)
• Trash bin
• Under bed storage bins
• Small Refrigerator
• Sheets and Pillow cases (2 sets, one on the bed one in the wash)
• Small home tool kit (for those times you really need a hammer, screwdriver, etc.)
• Blanket(s)
• Clothes Hangers
• Laundry Basket
• First Aid Kit
• 3-month supply of toiletries (assuming you will restock on breaks)
• Backpack
• Cleaning supplies
• Paper towels

Those are a few things off the top my my head. So again the travel comes into play. If the college is in driving distance, much of this stuff can be purchased in advance and the costs spread out. On the other hand if the school is flying distance, then you are talking clothes and computer (you can only take so much on an airplane), so a lot of stuff would then be bought one arriving at campus.



>>>>

 

[sam111]

Well he is in preschool/kindergarten.

currently I am just wondering for what the cost of an average year of college
For the top grade colleges/universities like Princeton
For the middle grade colleges/universities
And For the poor grade colleges/universities

Also curious on if I don't up to home school him. How much does high-school cost typically for year. Or in total an approximation on how much it would cost to put him thru middle school , or high school.

In your case was it just application fee , twission per semester , physical /medical ok , and her courses/books ? Or was their other things I am missing if I want to fully support all his college fees? (except rent or food )

What I meant by this is I just wanted to get a rough estimate of the expenses leaving out rent/board , food and school/living supplies... of course I would help pay these as well.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Well he is in preschool/kindergarten.

That's actually great news. Why? Because it means you have time to plan.

I was in the Navy for 20-years and in the mid-90’s we returned to the States after being stationed overseas for a number of years. Our kids were 4 and 5 respectively. After we returned to the states my wife and I did some preplanning for the kids. We took a few thousand dollars and invested in a pre-paid college tuition program which provided certain tax advantages. We could afford to make payments for 2-years at a University for each of them, we started with some seed money from US Savings Bonds and then proceeded to make payments for the next 13-years. But after that each of them had a start.

At the appropriate time we sat down with them and discussed finances and college and laid out the reality of the situation. Our son took his and decided to attend a good local University, our daughter decided she wanted to go off to school. Our son decided to use his account to attend a local community college with an agreement to then move to the university as a Junior. The cost savings due to going to a community college extended the amount of time that his account would pay for. He stretched the 2-year university program out to 2-years at a community college and 1-year at a university. Our daughter used her’s for the first year, but then earned a full ride ROTC scholarship based on academic excellence in a science/technical program.

(BTW – Both our kids work part time and help defray some of their own expenses. That was one of the things we made very clear when we had the financial discussion. College would not be a free ride, and even though our daughter has a full ride scholarship she still works to help pay her rent and living expenses.)

Most states have a one or both of the two main types of college savings programs: pre-paid and college savings. Under a pre-paid program you purchase a set number of semesters at a state public school at todays tuition rate and then are guaranteed that number of semesters in the future no matter what tuition costs. In the College Savings Program money is set aside on a tax differed basis for use in paying for education later.

By starting young, you can save smaller amounts which add up over time due to the power of compound interest.

Here is a link to the Virginia programs, your states may be different -->> Virginia 529 - Virginia College Savings Plan | Affordable, Flexible Tax-Advantaged College Savings

currently I am just wondering for what the cost of an average year of college
For the top grade colleges/universities like Princeton
For the middle grade colleges/universities
And For the poor grade colleges/universities

The below costs are from the schools and include room and board.

Top Tier:
Princeton $52,165 per year (Princeton University | Fees & Payment Options)
MIT about $40,000 per year (MIT Facts 2012: Tuition and Financial Aid)
Cornell $40,985 (In State)/$57,125 (Out of State) (http://www.finaid.cornell.edu/cost-attend)

2nd Tier (Good State Schools)
University of Virginia $24,344 (In State)/$50,000 (Out of state) U.Va. Financial Aid - Estimated Cost of Attendance
Which is pretty standard for Virginia Public Universities

Our Son attends a local State University and lives at home, this saves a boat-load of cash in terms of making college affordable. His costs are about $9,000 per year which includes tuition, books, and fees; but since he lives at home there are no costs for rent (but ya we still feed him.)

Also curious on if I don't up to home school him. How much does high-school cost typically for year. Or in total an approximation on how much it would cost to put him thru middle school , or high school.

Can’t really say. Theoretically public schools are free, but there are usually some fees that nicle and dime you even for public schools. A couple of hundred per year (not including supplies)?

I have no idea how much it costs to homeschool. Depends a lot on how you go about it.

Private schools can be expensive if you are considering that. The downside is that the expense that goes into private schools means that money is not available to invest in a college savings. The good side can be a quality primary and secondary education, the downside is it can them make college even harder to pay for (all depending on how much your earn of course).


**************************

What sucks (paron my French) is the whole financial aid structure. If your family is poor, there is a boat load of financial aid. If you are rich you don’t need it. But if you are a working family you probably make to much for much “free” money and if you actually do save for college then that counts against you for aid purposes.

The whole financial aid process and another one of those things that will take some research so you can develop a long term financial plan so that you can shift from preparing for college to financing for college with ease.

The worst thing to do is blow it off until your son is in high school or (gasp) getting ready to apply for college. That’s when it can really crush you.

Pretty much plan on if your family income is middle-class that “financial aid” will consist of loans to be paid back. We’ve been very blessed. With our son’s decision on stretching school and living at home and our daughters scholarship (but having living expenses away from home) and both working part time – our Son will graduate debt free and our daughter will graduate with under $10,000 of loans. Which is really great considering that some of these kids are graduating with $40,000, $60,000, $80,000 of debt.


>>>>

 

[sam111]

Thanks I can see some of the top schools ranges for a 4 year whole degree would be $150 - $200 k ouch .
Even the middle level is around $60 - $120 k ranch that is still a few cars or a small home I could buy with that extra money darn (but my kids education is more important)

I know public schools are fairly cheap and I was think of doing private or catholic schools.
Curious if you know anything about how much per year those would cost some sort of range. And would their be any special test to take to get in their ... from what I know public schools must except you (hence the reason probably why their called public)

But private is a different story I would imagine?

Would like a rough estimate of middle school between highschool and pre-school levels.

Since in a few more years he will have to start middle school grade level 1 some where. Just looking for an average yearly price on what you spent on middle school. (would it be equivalent to a public high school I doubt it )

Curious also about catholic/private middle schools and how much they would cost over regular middle schools ? (middle grade , high grade , poor grade ones like we did for the college/university levels )

 

[editec]

ok, I was also curious if I wanted to home school my child.
Would all he have to do to get him into a great college is score high on the SAT test. And do well on a GED test?

Is the sat , and ged the only test need to pass/graduate high school from home.

In theory I am going to prepare him better then most of the local schools could around here. Just was concerned of the process involved in getting him into collage ... since he will technically have no highschool transcripts or any school transcripts for that matter.

Only the grades on the tests he needs to take to show the college or is their more stuff we have to do.

You're going to send him to collage, are you? (sorry couldn't resist...typos are no big deal here)

Contact your STATE department of education and they can fill you in on their laws regarding home schooling.

YOUR STATE has dominion over home schooler issues, NOT the Federal Department of Education, FYI.

 

[sam111]

I may homeschool him not sure yet.

Need more info on the catholic middle schools / highschools ... amounts/quality over public.
And weather their is any specific test to get into the private type schools.