Eastern European views of Russian invasion of Ukraine, Elections in October in Poland & Slovakia

[Tom Paine 1949]

Next month’s elections in both Poland and Slovakia, like the November 2024 elections in the U.S., will have important repercussions for the fate of Ukraine, facing a faltering Russian invasion that however still occupies some 20% of that nation.

Putin still blockades Ukraine’s Black Sea exports of grain. Putin also claims that four provinces of that country (besides Crimea) are now integral and “eternal” parts of Russia — even though Russian troops have been driven out of and do not occupy big sections of some of those provinces.

Democracies, even very imperfect ones, because they as a rule allow different voices and interest groups in society to express themselves and organize, and regularly allow different political parties to be elected, are sometimes at a disadvantage when confronting authoritarian or totalitarian dictatorships — especially in time of war.

We saw that in the run-up to WWII, and we see that now in Western countries and even in Central & Eastern Europe where economic sacrifices are heavy and Russian threats are greatest.

In Eastern Europe is, conservative governments like Poland’s led support inside NATO for Ukraine — contributing weapons and accepting millions of Ukrainian refugees, while long opposing reliance on Russian energy. But others rightwing governments like Hungary, rightwing populist agrarian interests in Slovakia, and smaller extremist forces even in Poland support Putin’s invasion — or simply oppose making sacrifices required to help Ukraine. This has created a rather complicated situation heading into these October elections.

All this has been widely commented on in the media, but most Americans ignore these developments in Eastern Europe, or only use a few headlines out of context to defend their existing views. Here are a couple of decent MSM articles that go into recent developments in Poland & Slovakia (and Romania & other Eastern European NATO member states) heavily affected by the Ukraine War.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/30/europe/slovakia-parliament-election-intl/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/europe/poland-ukraine-weapons-grain-explainer-intl/index.html

Anybody here from Eastern Europe with informed and intelligible views?

 

[Donald H]

Next month’s elections in both Poland and Slovakia, like the November 2024 elections in the U.S., will have important repercussions for the fate of Ukraine, facing a faltering Russian invasion that however still occupies some 20% of that nation.

Putin still blockades Ukraine’s Black Sea exports of grain. Putin also claims that four provinces of that country (besides Crimea) are now integral and “eternal” parts of Russia — even though Russian troops have been driven out of and do not occupy big sections of some of those provinces.

Democracies, even very imperfect ones, because they as a rule allow different voices and interest groups in society to express themselves and organize, and regularly allow different political parties to be elected, are sometimes at a disadvantage when confronting authoritarian or totalitarian dictatorships — especially in time of war.

We saw that in the run-up to WWII, and we see that now in Western countries and even in Central & Eastern Europe where economic sacrifices are heavy and Russian threats are greatest.

In Eastern Europe is, conservative governments like Poland’s led support inside NATO for Ukraine — contributing weapons and accepting millions of Ukrainian refugees, while long opposing reliance on Russian energy. But others rightwing governments like Hungary, rightwing populist agrarian interests in Slovakia, and smaller extremist forces even in Poland support Putin’s invasion — or simply oppose making sacrifices required to help Ukraine. This has created a rather complicated situation heading into these October elections.

All this has been widely commented on in the media, but most Americans ignore these developments in Eastern Europe, or only use a few headlines out of context to defend their existing views. Here are a couple of decent MSM articles that go into recent developments in Poland & Slovakia (and Romania & other Eastern European NATO member states) heavily affected by the Ukraine War.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/30/europe/slovakia-parliament-election-intl/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/europe/poland-ukraine-weapons-grain-explainer-intl/index.html

Anybody here from Eastern Europe with informed and intelligible views?

It just seems that funding the war is the important consideration over all that Tom.

The Ukraine no longer has the manpower to fight America's proxy war. Shouldn't we all be considering the fallout if America needs to fight it's own war against Russia.

We're already hearing reports of Nato personnell manning tanks in the Ukraine!

Is Russia fighting a losing cause, with all the odds stacked against them?

 

[Donald H]

Anybody here from Eastern Europe with informed and intelligible views?

There are no reliable sources or dependable information. to gain that way. That's like asking Litwin and Putin themselves. You have to find out the hard way by reading various competing sources.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

There are no reliable sources or dependable information. to gain that way. That's like asking Litwin and Putin themselves. You have to find out the hard way by reading various competing sources.

Here I agree with you. There are much better places than USMB to get sober and honest views on the Eastern European situation & the Russian invasion of Ukraine!

 

[Donald H]

Here I agree with you. There are much better places than USMB to get sober and honest views on the Eastern European situation & the Russian invasion of Ukraine!

No, not really Tom. I've seen excellent links posted by both sides here. You have too!

 

[luiza]

Next month’s elections in both Poland and Slovakia, like the November 2024 elections in the U.S., will have important repercussions for the fate of Ukraine, facing a faltering Russian invasion that however still occupies some 20% of that nation.

Putin still blockades Ukraine’s Black Sea exports of grain. Putin also claims that four provinces of that country (besides Crimea) are now integral and “eternal” parts of Russia — even though Russian troops have been driven out of and do not occupy big sections of some of those provinces.

Democracies, even very imperfect ones, because they as a rule allow different voices and interest groups in society to express themselves and organize, and regularly allow different political parties to be elected, are sometimes at a disadvantage when confronting authoritarian or totalitarian dictatorships — especially in time of war.

We saw that in the run-up to WWII, and we see that now in Western countries and even in Central & Eastern Europe where economic sacrifices are heavy and Russian threats are greatest.

In Eastern Europe is, conservative governments like Poland’s led support inside NATO for Ukraine — contributing weapons and accepting millions of Ukrainian refugees, while long opposing reliance on Russian energy. But others rightwing governments like Hungary, rightwing populist agrarian interests in Slovakia, and smaller extremist forces even in Poland support Putin’s invasion — or simply oppose making sacrifices required to help Ukraine. This has created a rather complicated situation heading into these October elections.

All this has been widely commented on in the media, but most Americans ignore these developments in Eastern Europe, or only use a few headlines out of context to defend their existing views. Here are a couple of decent MSM articles that go into recent developments in Poland & Slovakia (and Romania & other Eastern European NATO member states) heavily affected by the Ukraine War.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/30/europe/slovakia-parliament-election-intl/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/europe/poland-ukraine-weapons-grain-explainer-intl/index.html

Anybody here from Eastern Europe with informed and intelligible views?

There is no such thing as decent MSM reports.

Any force which retains a 10 to 1 kill ratio is guaranteed to overwhelm their enemy . . Which is why around 11000 UAF Nazis surrendered these last few days .

So the Russian conflict effort is not faltering . Rather it has overwhelmed Kyiv and Washington .


Suggest you find sources which are more accurate and reliable than those you have used
Try Simplicius the Thinker . Many other brands available .

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Donald H:
No, not really Tom. I've seen excellent links posted by both sides here. You have too!

Well, ok, there may be some. I was thinking mostly of really informed and detailed comments from people who know the languages and culture and political history — like Eastern Europeans or Russians who are not crazies.

I don’t speak Russian or any Eastern European language and it is difficult to get objective information. Sometimes I have to resort to reading essays by professors or even Atlantic Council “Think Tanks,” or stuff from extremist partisans who barely speak English just to find sources worth reading. The popular MSM articles I linked to I thought were pretty neutral, which is why I included them.

 

[Lemmi]

Putin held democratic elections approving of himself in his recently militarily occupied territories of Ukraine. Did you guys miss that, it was on the total up and up.

 

[luiza]

Well, Ok, there may be some. I was thinking mostly of really informed and detailed comments from people who know the languages and culture and political history — like Eastern Europeans or Russians who are not crazies.

I don’t speak Russian or any Eastern European language and it is difficult to get objective information. Sometimes I have to resort to reading essays by professors or even Atlantic Council “Think Tanks,” or stuff from extremist partisans who barely speak English just to get find sources worth reading. The popular MSM articles I linked to I thought were pretty neutral, which is why I included them.

Suggest that the Atlantic Counsel is just a front line Deep State asset . Or CIA depending how deep you want to mine !!

 

[jwoodie]

like Eastern Europeans or Russians who are not crazies.

In other words, they don't agree with you?

 

[Donald H]

There is no such thing as decent MSM reports.

Any force which retains a 10 to 1 kill ratio is guaranteed to overwhelm their enemy . . Which is why around 11000 UAF Nazis surrendered these last few days .

So the Russian conflict effort is not faltering . Rather it has overwhelmed Kyiv and Washington .


Suggest you find sources which are more accurate and reliable than those you have used
Try Simplicius the Thinker . Many other brands available .

Yeah??
Then you're not considering the downside for America if it can't beat Russia and reduce it to minor military status.

AT least one lesson we've learned is that Russia is a worthy opponent against US power.

America might win the war but nobody has a fkn clue how?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yeah??
Then you're not considering the downside for America if it can't beat Russia and reduce it to minor military status.

AT least one lesson we've learned is that Russia is a worthy opponent against US power.

America might win the war but nobody has a fkn clue how?

America is not fighting the war, Ukraine is, and there is no mystery about how Ukraine will defeat Russia. It will simply wear the Russians down. Ukraine has about 12 million people of military age and every year nearly 500,000 more become of military age, so there will be no shortage of Ukrainian soldiers. The Ukrainian fighters are already better equipped than Russian soldiers and almost daily that gap increases. Ukraine clearly has a well thought out strategy for victory, but Russia only has a strategy of trying to delay that victory in the hope that Ukraine's allies will abandon them.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Next month’s elections in both Poland and Slovakia, like the November 2024 elections in the U.S., will have important repercussions for the fate of Ukraine, facing a faltering Russian invasion that however still occupies some 20% of that nation.

Putin still blockades Ukraine’s Black Sea exports of grain. Putin also claims that four provinces of that country (besides Crimea) are now integral and “eternal” parts of Russia — even though Russian troops have been driven out of and do not occupy big sections of some of those provinces.

Democracies, even very imperfect ones, because they as a rule allow different voices and interest groups in society to express themselves and organize, and regularly allow different political parties to be elected, are sometimes at a disadvantage when confronting authoritarian or totalitarian dictatorships — especially in time of war.

We saw that in the run-up to WWII, and we see that now in Western countries and even in Central & Eastern Europe where economic sacrifices are heavy and Russian threats are greatest.

In Eastern Europe is, conservative governments like Poland’s led support inside NATO for Ukraine — contributing weapons and accepting millions of Ukrainian refugees, while long opposing reliance on Russian energy. But others rightwing governments like Hungary, rightwing populist agrarian interests in Slovakia, and smaller extremist forces even in Poland support Putin’s invasion — or simply oppose making sacrifices required to help Ukraine. This has created a rather complicated situation heading into these October elections.

All this has been widely commented on in the media, but most Americans ignore these developments in Eastern Europe, or only use a few headlines out of context to defend their existing views. Here are a couple of decent MSM articles that go into recent developments in Poland & Slovakia (and Romania & other Eastern European NATO member states) heavily affected by the Ukraine War.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/30/europe/slovakia-parliament-election-intl/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/europe/poland-ukraine-weapons-grain-explainer-intl/index.html

Anybody here from Eastern Europe with informed and intelligible views?

Man, even trying to read your posts makes me wanna retch or blow your stuffed with platitudes about the so called freedom and democracy head in order to shut you down forever. Ough!

 

[Deadstick]

America is not fighting the war, Ukraine is, and there is no mystery about how Ukraine will defeat Russia. It will simply wear the Russians down. Ukraine has about 12 million people of military age and every year nearly 500,000 more become of military age, so there will be no shortage of Ukrainian soldiers. The Ukrainian fighters are already better equipped than Russian soldiers and almost daily that gap increases. Ukraine clearly has a well thought out strategy for victory, but Russia only has a strategy of trying to delay that victory in the hope that Ukraine's allies will abandon them.

Ukraine is not running the show, America is with their Nato goons, this is a Nato war against Russia, so far it's the Ukrainians who are dying for Nato, you just don't get it, Russia will not lose it can't afford to or Russia is finished, the Americans and Nato can just walk away like they have many times before.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Man, even trying to read your posts makes me wanna retch or blow your stuffed with platitudes about the so called freedom and democracy head in order to shut you down forever. Ough!

Well, go right ahead and retch. But please don’t do it on anybody else’s shoes …

I note you do not or just cannot discuss any of the issues here on any level besides that of insults or threats. Too bad. As a Russian speaker you might actually have something to contribute … if you weren’t so crazy.

All I can do is repeat what I said to you once before:

AleksanderPK: All you have is … death & destruction for Ukrainians and national suicide for Russians. Russia’s population and place in the world is already in steep decline. No bloody “victory” over Ukraine in their country will help you rebuild your beloved Russia, its economy or “greatness.”

The tragic war that Putin launched in Feb. 2022 may turn Russia into a chaotic battleground of warlords and siloviki factions or even lead to the disintegration of the Russian Federation. It may complete the conversion of Russian society into a totalitarian fascist state. It will not … “Make Russia Great Again.”

 

[AlexanderPK]

Tom Paine 1949
All America ever wanted was disintegration of Russia by seeding hatred between its people on a nationalistic basis and getting a hold over its natural resources all the while masking this by the freedom and democracy bullshit. Ukraine is the example of where that tactics proved to be successful in a way except that Russia had gotten tired of it and showed its teeth at last. Now you can say goodbye to the resources and by extension to Ukraine. As simple as that.

 

[Litwin]

Next month’s elections in both Poland and Slovakia, like the November 2024 elections in the U.S., will have important repercussions for the fate of Ukraine, facing a faltering Russian invasion that however still occupies some 20% of that nation.

Putin still blockades Ukraine’s Black Sea exports of grain. Putin also claims that four provinces of that country (besides Crimea) are now integral and “eternal” parts of Russia — even though Russian troops have been driven out of and do not occupy big sections of some of those provinces.

Democracies, even very imperfect ones, because they as a rule allow different voices and interest groups in society to express themselves and organize, and regularly allow different political parties to be elected, are sometimes at a disadvantage when confronting authoritarian or totalitarian dictatorships — especially in time of war.

We saw that in the run-up to WWII, and we see that now in Western countries and even in Central & Eastern Europe where economic sacrifices are heavy and Russian threats are greatest.

In Eastern Europe is, conservative governments like Poland’s led support inside NATO for Ukraine — contributing weapons and accepting millions of Ukrainian refugees, while long opposing reliance on Russian energy. But others rightwing governments like Hungary, rightwing populist agrarian interests in Slovakia, and smaller extremist forces even in Poland support Putin’s invasion — or simply oppose making sacrifices required to help Ukraine. This has created a rather complicated situation heading into these October elections.

All this has been widely commented on in the media, but most Americans ignore these developments in Eastern Europe, or only use a few headlines out of context to defend their existing views. Here are a couple of decent MSM articles that go into recent developments in Poland & Slovakia (and Romania & other Eastern European NATO member states) heavily affected by the Ukraine War.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/30/europe/slovakia-parliament-election-intl/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/europe/poland-ukraine-weapons-grain-explainer-intl/index.html

Anybody here from Eastern Europe with informed and intelligible views?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Litwin , I think all your map “redrawing” of Russia and all your videos fantasizing about possible new national or cultural borders is sheer crackpotism, quite counterproductive in the present situation.

Russia has fallen onto hard times before, and like most great modern nation states it has lost wars and suffered revolutionary turmoil without disappearing permanently or breaking up into dozens of parts. The deep problems with Russian political culture have objective and material roots. They are very different than those in the West. Russians still need to reassess their own fundamental myths about their own history, just as Japan and Germany had to. This has always been a painful process for all old imperialist and colonial nations.

The U.S. has its own somewhat unique political problems & illusions — and also needs to recognize and deal honestly & intelligently with them.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Tom Paine 1949
All America ever wanted was disintegration of Russia by seeding hatred between its people on a nationalistic basis and getting a hold over its natural resources all the while masking this by the freedom and democracy bullshit. Ukraine is the example of where that tactics proved to be successful in a way except that Russia had gotten tired of it and showed its teeth at last. Now you can say goodbye to the resources and by extension to Ukraine. As simple as that.

That is the great myth and problem of imperial Russian culture: Nothing is ever Russia’s fault. Russia was always innocent, always helping all the more “backward” people. But despite its sacrifices and great “soul,” the West or the Mongols or the Turks and now even the Ukrainians have always attacked Mother Russia and disrespected its Czars. All who disagree are bought-off puppets of evil foreigners … or “Nazis.”

 

[Litwin]